Cotts now under pressure??

[GodEmperor Palpatine]

5 hours ago, robin_unreliant said:

When you say 'proven' I assume you mean he got Leicester promoted. What sort of wage budget did he have - how easy was it to attract good players to that club? He has proven he could do it but in different circumstances. No guarantees he could get the same results at AG as the circumstances are different.

I watched Palace smash Newcastle on MOD last night and couldn't help comparing where both clubs have been since that Play Off SF we won.That isn't because of the different managers each has had since then IMO. It is about how the clubs have been run. They have been much smarter than us in the way they spent their money. Keith Millen - much maligned when our manager - has been ever present. So why can coaches and players who fail at AG succeed elsewhere? Only one logical answer and it comes down to the lack of good direction of the club from the very top.

I 100% agree with your bottom paragraph but disagree with the top.. Pearson proved it with Leicester in difficult circumstances, yes whether he could do it here is not proven due to the lack or scattered direction at the top.

 

IMO he could on the basis of his personality, seems like a hard headed guy who wont take to much ****, If players are poor, he'll drop them something Cotterill seems inept at doing although his hands seem to be tied.

[Phileas Fogg]

10 minutes ago, Dark Wood Covert said:

Seemed more the players had 'revolted' against him like they did with others... The proof of that was Blackpool away, every player who played that day were a disgrace to the shirt. Lack of commitment and effort.

Millen was thrown in the deep end after the Coppell fiasco and did fine up till then (or the last few weeks of his tenure)

That Blackpool game (was it his last?) is one of the most pathetic city performances I can remember. We were awful, maybe the players genuinely didn't want him there at that point.

[ChippenhamRed]

3 minutes ago, Dark Wood Covert said:

I 100% agree with your bottom paragraph but disagree with the top.. Pearson proved it with Leicester in difficult circumstances, yes whether he could do it here is not proven due to the lack or scattered direction at the top.

 

IMO he could on the basis of his personality, seems like a hard headed guy who wont take to much ****, If players are poor, he'll drop them something Cotterill seems inept at doing although his hands seem to be tied.

I've heard this accusation before, but realistically who else would he drop and replace?

He's dropped Bryan for Williams and Wilbraham for Agard, so it's an unfair accusation. Reid for Freeman is about the only other one he could possibly consider, but there are plenty who wouldn't do that.

Not having brought in adequate replacements would be a more reasonable accusation.

[GodEmperor Palpatine]

2 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

That Blackpool game (was it his last?) is one of the most pathetic city performances I can remember. We were awful, maybe the players genuinely didn't want him there at that point.

It was his last game, we lost 5-0. 

[GodEmperor Palpatine]

10 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

I've heard this accusation before, but realistically who else would he drop and replace?

He's dropped Bryan for Williams and Wilbraham for Agard, so it's an unfair accusation. Reid for Freeman is about the only other one he could possibly consider, but there are plenty who wouldn't do that.

Not having brought in adequate replacements would be a more reasonable accusation.

I did say his hands are tied... 

And the bottom sentence isn't an accusation, its cold hard fact. More of a combination of SC and upwards failing to prepare for this season. The bids of Gray and Gayle were laughable considering it was publicly stated (by Pelling) we'd roughly have a bottom 6 budget in this league... so how would we attract them in the first place?

[ChippenhamRed]

25 minutes ago, Dark Wood Covert said:

I did say his hands are tied... 

And the bottom sentence isn't an accusation, its cold hard fact. More of a combination of SC and upwards failing to prepare for this season. The bids of Gray and Gayle were laughable considering it was publicly stated (by Pelling) we'd roughly have a bottom 6 budget in this league... so how would we attract them in the first place?

You did say his hands were tied to be fair, but you also said he was "inept" at dropping people!

However I do agree with everything you've said there.

[REDOXO]

16 minutes ago, Dark Wood Covert said:

The bids of Gray and Gayle were laughable considering it was publicly stated (by Pelling) we'd roughly have a bottom 6 budget in this league... so how would we attract them in the first place?

I have some sympathy here. It seemed we were taken by surprise by cost and wages. As I believe that largely Mr. Pelling was responsible for knowing costs, negotiating contracts and bring home the deals, it seems of little surprise he was sacked!

