Racism

[Redcliffe 78]

So to re-iterate my point, you're saying - by extension - that calling someone a p-ki, isn't racist, because Pakistan is a nation, not a racial group?

If you did, I think you'd (rightly) find yourself charged with racially aggravated disturbance of the peace.

Look up Caucasian.

[Fiale]

So to re-iterate my point, you're saying - by extension - that calling someone a p-ki, isn't racist, because Pakistan is a nation, not a racial group?

If you did, I think you'd (rightly) find yourself charged with racially aggravated disturbance of the peace.

It isn't really racists by definition, but you are right it is by law.

The sad thing is that these are merely words, people choose to be offended by them. Calling someone something (especially if they are that thing, Welsh, Paki, fat, Black, thick, Gay) should not mean you get your collar felt. People choose to go through life being offended by what they are, it is rather sad really.

[Drew Peacock]

If you learned to read, I said it was xenophobia, not racism which it is. By definition.

**** me!

Xenophobia is a fear of foreigners, calling someone a Welsh **** doesn't sound xenophobic to me.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

I'm amused by the idea that this is doing any damage to John Terry's reputation. Guilty of this or not he is a piece of human scum anyway - no reputation to damage.

Touché.

[Red-Robbo]

Look up Caucasian.

Someone from the Caucasus Mountains. Applied - as a term to incorrectly refer to all white people.

Maybe I should get all chippy when I hear it being used in that way....

[Mr Gow]

I think you should all stop fannying about this Racist malarky, its all a load of bol0x ,and a card that gets played over and over like a broken record

Get thee down to the next EDL march and have fun my friends

[cityloyal473]

looks like he says blind too me

[Redhyde]

It'll be interesting to see if JT gets banned for foul and abusive language like Wayne Rooney did.

[Brislingwood Red]

Terry must be disliked amongst the majority of his fellow premier league peers, especially due to the Wayne Bridge fiasco. Clearly at one point Ferdinand retaliated shouting something along the lines of 'shagging your mates mrs'... I'm guessing there's no love lost.

[Gakoe]

The way I see it (from Guardian link) he says "hey, hey, yeah, you ****** blind can't ****** nob ed" which makes no sense at all. ****** cockneys! Goodnight!

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

I think the artificial splitting of racist from xenophobic excuse doesn't really make much sense. If it did, you'd have to say that calling someone who came from Pakistan a "P**i barsteward" wasn't racist.

It's not artificial: race and nationality are two quite dfferent things. However, both can be offensive and, as you suggest in your example, they can sometimes come together. The most significance between racism and xenophobia is that racism is more likely to be on the basis of appearance. Someone's racial origins are likely to be more apparent from their appearance than their nationality, and therefore racism is more fundamentally offensive than xenophobia.

[Super]

It'll be interesting to see if JT gets banned for foul and abusive language like Wayne Rooney did.

Didn't see Terry stick his ugly mug right in front of a camera.

[glynriley]

Looking at that clip it appears to me he says blind. At the start of the clip it shows the referee , and then Terry starts to shout. Is it not possible tht he ref has just made a poor decision and Terry is saying "Blind C..." to the ref ??

[TinnionForEngland]

Looking at that clip it appears to me he says blind. At the start of the clip it shows the referee , and then Terry starts to shout. Is it not possible tht he ref has just made a poor decision and Terry is saying "Blind C..." to the ref ??

Obviously not or he would of said so, far worse to be accused of racism than to be accused of calling the referee that. He has said he was responding to being accused of saying 'black ****' by saying he didn't say 'black ****' obviously he is talking complete shite.

[chipdawg]

So to re-iterate my point, you're saying - by extension - that calling someone a p-ki, isn't racist, because Pakistan is a nation, not a racial group?

If you did, I think you'd (rightly) find yourself charged with racially aggravated disturbance of the peace.

