Rovers Ground

[gashead76]

Hmmm ok. Well there's little help I can offer with this level of disillusion!

[Kingswood Village]

You're seriously suggesting that your design will be better because you have been playing against teams who play in better stadia and therefore by implication suggesting that the UWE can only be as good as the best league 2 grounds we visit?! Football league rules do allow club representatives and architects to visit stadia outside their leagues for research purposes you know! Have a day off!

And do you really think you'll be asked for anything more than suggestions on the colour of the seats, where to stick a statue of atyeo etc. I don't see you having much of a say in the grand design.

Me thinks the gas has got this ones brain. Go - go ahead and hear what you want to hear my friend of the additional digit. When the SGB is built and you are sat on your blue seat in a bowl in a university car park just outside bristol with a terrible atmosphere - you may realise that actually - dem orrubble shit eads was right......

[Super]

Hmmm ok. Well there's little help I can offer with this level of disillusion!

Good. Now piss off.

[GoingUp]

Serious question.what is all this soulless bowl description of the proposed gas stadium about.ive only come across it in biblical terms in reference to human beings so I don't get how a stadium can be soulless as its not human.maybe the description soulless like would fit better.ah soulless because there wont be any poor souls at a game....penny....dropped, I think.

[gashead76]

Me thinks the gas has got this ones brain. Go - go ahead and hear what you want to hear my friend of the additional digit. When the SGB is built and you are sat on your blue seat in a bowl in a university car park just outside bristol with a terrible atmosphere - you may realise that actually - dem orrubble shit eads was right......

How ironic, from the masters of hearing what they want.

And trust me, when I'm sitting (not sat) in my blue seat in the UWE, I won't be thinking of you!

I'll leave you to ponder what you might be thinking when you're sitting in your blue seat in a revamped AG.....

Night night xxx

[bcfcsouth]

Gashead76, in regards to redoing Ashton gate, the club have showed fans images and have changed things on the responses.

They have kinda listened on some parts. I wouldn't personally like a bowl. That's not knocking you, I just would hate to have a bowl, regardless of who it is.

there are not many new bowls, who many fans have really been happy they have moved too. It's all down to personal taste. Just bowls, they lack something.

Take the mem, you got a great terrace at the minute and your fans seem happy to have a "standard" ground. Will your fans be happy on sitting down?

There's a massive push for safe standing at the moment, and the rules will change, how come how rovers fan seem to be pushing for this?

it also makes me laugh about rovers fans saying Ashton gate has no atmosphere. How do they really know this?

It's like me saying the mem is awful etc etc and you only have one song, but how on earth do I know that??

[Kingswood Village]

How ironic, from the masters of hearing what they want.

And trust me, when I'm sitting (not sat) in my blue seat in the UWE, I won't be thinking of you!

I'll leave you to ponder what you might be thinking when you're sitting in your blue seat in a revamped AG.....

Night night xxx

What has you retaking your GCSE maths got to do with anything?

[Manon]

The space above the bowl has room for a second tier on three sides should extra seating be required. Brighton have just expanded their capacity in similar fashion.

No they haven't. It wasn't even a bowl when built as they have just filled in the corners for their expansion, and even those are not completely generic looking, so still very different to the mem.

AV was/is to have an all round open concourse as well.

[gashead76]

Gashead76, in regards to redoing Ashton gate, the club have showed fans images and have changed things on the responses.

They have kinda listened on some parts. I wouldn't personally like a bowl. That's not knocking you, I just would hate to have a bowl, regardless of who it is.

there are not many new bowls, who many fans have really been happy they have moved too. It's all down to personal taste. Just bowls, they lack something.

Take the mem, you got a great terrace at the minute and your fans seem happy to have a "standard" ground. Will your fans be happy on sitting down?

There's a massive push for safe standing at the moment, and the rules will change, how come how rovers fan seem to be pushing for this?

it also makes me laugh about rovers fans saying Ashton gate has no atmosphere. How do they really know this?

It's like me saying the mem is awful etc etc and you only have one song, but how on earth do I know that??

Well fair play, any club would be crazy not to get the input of fans and its good to know City are doing so. My point was that I don't think it's a new idea, but good nonetheless. You say they've "kinda listened on some parts" but I guess any you get to the point with any suggestions where they become a bit too "structural" to be viable.

