Sod New Liverpool Assistant Manager

[spudski]

No progress to my eyes nor reason to believe it would have changed. He'd lost a significant majority of fans' support and drove a number away. I don't see that there was any coming back for him in those circumstances nor for us.

And I think that's half the problem fella....there are many fans who rock up to the Gate, watch the game and see the result....and that's it....they have no interest or idea in why things are happening that way. They take no interest in understanding situations at the Club. They don't take circumstances into consideration. And also have no idea of what is going on 'behind the scenes'. SoD by many, is purely judged on results....and not what he 'developed' at the Club.

 

And because of his failure to get results straight away....he will always be deemed a 'Rubbish' Coach by many City fans.

 

These fans say he's rubbish based on his short tenure here...yet those within the game, who work in it 24/7, speak highly of him. He's employed by the FA and Liverpool after his spell here...and yet those same fans, base their judgement on him purely by his short tenure here and the fact they didn't like his 'manner' in front of a mic. I find it astounding that those fans think they know more about a football coach, than those that work in the game everyday...especially those that are high up in the game.

 

 

I suppose after this thread eventually dies we will have another one to 'look forward to' , he says grinding his teeth, everytime the bloke is in the news?

Why is it people come on threads and complain about them...? If it doesn't interest them....why read? This topic interests some....seven pages will tell you that.

 

I'm not interested in the Rovers thread....many are....I just don't bother reading it....simples.

 

I'm sure when the season gets underway there will be more topics to talk about.

[Cunnyfunt]

Do you think Wenger was a failure at arsenal from 2005-2014?

According to Jose....Yes.

[Phileas Fogg]

And I think that's half the problem fella....there are many fans who rock up to the Gate, watch the game and see the result....and that's it....they have no interest or idea in why things are happening that way. They take no interest in understanding situations at the Club. They don't take circumstances into consideration. And also have no idea of what is going on 'behind the scenes'. SoD by many, is purely judged on results....and not what he 'developed' at the Club.

And because of his failure to get results straight away....he will always be deemed a 'Rubbish' Coach by many City fans.

These fans say he's rubbish based on his short tenure here...yet those within the game, who work in it 24/7, speak highly of him. He's employed by the FA and Liverpool after his spell here...and yet those same fans, base their judgement on him purely by his short tenure here and the fact they didn't like his 'manner' in front of a mic. I find it astounding that those fans think they know more about a football coach, than those that work in the game everyday...especially those that are high up in the game.

Why is it people come on threads and complain about them...? If it doesn't interest them....why read? This topic interests some....seven pages will tell you that.

I'm not interested in the Rovers thread....many are....I just don't bother reading it....simples.

I'm sure when the season gets underway there will be more topics to talk about.

I agree Spudski, whilst he went at the right time he was here at a difficult point and did lots of groundwork to make things easier for us now.

As I've said earlier in the thread, his media skills weren't the best - apart from his programme notes or the podcast - but I don't think he's a soundbite' guy really.

His comments after the rovers game, singling out the fans, were unwise and I didn't like them. I think they turned lots of fans against him actually.

I agree totally about there being more circumstantial considerations and people should look beyond results, unfortunately for SO'D, being able to give soundbite' type interviews is a prerequisite of a modern boss, especially with so much YouTube/Snapchat/Facebook instant content being used by clubs.

Wish him well at Liverpool, intrigued to see how it works out.

[Red-Robbo]

And I think that's half the problem fella....there are many fans who rock up to the Gate, watch the game and see the result....and that's it....they have no interest or idea in why things are happening that way. They take no interest in understanding situations at the Club. They don't take circumstances into consideration. And also have no idea of what is going on 'behind the scenes'. SoD by many, is purely judged on results....and not what he 'developed' at the Club.

And because of his failure to get results straight away....he will always be deemed a 'Rubbish' Coach by many City fans.

These fans say he's rubbish based on his short tenure here...yet those within the game, who work in it 24/7, speak highly of him. He's employed by the FA and Liverpool after his spell here...and yet those same fans, base their judgement on him purely by his short tenure here and the fact they didn't like his 'manner' in front of a mic. I find it astounding that those fans think they know more about a football coach, than those that work in the game everyday...especially those that are high up in the game.

A slightly patronising reply there to the majority of fans who "rock up" expecting to be entertained in return for parting with their money, but knowing you to be one of the good guys I expect that was unintentional.

At the risk of prolonging this debate for another 20 months, allow me to reply.

Football is a results business. You and SOD may not have realised that, but the rest of the fans and - thankfully - the board do.

