David Lloyd Statement

[Ian M]

The first thing you do when declaring war on someone is recall your Ambassador. Reckon we haven'tseen the worst of BS's actions yet.

[Atticus]

Wow.

 

A fans liaison guy deciding to refuse to actively involve himself with one of the biggest ways to liaise with fans?

Maybe its time to drop that stupid position then eh?

 

Pathetic imo.

 

Abuse??? Nonsense.

[phantom]

As the Q&A was vetted by mods abuse would be limited to the forum.How many abusive posts aimed at the Club liaison have been reported?

A big fat ZERO!

Many people probably don't realise what goes on behind the scenes of OTIB, but at mod level we're constantly responding to reports made about replies. I've never seen one associated with Dave Lloyd and just looked back through history of reports and found nothing...... Asked the question half four yesterday afternoon for someone to provide evidence of online abuse, and am still waiting

[phantom]

Of course people are probably overlooking the fact that Dave Lloyd was contactable via pm on here, and am led to believe there was much dialogue using that process.

I don't buy into contact by email, have heard numerous references where replies never received, it makes it even easier to ignore

[Guest]

The first thing you do when declaring war on someone is recall your Ambassador. Reckon we haven'tseen the worst of BS's actions yet.

Totally agree, we`ve just been poked with a stick so far. A great effort by many fans on the survey will probably be the last chance for a change in relations, I fear the course has been set though and the new broom is out.

I don't believe either for one second the bubble machine "error" was down to anything apart from the embarrassment of the threat of thousands of scarfs on the pitch.

I fear for the new vision and whats ahead, the end of the Eastend was indeed the end of an era

[Guest]

Not a problem.

 

Often difficult to understand the 'tone' of a written conversation, so please can you tell me what 'tone' that was in?  Genuine or Sarcastic?

Cynic by name........I know which one my moneys on.

[Harry]

Cynic by name........I know which one my moneys on.

I like to think I'm fair to all, woodsy. So I'll patiently await Mr Cynic's answer.

Cynic - anything in response?

[UREDS_91]

Should bring Frank Bruno in for a special episode of its a cop out.

In all seriousness though Dave has done well, we have to remember that he is only the messenger and can only say things he is authorized to say.

It's the decision makers we should be aiming the hostility towards.

[northsomersetred]

Good idea - but if he was sadomasochistic and wanted abusing - wouldn't he just stay on here?

 

Because it's done properly over there 

[Port Said Red]

This is a sad state of affairs, I was worried that this might be the outcome of Sundays affair when I saw posters who I barely recognised questioning Dave L's credentials as a supporter, a poster who has been on this forum long before my first post under any name. I think that in the end Dave's crime was not in the lack of communication in taking issues to the club, but his failure in bringing back the answers they wanted to hear, something he was in many situations never going to be able to do.

[WTMS]

A big fat ZERO!

Many people probably don't realise what goes on behind the scenes of OTIB, but at mod level we're constantly responding to reports made about replies. I've never seen one associated with Dave Lloyd and just looked back through history of reports and found nothing...... Asked the question half four yesterday afternoon for someone to provide evidence of online abuse, and am still waiting

This does not have to be un-redeemable.

The fans liaison could collaborate with mods to better govern the unreported abuse and vitriol he states he is receiving.

The fans liaison could still continue with the modded Q&A, but withdraw from posting in the main forum as club employees do at other clubs.

[phantom]

This is a sad state of affairs, I was worried that this might be the outcome of Sundays affair when I saw posters who I barely recognised questioning Dave L's credentials as a supporter

Would you care to show us all this comment?

Had a look and can't find anything remotely close

[RedM]

As the Q&A was vetted by mods abuse would be limited to the forum.

How many abusive posts aimed at the Club liaison have been reported?

None reported by the person himself or others on his behalf as Phantom has already stated, I did check too as I was puzzled. I guess the abusive fans must be doing so by other means which we haven't been made aware of.