I totally agree re. the bowl comment. Not everyone's cup of tea, but as mentioned earlier, you have to bear in mind where we're coming from on this, ie a home of 15 or so yrs which has never felt like home. Sure the terrace is great and when it's packed it's awesome, but those occasions are too few. I'm not sure the fans are happy with our standard ground. New stadia are synonymous with progress these days and we all feel that we need one to move forward. Can you really see the mem in the championship?!

As for arguments about AG/mem having no atmosphere, well as you said, how would we know? I'll leave it to the kids in the "know" to debate that!

Ta for the sensible reply!

[bcfcsouth]

Gashead76, I would personally rather go the mem when we were in the championship, I mean a ground like the mem. More of a proper ground, than somewhere like, Leicester, derby, Mboro etc.

Then again, I guess that's modern football isn't it, everything has to be all new and modern etc. unfortunately a lot of the times, that's a "boring bowl"

[weeble]

No they haven't. It wasn't even a bowl when built as they have just filled in the corners for their expansion, and even those are not completely generic looking, so still very different to the mem.

AV was/is to have an all round open concourse as well.

It was designed specifically to allow the corners to be filled in and form a bowl. When opened, there was no upper tier in the east stand but there is now. In other words the design allowed for an extra seating tier just like UWE.

The Amex is very distinctive and I like it, but with a build cost of £66m that is a lot more than either Bristol club will spend at UWE or AG.

[Rich]

If you intend putting the record straight, it would help if you got your facts right.

4. Both figures are incorrect - a 50% share of the newly established Memorial Stadium Company was purchased for £2.3m.

6. The arrangement applied equally to both parties in order to protect the other in case of administration. It's not exactly unusual for

football clubs to go into administration. I'm sure we can all think of plenty of examples.

8. The rugby club sold an option to purchase the training ground before Rovers became tenants. Once the option was exercised the

club were powerless to prevent it. The sale prevented the development of the site into anything like the proposed AG set up as

it made it too small.

The Memorial Stadium Company shows no debts (and no assets either) because they were transferred to BRFC 1883Ltd.

I don't believe Rovers acted out of kindness in becoming the ruby club's tenants anymore than they had taken pity on Rovers in inviting them. Clearly both parties had something to gain. The resultant purchase by Rovers is entirely down to massive financial incompetence by the rugby club and the Bristol fans acknowledge that.

The value of £6m is theoretical as it requires a purchaser willing to pay it. There are four professional sports treams in Bristol and City and GCCC own their grounds and don't need one, giving a field of one football team and a distribution company. £2.3m for a half share is a way better deal than less than that for all of it.

Have you produced any facts to correct anything I've said? No.

My reference to the 50% share of the stadium company came from the lips of Dunceford, he stated that they have acquired a 50% share in £6million worth of property, for £2million.

Although the arrangement applied to both parties in the agreement and that either could have gone bust, anyone with an ounce of sense would know that the rugby club were in a perilous position. That position was confirmed when the chairman (Arthur Holmes) put the club into administration after relegation in 1998. Rovers only became tennents in 1996, I'm not sure but think that the purchase of a 50% share was made at the start of 1998, so not too long before the added clause was implemented.

I didn't refer to anything about an option to sell the other half or when it was done. I said that the land was sold after the other parties 50% share in the stadium company was bought for £10,000. Some of your supporters would have people believe that the new owners of the stadium company never actually sold it, or received the money for it.

You have stated that I should get my facts right before commenting, you have not produced any facts or evidence to back up your counter claims. Please then provide date of agreement for new company, share issue for company, who the recipient was of those funds, when the land was sold and who received the monies. Because so far you've tried to fudge over the actual issues with a smokescreen to try and justify the exploitation of a clubs situation, exactly as BRFC have tried to do in the past and still claim the moral high ground.

As another interesting addition to the poor exploited rugby clubs position, it appears that the former chairman of Bristol rugby club Mr Arthur Holmes, the same chairman that put them into administration and agreed the deal to sell the 50% share which included the cheap purchase clause, became an honourary vice chairman of BRFC. Now that's interesting isn't it?