I presume when Sean was interviewed, he promised he could do something about the parlous state Derek Mcinnes had left the club in. He almost certainly didn't say "I can improve the club, but it'll take me five years and we'll be relegated at least twice."

And there's the crux of it: results. He didn't go because of poor PR skills, or fall outs with Lansdown, or one comment after the JPT game; he went because of consistently poor results. He could have spoken Korean with a pronounced stutter and no-one would have cared had he delivered the goods.

And there are no real excuses: most managers take over when clubs are "in difficult circumstances" and clubs are always "in transition". Players come, players go. People retire or are injured. After a relegation that process is speeded up considerably. And ultimately, Steve Cotterill was able to take essentially the same side that SOD failed with, and succeed.

The one thing we might be able to agree on is that SOD continued the work Mcinnes started to put scouting, recruitment and youth development on a more professional level here. Not hard as it was piss-poor before.

But all that counts for nought if you send out a tactically naive, poorly coached and uninspired side who can't win games. If we'd had ended up a struggling L2 side with mounting debts watched by crowds of 6k what future our academy then? Who were we gonna attract in that scenario?

Because that is where we were heading.

And it matters not a jot what the FA or Brendan Rodgers thinks. It's not like they have a track record of never making mistakes, after all!

[sodburyred]

A slightly patronising reply there to the majority of fans who "rock up" expecting to be entertained in return for parting with their money, but knowing you to be one of the good guys I expect that was unintentional.

At the risk of prolonging this debate for another 20 months, allow me to reply.

Football is a results business. You and SOD may not have realised that, but the rest of the fans and - thankfully - the board do.

I presume when Sean was interviewed, he promised he could do something about the parlous state Derek Mcinnes had left the club in. He almost certainly didn't say "I can improve the club, but it'll take me five years and we'll be relegated at least twice."

And there's the crux of it: results. He didn't go because of poor PR skills, or fall outs with Lansdown, or one comment after the JPT game; he went because of consistently poor results. He could have spoken Korean with a pronounced stutter and no-one would have cared had he delivered the goods.

And there are no real excuses: most managers take over when clubs are "in difficult circumstances" and clubs are always "in transition". Players come, players go. People retire or are injured. After a relegation that process is speeded up considerably. And ultimately, Steve Cotterill was able to take essentially the same side that SOD failed with, and succeed.

The one thing we might be able to agree on is that SOD continued the work Mcinnes started to put scouting, recruitment and youth development on a more professional level here. Not hard as it was piss-poor before.

But all that counts for nought if you send out a tactically naive, poorly coached and uninspired side who can't win games. If we'd had ended up a struggling L2 side with mounting debts watched by crowds of 6k what future our academy then? Who were we gonna attract in that scenario?

Because that is where we were heading.

And it matters not a jot what the FA or Brendan Rodgers thinks. It's not like they have a track record of never making mistakes, after all!

 

Very well put.

[spudski]

A slightly patronising reply there to the majority of fans who "rock up" expecting to be entertained in return for parting with their money, but knowing you to be one of the good guys I expect that was unintentional.

At the risk of prolonging this debate for another 20 months, allow me to reply.

Football is a results business. You and SOD may not have realised that, but the rest of the fans and - thankfully - the board do.

I presume when Sean was interviewed, he promised he could do something about the parlous state Derek Mcinnes had left the club in. He almost certainly didn't say "I can improve the club, but it'll take me five years and we'll be relegated at least twice."

And there's the crux of it: results. He didn't go because of poor PR skills, or fall outs with Lansdown, or one comment after the JPT game; he went because of consistently poor results. He could have spoken Korean with a pronounced stutter and no-one would have cared had he delivered the goods.

And there are no real excuses: most managers take over when clubs are "in difficult circumstances" and clubs are always "in transition". Players come, players go. People retire or are injured. After a relegation that process is speeded up considerably. And ultimately, Steve Cotterill was able to take essentially the same side that SOD failed with, and succeed.

The one thing we might be able to agree on is that SOD continued the work Mcinnes started to put scouting, recruitment and youth development on a more professional level here. Not hard as it was piss-poor before.

But all that counts for nought if you send out a tactically naive, poorly coached and uninspired side who can't win games. If we'd had ended up a struggling L2 side with mounting debts watched by crowds of 6k what future our academy then? Who were we gonna attract in that scenario?

Because that is where we were heading.

And it matters not a jot what the FA or Brendan Rodgers thinks. It's not like they have a track record of never making mistakes, after all!

Nothing is meant to be patronising fella...sorry if that's how you feel...but it's true...not many fans who go to the games, take that much interest in, the 'Going's on at a Club'...or the 'deeper' side of the game. They see it purely as Entertainment, and a release from the grind of work, and a passionate hobby...not as a business... which it is, however much we don't like it.