I think DaveL was caught between a rock and a hard place as they say. My own view is he is being seen as Poacher turned Gamekeeper by many fans. Whereas I obviously don't support anyone being abusive as in most jobs you have to take a bit of rough along with the smooth, it's not all about giving out prizes and rewards.

[CyderInACan]

In view of Dave's previous career, and his untimely retirement from this forum, I hope this is a fitting and somber tribute.

 

I think DaveL will aprove - I like the synergy you've created here. Like the synergy between Bristol/City/Flyers/Water/Blue Glass (or something)

[ooRya]

Two thoughts on this really.

 

1. Sad that Dave feels this way, especially when the majority suffer the loss of his absence from this forum thanks to a very small minority.

 

2. But...........Can't understand why Dave, or anyone else for that matter, let things written on a forum get to them so much. It's just words written by anonymous fingers on an anonymous keyboard. Just ignore it?

[RedUn]

I have not really followed or understood what has agitated so much some fans, but agitated it has. I am not so interested in passing merit or not on the issues, but I do not agree that Dave L withdrawing from a forum is an issue. The worst form of communication is on a forum, as it invariably ends up with some people, not all becoming abusive and entering into a cycle of internet rage. I am not sure how many of us would expect to go to work and accept being abused as being an acceptable part of our work. A forum, with people hiding behind an internet name, or even twitter which is the same, is open for abuse. Dave L has left a means to contact him, and in areas of real grievance, then a face to face meeting is the way forward, as in every form of grievance resolution. People will rarely be abusive in a face to face encounter. I fully get why he has removed himself from this form of communication, but I do assume they will monitor comments on here. 

 

The club will never please everybody, and for the main it seems to me they are making good progress, and do actually listen far more to fans views than many other other clubs . That does not stop them doing strange things mind, I was confused as to why flags were being removed from the Dolman on Sunday as much as any other fan. There are means to discuss with the club on many levels, and there are many open meetings for this purpose. 

 

Football is a passionate sport, and forums are a means of venting, we are all I am sure guilty of a post that sometimes you look back and think, ooppsss maybe should not have said that. Maybe a shame a delete post is not possible hey. But that is forums, and every club has people venting , but it is the wrong medium to enter into sensible discussion as rarely is there sensible discussion. Look at many threads on here, rarely do you get into any debate before the mud slinging starts. 

 

Use the fan meetings well and I am sure many genuine issues can be resolved. At least it is very clear how to contact the club. I have my list ready....

 

As with so many of mankind's inventions, there is a huge capacity for all the various forms of social media to be used constructively and wisely. It is what their inventors had in mind after all. The flip side is always that its misuse by a few spoils it all for the many.

 

It seems to me that Dave has stepped away from a place where some people just chuck rocks about for fun but left the door wide open for proper (i.e. accountable, traceable) communication. We should wish him well because if that doesn't work who would want to follow in his footsteps?  

[Manon]

It's a disappointing twist, a culmination of a number of pointless sagas.

Let's wish Dave the best, thank him for the good work he has done, and move on, as that is his wish.

[Flaxbourton Red]

Phantom abuse, phantom ultras, phantom sinister right wing groups, phantom credibility, phantom presence on the forum.

Too many phantoms. Time to end all this -

time for...

GHOSTBUSTERS!

[Ashtonboy]

As someone who has recently posed some questions to Dave, in which we've had our disagreements, I feel it's only right for me to comment on this.

 

For a long time I thought Dave was doing a sterling job on here, but the last 12-18 months or so have very much gone backwards and it is my opinion that Dave's role was not what it once was (whether this was his own doing, or that of his employers, I don't know?)  I have been feeling that Dave has lost the 'Liaison' side of his role, and instead has mostly been portraying his 'own' opinion on matters.