[bert tann]

Mao Zedong and Ho Chi Minh didn't mess about when dealing with a ruling elite they clobbered them where it hurt. They didn't kowtow to the parasites in the hope of smarming their way to a gong or an honorary degree for services to the status quo. If they were in charge of our football clubs we wouldn't be squabbling about how fancy our grounds were going to be we'd be pitching back and forth about goals, victories, centre forwards and wingers because that's what football's about. They've duped us into thinking big bars and banqueting suites are more important than the Biggs, Bradford, Briggs and Bartley's who actually play the game. No,it's clear to me that Lansdown and Higgs are just provincial cardboard cut out imitations of tricky Dicky Nixon and they'll end up the same way. Ashton Gates, Memorial Gates, Water Gates, all is not how it seems and soon it will be the hen-houses not the stadiums of Bristol which will be full of feathered fowl perching for the night.

[DancinDannyD]

Mao Zedong and Ho Chi Minh didn't mess about when dealing with a ruling elite they clobbered them where it hurt. They didn't kowtow to the parasites in the hope of smarming their way to a gong or an honorary degree for services to the status quo. If they were in charge of our football clubs we wouldn't be squabbling about how fancy our grounds were going to be we'd be pitching back and forth about goals, victories, centre forwards and wingers because that's what football's about. They've duped us into thinking big bars and banqueting suites are more important than the Biggs, Bradford, Briggs and Bartley's who actually play the game. No,it's clear to me that Lansdown and Higgs are just provincial cardboard cut out imitations of tricky Dicky Nixon and they'll end up the same way. Ashton Gates, Memorial Gates, Water Gates, all is not how it seems and soon it will be the hen-houses not the stadiums of Bristol which will be full of feathered fowl perching for the night.

Can I have some of what you're on please?

Ah yes, the transfer of real estate from one of the Bristol elite (the rugby club) to another (UWE) using the Rovers as a conduit.

Are you the same Bert Tann that claimed that the UWE Chancellor had 'played a blinder' on the old Rovers Alternative Forum about a year ago and that Higgs had been stitched up - but was unable to articulate what exactly the UWE were going to do with a near 22,000 capacity stadium solely for University use after the Rovers were kicked out / killed off?

[weeble]

Have you produced any facts to correct anything I've said? No.

My reference to the 50% share of the stadium company came from the lips of Dunceford, he stated that they have acquired a 50% share in £6million worth of property, for £2million.

Although the arrangement applied to both parties in the agreement and that either could have gone bust, anyone with an ounce of sense would know that the rugby club were in a perilous position. That position was confirmed when the chairman (Arthur Holmes) put the club into administration after relegation in 1998. Rovers only became tennents in 1996, I'm not sure but think that the purchase of a 50% share was made at the start of 1998, so not too long before the added clause was implemented.

I didn't refer to anything about an option to sell the other half or when it was done. I said that the land was sold after the other parties 50% share in the stadium company was bought for £10,000. Some of your supporters would have people believe that the new owners of the stadium company never actually sold it, or received the money for it.

You have stated that I should get my facts right before commenting, you have not produced any facts or evidence to back up your counter claims. Please then provide date of agreement for new company, share issue for company, who the recipient was of those funds, when the land was sold and who received the monies. Because so far you've tried to fudge over the actual issues with a smokescreen to try and justify the exploitation of a clubs situation, exactly as BRFC have tried to do in the past and still claim the moral high ground.

As another interesting addition to the poor exploited rugby clubs position, it appears that the former chairman of Bristol rugby club Mr Arthur Holmes, the same chairman that put them into administration and agreed the deal to sell the 50% share which included the cheap purchase clause, became an honourary vice chairman of BRFC. Now that's interesting isn't it?

The figure of £2.3m was quoted in the media at the time and is also the figure quoted on Rovers' website in the section on the ground. The Memorial Stadium Company was incorporated on March 27th 1998. It is listed as not trading.

As far as I am aware, what I've said is factually correct. As for who received the proceeds from the training ground sale, I don't know and didn't claim to.

If you choose to view the events of 1998 as exploitation so be it, but several rugby fans have said that if the positions were reversed then they would have done exactly the same.

