Retained List

[Timbo7]

All sounds a bit cynical, but there's a lot of truth in there Noggers

The halcyon days of one club players are well and truly over, and the game is none the better for it

I completely agree - and very well put Nogbad

Similarly, judging by the content of this forum at least, the halcyon days when supporters respected long-serving players for the service they have given are also long-gone. It seems to now be an acceptable response to defeat to indiscriminately hurl personal abuse around regardless of the particular player's history. I no longer have the stomach to defend Fontaine (although he too deserves respect for his part in our most successful team in 30 years) but I remain unable to comprehend how any Bristol City fan can find it so easy to disrespect Marvin and Louis.

This is indicative of how football support has degraded over the SKY era - it is no longer unusual to hear the same sort of disrespectful crap aimed at Scholes and Carragher or even Lampard, Terry and Giggs on Saturday night phone-ins. I'm no great fan of any of these players but I am sure if I had even the slightest affection for the clubs that they play for, they would be my heroes (like Louis and Marvin).

[Super]

Why the excitement or even the interest in such a meaningless list?

We have already been told that none of the contracted players will be "transfer-listed" and that contracts (of sorts) will be offered (with little prospect of them being signed) to a few of the out-of-contract players (see other threads on Stead, Skuse, Heaton and Nyatanga).

Will the Retained List contain any real indication of the squad that will be here in August? - of course not - see other threads on Baldock, Davies and Albert.

Will the Retained List contain any reliable indication of SO'D's preferred outcome? - again of course not - "transfer-listing" is effectively a thing of the past and certainly does not make shifting unwanted players on good wages any easier. Does anyone imagine that the market did not know that Marcus Stewart, Lee Trundle, Nicky Hunt, JCR, LeeJ, Damion Stewart, Clarkson or Pittman were available for free (or close to it) to anyone prepared to match their absurd wages?

Once again, the players still here in August will (with perhaps only three or four exceptions) be those, whether currently under contract or not, that are unable to secure a more lucrative offer elsewhere. Bristol City will have very little control over this whether we like it or not. The exceptions are those that might attract a substantial fee (Adomah, Cunningham, Badock and Davies perhaps) who might be retained until/unless our expectations are met.

Yes a meaningless list containing the best keeper we have had in years.

[Akira]

Heaton is the only one worth keeping IMO.

[SecretSam]

When you talk of a player loving the club take a moment to compare it to the devotion of the fans, or indeed BCFC players like Geoff Merrick and Tom Ritchie who turned down a fortune by declining a move to Arsenal in their determination to bring success to BCFC.

Frankly, bigger fool them for turning down Arsenal. Heart over head? Daft.

Also good example of a similar case is a Mr A Shearer, could have gone to ManUre and won everything, went to Newcastle and won sweet FA, just so that he could be Mr Billy BigBalls.

They are employees, same as at any other firm or organisation. It's a JOB, and if they see another job at another employer that is more attractive, they can and will leave. There may be family reasons to stay, but otherwise they will go.

And I don't blame any player for moving on, not one iota. Loyalty? We are loyal - it's in our blood - they are not, they are paid employees. Nothing more. We cannot and should not expect anything other than that they perform to an adequate level, as determined by their contract of employment.

[MichaelRobartes]

Frankly, bigger fool them for turning down Arsenal. Heart over head? Daft.

Also good example of a similar case is a Mr A Shearer, could have gone to ManUre and won everything, went to Newcastle and won sweet FA, just so that he could be Mr Billy BigBalls.

They are employees, same as at any other firm or organisation. It's a JOB, and if they see another job at another employer that is more attractive, they can and will leave. There may be family reasons to stay, but otherwise they will go.

And I don't blame any player for moving on, not one iota. Loyalty? We are loyal - it's in our blood - they are not, they are paid employees. Nothing more. We cannot and should not expect anything other than that they perform to an adequate level, as determined by their contract of employment.

I've always thought the point about Shearer unfair. He earned a serious wedge by playing for and captaining his boyhood club at the top level of English football many many times. What could possibly be better than that? I know that players are employees and (are supposed to be) professionals, but I don't see how anyone would get more fulfillment out of playing for any other club than the one that they grew up with and love. It's not all about trophies.

[glynriley]

Frankly, bigger fool them for turning down Arsenal. Heart over head? Daft.

Also good example of a similar case is a Mr A Shearer, could have gone to ManUre and won everything, went to Newcastle and won sweet FA, just so that he could be Mr Billy BigBalls.

They are employees, same as at any other firm or organisation. It's a JOB, and if they see another job at another employer that is more attractive, they can and will leave. There may be family reasons to stay, but otherwise they will go.

And I don't blame any player for moving on, not one iota. Loyalty? We are loyal - it's in our blood - they are not, they are paid employees. Nothing more. We cannot and should not expect anything other than that they perform to an adequate level, as determined by their contract of employment.

