Cotts now under pressure??

[Major Isewater]

47 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

We cannot make any decision about the manager based on loyalty, only what is best for the club.

People talk about Cotterill's achievements last year as if he did it out of the kindness of his heart. At the end of the day, he was hired to do a job, did it very well, and was paid handsomely for it. All credit to him for last year, but it CANNOT be allowed to cloud our judgement of the here and now - that could be fatal.

That said, I would stick with him. The reaction to yesterday's performance has been similar to Fulham, which we followed up with a clean sheet and a win, a draw away from home and a good draw against the league leaders. Broadly speaking this team is still performing well, we are not losing week in week out and we aren't even in the relegation places.

Often our failure to win has been identified as our inability to take chances. That's a failure of individuals on the pitch not the management and wouldn't be fixed by sacking Cotterill. He has set up the team to create goal scoring opportunities and been let down by poor finishing.

Is it Cotterill who plays players who can't take their chances ? Who did n't sign players that can take their chances ? That sets the team up ? 

Is it all Cotts fault ? Of course not but it is his job to work with the tools the club provide him with .

I like Cotts but if we are bottom at the end of november i would suggest that he spends Christmas with his family this year.

Lets hope this is a Blip and we destroy Blackburn .

 

[ChippenhamRed]

4 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

Is it Cotterill who plays players who can't take their chances ? Who did n't sign players that can take their chances ? That sets the team up ? 

Is it all Cotts fault ? Of course not but it is his job to work with the tools the club provide him with .

I like Cotts but if we are bottom at the end of november i would suggest that he spends Christmas with his family this year.

Lets hope this is a Blip and we destroy Blackburn .

 

Fair point - I guess Cotterill does have to take some blame for failure to convert chances based on the recruitment of those players in the first place. Which again brings us back to the disastrous summer, which again Cotterill must take some blame for, but how much of it was his fault, we don't really know.

[Major Isewater]

The relationship , manager / club is like the relationship salesperson/company they can only work within the frame work provided.

If the company is not at the cutting edge , sales can be lost to better organisations .

A good salesperson will however still make sales but ultimately the best salespeople will be headhunted by the best companies .

Where am i going with all this ?wish i bloody knew ! 

Just to say that these relations are symbiotic and no one is totally at fault .

Results are , however , ultimately what count .

 

 

[Son of Fred]

15 hours ago, Roger Red Hat said:

Let's have everybody's suggestions for SC's replacement please.

The ghost of Tommy Cooper,ably assisted by the guiding spirit hand of Victorian music hall favorite Dan Leno,appearing as head coach and Mother Goose..........much of the current stress is at the feet of the Landsdowns re;policy for the transfer window debacle. Heads at that stage were firmly in the sand.

[Mighty Squirrel Kingdom]

1 hour ago, Major Isewater said:

Is it Cotterill who plays players who can't take their chances ? Who did n't sign players that can take their chances ? That sets the team up ? 

Is it all Cotts fault ? Of course not but it is his job to work with the tools the club provide him with .

I like Cotts but if we are bottom at the end of november i would suggest that he spends Christmas with his family this year.

Lets hope this is a Blip and we destroy Blackburn .

 

It's mathematically impossible for us to be bottom at the end of this month. Even if Bolton win tomorrow evening the bottom three would stay exactly the same.

[ChippenhamRed]

3 minutes ago, Mighty Squirrel Kingdom said:

It's mathematically impossible for us to be bottom at the end of this month. Even if Bolton win tomorrow evening the bottom three would stay exactly the same.

I guess that means Mrs Cotterill will be slicing up the turkey then, according to the Major's theory.

[cottsciderarmy]

6 hours ago, Jonbristol said:

You actually think lansdown would pay the ridiculous wages that redknapp would demand, plus give him the ridiculous money he spends at every club he seems to ever manage nowadays? I can't see it. As for sherwood, yes he did a decent job keeping them up but this season he made some dreadful decisions. Made villa a much worse side than the one he took over. The signings they made were diabolical. You look at cotts, he has made some very good signings. And he won us the league last year. I think we should be doing a little better but am I wrong to think we should show some loyalty to him? 

Think you're being very harsh on Sherwood, it was the chairman who decided to sell Villa's best 3 players at the end of last season and Sherwood had no say in the matter. After that it was always going to be an uphill battle. Where chairman's get in the way of the managers job it becomes impossible for the manager, sadly that is what Sherwood had at Villa.

[RED4LIFE]

I don't think that SC will be handed his P45 anytime soon unless we produce performances like yesterdays over a period of 4-5 games. 

If we perform like that for a sustained period of time then he will be out of the door quicker than a vegetarian at Grillstock, regardless whether he did well last season or the summers shambolic transfer window wasn't his fault. 