 

I really can't take you serious mate....when you say, 'it matters not a jot what the FA or Rodgers thinks'....of course people make mistakes....but you are talking about the FA and Liverpool....two of the biggest establishments in Football....worth Millions...do you really think they would appoint useless people to take charge? You honestly think your opinion of SoD is from a better perspective than theirs....really....seriously?

 

And as for your comment...'I presume when Sean was interviewed, he promised he could do something about the parlous state Derek Mcinnes had left the club in. He almost certainly didn't say "I can improve the club, but it'll take me five years and we'll be relegated at least twice."....'

 

If you remember he did say words along those lines....that it would be a struggle, that the Club was in a state and that it would take time'.

 

You seem to forget....The board put in a plan, to change the whole structure of our Club, to make it sustainable in the future....a major difference to all the previous years, where we just threw money at a sinking ship. SoD had no money to work with, a bunch of losers on the books on high wages, and was expected to change the structure of the Club and build a successful team on his own. He was doing numerous jobs behind the scenes....working long hours. Changing many things at the club for the better. All the while trying to maintain a first team.

 

The Club needed to go through what it has to get to where it is now.

 

I really can't believe you think SC is some miracle worker....that it was his genius that saved us from relegation. He used the Loan system well, when he could, and turned the team around late in the season from March onwards. CIRCUMSTANCES changed for him, then with a better budget over the summer.... he and Burt were able to bring in decent players, after wages and funds had been released.

 

SC isn't a genius...as his previous track record will testify....he's done very well here, because of the different circumstances that have allowed him to do so.

 

The real test is to come....this season. He has a relatively stable Club to work with...lets see who he brings in and lets see how we do this season.

 

My biggest fear, is that he is looking at players with Championship experience, who are still young....they come at a price....and I really don't think we can compete budget wise with others in this league. I hope he hasn't dismissed players who have potential, but not so much experience at this level...Will Grigg for example.

The majority of players with Championship experience are on massive wages...seriously stupid amounts...it's going to be a struggle to get these players.

 

As for your Scenario about relegation to League 2....it didn't do Swansea any harm....go about running your Club properly, and not just relying on money and hoping a manager can fix you short term, and you can go far. You only have to look at Southampton to see how they lost their Academy pretty much, and then turned it around in a very short space of time.

 

If you want to get a better understanding of Circumstances at a Club, and how a board can screw a manager and Club over...and it's pretty close to home...look at the irony of what happened at Notts Forest between 2009 and 2012....all involving Pemberton, Burt, SoD and Cotterill....you couldn't make it up.

 

 

Very well put.

 

As a fellow Soderite, I'm embarrassed that you can't put up a good debate yourself, apart from 'he was rubbish'...and that you just troll on this thread and don't actually add anything positive....just throw away comments....c'mon use that noggin fella, unless all that Cider in the Oak or the Squire has pickled it  

[sodburyred]

Nothing is meant to be patronising fella...sorry if that's how you feel...but it's true...not many fans who go to the games, take that much interest in, the 'Going's on at a Club'...or the 'deeper' side of the game. They see it purely as Entertainment, and a release from the grind of work, and a passionate hobby...not as a business... which it is, however much we don't like it.

 

I really can't take you serious mate....when you say, 'it matters not a jot what the FA or Rodgers thinks'....of course people make mistakes....but you are talking about the FA and Liverpool....two of the biggest establishments in Football....worth Millions...do you really think they would appoint useless people to take charge? You honestly think your opinion of SoD is from a better perspective than theirs....really....seriously?

 

And as for your comment...'I presume when Sean was interviewed, he promised he could do something about the parlous state Derek Mcinnes had left the club in. He almost certainly didn't say "I can improve the club, but it'll take me five years and we'll be relegated at least twice."....'

 

If you remember he did say words along those lines....that it would be a struggle, that the Club was in a state and that it would take time'.

 

You seem to forget....The board put in a plan, to change the whole structure of our Club, to make it sustainable in the future....a major difference to all the previous years, where we just threw money at a sinking ship. SoD had no money to work with, a bunch of losers on the books on high wages, and was expected to change the structure of the Club and build a successful team on his own. He was doing numerous jobs behind the scenes....working long hours. Changing many things at the club for the better. All the while trying to maintain a first team.

 

The Club needed to go through what it has to get to where it is now.

 

I really can't believe you think SC is some miracle worker....that it was his genius that saved us from relegation. He used the Loan system well, when he could, and turned the team around late in the season from March onwards. CIRCUMSTANCES changed for him, then with a better budget over the summer.... he and Burt were able to bring in decent players, after wages and funds had been released.