What about job satisfaction ?

There are plenty of people who criticise players for not showing loyalty , but you criticise them for doing it !

Maybe Shearer could have earned more money , won more trophies at Man Utd , but he fulfilled his boyhood dream by playing for Newcastle and just maybe he thought he'd make the difference for them and help them win a trophy.

Matt Le Tissier is another one. Better their attitude than someone who looks to jump ship at every opportunity to chase the money.

[SecretSam]

What about job satisfaction ?

There are plenty of people who criticise players for not showing loyalty , but you criticise them for doing it !

Maybe Shearer could have earned more money , won more trophies at Man Utd , but he fulfilled his boyhood dream by playing for Newcastle and just maybe he thought he'd make the difference for them and help them win a trophy.

Matt Le Tissier is another one. Better their attitude than someone who looks to jump ship at every opportunity to chase the money.

Job satisfaction? I get that from working in a job that challenges me to do the best that I can, at the highest possible level. Most footballers are probably the same. But there are a range of personalities in any profession.

Some players like being Mr Big, such as Shearer. Some just aren't that motivated by success, such as Mr Le Tissier (great player but too happy to just cruise along rather than push himself harder). Maybe that was the case with Tom Ritchie, for example.

It's about personalities. My point is, we shouldn't expect behaviours from footballers that we don't exhibit ourselves. At the end of the day, they have to earn a crust, same as us. And if they can do better moving on, so be it.

I really don't get the "Loyalty" thing; why should we expect it, when we ourselves will very openly criticise these same players for not being good enough, regardless of how "loyal" they are? Loyalty cuts both ways. Should we be loyal to Carey, even though he's probably past his prime? Yet he's been loyal to City (mostly).

[Drew Peacock]

They are employees, same as at any other firm or organisation. It's a JOB, and if they see another job at another employer that is more attractive, they can and will leave. There may be family reasons to stay, but otherwise they will go.

Not everybody behaves like that.

[glynriley]

Job satisfaction? I get that from working in a job that challenges me to do the best that I can, at the highest possible level. Most footballers are probably the same. But there are a range of personalities in any profession.

Some players like being Mr Big, such as Shearer. Some just aren't that motivated by success, such as Mr Le Tissier (great player but too happy to just cruise along rather than push himself harder). Maybe that was the case with Tom Ritchie, for example.

It's about personalities. My point is, we shouldn't expect behaviours from footballers that we don't exhibit ourselves. At the end of the day, they have to earn a crust, same as us. And if they can do better moving on, so be it.

I really don't get the "Loyalty" thing; why should we expect it, when we ourselves will very openly criticise these same players for not being good enough, regardless of how "loyal" they are? Loyalty cuts both ways. Should we be loyal to Carey, even though he's probably past his prime? Yet he's been loyal to City (mostly).

Good for you. I try to get away with doing as little as possible , hence posting on this forum at 11.15 !!!

[MichaelRobartes]

Job satisfaction? I get that from working in a job that challenges me to do the best that I can, at the highest possible level. Most footballers are probably the same. But there are a range of personalities in any profession.

Some players like being Mr Big, such as Shearer. Some just aren't that motivated by success, such as Mr Le Tissier (great player but too happy to just cruise along rather than push himself harder). Maybe that was the case with Tom Ritchie, for example.

It's about personalities. My point is, we shouldn't expect behaviours from footballers that we don't exhibit ourselves. At the end of the day, they have to earn a crust, same as us. And if they can do better moving on, so be it.

I really don't get the "Loyalty" thing; why should we expect it, when we ourselves will very openly criticise these same players for not being good enough, regardless of how "loyal" they are? Loyalty cuts both ways. Should we be loyal to Carey, even though he's probably past his prime? Yet he's been loyal to City (mostly).

I put it to you that players who are nowhere near the levels of the likes of Shearer or Le Tissier can 'cruise along' in better teams than Newcastle and Southampton. Players like John O'Shea, Wes Brown and Nicky Butt were all seen as good solid pros at Man Utd and picked up a lot of winners' medals but were pretty hopeless after leaving.

I also put it to you that players who are as good or better than them can 'cruise along' in good teams because of the quality of some of their team mates. Describing what Le Tissier did at Southampton in such a way is pretty disrespectful when you look at his record and maybe England would have been a better team during his time if some England managers had been able to look past what clubs people played for and had considered their actual footballing ability.

[Red_Jim]

It's my birthday today, if the retained list is released I'm really hoping for some good news from City for a change.

[Nogbad the Bad]

Frankly, bigger fool them for turning down Arsenal. Heart over head? Daft.