The difference is that the term 'p**i' is more often than not used as an insult to someone from the Indian Subcontinent; i'd bet money that you couldn't determine someone from Pakistan from someone from Bangladesh from someone from Nepal from someone from India. Infact, thats a rhetorical question as the national boundaries of these countries (Nepal and Bhutan aside) are less than 60 years old and so there are ethnic groups in northern India who are genetically similar to those in southern Pakistan, southern Nepal, etc. Calling someone a 'P**i' s making a judgement against them based on a vague notion of the colour of their skin. To call someone a 'Welsh ****' you must already know what their nationality is, so by definition you are commenting on their nationality (and specifically a national stereotype) and so its xenophobia. At the end of the day though itcomes down to what people find acceptable. A Ghanian friend of mind often refers to himself as a 'n***er', but if a white person calls him that, he goes mental; its offensive to him because he knows what the inference is in the use of the word. The same goes for 'p**i'

At the end of the day i agree that the racism 'card' is overplayed, but you have to remember that this lack of tolerance of racism which has resulted in it being mostly booted out of British society; much more succesfully than any other European country i've visited. Lets not forget that you only have to g back 25 years to have seen John Barnes having bananas thrown at him by his own fans. If that means that sometimes a storm develops in a tea cup, then i think thats a price worth paying. I think we should also remember that if any of us were in a meeting with another company at work and we refered to one of our colleagues or another delegate as a '******* black ****', we'd be on the dole faster than you can say 'political correctness gone mad'; regardless of whether the person we aimed the comment at forgave us or not. The proffesional football field is different from the Downs because its a place of work

[Red-Robbo]

It's not artificial: race and nationality are two quite dfferent things. However, both can be offensive and, as you suggest in your example, they can sometimes come together. The most significance between racism and xenophobia is that racism is more likely to be on the basis of appearance. Someone's racial origins are likely to be more apparent from their appearance than their nationality, and therefore racism is more fundamentally offensive than xenophobia.

Hmmmm. I reckon Robbie Savage would be more offended at being called a "Welsh c-" than a "white c-".

My point is that whenever the world "black" is used, some people get all white liberal guilt and social worker about things.

Calling someone a c- is the offensive bit. The adjective attached to it - within reason - shouldn't matter.

[Red-Robbo]

The difference is that the term 'p**i' is more often than not used as an insult to someone from the Indian Subcontinent; i'd bet money that you couldn't determine someone from Pakistan from someone from Bangladesh from someone from Nepal from someone from India. Infact, thats a rhetorical question as the national boundaries of these countries (Nepal and Bhutan aside) are less than 60 years old and so there are ethnic groups in northern India who are genetically similar to those in southern Pakistan, southern Nepal, etc. Calling someone a 'P**i' s making a judgement against them based on a vague notion of the colour of their skin. To call someone a 'Welsh ****' you must already know what their nationality is, so by definition you are commenting on their nationality (and specifically a national stereotype) and so its xenophobia. At the end of the day though itcomes down to what people find acceptable. A Ghanian friend of mind often refers to himself as a 'n***er', but if a white person calls him that, he goes mental; its offensive to him because he knows what the inference is in the use of the word. The same goes for 'p**i'

At the end of the day i agree that the racism 'card' is overplayed, but you have to remember that this lack of tolerance of racism which has resulted in it being mostly booted out of British society; much more succesfully than any other European country i've visited. Lets not forget that you only have to g back 25 years to have seen John Barnes having bananas thrown at him by his own fans. If that means that sometimes a storm develops in a tea cup, then i think thats a price worth paying. I think we should also remember that if any of us were in a meeting with another company at work and we refered to one of our colleagues or another delegate as a '******* black ****', we'd be on the dole faster than you can say 'political correctness gone mad'; regardless of whether the person we aimed the comment at forgave us or not. The proffesional football field is different from the Downs because its a place of work

Fair points, but I think I'd be out of work if I called someone else a c- at work, regardless of their colour!

[Redcliffe 78]

The difference is that the term 'p**i' is more often than not used as an insult to someone from the Indian Subcontinent; i'd bet money that you couldn't determine someone from Pakistan from someone from Bangladesh from someone from Nepal from someone from India. Infact, thats a rhetorical question as the national boundaries of these countries (Nepal and Bhutan aside) are less than 60 years old and so there are ethnic groups in northern India who are genetically similar to those in southern Pakistan, southern Nepal, etc. Calling someone a 'P**i' s making a judgement against them based on a vague notion of the colour of their skin. To call someone a 'Welsh ****' you must already know what their nationality is, so by definition you are commenting on their nationality (and specifically a national stereotype) and so its xenophobia. At the end of the day though itcomes down to what people find acceptable. A Ghanian friend of mind often refers to himself as a 'n***er', but if a white person calls him that, he goes mental; its offensive to him because he knows what the inference is in the use of the word. The same goes for 'p**i'

At the end of the day i agree that the racism 'card' is overplayed, but you have to remember that this lack of tolerance of racism which has resulted in it being mostly booted out of British society; much more succesfully than any other European country i've visited. Lets not forget that you only have to g back 25 years to have seen John Barnes having bananas thrown at him by his own fans. If that means that sometimes a storm develops in a tea cup, then i think thats a price worth paying. I think we should also remember that if any of us were in a meeting with another company at work and we refered to one of our colleagues or another delegate as a '******* black ****', we'd be on the dole faster than you can say 'political correctness gone mad'; regardless of whether the person we aimed the comment at forgave us or not. The proffesional football field is different from the Downs because its a place of work

Agree with every word, concistentcy needs to be done though Terry will be hung out to dry know but when Evra accused Suraz of it there was a few columns in papers and a minor story on TV.