 

SC isn't a genius...as his previous track record will testify....he's done very well here, because of the different circumstances that have allowed him to do so.

 

The real test is to come....this season. He has a relatively stable Club to work with...lets see who he brings in and lets see how we do this season.

 

My biggest fear, is that he is looking at players with Championship experience, who are still young....they come at a price....and I really don't think we can compete budget wise with others in this league. I hope he hasn't dismissed players who have potential, but not so much experience at this level...Will Grigg for example.

The majority of players with Championship experience are on massive wages...seriously stupid amounts...it's going to be a struggle to get these players.

 

As for your Scenario about relegation to League 2....it didn't do Swansea any harm....go about running your Club properly, and not just relying on money and hoping a manager can fix you short term, and you can go far. You only have to look at Southampton to see how they lost their Academy pretty much, and then turned it around in a very short space of time.

 

If you want to get a better understanding of Circumstances at a Club, and how a board can screw a manager and Club over...and it's pretty close to home...look at the irony of what happened at Notts Forest between 2009 and 2012....all involving Pemberton, Burt, SoD and Cotterill....you couldn't make it up.

 

 

 

As a fellow Soderite, I'm embarrassed that you can't put up a good debate yourself, apart from 'he was rubbish'...and that you just troll on this thread and don't actually add anything positive....just throw away comments....c'mon use that noggin fella, unless all that Cider in the Oak or the Squire has pickled it  

 

I've said my points on this many times in the last year on countless threads. I find it very repetitive and a pointless exercise as some peoples minds are not for changing.

 

I was one of a few who wanted McCinnes to stay as I understood he was trying to change things behind the scenes and felt he would of taken us down but rebuilt a good league 1 team. SOD came in with a good reputation and talked a lot of sence. We went down with a whimper but fine he'll build a solid team next year playing total football...How wrong was I.

 

His ideas were so outdated. He acted and talked like he was the only manager in the lower leagues who could get a team to play passing football. It's like he believed his own reputation. Getting completely outplayed at home to Crawley was a light bulb moment for me.

 

He had absolutely no plan B and a very questionable plan A tactics of pass it around the back to get our stats up whack it long into the channels and wait for JET to do something special.

 

He may well of been helping fulfil the new plans behind the scenes, but I'm sure if Coterill had been brought in at the same time he could of as well.... Any manager who comes in is usually given guidelines to follow. 

 

At the end of the day the manager is there to sort the team out and give it in the best chance of getting results. No matter what he was doing behind the scenes his main job is to get results. He obviously couldn't handle doing that so was rightfully replaced with someone who could. 

 

I think City will be his last managerial job in professional football. Under 19/21 teams is probably where he should be at or as assistant as he is now. 

 

I'm sorry if my points aren't as intellectual as yours, but I think my views will be the same as the vast majority. 

[spudski]

I've said my points on this many times in the last year on countless threads. I find it very repetitive and a pointless exercise as some peoples minds are not for changing.

 

I was one of a few who wanted McCinnes to stay as I understood he was trying to change things behind the scenes and felt he would of taken us down but rebuilt a good league 1 team. SOD came in with a good reputation and talked a lot of sence. We went down with a whimper but fine he'll build a solid team next year playing total football...How wrong was I.

 

His ideas were so outdated. He acted and talked like he was the only manager in the lower leagues who could get a team to play passing football. It's like he believed his own reputation. Getting completely outplayed at home to Crawley was a light bulb moment for me.

 

He had absolutely no plan B and a very questionable plan A tactics of pass it around the back to get our stats up whack it long into the channels and wait for JET to do something special.

 

He may well of been helping fulfil the new plans behind the scenes, but I'm sure if Coterill had been brought in at the same time he could of as well.... Any manager who comes in is usually given guidelines to follow. 

 

At the end of the day the manager is there to sort the team out and give it in the best chance of getting results. No matter what he was doing behind the scenes his main job is to get results. He obviously couldn't handle doing that so was rightfully replaced with someone who could. 

 

I think City will be his last managerial job in professional football. Under 19/21 teams is probably where he should be at or as assistant as he is now. 

 

I'm sorry if my points aren't as intellectual as yours, but I think my views will be the same as the vast majority. 

Fair play fella...My last comment was in jest, however....appreciate the well thought out response.

 

First things...SoD was never employed as a manager for us...he was head coach.

 

And it's nothing about intellect, it's just understanding circumstances and what was asked of him by the board.

True...results were poor in the first third of the season...but it was after wholesale changes.