[cottsciderarmy]

Realistically it looks like any 3 of 9 will go down this season.

Forest, Leeds, Preston, MK Dons, Us, Charlton, Huddersfield, Rotherham, and Bolton.

However Leeds, and Forest should have the clout to get out the mess, so that realistically leaves 3 from 7.

What is worrying is Preston and MK Dons were beneath us last season but both seem to be coping better than us and I'm far from convinced we will finish ahead of them this season. That potentially leaves us in a 5 way tie, of which we've already lost to Rotherham, only drawn to Bolton who are the only team who actually look booked for relegation, so in many ways I see it 2 from 4 !

I personally think Huddersfield and Bolton will go down, but I think it's between us Rotherham and Charlton for the 3rd spot and I worry about that, as it won't be easy.

As much as I like Cotts, I wonder if he's run out of ideas and is too predictable. I hate how we look bloody good on TV but yesterday was toothless ! We are far too inconsistent and no one seems to know why.

I just feel, a change in personal could improve things and secure our position in this league. My worry is even if Cotts keeps us up this year, I can't see him attracting the quality to improve us next season, so that in my own mind leaves me in a position where I doubt whether he is the right man to take us forward.

[GodEmperor Palpatine]

Realistically if Cotterill was to go, how about Nigel Pearson. Yes he comes across as a bit of an arrogant gas bag (no different to SC at times especially when we lose) but he is a proven manager at this level.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, ChippenhamRed said:

We cannot make any decision about the manager based on loyalty, only what is best for the club.

People talk about Cotterill's achievements last year as if he did it out of the kindness of his heart. At the end of the day, he was hired to do a job, did it very well, and was paid handsomely for it. All credit to him for last year, but it CANNOT be allowed to cloud our judgement of the here and now - that could be fatal.

That said, I would stick with him. The reaction to yesterday's performance has been similar to Fulham, which we followed up with a clean sheet and a win, a draw away from home and a good draw against the league leaders. Broadly speaking this team is still performing well, we are not losing week in week out and we aren't even in the relegation places.

Often our failure to win has been identified as our inability to take chances. That's a failure of individuals on the pitch not the management and wouldn't be fixed by sacking Cotterill. He has set up the team to create goal scoring opportunities and been let down by poor finishing.

 

I think there is still room for loyalty in football. His job was to keep us up and then get us up and keep us in the championship. So far he has done all the targets I am only guessing were set for him. He has bought well, I cannot even think of a bad permanent signing he has made. He did what he did last season which surely should be taken into account, ridiculous to not to even acknowledge that when considering his future. He has not been given the sufficient funds to be doing much better than where we are in the league. And I think Cotterill has a long term plan with Lansdown about what he wants to do with the club. We could get someone in and they could do worse than Cotterill and then we'd be regretting it.

[Lanterne Rouge]

2 minutes ago, Jonbristol said:

 

I think there is still room for loyalty in football. His job was to keep us up and then get us up and keep us in the championship. So far he has done all the targets I am only guessing were set for him. He has bought well, I cannot even think of a bad permanent signing he has made. He did what he did last season which surely should be taken into account, ridiculous to not to even acknowledge that when considering his future. He has not been given the sufficient funds to be doing much better than where we are in the league. And I think Cotterill has a long term plan with Lansdown about what he wants to do with the club. We could get someone in and they could do worse than Cotterill and then we'd be regretting it.

I think you`re right about the long term plan and knowing SL he will have factored in every eventuality so, unlike those north of the river, he will have considered the r word as being one possible outcome from this season albeit an unwelcome one. Unlike previous years, I think he`s taken his blinkers off and isn`t letting his heart rule his head so much.

But what do I know?

[Roger Red Hat]

13 minutes ago, Red Right Hand said:

I think you`re right about the long term plan and knowing SL he will have factored in every eventuality so, unlike those north of the river, he will have considered the r word as being one possible outcome from this season albeit an unwelcome one. Unlike previous years, I think he`s taken his blinkers off and isn`t letting his heart rule his head so much.

But what do I know?

You know SL.

[robin_unreliant]

42 minutes ago, Dark Wood Covert said:

Realistically if Cotterill was to go, how about Nigel Pearson. Yes he comes across as a bit of an arrogant gas bag (no different to SC at times especially when we lose) but he is a proven manager at this level.

When you say 'proven' I assume you mean he got Leicester promoted. What sort of wage budget did he have - how easy was it to attract good players to that club? He has proven he could do it but in different circumstances. No guarantees he could get the same results at AG as the circumstances are different.

I watched Palace smash Newcastle on MOD last night and couldn't help comparing where both clubs have been since that Play Off SF we won.That isn't because of the different managers each has had since then IMO. It is about how the clubs have been run. They have been much smarter than us in the way they spent their money. Keith Millen - much maligned when our manager - has been ever present. So why can coaches and players who fail at AG succeed elsewhere? Only one logical answer and it comes down to the lack of good direction of the club from the very top.