[chipdawg]

Fair points, but I think I'd be out of work if I called someone else a c- at work, regardless of their colour!

I work for a Council so i'd probably be given time off to think about what i'd done and then sent on an expensive course to rehabilitate me!

[chipdawg]

Agree with every word, concistentcy needs to be done though Terry will be hung out to dry know but when Evra accused Suraz of it there was a few columns in papers and a minor story on TV.

There is definitely a media agenda against John Terry (though part of that is he gives them so much ammo by being such a horrible human being), but part of that is because there is actual video evidence (debateable as it is) of his 'crime'. To be honest, i wouldn't give two hoots if Terry was banned for life; he's over-rated and a prime example of all that is wrong with the modern footballer, but i agree that there has to be a level of consistency with the Evra incident and past examples

[Esmond Million's Bung]

There is definitely a media agenda against John Terry (though part of that is he gives them so much ammo by being such a horrible human being), but part of that is because there is actual video evidence (debateable as it is) of his 'crime'. To be honest, i wouldn't give two hoots if Terry was banned for life; he's over-rated and a prime example of all that is wrong with the modern footballer, but i agree that there has to be a level of consistency with the Evra incident and past examples

and Evra had cried wolf I believe 3 times before, which makes it less of a story.

[Peter O Hanraha-hanrahan]

Fair points, but I think I'd be out of work if I called someone else a c- at work, regardless of their colour!

In my workplace (the railway) the word c*** is used as a term of endearment.

And w-nker.

[cheese]

In my workplace (the railway) the word c*** is used as a term of endearment.

And w-nker.

When I catch th train that's what I call the workers too!

[Peter O Hanraha-hanrahan]

When I catch th train that's what I call the workers too!

When in Rome, and all that...

[Redcliffe 78]

and Evra had cried wolf I believe 3 times before, which makes it less of a story.

I am no expert Esmond but i think an editor with the many camera's at football grounds now could look back and see if they can see what he is saying or maybe Suraz done it in his ear who knows the two players, Ashley Cole heard what John Terry said he was walking past him and several players around heard it, but none of these reacted is it common thing or he did say blind?, Drogba challenge all there players ran at the ref to say send him off, players react to things they don't like.

[Redcliffe 78]

and Evra had cried wolf I believe 3 times before, which makes it less of a story.

I am no expert Esmond but i think an editor with the many camera's at football grounds now could look back and see if they can see what he is saying or maybe Suraz done it in his ear who knows the two players, Ashley Cole heard what John Terry said he was walking past him and several players around heard it, but none of these reacted is it common thing or he did say blind?, Drogba challenge all there players ran at the ref to say send him off, players react to things they don't like.

Sorry double post.

[downendcity]

The dispute has been settled as lip readers have verified it, and John Terry confirms that he did indeed call Ferdinand a ******* black c***.

Ferdinand was repoerted as being delighted with the news and that the matter could be put to rest. He added that during the match he had been certain that Terry had called him a ******* Bristol City defender, and had this been the case it would have constituted serious personal abuse and could have ruined his career.

John Terry commented that he was disappointed that anyone could think that he would stoop so low as to use such a derogatory expression to a fellow professional.

[wayne allisons tongues]

All Anton Ferdinand has to do is say yes or no if it was said. I think either media have hyped this up and he is now embaressed to say anything, by the way qpr have said we want it looked into to, but not saying yes or no. His cousin is rio ferdinand who lost England captaincy and there's a hidden agenda from his family.

[Redcliffe 78]

All Anton Ferdinand has to do is say yes or no if it was said. I think either media have hyped this up and he is now embaressed to say anything, by the way qpr have said we want it looked into to, but not saying yes or no. His cousin is rio ferdinand who lost England captaincy and there's a hidden agenda from his family.

He his actually his brother, ones a good centre back the other not so good.

[lee67]

I don't know what the problem is live and let live thats what i say.

Except gingers i ******* hate gingers.