I have no idea whether Arthur Holmes' positions are interesting or not. John Laycock your ex-chairman, was a director of Bristol Rugby until a year ago or so and is a governor of UWE, but I'm not sure what I should infer from that either.

[bert tann]

Can I have some of what you're on please?

Ah yes, the transfer of real estate from one of the Bristol elite (the rugby club) to another (UWE) using the Rovers as a conduit.

Are you the same Bert Tann that claimed that the UWE Chancellor had 'played a blinder' on the old Rovers Alternative Forum about a year ago and that Higgs had been stitched up - but was unable to articulate what exactly the UWE were going to do with a near 22,000 capacity stadium solely for University use after the Rovers were kicked out / killed off?

Am I getting warm ?

[i hate you butler]

Mao Zedong and Ho Chi Minh didn't mess about when dealing with a ruling elite they clobbered them where it hurt. They didn't kowtow to the parasites in the hope of smarming their way to a gong or an honorary degree for services to the status quo. If they were in charge of our football clubs we wouldn't be squabbling about how fancy our grounds were going to be we'd be pitching back and forth about goals, victories, centre forwards and wingers because that's what football's about. They've duped us into thinking big bars and banqueting suites are more important than the Biggs, Bradford, Briggs and Bartley's who actually play the game. No,it's clear to me that Lansdown and Higgs are just provincial cardboard cut out imitations of tricky Dicky Nixon and they'll end up the same way. Ashton Gates, Memorial Gates, Water Gates, all is not how it seems and soon it will be the hen-houses not the stadiums of Bristol which will be full of feathered fowl perching for the night.

jesus

[DancinDannyD]

Am I getting warm ?

Care to elaborate once more how the UWE Chancellor has 'played a blinder' as I never did fully understand. Genuine request, I'd love to know / understand.

[redfred]

Care to elaborate once more how the UWE Chancellor has 'played a blinder' as I never did fully understand. Genuine request, I'd love to know / understand.

Even your own fans think you're a cock.

League Two - AGAIN!!!

[DancinDannyD]

Even your own fans think you're a cock.

League Two - AGAIN!!!

? What? Genuine question, BT may purport to be Gas but has form for making vague statements on the whole UWE ownership / financing but doesn't articulate the 'end goal' that will be achieved.

IF I've understood (from previous posts on other forums) correctly BT is suggesting that the UWE / Merchant Venturers have set the whole stadium thing up solely for the benefit of the UWE / Merchant Venturers, Higgs is being played for a fool and ultimately ownership will go to them with Rovers becoming homeless or dying.

Now IF I've understood properly, I'm keen to understand how the UWE propose to utilise / fill a 22k venue without Rovers there given the rugby club are off to AG. Uni sport wouldn't fill even 10% of the capacity, so unless they have an alternative tenant in mind, they'll have a massive white elephant on their hands.

I'm not saying BT is wrong, I just can't see the bigger picture so I'm hoping that BT can just get to the point without having to be so cryptic.

[redfred]

? What? Genuine question, BT may purport to be Gas but has form for making vague statements on the whole UWE ownership / financing but doesn't articulate the 'end goal' that will be achieved.

IF I've understood (from previous posts on other forums) correctly BT is suggesting that the UWE / Merchant Venturers have set the whole stadium thing up solely for the benefit of the UWE / Merchant Venturers, Higgs is being played for a fool and ultimately ownership will go to them with Rovers becoming homeless or dying.

Now IF I've understood properly, I'm keen to understand how the UWE propose to utilise / fill a 22k venue without Rovers there given the rugby club are off to AG. Uni sport wouldn't fill even 10% of the capacity, so unless they have an alternative tenant in mind, they'll have a massive white elephant on their hands.

I'm not saying BT is wrong, I just can't see the bigger picture so I'm hoping that BT can just get to the point without having to be so cryptic.

For clarity, I have read none of your above post.

Also for clarity: your new stadium is a soulless bowl and you will be playing in League Two again next season, much to my, and many other City fans', amusement.

[DancinDannyD]

For clarity, I have read none of your above post.

Also for clarity: your new stadium is a soulless bowl and you will be playing in League Two again next season, much to my, and many other City fans', amusement.