For me, this is not what his role should be.  He should be relaying the views of the fans to the board / club, and then relaying the clubs views back, acting as a conduit twixt the two, being an enabler for dialogue between the fans and the club / board, allowing fans to challenge back on the responses given.  It is my opinion that, one way or another, Dave became too close to the club and is no longer the 'go-between', but now the unfortunate mouthpiece.  It's disappointing that he's stumbled into the 'Yes Man' role.

 

Am I disappointed to see Dave remove himself from the forum?  Damn right I am.  He's done some good things for a lot of people over the years.

Do I feel it is right that Dave remove himself from the forum?  Absolutely not.  Let's not forget that this is not a voluntary role - Dave is paid and employed by the club. I've written a fair few job descriptions in my time, and as an employee, I'd like to think that within Dave's job description as 'Fans Liaison Officer', one of his Key Accountabilities would be to engage with the largest online presence of supporters.  It is wrong that he will no longer be satisfying what should be one of the most essential elements of the role.

Yes, we can still phone, email or meet Dave, but one very quick and easy form of contact has now been removed, and it is to the detriment of the club and to Dave's role.

Your 3rd paragraph makes no sense at all. Is he a "Yes" man for BS or portraying his own opinions? You can't have it both ways.

[ChippenhamRed]

To be fair to DaveL, if I had to answer some of the questions asked on the Q&A I'd have lost the will to live years ago.  The one just asked about a lost ticket being a particularly good example.

[phantom]

Phantom abuse, phantom ultras, phantom sinister right wing groups, phantom credibility, phantom presence on the forum.

Too many phantoms. Time to end all this -

time for...

GHOSTBUSTERS!

 

 

[Somerset Red]

Come on Dave, time to come clean........

 

Who's decision was this, yours or Bristol Sport?

 

We're intrigued.

[CotswoldRed]

Come on Dave, time to come clean........

 

Who's decision was this, yours or Bristol Sport?

 

We're intrigued.

I'm sure Dave's recent experience has become a less than pleasant one, whatever the rights and wrongs.

 

This is at a time when BS are clearly pushing through their own agenda and could probably do without the annoyance of a vocal fan opinion.  They know what they want to achieve and fan culture/wishes/history are an inconvenient pain in the arse.

 

It probably suits both of them right now.

 

Of course, they'll now be able to portray this development as the fault of fans, though will point to a minority being responsible so as not to tar us all.

 

Win-win I would say. 

 

I've met many marketing men, wannabe corporate managers and politicians in my time.  The last few week's events have many of the same hallmarks.

[Red-Robbo]

It's a huge shame Dave has made this move. If you work in a customer liaison role in any organisation - especially somewhere people feel as passionate about and identified with as a football club - you have to take the brickbats. People on here have called me all sorts, you have to suck it up and shrug it off. it's only words, and to my knowledge nothing directed as DL himself was all that harsh.

 

As more and more people use the internet to communicate, the club is totally missing a trick by not having a presence on this, BCFC's largest fan forum. If it needs to communicate strategy, crucial information, timings, this is a better place to do so then emails or via the mess of the official site.

 

Now to my view (FWIW) of the Bristol Sport griping that has probably driven Dave off. I think with a successful team, improving balance sheet and stadium rebuild under way, a lot of the moaning is just because people can no longer have a go at the manager or players, so they fixate on peripheral issues.

 

 

Let's examine some of the moans:

 

1) The BS logo on the shirt looks like a fanny: Er, if you think that you've been with some very unusual women - or none at all!

 

2) The club shop is rebranded Bristol Sport. So it can sell to the rugby crowd. This is a good thing. More income from AG = a good thing.

 

3) there are minute amounts of blue around the ground. Oh FFS. It's overwhelmingly red.

 

4) Some BS bloke tweeted that the atmosphere for the Donny game was poor. Well it was - he spake the truth. He didn't add "because City fans are so shyte" or anything. It was just an observation. The admin people, like the manager and players want as good an atmosphere as possible for the team to be successful, and to get bums on seats.

