Guest Posted October 14, 2016 Report Share Posted October 14, 2016 1 hour ago, WRERE said: How have you came to that conclusion? The result of this hearing isn't that he hadn't raped her , but that there isn't sufficient evidence to prove he did. Two very different things that maybe you should read up on before making stupid comments like that. Because the presumption is innocent until proven guilty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordy62 Posted October 14, 2016 Report Share Posted October 14, 2016 4 minutes ago, Maesknoll Red said: So is the often banded phrase "innocent until proven guilty" a phallacy? Is it actually "under suspicion until proven guilty and even if found not guilty". A very good point. And one I've had to think about. But it's a presumption of innocence that you talk about. Not absolute innocence. I think maybe you've taken my point out of context slightly, i was merely countering the people saying that he'd be proven innocent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesBCFC Posted October 14, 2016 Report Share Posted October 14, 2016 1 hour ago, Dollymarie said: The new evidence was from someone who came forward after his team appealed for witnesses and offered a 50k reward for statements given that led to a not guilty verdict. Yet again money has won here and done a massive disservice to victims of sex crimes everywhere. And the same guy also said he didn't want that reward money. Not commenting on the case as it all seems far too murky for anyone other than the accuser to really know the truth, but thought I'd just give the tidbit you decided to leave out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordy62 Posted October 14, 2016 Report Share Posted October 14, 2016 3 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said: Surely they can't still claim they achieved a conviction now it's been 'reversed'? Or does it still count as a win on their stats? I'm afraid I've no idea. But considering they decide whether to charge cases on whether there's a realistic prospect of conviction, they were seemingly right to charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted October 14, 2016 Report Share Posted October 14, 2016 Oh well that's a new one for the injustice system, rent a witness 50k a throw, another way for rich people to get away with stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marina's Rolls Royce Posted October 14, 2016 Report Share Posted October 14, 2016 It's a strange thing that now that he's been found not guilty that there's an implication by some that he's also not innocent. What perplexes me a bit is the fact that some are still calling him a "scum bag" or "wrong 'un" or similar. I just feel that if it was a bloke who was really drunk and having sex with a random girl who had taken him back to her hotel room where her female mate turned up and joined in then he'd be largely acknowledged as a lucky sod and the 2nd girl would not be classed as a 'scum bag'. Sexism takes many forms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chaplain Posted October 14, 2016 Report Share Posted October 14, 2016 Nothing to do with this case but of course the judicial system never finds anyone innocent, it doesn't have to that's not it's job, you are presumed innocent and remain so unless found guilty. That's true of a defendant in any trial, more than that it's true of all of us. None of us are ever declared to be innocent at any point in any of our dealings or behaviour, it would be impossible for us to be so, if the presumption of innocence is lessened or not taken as the default then we are all potentially guilty and our freedom is shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRISTOL86 Posted October 14, 2016 Report Share Posted October 14, 2016 1 hour ago, Dollymarie said: Yet again money has won here and done a massive disservice to victims of sex crimes everywhere. With all due respect Dolls, do you actually have any evidence to support that claim? It's a pretty bold one to make if not. As for doing a disservice to victims of sex crimes, is that correct considering that according to the court there hasn't been a sex crime committed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Maesknoll Red Posted October 14, 2016 Admin Report Share Posted October 14, 2016 2 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said: It's a strange thing that now that he's been found not guilty that there's an implication by some that he's also not innocent. What perplexes me a bit is the fact that some are still calling him a "scum bag" or "wrong 'un" or similar. I just feel that if it was a bloke who was really drunk and having sex with a random girl who had taken him back to her hotel room where her female mate turned up and joined in then he'd be largely acknowledged as a lucky sod and the 2nd girl would not be classed as a 'scum bag'. Sexism takes many forms. The original scenario is hardly uncommon, not sure why, if the girl made no accusation, that the CPS went ahead with the original prosecution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CotswoldRed Posted October 14, 2016 Report Share Posted October 14, 2016 1 hour ago, Alan Dicks said: The girl needs to be put