And I don't blame any player for moving on, not one iota. Loyalty? We are loyal - it's in our blood - they are not, they are paid employees. Nothing more. We cannot and should not expect anything other than that they perform to an adequate level, as determined by their contract of employment.

You miss the point completely Sam.

We've established that Merrick and Ritchie turned down Arsenal because they were determined to reach the top flight with a club they had real emotional attachment to.

Unlike Louis Carey for instance - a self professed boyhood Liverpool fan - Geoff Merrick literally supported City for many years from the East End before becoming a professional. Tom Ritchie came over from Scotland (accompanying his older brother Steve, who was initially City's main interest) at an early age. City were his first club, he was quickly very much an adopted Bristolian, and along with his young team mates playing for Bristol City F.C., with a common goal, was soon an intrinsic part of him.

Their decision to reject Arsenal was not only admirable ( higher wages rejected and the departure at that time of the inspirational Captain and one of our main strikers would no doubt have derailed hopes of promotion ) but also proved sound as City not only went up but outplayed Arsenal just months later. Geoff Merrick in particular had fulfilled his boyhood dream of Captaining the club he had supported all his life to promotion and no doubt the night match against Portsmouth and the stunning victory at Highbury will live with him forever.

From a financial point of view of course they also got the just rewards for their loyalty in rejecting Arsenal with 4 years of top flight wages - and City were certainly no mean payers in those days - so they were winners out of the situation in every sense, personal and professional.

You can't wave a wad of notes at true loyalty and love for a club, as Arsenal discovered, and it's something BCFC fans of the era will always be grateful for to SIr Geoffrey and the great Tom Ritchie.

[herman]

dont see why they'd wait so long, if it was gonna come out today? EP possibly printing rubbish again

[Monkeh]

dont see why they'd wait so long, if it was gonna come out today? EP possibly printing rubbish again

gives them time to talk to everyone then reliese the list andmake avialable any who are transfer listed, does take a bit of time

[Nogbad the Bad]

It's my birthday today, if the retained list is released I'm really hoping for some good news from City for a change.

Happy Birthday citypope, hopefully most of the ooc City players will be 'given their cards' shortly too.

[bucksred]

I don't know if people realise how long and drawn out contract negotiations are. I must admit I used to think they stated around the end of the season for players we wanted to keep, or once we knew what our league status would be at least. I know for a fact that one player has had a contract offered back in August/September, ie firstly by Del then by SoD.

I guess there are other players in this situation too. I also think that it has been a long time to think things over and if a deal was likely to happen it would have been signed by now, therefore at least one player has made up his mind and has said his goodbyes.

so Em, we have another Maynard type situation on the go...another one taking the p...maybes more. If they dont sign more or less straight away they aint gonna, such is the modern players respect for clubs..

[bucksred]

My worry is S'OD's love in with Kilkenny. The guy only knows how to pass it sides ways or back. Loses the ball in vital areas many times a game. And S'OD comes off the field singing his praises..

If he is going to build his team around KilKenny I think we are in for a midtable finish.

Wouldnt be any different than having a midfield built around Lee Johnson, look where THAT got us..

[Monkeh]

Wouldnt be any different than having a midfield built around Lee Johnson, look where THAT got us..

Promoted, play-off final and 10th

[Sargent Pepper]

As Timbo said at the top of the page, we can all pretty much guess that most of the out of contract players will leave & as SOD has stated anyone under contract will report for pre season duty.

Most people are just champing at the bit to go into melt down if a player they don't rate is offered an extension

[TRL]

So Heaton Carey and tango to stay. Just been announced

[Sargent Pepper]

As Timbo said at the top of the page, we can all pretty much guess that most of the out of contract players will leave & as SOD has stated anyone under contract will report for pre season duty.

Most people are just champing at the bit to go into melt down if a player they don't rate is offered an extension

So Heaton Carey and tango to stay. Just been announced

Here we go.......

[ben91tucker]

@bbcbristolsport: Bristol City confirm Cole Skuse & Jon Stead will leave the club this summer. Tom Heaton, Lewin Nyatanga & Louis Carey offered new deals.

[Club and Country]

On official site but won't open for me......

[herman]

So Heaton Carey and tango to stay. Just been announced

no, it says they've been offered new deals, not that they are going to stay

[Club and Country]

Hope Heaton stays. Plus surely we will need to sign another keeper regardless?

[Club and Country]

Exactly that Herman

[TRL]

no, it says they've been offered new deals, not that they are going to stay

I'm sorry, I should have put a question mark instead of a full stop.

[MichaelRobartes]

Hope Heaton stays. Plus surely we will need to sign another keeper regardless?

If Heaton doesn't sign a new contract then we may need three given that Gerken and Lewis Carey are moving on.

[Tomo]

Carey ??? Job for the boys...

[petehinton]

Carey being given another new deal is criminal