Thanks for your comments

Given where we were at Christmas I'm happy to be playing in L2 next season. You however, have just been relegated despite having a billionaire Chairman pumping £m's of cash in that he'll never see again. Much to my amusement.

[gashead76]

Gashead76, I would personally rather go the mem when we were in the championship, I mean a ground like the mem. More of a proper ground, than somewhere like, Leicester, derby, Mboro etc.

Then again, I guess that's modern football isn't it, everything has to be all new and modern etc. unfortunately a lot of the times, that's a "boring bowl"

Indeed! Proper old grounds are a dying breed sadly.

[redfred]

Thanks for your comments

Given where we were at Christmas I'm happy to be playing in L2 next season. You however, have just been relegated despite having a billionaire Chairman pumping £m's of cash in that he'll never see again. Much to my amusement.

Give me a billionaire and League One football over anything Bristol Rovers has to offer any day of the week.

[Rich]

The figure of £2.3m was quoted in the media at the time and is also the figure quoted on Rovers' website in the section on the ground. The Memorial Stadium Company was incorporated on March 27th 1998. It is listed as not trading.

As far as I am aware, what I've said is factually correct. As for who received the proceeds from the training ground sale, I don't know and didn't claim to.

If you choose to view the events of 1998 as exploitation so be it, but several rugby fans have said that if the positions were reversed then they would have done exactly the same.

I have no idea whether Arthur Holmes' positions are interesting or not. John Laycock your ex-chairman, was a director of Bristol Rugby until a year ago or so and is a governor of UWE, but I'm not sure what I should infer from that either.

The figure of £2 million was also in the media, as quoted by the then chairman of BRFC and major shareholder Mr Dunceford. Whether it was £2million or £2.3 million, so what. The former chairman got it and not the rugby club, so it matters not really. What matters is that, the deal was done and within six months of it being done the rugby club had been put into administration by the person that had done the deal. He was the only benefactor of that deal, the deal to invite BRFC/(dunceford) into the fold, whilst getting his £2 million back and an honourary vice chairmanship from those he sold it to. The duncefords who were the major shareholders of both BRFC and the new company got a nice share in the sale of the training ground even though the option to sell was taken out before they sold it and received the money

.

As John Laycock had nothing to do with any of these deals, was not a benefactor in any part and his only guilt was being associated with BCFC and the rugby club, only goes to show how low you will go to defer from the main issues in your quest for moral high ground. The fact that a few disgruntled rugby fans have voiced their anger at their former administration which you have chosen again to use as some sort of justifiable support for your clubs underhand exploitation of the then situation, is just added proof of your blinkered biassed portrayal of reality.

[Rich]

PS Weeble. The rugby club were in the same position, they invited a cuckoo into the nest and were soon outed. Two years from start to end and less than six months after agreement to formerly share, they were gobbled up.

[Tall King Blox]

Oh dear, you all still going on, NEXT !

[BS34Red]

Haha that did make me chuckle. You seem to be getting a boner about what is essentially a big concourse. Good luck drinking elsewhere if over priced Carling isn't your thing.

Rail links? Parson Street is as close to the walking distance of FABW to the bland bowl.

Road links? Not only is the M32 a nightmare at anything close to peak time, the ring road is worse. Big car park? I assume youve not never tried to leave a big stadium csr park. Try visiting stoke for a wake up call.

Good luck with it all, I await your disappointed posts with

Relish.

They refuse to listen to anything negitive about their bowl, I live in the area of where the new bowl is yet they think they know what traffic is like better than myself. I plan my life around the traffic in this area so think i'm more experienced and able to give an informed view of the traffic problems in this area over someone like him who travels these roads now and then. They have looked at google maps most likely and looked at the road network and though that looks perfect but it is far from it. Heres a pic of the area for them.

http://goo.gl/maps/1dX4T

The roads form like a square , A4174, m32/m4, gipsy patch lane and glos rd north. On a weekend traffic isn't too bad, it's mainly shoppers, it will get worse when Asda is completed at Abbeywood Retail Park. The bowl is not in walking distance so most fans will arrive on public transport or by car. On a weekend game it will be a nightmare with a potential 22k fans coming and going at the same time.