in prison now imo Oh dear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marina's Rolls Royce Posted October 14, 2016 Report Share Posted October 14, 2016 2 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said: With all due respect Dolls, do you actually have any evidence to support that claim? It's a pretty bold one to make if not. As for doing a disservice to victims of sex crimes, is that correct considering that according to the court there hasn't been a sex crime committed? A ( ordinary) witness is allowed to claim reasonable expenses such as travel , subsistence and overnight accommodation. A professional witness ( Accountant/ Medical etc) is allowed to earn their usual rate and this can amount to tens of thousands or more. An ordinary witness as in the Evans case is not permitted to receive a massive bung as it most likely leads to perjury so I'm afraid I don't think it's correct that someone was given £50,000 to tarnish this girl's reputation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted October 14, 2016 Report Share Posted October 14, 2016 45 minutes ago, Tomarse said: For the HUNDRETH TIME she didn't accuse him of anything. The CPS charged him on the basis of HIS testiment of what happened. How did the case get referred to the CPS? Who reported the "crime" to the police? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted October 14, 2016 Report Share Posted October 14, 2016 12 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said: With all due respect Dolls, do you actually have any evidence to support that claim? It's a pretty bold one to make if not. As for doing a disservice to victims of sex crimes, is that correct considering that according to the court there hasn't been a sex crime committed? Yes the star witness is in line for a 50k payment for changing his original statement. PS:- Do you think this practice will not happen again?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marina's Rolls Royce Posted October 14, 2016 Report Share Posted October 14, 2016 3 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said: Yes the star witness is in line for a 50k payment for changing his original statement. Source? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Team In Keynsham Posted October 14, 2016 Report Share Posted October 14, 2016 Any legal eagles know if the Scottish criminal justice system still has the option of a "Not Proven" verdict along side "Guilty" and "Not Guilty"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted October 14, 2016 Report Share Posted October 14, 2016 2 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said: Source? He was questioned about it in court and I saw no denial that he was getting that payment, only that 50k meant little to him because he could earn more than that in a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WRERE Posted October 14, 2016 Report Share Posted October 14, 2016 19 minutes ago, 29AR said: Because the presumption is innocent until proven guilty So because we have to presume he's innocent until proven guilty it means the girl consented to the act? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRISTOL86 Posted October 14, 2016 Report Share Posted October 14, 2016 2 minutes ago, WRERE said: So because we have to presume he's innocent until proven guilty it means the girl consented to the act? I think it means that that it can't be proven that she didn't. Would you prefer the burden of proof was on the accused? Would you like to be sent to prison because someone said you did something and you can't prove otherwise? I find that a fairly terrifying prospect, personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesBCFC Posted October 14, 2016 Report Share Posted October 14, 2016 5 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said: He was questioned about it in court and I saw no denial that he was getting that payment, only that 50k meant little to him because he could earn more than that in a year. 11 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said: Yes the star witness is in line for a 50k payment for changing his original statement. PS:- Do you think this practice will not happen again?. 12 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said: A ( ordinary) witness is allowed to claim reasonable expenses such as travel , subsistence and overnight accommodation. A professional witness ( Accountant/ Medical etc) is allowed to earn their usual rate and this can amount to tens of thousands or more. An ordinary witness as in the Evans case is not permitted to receive a massive bung as it most likely leads to perjury so I'm afraid I don't think it's correct that someone was given £50,000 to tarnish this girl's reputation. The guy denied knowing about the reward and also said he didn't want the reward when questioned about it. Once again I won't make any comment on the case for the reasons I said before. However I do agree with MRR, that if there really was a £50k reward for coming forward with evidence then that is very dodgy to say the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted October 14, 2016 Report Share Posted October 14, 2016 I think what actually is being missed here is not any miscarriage of