Plus...look at the players he brought in. Speak to them if you get a chance....as they all say they learnt a lot under SoD and it went a long way to how they are playing now....it just took the period of time it has taken to get their....both under SoD and Cotts.

 

Both have done well for the Club, under different circumstances....both have improved the club...one has just achieved more on the pitch than the other....again....through circumstances.

 

And yes...as I have said all along... I agree that it was the right time for SoD to leave when he did, because his position was not good with the Club....but that doesn't mean he couldn't have done the same as SC, given time, and circumstances changing over the course of the season and pre season.

 

One of the reasons Rodgers has employed SoD, and the reason Our Club employed him, is because the man truly believes in his methods and those are the methods our club wanted instilled.

 

Yes, his game is less physical, about possession and making the right decisions...it was obvious for all to see, that we were struggling to adopt those tactics....often silly individual mistakes were made, and we panicked and 'hoofed' down the channel....that wasn't the directive of SoD though....players panicked and many of them took ages to adopt to their new roles. But speak to them.....they all say they understand better, and are better players for working under SoD...it's just taken time and for SC to continue the growth.

 

Fair play to the bloke, he doesn't shy away from tough jobs....the Liverpool gig is an even bigger implosion waiting to happen if not given time.

 

I guess we all see it differently....more black and white....those like me, who try to see the whole picture.

[JamesBCFC]

According to Jose....Yes.

i wasn't asking for Jose's opinion

[Ashtonboy]

Fair play fella...My last comment was in jest, however....appreciate the well thought out response.

 

First things...SoD was never employed as a manager for us...he was head coach.

 

And it's nothing about intellect, it's just understanding circumstances and what was asked of him by the board.

True...results were poor in the first third of the season...but it was after wholesale changes.

Plus...look at the players he brought in. Speak to them if you get a chance....as they all say they learnt a lot under SoD and it went a long way to how they are playing now....it just took the period of time it has taken to get their....both under SoD and Cotts.

 

Both have done well for the Club, under different circumstances....both have improved the club...one has just achieved more on the pitch than the other....again....through circumstances.

 

And yes...as I have said all along... I agree that it was the right time for SoD to leave when he did, because his position was not good with the Club....but that doesn't mean he couldn't have done the same as SC, given time, and circumstances changing over the course of the season and pre season.

 

One of the reasons Rodgers has employed SoD, and the reason Our Club employed him, is because the man truly believes in his methods and those are the methods our club wanted instilled.

 

Yes, his game is less physical, about possession and making the right decisions...it was obvious for all to see, that we were struggling to adopt those tactics....often silly individual mistakes were made, and we panicked and 'hoofed' down the channel....that wasn't the directive of SoD though....players panicked and many of them took ages to adopt to their new roles. But speak to them.....they all say they understand better, and are better players for working under SoD...it's just taken time and for SC to continue the growth.

 

Fair play to the bloke, he doesn't shy away from tough jobs....the Liverpool gig is an even bigger implosion waiting to happen if not given time.

 

I guess we all see it differently....more black and white....those like me, who try to see the whole picture.

Hi Spudski. You've stated many times that SOD was appointed coach and not manager, and yet go on to reaffirm that he was making so much progress behind the scenes in changing the culture etc of the club, with SC now enjoying these benefits.

You really can't have it both ways, he was either appointed as Coach with very limited responsibilities or he was manager with responsibilities reaching into all areas that required change.

Have I missed something in your argument "fella" :laugh: 

[!james]

FAO Spudski:

 

[spudski]

Hi Spudski. You've stated many times that SOD was appointed coach and not manager, and yet go on to reaffirm that he was making so much progress behind the scenes in changing the culture etc of the club, with SC now enjoying these benefits.

You really can't have it both ways, he was either appointed as Coach with very limited responsibilities or he was manager with responsibilities reaching into all areas that required change.

Have I missed something in your argument "fella"

Hello Ashtonboy... I do believe you have missed something in my argument.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21010274

 

Why would a coach have 'limited responsibilities'? Do you think each coach at a football club has rules set in stone?

He was given a pre requisite by the board to work to their remit.

They installed Burt from Head Scout to Director of Football, to help with parts of the job a 'Manager' would normally do.

This enabled SoD to work with Pemberton on other sides of the Club.

 

Does that make sense now?

 

 

FAO Spudski:

 

Well hi James :-)

 

Patronising you say....nah...let me explain...

 

When someone is treating you in a patronising or condescending way, it's natural to feel annoyed or angry, and want to lash out at that person. This may provide some relief in the short term, but it isn't a good long-term solution, and may lead to further conflict.

 

Let me highlight some Instruction for you...