 

5) Bubblegate: A non-issue. People got what they wanted. Some club employees suggested the bubble machine was coming so they were either out of the decision-making loop or the club's hierarchy saw the fan response and changed its mind. Which is what people want surely? For the "suits" to take fan feeling into account. The club asked Wewst Ham for specifications before nixing the idea as that's probably a kinder way od saying no then saying "stick it up your cockney arses"! Some City fans I know actually wanted to see the bubble machine, incidentally.

 

6) The scarfs said Bristol Sport as well as Bristol City: Get over it. If they'd been donated by Sainsburys or DAS or Jeff's Corner shop they'd probably say that as well as Bristol City. The fact is, they were free. When was the last time you got something of reasonable quality free?

 

7) The ultra flag. A mistake by the club, based on a hillariously over-sensitive reading of the world ultra. Daft and annoying, but as the flag bearer himself says, "it's only a flag". Hopefully, with the glare of TV cameras gone this can be sorted by dialogue between fans and club and we won't see certain words fall victim to the thought crime police.

 

8) The singing section and unreserved seating. Even fans who sit in quieter parts of the ground appreciate the noise and colour the trad EE brought to the ground. Again, as above, this is something that can be sorted out by dialogue. Adopting a battle stance towards the club's management isn't going to aid that. All fans, and no doubt Steves Cotterill and Lansdown want a new stadium, not a new library.

 

9) The stadium design is a bit bowl-like. Ooh, ark at Mr Grand Designs!

 

In my view, only points 7 to a lesser and 8 to a greater are even worthy of discussion. Everything else is pointleess peripheral issue griping.

 

As for those threatening never to come to City again, have some of these: :handbags: :handbags:

[Red Exile]

Very well put. 

[Antman]

It's a huge shame Dave has made this move. If you work in a customer liaison role in any organisation - especially somewhere people feel as passionate about and identified with as a football club - you have to take the brickbats. People on here have called me all sorts, you have to suck it up and shrug it off. it's only words, and to my knowledge nothing directed as DL himself was all that harsh.

 

As more and more people use the internet to communicate, the club is totally missing a trick by not having a presence on this, BCFC's largest fan forum. If it needs to communicate strategy, crucial information, timings, this is a better place to do so then emails or via the mess of the official site.

 

Now to my view (FWIW) of the Bristol Sport griping that has probably driven Dave off. I think with a successful team, improving balance sheet and stadium rebuild under way, a lot of the moaning is just because people can no longer have a go at the manager or players, so they fixate on peripheral issues.

 

 

Let's examine some of the moans:

 

1) The BS logo on the shirt looks like a fanny: Er, if you think that you've been with some very unusual women - or none at all!

 

2) The club shop is rebranded Bristol Sport. So it can sell to the rugby crowd. This is a good thing. More income from AG = a good thing.

 

3) there are minute amounts of blue around the ground. Oh FFS. It's overwhelmingly red.

 

4) Some BS bloke tweeted that the atmosphere for the Donny game was poor. Well it was - he spake the truth. He didn't add "because City fans are so shyte" or anything. It was just an observation. The admin people, like the manager and players want as good an atmosphere as possible for the team to be successful, and to get bums on seats.

 

5) Bubblegate: A non-issue. People got what they wanted. Some club employees suggested the bubble machine was coming so they were either out of the decision-making loop or the club's hierarchy saw the fan response and changed its mind. Which is what people want surely? For the "suits" to take fan feeling into account. The club asked Wewst Ham for specifications before nixing the idea as that's probably a kinder way od saying no then saying "stick it up your cockney arses"! Some City fans I know actually wanted to see the bubble machine, incidentally.

 

6) The scarfs said Bristol Sport as well as Bristol City: Get over it. If they'd been donated by Sainsburys or DAS or Jeff's Corner shop they'd probably say that as well as Bristol City. The fact is, they were free. When was the last time you got something of reasonable quality free?