[cottsciderarmy]

Millen was not given enough time here and we would have never been relegated under Millen and he attracted some good players here whilst having to pick up the pieces on a shoestring budget. He is an excellent well respected coach and it's no surprise how well he has fitted in at Palace under 4 managers now. We would have been better off staying with Millen than getting in McInnes and then O'Driscol. Millen didn't fail here, he simply was not given enough time to sort out the rubbish he inherited !

[Phileas Fogg]

15 minutes ago, cottsciderarmy said:

Millen was not given enough time here and we would have never been relegated under Millen and he attracted some good players here whilst having to pick up the pieces on a shoestring budget. He is an excellent well respected coach and it's no surprise how well he has fitted in at Palace under 4 managers now. We would have been better off staying with Millen than getting in McInnes and then O'Driscol. Millen didn't fail here, he simply was not given enough time to sort out the rubbish he inherited !

I disagree there, the end of Millen's time was awful and it was right to let him go. The club needed a complete change at the time, we were on a nosedive. 

Maybe you've answered your own question, maybe Millen is a fantastic coach but not necessarily manager. 

[Chivs]

17 hours ago, BRISTOL86 said:

It's nearly halfway through the season and we're very close to the bottom of the table. Of course he's under pressure. 

Just putting it out there then - if we go down will you stand by your stance that it was the right thing to do to give him as much time as he wanted? I doubt it. 

For the second time, I'm NOT saying he should be sacked and never have done. 

The question was 'is he under pressure' and the answer is yes, whether people like it or not. If I was amongst the worst performers in my line of work I'd also be under pressure. That's life. 

Do you not think Chris Hughton is "under pressure"?  I suspect he is.  The better question is: will Cotterill cope with the pressure?  I believe he will. Nothing about his interviews or personality leave me to think he will "crumble".

If we are relegated I believe Cotterill should stay.  Relegation is clearly a stain on a manager's record but I think that Cotterill can point to just the one improved player being added over summer time as bad management.  However, I don't believe that is Cotterill's fault.

[cottsciderarmy]

1 minute ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I disagree there, the end of Millen's time was awful and it was right to let him go. The club needed a complete change at the time, we were on a nosedive. 

Maybe you've answered your own question, maybe Millen is a fantastic coach but not necessarily manager. 

Possibly but I feel his hand was forced somewhat,

However Millen's signings were all good, Brett Pitman, Jon Stead, Danny Rose (okay didn't excel for us), Steven Caulker, Jordan Spence, Andy Keogh (again didn't work out for us), Sam Vokes (Huge potential, unfortunate) and Martyn Woolford.

None of those were bad players and in many ways were good signings for the club showing Millen had no trouble attracting good players without having loads to spend. 

Sadly Coppel had already got rid of Orr, Hartley, and Trundle and replaced them with James, Hunt, Stewart, Cisse and Adomah. Yes Cisse and Adomah were good players but letting Orr and Hartley go was a big mistake and we spent mega money on wages.

I still think Millen will one day prove he is a good enough manager to manage in the top two flights.

[alexukhc]

Bring back Benny L

[Roger Red Hat]

26 minutes ago, Chivs said:

Do you not think Chris Hughton is "under pressure"?  I suspect he is.  The better question is: will Cotterill cope with the pressure?  I believe he will. Nothing about his interviews or personality leave me to think he will "crumble".

If we are relegated I believe Cotterill should stay.  Relegation is clearly a stain on a manager's record but I think that Cotterill can point to just the one improved player being added over summer time as bad management.  However, I don't believe that is Cotterill's fault.

It would be a shame if he couldn't enjoy the best stadium in the 3rd division.

[Redrobbin]

32 minutes ago, cottsciderarmy said:

Possibly but I feel his hand was forced somewhat,

However Millen's signings were all good, Brett Pitman, Jon Stead, Danny Rose (okay didn't excel for us), Steven Caulker, Jordan Spence, Andy Keogh (again didn't work out for us), Sam Vokes (Huge potential, unfortunate) and Martyn Woolford.

None of those were bad players and in many ways were good signings for the club showing Millen had no trouble attracting good players without having loads to spend. 

Sadly Coppel had already got rid of Orr, Hartley, and Trundle and replaced them with James, Hunt, Stewart, Cisse and Adomah. Yes Cisse and Adomah were good players but letting Orr and Hartley go was a big mistake and we spent mega money on wages.

I still think Millen will one day prove he is a good enough manager to manage in the top two flights.

Wasn't the rumour on here that landsdown wanted David James here. Coppell did not hence his swift departure?

[Lanterne Rouge]

I thought I heard that TBH. Marquee signing and all that. I don`t think it was the only reason Coppell left though by a long chalk!