 

Stay calm when confronting the person who is patronising you. This will make it more likely that he will listen to you. " If emotions are running high, take a few minutes to relax beforehand, Take a deep breath and slowly count to 10.

 

Highlight the patronising behavior using specific examples. For example, you might say something like, "Spudski...I feel embarrassed when you tease me about my lack of knowledge when it comes to how a football Club works." This is an effective way to communicate the problem, without placing blame on the other person, which could lead to him becoming defensive. Ask for the patronizing behavior to stop.

 

Ask the patronising person what he means when he makes a patronising comment. You see patronising behavior is often masked as kindness. For example, a patronising person in the workplace might call you "honey" or "sweetheart," implying that you are not their intellectual or professional equal. In this instance, you might say something like, "I'm curious to know why you call me 'honey.'" A direct confrontation will make him stop and think about what he has said, and may force him to rethink the way he speaks to you.

 

Set clear personal boundaries with the other person. When you make it clear what you will and will not put up with, you demand respect. Let the other person know what will happen if he continues to treat you in a patronising manner. For example, you might say something like, "Spud...If you continue to tease me about my lack of knowledge, we won't be able to spend time together."

 

There you go Sweetcheeks....I've responded in the most patronising way I could think of....it again is a slow day, and your well thought out debate and post deserved the response it truly gets.

 

Tongue firmly in cheek....      

 

[!james]

Stopped reading after hi fella! :-)

[spudski]

Stopped reading after hi fella! :-)

I'm surprised you got that far tbh...carry on with the dot to dot and crayons ;-)

[Ashtonboy]

Hello Ashtonboy... I do believe you have missed something in my argument.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21010274

 

Why would a coach have 'limited responsibilities'? Do you think each coach at a football club has rules set in stone?

He was given a pre requisite by the board to work to their remit.

They installed Burt from Head Scout to Director of Football, to help with parts of the job a 'Manager' would normally do.

This enabled SoD to work with Pemberton on other sides of the Club.

 

Does that make sense now?

 

 

Well hi James :-)

 

Patronising you say....nah...let me explain...

 

When someone is treating you in a patronising or condescending way, it's natural to feel annoyed or angry, and want to lash out at that person. This may provide some relief in the short term, but it isn't a good long-term solution, and may lead to further conflict.

 

Let me highlight some Instruction for you...

 

Stay calm when confronting the person who is patronising you. This will make it more likely that he will listen to you. " If emotions are running high, take a few minutes to relax beforehand, Take a deep breath and slowly count to 10.

 

Highlight the patronising behavior using specific examples. For example, you might say something like, "Spudski...I feel embarrassed when you tease me about my lack of knowledge when it comes to how a football Club works." This is an effective way to communicate the problem, without placing blame on the other person, which could lead to him becoming defensive. Ask for the patronizing behavior to stop.

 

Ask the patronising person what he means when he makes a patronising comment. You see patronising behavior is often masked as kindness. For example, a patronising person in the workplace might call you "honey" or "sweetheart," implying that you are not their intellectual or professional equal. In this instance, you might say something like, "I'm curious to know why you call me 'honey.'" A direct confrontation will make him stop and think about what he has said, and may force him to rethink the way he speaks to you.

 

Set clear personal boundaries with the other person. When you make it clear what you will and will not put up with, you demand respect. Let the other person know what will happen if he continues to treat you in a patronising manner. For example, you might say something like, "Spud...If you continue to tease me about my lack of knowledge, we won't be able to spend time together."

 

There you go Sweetcheeks....I've responded in the most patronising way I could think of....it again is a slow day, and your well thought out debate and post deserved the response it truly gets.

 

Tongue firmly in cheek....      

 

No, thats your weakest response to date. To keep on insisting that he was head coach and not manager, you must be very clear in your own mind as to the split in responsibilities for each role.

In your mind, what did he actually achieve behind the scenes (he achieved bugger all that was visible), that we, the club, and SC are now so benefiting from?

[spudski]

No, thats your weakest response to date. To keep on insisting that he was head coach and not manager, you must be very clear in your own mind as to the split in responsibilities for each role.

In your mind, what did he actually achieve behind the scenes (he achieved bugger all that was visible), that we, the club, and SC are now so benefiting from?

I can't get anymore clearer than that...read the BCFC website...he was employed as Head Coach.

[!james]

I'm surprised you got that far tbh...carry on with the dot to dot and crayons ;-)

I'm off to read The Blizzard and more Jonathan Wilson books so I can come back and impress you :-)

[Red-Robbo]

Nothing is meant to be patronising fella...sorry if that's how you feel...but it's true...not many fans who go to the games, take that much interest in, the 'Going's on at a Club'...or the 'deeper' side of the game. They see it purely as Entertainment, and a release from the grind of work, and a passionate hobby...not as a business... which it is, however much we don't like it.