Mid week games are what will be catastrophic for the local road network. Every weekday already it's at a stand still between 3-7. Schools finishing, people finishing work etc. Gipsy patch lane always backed up with traffic cos of the lights near Vauxhall and then at the railbridge, workers coming out of Rolls Royce. Then by Parkway all the way upto the MOD is always rammed. A4174 often backs up from the motorways all the way up. Walking to either of the stations is at least a half hour walk. Thats just in that square i've described, slightly outside of that square you got the traffic at Aztec West and the Almondsbury interchange and also Southmead Road, Monks Park and Filton Roads. Add a accident or some roadworks and I personally would not venture out on those roads.

But they know best despite not living in the area like myself. I think they are gonna be in for a huge shock at the bowl. There is a huge difference between getting 5k at the memorial ground and getting between 12-15k at the bluebowl.

[DancinDannyD]

They refuse to listen to anything negitive about their bowl, I live in the area of where the new bowl is yet they think they know what traffic is like better than myself. I plan my life around the traffic in this area so think i'm more experienced and able to give an informed view of the traffic problems in this area over someone like him who travels these roads now and then. They have looked at google maps most likely and looked at the road network and though that looks perfect but it is far from it. Heres a pic of the area for them.

http://goo.gl/maps/1dX4T

The roads form like a square , A4174, m32/m4, gipsy patch lane and glos rd north. On a weekend traffic isn't too bad, it's mainly shoppers, it will get worse when Asda is completed at Abbeywood Retail Park. The bowl is not in walking distance so most fans will arrive on public transport or by car. On a weekend game it will be a nightmare with a potential 22k fans coming and going at the same time.

Mid week games are what will be catastrophic for the local road network. Every weekday already it's at a stand still between 3-7. Schools finishing, people finishing work etc. Gipsy patch lane always backed up with traffic cos of the lights near Vauxhall and then at the railbridge, workers coming out of Rolls Royce. Then by Parkway all the way upto the MOD is always rammed. A4174 often backs up from the motorways all the way up. Walking to either of the stations is at least a half hour walk. Thats just in that square i've described, slightly outside of that square you got the traffic at Aztec West and the Almondsbury interchange and also Southmead Road, Monks Park and Filton Roads. Add a accident or some roadworks and I personally would not venture out on those roads.

But they know best despite not living in the area like myself. I think they are gonna be in for a huge shock at the bowl. There is a huge difference between getting 5k at the memorial ground and getting between 12-15k at the bluebowl.

Better not build there then .. Ooh too late, S Glos Councils own Transport Committee and the Department if Transport have approved the scheme already with a detailed analysis of likely traffic flows.

I'm not saying you're wrong - where I work gets really busy daily too, but it keeps moving, just sheer weight of traffic at times, it happens all over the country.

It's certainly no worse a location than AG and even you admit at weekends (when the majority of games will be played) are fine.

If we're ever in a position where were getting 22k turning up midweek, a short traffic delay will be a price I'd be prepared to pay

[BS34Red]

Better not build there then .. Ooh too late, S Glos Councils own Transport Committee and the Department if Transport have approved the scheme already with a detailed analysis of likely traffic flows.

I'm not saying you're wrong - where I work gets really busy daily too, but it keeps moving, just sheer weight of traffic at times, it happens all over the country.

It's certainly no worse a location than AG and even you admit at weekends (when the majority of games will be played) are fine.

If we're ever in a position where were getting 22k turning up midweek, a short traffic delay will be a price I'd be prepared to pay

Just cos the twits at South Glos council have done a study doesn't mean it's right, Their the reason why traffic is so bad cos of their over use of lights and poorly designed junctions.

I disagree with you that it keeps moving, I came out of b&q the other evening and headed down towards gipsy patch lane. Took me over an hour to get down to Rolls Royce.

Like others have said you havn't visited the grounds we have so we know what it is like when a new stadium is built in the wrong location.

As for Ashton Gate very rarely is there any traffic problems. A lot of our fans come on foot and we have plenty of establishments around the area so the coming and going of fans is phased. Once i've got to my car i'm on the Portway within 5 minutes.

I don't want to have to pay your price, what if I get a sudden urge to have a big mac?