[Juan Domingo Roldan]

Alas, I think Big Gob should go. I cringe when he gives interviews & in defeat he sometimes acts like a terrace yob. He's been found out so far this season & I do not have the confidence he will turn it around. It really is as simple as that fellas me old pals

[Major Isewater]

1 hour ago, alexukhc said:

Bring back Benny L

Or Benny Hill .

[Phileas Fogg]

1 hour ago, cottsciderarmy said:

Possibly but I feel his hand was forced somewhat,

However Millen's signings were all good, Brett Pitman, Jon Stead, Danny Rose (okay didn't excel for us), Steven Caulker, Jordan Spence, Andy Keogh (again didn't work out for us), Sam Vokes (Huge potential, unfortunate) and Martyn Woolford.

None of those were bad players and in many ways were good signings for the club showing Millen had no trouble attracting good players without having loads to spend. 

Sadly Coppel had already got rid of Orr, Hartley, and Trundle and replaced them with James, Hunt, Stewart, Cisse and Adomah. Yes Cisse and Adomah were good players but letting Orr and Hartley go was a big mistake and we spent mega money on wages.

I still think Millen will one day prove he is a good enough manager to manage in the top two flights.

True, looking back the signings he made weren't bad on paper. He didn't however get them gelling as a team and prioritised the wrong areas. I remember us being sliced apart and feeling we were a weak side with a lack of grit. Perhaps he should have had longer than 18 months, but we had to act at the time.

[redfieldred]

4 of the next 5 games are winnable. We did come up against a lot of strong teams in the first 6 weeks of the season. The real test is can we put away teams down there with us. Yesterday the answer was no, but I have a feeling we will pick up enough points in the next month. 

32 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

Or Benny Hill .

He'd just give us the runaround

[EstoniaTallinnRed]

22 hours ago, ciderup said:

Here's my thoughts on this dilemma.

Cotts has certainly earned the right to have a go at this level but for how long does goodwill last?

Our summer recruitment, or lack of it, was an absolute shambles, a real cock up. Who's to blame is pretty much irrelevant but it can't happen again in January.

If you're SL, do you trust Cott's with a decent transfer budget in January or not? If it's not, then I would suggest SL needs to act sooner rather than later so any new incumbent can assess the current squad before the window opens in just over 4 weeks.

Last summer and the consequent moaning about 'quality' and 'budget' doesn't sit well with me. We offered £6M and £9M for players so he can't say he hasn't been backed.

Should he go? A few weeks ago, I would have come down firmly on the 'no' side but I'm starting to doubt his abilities at this level and am erring towards 'yes' if I'm being honest. Luckily, I'm just a supporter and don't have to make these decisions but 27,500 seats back in L1 is not a proposition I believe SL has contemplated.

last summer and the consequent moaning about 'quality' and 'budget' doesn't sit well with me. We offered £6M and £9M for players so he can't say he hasn't been backed.

That's all well and good, but, the wages policy didn't allow them to sign.   Now is that SC's fault?

[pongo88]

1 hour ago, redfieldred said:

4 of the next 5 games are winnable. We did come up against a lot of strong teams in the first 6 weeks of the season. The real test is can we put away teams down there with us. Yesterday the answer was no, but I have a feeling we will pick up enough points in the next month. 

He'd just give us the runaround

Bolton and Rotherham were winnable. However the result was 1 point from 6.  I hope you're right about the next few matches, but I don't share your optimism. 

[ciderup]

20 minutes ago, EstoniaTallinnRed said:

last summer and the consequent moaning about 'quality' and 'budget' doesn't sit well with me. We offered £6M and £9M for players so he can't say he hasn't been backed.

That's all well and good, but, the wages policy didn't allow them to sign.   Now is that SC's fault?

I never said it was anyone's fault ETR because I don't know what happened. All I was doing was post my thoughts, not looking to hang SC out to dry. Moaning in public was not a good move IMHO but that's just it, my opinion.

I don't pretend to know what our budget is, what players we tried to purchase or what wages we offered. All that was made public was that we offered Gray more than we had paid any other player. I don't see the need to apportion blame to anyone as I don't know the inner dealings of the club.

Maybe I'm missing your point?

[GodEmperor Palpatine]

5 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I disagree there, the end of Millen's time was awful and it was right to let him go. The club needed a complete change at the time, we were on a nosedive. 

Maybe you've answered your own question, maybe Millen is a fantastic coach but not necessarily manager. 

Seemed more the players had 'revolted' against him like they did with others... The proof of that was Blackpool away, every player who played that day were a disgrace to the shirt. Lack of commitment and effort.

Millen was thrown in the deep end after the Coppell fiasco and did fine up till then (or the last few weeks of his tenure)