I really can't take you serious mate....when you say, 'it matters not a jot what the FA or Rodgers thinks'....of course people make mistakes....but you are talking about the FA and Liverpool....two of the biggest establishments in Football....worth Millions...do you really think they would appoint useless people to take charge? You honestly think your opinion of SoD is from a better perspective than theirs....really....seriously?

And as for your comment...'I presume when Sean was interviewed, he promised he could do something about the parlous state Derek Mcinnes had left the club in. He almost certainly didn't say "I can improve the club, but it'll take me five years and we'll be relegated at least twice."....'

If you remember he did say words along those lines....that it would be a struggle, that the Club was in a state and that it would take time'.

You seem to forget....The board put in a plan, to change the whole structure of our Club, to make it sustainable in the future....a major difference to all the previous years, where we just threw money at a sinking ship. SoD had no money to work with, a bunch of losers on the books on high wages, and was expected to change the structure of the Club and build a successful team on his own. He was doing numerous jobs behind the scenes....working long hours. Changing many things at the club for the better. All the while trying to maintain a first team.

The Club needed to go through what it has to get to where it is now.

I really can't believe you think SC is some miracle worker....that it was his genius that saved us from relegation. He used the Loan system well, when he could, and turned the team around late in the season from March onwards. CIRCUMSTANCES changed for him, then with a better budget over the summer.... he and Burt were able to bring in decent players, after wages and funds had been released.

SC isn't a genius...as his previous track record will testify....he's done very well here, because of the different circumstances that have allowed him to do so.

The real test is to come....this season. He has a relatively stable Club to work with...lets see who he brings in and lets see how we do this season.

My biggest fear, is that he is looking at players with Championship experience, who are still young....they come at a price....and I really don't think we can compete budget wise with others in this league. I hope he hasn't dismissed players who have potential, but not so much experience at this level...Will Grigg for example.

The majority of players with Championship experience are on massive wages...seriously stupid amounts...it's going to be a struggle to get these players.

As for your Scenario about relegation to League 2....it didn't do Swansea any harm....go about running your Club properly, and not just relying on money and hoping a manager can fix you short term, and you can go far. You only have to look at Southampton to see how they lost their Academy pretty much, and then turned it around in a very short space of time.

If you want to get a better understanding of Circumstances at a Club, and how a board can screw a manager and Club over...and it's pretty close to home...look at the irony of what happened at Notts Forest between 2009 and 2012....all involving Pemberton, Burt, SoD and Cotterill....you couldn't make it up.

:

But it really doesn't matter what other people think. They have bought into SOD's reputation before he came here. A reputation which I have explained in previous posts is as no slouch, but is totally overblown every time you describe it.

What we all saw at Ashton Gate - but you didn't apparently - was gaping holes being blown in this reputation as a "great coach": Players went backward in their abilities. They couldn't even trap the ball successfully half the time! There was no organisation - especially in defence. We continually sat too deep

No one seemed able to run with the flaming ball. No one knew what they were doing at set pieces. We didn't even know how to take throw ins. It was a shambles

Whatever "good work" Sean was doing behind the scenes - work which you acknowledge the board sanctioned. Mcinnes began, and Keith Burt and others are at least in part responsible for - he did very very bad work on his main job. Getting the first team to win games.

And as I've said; nearly every manager inherits a team of "losers". Danny Wilson did; Millen did; Mcinnes.... the list goes on.

SOD operated on a.bigger budget then many rival manager/head coaches and with players who were better in many cases. Other commentators and fans were baffled as to why we were doing so poorly.

But anyone sitting at AG who had watched us string together 12 pointless passes just 10 yards in front of our box before - inevitably - losing possession; Or punting continuous long hopeful balls up at the back of a short striker's head.- inevitably losing possession again; anyone who saw that game after game will be in no doubt as to why we were rooted to the bottom.

SOD talked a great game, but he didn't deliver.

He'd lost his mojo and lost his way and got in a tissy and couldn't see the wood for the trees.

I hope for Liverpool's sake that he has had a long think about his time here and remembered how to coach.

[Ashtonboy]

I can't get anymore clearer than that...read the BCFC website...he was employed as Head Coach.

What did he achieve behind the scenes? I can't be any clearer than that!

[spudski]

What did he achieve behind the scenes? I can't be any clearer than that!

Many things....establishing a way of working between each person, so each person knew their responsibility at the Club and how it was going to be achieved.