 

7) The ultra flag. A mistake by the club, based on a hillariously over-sensitive reading of the world ultra. Daft and annoying, but as the flag bearer himself says, "it's only a flag". Hopefully, with the glare of TV cameras gone this can be sorted by dialogue between fans and club and we won't see certain words fall victim to the thought crime police.

 

8) The singing section and unreserved seating. Even fans who sit in quieter parts of the ground appreciate the noise and colour the trad EE brought to the ground. Again, as above, this is something that can be sorted out by dialogue. Adopting a battle stance towards the club's management isn't going to aid that. All fans, and no doubt Steves Cotterill and Lansdown want a new stadium, not a new library.

 

9) The stadium design is a bit bowl-like. Ooh, ark at Mr Grand Designs!

 

In my view, only points 7 to a lesser and 8 to a greater are even worthy of discussion. Everything else is pointleess peripheral issue griping.

 

As for those threatening never to come to City again, have some of these: :handbags: :handbags:

very well said, and what tops this, is that we're in one of our best seasons for A LONG TIME, and we're obscuring the chance to celebrate that with these squabbles.

[WhistleHappy]

Come on Dave, time to come clean........

 

Who's decision was this, yours or Bristol Sport?

 

We're intrigued.

As always the answer I suspect lies in the DetaiL

DetaLe

DetelL

DL tell.

(its never a good idea to shoot the messenger... now we're gonna know nothing ... Doh!)

[WTMS]

It's a huge shame Dave has made this move. If you work in a customer liaison role in any organisation - especially somewhere people feel as passionate about and identified with as a football club - you have to take the brickbats:

You have failed to acknowledge why the Q&A was created.

Primarily the Q&A existed because of an ongoing concern regarding the way the club communicates with sections of support, and dissatisfaction with what was the fans Parliament.

Win, lose, draw, get relegated it is the same theme now, and to the some of types on this forum who are never seen near consultations, shaking buckets, meeting the club face to face, or do not actually attend matches [you know who you are] it does not make you anti City pointing it out.

It was felt that post Eastend a genuine opportunity had been missed, and if the FC had utilised a different means of communication proactively i.e Otib / websites more would have been achieved within that stand.

A hope was that instead of tucking away ideas, questions etc on WTMS/Ziderheads the more populous, well used and public would result in more transparency, and more positive outcomes.

What has transpired is similar to what has occurred before on other forums over years. Lines of questioning have received answers that are factually incorrect, evasive, more questions follow the club liaison leaves the forum.

Its a pity but it is the club liaison throwing away an opportunity, or being told to leave. The Q&A is modded, there have according to mods have been no reports of abuse, the opportunity of using a modded Q&A is still there.

Apologies for the rushed post if out of context but must dash ..

[Red-Robbo]

You have failed to acknowledge why the Q&A was created.

Primarily the Q&A existed because of an ongoing concern regarding the way the club communicates with sections of support, and dissatisfaction with what was the fans Parliament.

Win, lose, draw, get relegated it is the same theme now, and to the some of types on this forum who are never seen near consultations, shaking buckets, meeting the club face to face, or do not actually attend matches [you know who you are] it does not make you anti City pointing it out.

It was felt that post Eastend a genuine opportunity had been missed, and if the FC had utilised a different means of communication proactively i.e Otib / websites more would have been achieved within that stand.

A hope was that instead of tucking away ideas, questions etc on WTMS/Ziderheads the more populous, well used and public would result in more transparency, and more positive outcomes.

What has transpired is similar to what has occurred before on other forums over years. Lines of questioning have received answers that are factually incorrect, evasive, more questions follow the club liaison leaves the forum.

Its a pity but it is the club liaison throwing away an opportunity, or being told to leave. The Q&A is modded, there have according to mods have been no reports of abuse, the opportunity of using a modded Q&A is still there.

Apologies for the rushed post if out of context but must dash ..

I'd agree with all that, WTMS.

Consultation is the way forward. That's as true for the club as we fans.

[Kid in the Riot]