justice whatsoever, it's the fact that his original legal team were quite obviously not up to the job in the first place. Blame them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WRERE Posted October 14, 2016 Report Share Posted October 14, 2016 3 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said: I think it means that that it can't be proven that she didn't. Would you prefer the burden of proof was on the accused? Would you like to be sent to prison because someone said you did something and you can't prove otherwise? I find that a fairly terrifying prospect, personally. Obviously not but if you look at comment I replied to at the start , the user is stating that because the verdict was not guilty it means that she consented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bs3 Posted October 14, 2016 Report Share Posted October 14, 2016 Cleared of rape buy still a piece of scum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One BCFC Posted October 14, 2016 Report Share Posted October 14, 2016 Finally. Anyone seen Jessica Ennis-Hill apologise yet? Being accused of rape is one of the worst things a Man could ever be accused of I am delighted Ched got his justice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northsomersetred Posted October 14, 2016 Report Share Posted October 14, 2016 On 10/01/2015 at 10:12, LondonBristolian said: Firstly there is literally no evidence or reason to think those tweets referred to compensation - there's no reference to compensation nor any evidence she tried to get any and they were posted several months after the rape and several months before the trial. Secondly, I'm not sure any of us can say how someone 'should' respond to a traumatic event. And it's clearly plainly nonsensical to assume that, if someone were talking about getting compensation from a crime, that would therefore automatically mean no crime took place. I think the question here isn't really 'is her behaviour strange?' so much as 'why on Earth do you think you're a qualified to assess the set way rape victims ought to behave?'. Anytime you need advice on legal proceedings feel free to drop me a pm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bs3 Posted October 14, 2016 Report Share Posted October 14, 2016 Found not guilty on the past history of the victims sex life and on the evidence of two men who were received £50,000 for their testimony. Dark day for woman rights and justice in this country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted October 14, 2016 Report Share Posted October 14, 2016 7 minutes ago, BA14 RED said: Finally. Anyone seen Jessica Ennis-Hill apologise yet? Being accused of rape is one of the worst things a Man could ever be accused of I am delighted Ched got his justice. I don't see what Ennis has done wrong. He was a convicted rapist at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Maesknoll Red Posted October 14, 2016 Admin Report Share Posted October 14, 2016 "His conviction was referred to the Court of Appeal following a 10-month investigation by the Criminal Cases Review Commission (CCRC), which found new information not raised at the original trial." Taken from the BBC website, no mention of any £50K bungs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoSheds Posted October 14, 2016 Report Share Posted October 14, 2016 12 minutes ago, BA14 RED said: Finally. Anyone seen Jessica Ennis-Hill apologise yet? Being accused of rape is one of the worst things a Man could ever be accused of I am delighted Ched got his justice. Yes stupid woman Jessica getting involved, after he came out of jail she pocked her nose in and said he won.t play football again and I will have my name taken of the stand at Sheffield United. As for the girl going back to a Premier Inn drunk with two pro footballers what did she think was going to happen, get the scrabble board out, or watch tv. Sounds like a good time girl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redapple Posted October 14, 2016 Report Share Posted October 14, 2016 In my opinion and my experience the CPS are not fit for purpose . Like most parts of the current establishment they work with bias and an agenda . This guy is obviously no angel , but to have your life destroyed by flimsy evidence and an establishment that is hell bent on making an example to suit there agenda is so wrong . Apologies wont be forthcoming, they never are , but I hope he gets the satisfaction , like I did ,of looking those who 'framed' him right in the eye . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dollymarie Posted October 14, 2016 Report Share Posted October 14, 2016 15 minutes ago, Maesknoll Red said: "His conviction was referred to the Court of Appeal following a 10-month investigation by the Criminal Cases Review Commission (CCRC), which found new information not raised at the original trial." Taken from the BBC website, no mention of any £50K bungs. Here you go. From 2 days ago whilst the case was still going on https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/oct/11/witness-in-ched-evans-retrial-accused-of-lying-to-land-50000-reward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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