Better communication between each department. Getting rid of a lot of dead wood. Upsetting a lot of people that were just going through the motions.

Trying to establish a way of getting the Academy and first team to work as one. Better liason and communication between board and Club staff.

Setting out a way of the whole Club working as one, rather than against each other. So each department knows their responsibilities.

Establishing a recruitment policy with Burt and the Development dept.

To provide a platform that everyone could work from to achieve the same goal...a togetherness.

A framework for the coaches to work within.

 

Our club was a shambles internally....and it had been for years. Previous managers I have spoken too, often said they were surprised how far City had gone as it was run by 'Amateurs' and it was SL's money that was keeping it afloat.

 

Have you noticed there is a togetherness now at the Club....the players and all at the Club working together as one. The players brought in by Burt, SoD and Burt with SC are not just decent players...but decent people....people who won't upset the apple cart. This philosophy just didn't happen.

 

Much more as well on the playing side and technical side...that's just a summary.

[Ashtonboy]

Many things....establishing a way of working between each person, so each person knew their responsibility at the Club and how it was going to be achieved.

Better communication between each department. Getting rid of a lot of dead wood. Upsetting a lot of people that were just going through the motions.

Trying to establish a way of getting the Academy and first team to work as one. Better liason and communication between board and Club staff.

Setting out a way of the whole Club working as one, rather than against each other. So each department knows their responsibilities.

Establishing a recruitment policy with Burt and the Development dept.

To provide a platform that everyone could work from to achieve the same goal...a togetherness.

A framework for the coaches to work within.

 

Our club was a shambles internally....and it had been for years. Previous managers I have spoken too, often said they were surprised how far City had gone as it was run by 'Amateurs' and it was SL's money that was keeping it afloat.

 

Have you noticed there is a togetherness now at the Club....the players and all at the Club working together as one. The players brought in by Burt, SoD and Burt with SC are not just decent players...but decent people....people who won't upset the apple cart. This philosophy just didn't happen.

 

Much more as well on the playing side and technical side...that's just a summary.

Ha ha you've just quoted straight from a generic job specification! There's NO evidence that SOD achieved any of this.I now think that the effort your  putting into supporting SOD is now so ridiculous, your original argument has lost all worthiness. However, I do applaud your loyalty and lets hope for a great season to come.

[spudski]

Ha ha you've just quoted straight from a generic job specification! There's NO evidence that SOD achieved any of this.I now think that the effort your  putting into supporting SOD is now so ridiculous, your original argument has lost all worthiness. However, I do applaud your loyalty and lets hope for a great season to come.

Well I can only give a reply to what you've asked and based on what I know.  I've never seen a generic job specification like that.

However....How would I supply evidence, unless I took you around the Club and you lived and breathed it 24/7, and you were able to compare it to how it was before?

 

I don't come on here and waste my time for the hell of it....I could say absolutely nothing. It's not about being loyal or preferring one manager over the other.

I do it, because I know what he did....and feel it unjust, that so many people don't know. Just trying to make it right.

It's no skin off my nose....but like you say....fingers crossed to another great season and lets see if we can keep building.

[archie andrews]

brad jones just turnt us down apparently

aint he past it anyway?

[Monkeh]

Head coach or manager it doesn't make a joy of difference he was here to get results he didn't and got sacked

Football was dire

Fans were staying away in droves

We were heading for a second relegation under him

Yet some people just can't admit they are wrong and insult 90% of the fans who actually went and saw what was unfolding

You are worse then a gas head, they keep stating things and start to believe the absolute shit that comes out of their mouths

Worst manager head coach this club has ever had that can not be disputed as the majority back it

[spudski]

Head coach or manager it doesn't make a joy of difference he was here to get results he didn't and got sacked

Football was dire

Fans were staying away in droves

We were heading for a second relegation under him

Yet some people just can't admit they are wrong and insult 90% of the fans who actually went and saw what was unfolding

You are worse then a gas head, they keep stating things and start to believe the absolute shit that comes out of their mouths

Worst manager head coach this club has ever had that can not be disputed as the majority back it

There was a majority in Germany that thought Hitler was right...

There was a majority that put many a Political Party in charge....your reasoning is that of 'I'm right cos my Dad's bigger than yours'....get real fella.

SoD wasn't just here to get results...he was employed to implement a plan of action requested by the board.

The longer you go about leaving your head in the sand and not realising that, the sillier you look mate.

If you actually read the posts correctly, you will see that people who side with SoD, agree he went at the right time and results up until he left weren't ideal.

So I really don't understand your statement...and admit what about being wrong?

You're very odd...is this a game of one upmanship? sorry didn't see the remit....