Esmond Million's Bung Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 Over the past couple of weeks it would appear that the spectre of racism has been in the headlines once more, but rather than from fans this time amongst players. Evra is a bit of a serial accuser when it comes to racial slurs against him. Fabregas and Kanoute appear to have reached an accord over their spat. The John Terry/Anton Ferdinand incident seems to be a little different. The complaints seem to be coming from fans and it would appear that the old bill are now investigating. Terry has of course denied any racial slur and says that he has spoken to Ferdinand and all is ok, but Ferdinand has been strangely very quiet about the incident, although he is due to speak to his club today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Tansley Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 Difficult to trust a single thing said by Evra, the guy is a disgrace. But the Terry thing seems to be gathering pace, Is there footage of the alleged incident? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redcliffe 78 Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 Difficult to trust a single thing said by Evra, the guy is a disgrace. But the Terry thing seems to be gathering pace, Is there footage of the alleged incident? Skysports were showing the incident yesterday but blocking out his lip movement, any lip reading will know exactly what he said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted October 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 Difficult to trust a single thing said by Evra, the guy is a disgrace. But the Terry thing seems to be gathering pace, Is there footage of the alleged incident? Yes there is some although the good old perm has claimed copyright over some of them. There seem to have been 3 versions of events and 2 seem to have come from Terry. The initial claim from the public is Terry called him a 'black ****', Terry has said firstly said I called him a 'blind ****' and then he saying 'are you accusing me of calling you a black ****'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC RISK77 Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 Yes there is some although the good old perm has claimed copyright over some of them. There seem to have been 3 versions of events and 2 seem to have come from Terry. The initial claim from the public is Terry called him a 'black ****', Terry has said firstly said I called him a 'blind ****' and then he saying 'are you accusing me of calling you a black ****'. when i watched this on you tube it definately looks like he said the bold statement above Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boadle Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 Difficult to trust a single thing said by Evra, the guy is a disgrace. But the Terry thing seems to be gathering pace, Is there footage of the alleged incident? There was on Sunday, but it was quickly removed. It featured a close-up side view of JT mouthing something at someone off camera. According to commenters he could be seen to be saying 'Anton, you black b******d. ****ing nob-head', although it could equally have been 'blind' (as others have claimed) or even something else altogether. JT has apparently claimed there was a 'mix-up'. The problem with lip-reading for laypeople, is that if you approach it looking for a particular phrase or word, you can often see that in the lips. It's hard to be neutral (which is related to the 'McGurk Effect'). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedZepperin Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 There was on Sunday, but it was quickly removed. This is available: http://www.guardian....and-chelsea-qpr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bar BS3 Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 The John Terry/Anton Ferdinand incident seems to be a little different. The complaints seem to be coming from fans and it would appear that the old bill are now investigating. Terry has of course denied any racial slur and says that he has spoken to Ferdinand and all is ok, but Ferdinand has been strangely very quiet about the incident, although he is due to speak to his club today. So, Anton Ferdinand has made no complaint. Why do (other) people have to create this type of issue every so often, on other peoples behalf?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redcliffe 78 Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 So, Anton Ferdinand has made no complaint. Why do (other) people have to create this type of issue every so often, on other peoples behalf?! The pic below certainly doesn't look as though JT has an issue with Black people! Agree this will be blown out of all proportion know why do these people do it, one comes to mind the Ross/Brand people went on BBC IPLAYER to listen to it so they could complain about it people will do exactly the same now and with him being England captain they will be hyper ventilating about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted October 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 So, Anton Ferdinand has made no complaint. Why do (other) people have to create this type of issue every so often, on other peoples behalf?! I am not commenting on whether Ferdinand has made a complaint, my comment is the more important issue that he has not publicly denied that the incident has occurred and bearing in mind he has had 2 days in which to do that, he silence has fueled the incident and made matters appear worse for Terry. in fact a quick denial by Ferdinand would have put this to bed sunday night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murraysrightplum Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 But he made a complaint initially surely? Unless someone else heard it, or thought they did... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notsobigfatdave Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 Terry is a no more than an Amoeba...and Evra has one big chip on his shoulder... Storm in a tea cup.... Always reminds me of the Savage/Dublin spat of a few years ago when the PFA enquired into a possible case of racial abuse and interviewed the two players.. Committe comment directed at Savage......." was there at any time any Racial abuse made." Savage... " Yes he called me a Welsh ****"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bar BS3 Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 I am not commenting on whether Ferdinand has made a complaint, my comment is the more important issue that he has not publicly denied that the incident has occurred and bearing in mind he has had 2 days in which to do that, he silence has fueled the incident and made matters appear worse for Terry. in fact a quick denial by Ferdinand would have put this to bed sunday night. True and obviously if it was said, then it is wrong. My point though is why do 3rd parties take it upon themselves to create these issues when it is effectively none of their business? If Ferdinand had come out and accused him, then fair enough, an investigation would be needed, but the fact he has said nothing means there is no real issue. JT plays with many Black team mates week in, week out. I'm sure if he was a racist then he would have issue doing so. Even if he is proved top have said what is accused, nobody knows the relationship/banter between JT and AF. Obviously live on TV in front of millions of viewers is not a chioce moment to say such things, but a throw away comment amongst friends does not make the guy a racist. It is the same old argument, that really does get my back up. If AF was offended by what JT said to him, then lets have an investigation. If he was not, whatever was said, lets just leave it alone and get someone to have a word with them both about there being a time and a place for certain types of exchange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redcliffe 78 Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 Terry is a no more than an Amoeba...and Evra has one big chip on his shoulder... Storm in a tea cup.... Always reminds me of the Savage/Dublin spat of a few years ago when the PFA enquired into a possible case of racial abuse and interviewed the two players.. Committe comment directed at Savage......." was there at any time any Racial abuse made." Savage... " Yes he called me a Welsh ****"... If that was classed as racism there would be a story every week, Dublin certainly know what he is talking about though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted October 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 True and obviously if it was said, then it is wrong. My point though is why do 3rd parties take it upon themselves to create these issues when it is effectively none of their business? If Ferdinand had come out and accused him, then fair enough, an investigation would be needed, but the fact he has said nothing means there is no real issue. JT plays with many Black team mates week in, week out. I'm sure if he was a racist then he would have issue doing so. Even if he is proved top have said what is accused, nobody knows the relationship/banter between JT and AF. Obviously live on TV in front of millions of viewers is not a chioce moment to say such things, but a throw away comment amongst friends does not make the guy a racist. It is the same old argument, that really does get my back up. If AF was offended by what JT said to him, then lets have an investigation. If he was not, whatever was said, lets just leave it alone and get someone to have a word with them both about there being a time and a place for certain types of exchange. You've sort of answered it really. AF must know the sort of damage the speculation of this must be doing to Terry especially as England captain and yet he has not publicly denied it after 2 days, i'm sure AF has his reasons but whatever those reasons are they are not helping Terry if it's a nothing incident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Casual Connoisseur Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 He seemed to mouth the words black c. T I watched the clip on you tube in slow mo, it seemed quite clear? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bar BS3 Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 If that was classed as racism there would be a story every week, Dublin certainly know what he is talking about though. So you don't regard calling someone a "welsh c***" as being racist? Of course it is - in exactly the way as calling someone a P**i. The fact that it is not treated, in many circles, as being as bad, is where the whole racism things looses credability and people contradict themselves. There is a fine line between banter and verbal abuse - usually only known between the people involved. So, if the involved parties see no need to take issue and make a complaint then everyone should mind their own business imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cityboy Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 At great risk of sounding racist myself, why is it considered offensive to call someone 'black'? I note there seem to be no complaints about Ferdinand being called a ****, which on the face of it, should be the far more offensive word used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bar BS3 Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 You've sort of answered it really. AF must know the sort of damage the speculation of this must be doing to Terry especially as England captain and yet he has not publicly denied it after 2 days, i'm sure AF has his reasons but whatever those reasons are they are not helping Terry if it's a nothing incident. Yes, I totally get your point. Mine is that there has not any complaint made by him either. If it was not worthy of a complaint by the alleged "victim" then why has it even become an issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redcliffe 78 Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 So you don't regard calling someone a "welsh c***" as being racist? Of course it is - in exactly the way as calling someone a P**i. The fact that it is not treated, in many circles, as being as bad, is where the whole racism things looses credability and people contradict themselves. There is a fine line between banter and verbal abuse - usually only known between the people involved. So, if the involved parties see no need to take issue and make a complaint then everyone should mind their own business imo. It is racist the point i'm making this happens every week on the pitch between players from different countries but it is not classed as bad as calling somebody what Terry has been accused off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Tansley Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 watched the video of it and tbh it's ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bar BS3 Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 At great risk of sounding racist myself, why is it considered offensive to call someone 'black'? I note there seem to be no complaints about Ferdinand being called a ****, which on the face of it, should be the far more offensive word used. Quite rightly, it is ot socially acceptable to call someone by the alledged comments. The problem is magnified by the PC brigade, on other peoples behalf. Would there be a huge issue if someone had called Tevez, Dowie or Beardsley an "ugly c***"? Or if Matt Le Tissier have been abused by the term "big nosed w***er"? No - and that is just as wrong, yet for some reason that is classed as banter because the PC brigade dont get on their high horse about those examples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bar BS3 Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 It is racist the point i'm making this happens every week on the pitch between players from different countries but it is not classed as bad as calling somebody what Terry has been accused off. Really?! You seriously think that on the pitch in premier league games or in society in general, people walk around just reffering to each other as " you (insert nationality) c***"? Gladly, this is not everyday vocabulary. On the occasion that it brings somebodies colour into the equation, then for some reason it magnifies the severity of the remark. In fact, if any "foreigner" walked into a police station and made a complain for being called a " Polish/Chinese/Somalian etc C***" then it would probably lead to a criminal conviction. If you walked into a police station and made a complaint about being called an "English/Welsh C***" then they would not take you seriously for a moment. The world has gone ass about tit when it comes to the whole PC issue and I think it makes things 10 times worse than it would otherwise be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WellRedPhil Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 He seemed to mouth the words black c. T I watched the clip on you tube in slow mo, it seemed quite clear? He definitely says that, it's just whether or not it's in the context he's claiming it is. Hopefully it is, otherwise it's a disgrace. Quite how they'll find out though is another issue entirely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingswood Village Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 He seemed to mouth the words black c. T I watched the clip on you tube in slow mo, it seemed quite clear? Honestly, when I watched it - my first thoughts were he said oi, oi, you ****** blind ct...... Then he seemed to say something about black after that. Ps - I watched the slow mo on the Guardian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redcliffe 78 Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 Really?! You seriously think that on the pitch in premier league games or in society in general, people walk around just reffering to each other as " you (insert nationality) c***"? Gladly, this is not everyday vocabulary. On the occasion that it brings somebodies colour into the equation, then for some reason it magnifies the severity of the remark. In fact, if any "foreigner" walked into a police station and made a complain for being called a " Polish/Chinese/Somalian etc C***" then it would probably lead to a criminal conviction. If you walked into a police station and made a complaint about being called an "English/Welsh C***" then they would not take you seriously for a moment. The world has gone ass about tit when it comes to the whole PC issue and I think it makes things 1 It happens on the pitch up and down the country it's a football pitch highly charged things are said it the heat of the moment it happens, what happens on the pitch stays on the pitch shake hands after the games over and look forward too next time. this is a football forum i am not talking about general life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcusX Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 This is available: http://www.guardian....and-chelsea-qpr Definitely looks more like BLIND than BLACK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Brent Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 Agree with you Bar BS3. I actually find it quite embarassing that some people get so offended on behalf of someone else. You see it in other aspects as well such as disability. I'm not condoning what JT may have said but AF is probably wondering what all the fuss is about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 I'm amused by the idea that this is doing any damage to John Terry's reputation. Guilty of this or not he is a piece of human scum anyway - no reputation to damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 Apparently Evra has said that the ref heard Suarez, surely if the ref did he would of been sent off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.