However now we know the real score. We are a backwater football club with three stands and a low budget. Even if we are able to buy and negotiate a deal for a Gayle like quality player we are not in a position to add other equivalent players around him and as such we are about as attractive as Rotherham and MK....This is just the cold hard fact.

It seems looking abroad for players or our own players breaking into the 16 is the only real option until we are established and our ground capacity and other marketing projects allows for more liquidity under FFP.

I am hopeful there will be three teams worse than us by next May, however SL must be fuming, nearly everyone he puts faith in makes a hash of it leaving him to foot the bill!....  

[CotswoldRed]

3 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

I have some sympathy here. It seemed we were taken by surprise by cost and wages. As I believe that largely Mr. Pelling was responsible for knowing costs, negotiating contracts and bring home the deals, it seems of little surprise he was sacked!

However now we know the real score. We are a backwater football club with three stands and a low budget. Even if we are able to buy and negotiate a deal for a Gayle like quality player we are not in a position to add other equivalent players around him and as such we are about as attractive as Rotherham and MK....This is just the cold hard fact.

It seems looking abroad for players or our own players breaking into the 16 is the only real option until we are established and our ground capacity and other marketing projects allows for more liquidity under FFP.

I am hopeful there will be three teams worse than us by next May, however SL must be fuming, nearly everyone he puts faith in makes a hash of it leaving him to foot the bill!....  

He can always sack those that deserve it. Who's next? 

[YorkshireSection]

So; should SC be feeling the pressure?

Well I guess the question can only be answered by what the board gave to him as a goal for this season, we really don't know, all we can do is guess, which is depending on your imagination and expectation could be anything from promotion to mere survival, it seems more like the latter than the former given the summers limited transfer activity, which in its self remains a bit of a mystery to me itself.

What we do know so far is in the numbers, 3 wins in 18, a 27,000 revamped stadia next season, £6million transfer bids. Yet in reality those numbers mean little to any story that is unfolding in front of our expectant eyes, as far as I'm concerned as a fan I've never felt so in the dark as to what we really are hoping to achieve and what's acceptable, surely what's not is more obvious by the building work going on around us at Ashton Gate.

Personally the one major thing that stands out to me is that there's something missing; quality, is that down to the board, team, manager or a combination of all three, I'm not exactly sure but quality brings consistency and that brings confidence, we lack both, but one is dependent on the other and at the moment the missing link to this is the summer and what did or should I say didn't happen, transfer wise.

We seem to be in agreement that a new Striker, CM, Keeper and without Baker Cb is needed, in my eyes that seems to be the core of any successful team, we are missing our Spine or at least half of it and without the spine in position the rest of the body doesn't work cohesively and consistently. This may have been addressed in the summer transfer window or more worryingly it may have not, but it does seem to be a little obvious that in our pretty uninspiring loan signings we noticed and so "patched up" poorly may I add, but without choice, maybe?

Evidently there's some great teams in this league and the ones new to it are struggling to adapt, but maybe without the expectation that our promotion gained; especially with a new stadium to fill which makes me think that the pressure is to fulfil that exact remit: keep us up and let's build from there, so the pressure will be on, yet maybe at not quite the same level it would be if our position (league and personnel) was the same at the end of March for example.

Sorry for the ramble.

[ciderup]

Great post Yorkshire section.It sums up alot IMHO. We just don't know what happened in the summer, we don't know the current aspirations, we don't even know how things stand between SL and SC. Was there a problem during the summer about the budget? Were Gayle / Grey potentially 'marquee signings' as mentioned before in relation to David James?

While we all want the best for our club, having a pop at each other won't solve anything. We're all worried but we just have to take a watching brief as we have no idea what is happening behind the scenes.

Yes, the redevelopment is sensational but there are worrying scenarios and YS's 'spine' quote has got me worrying even more, that's quite startling when you think about it. 'Build your team around a strong spine' is something you hear quite alot yet look at us?

What concerns me the most is how on earth we can entice the players we need to come here without smashing the financial plan (I assume there is one) due to our lowly position? Who's going to want to sign for a club that could easily be back in L1 next season?

Change? I really don't know but I can see justified reasons for either option if I'm being honest.

 

 

[Redrobbin]

As has been said before. SC has on more than one occasion publicly complained about the resources, money available to him. Something SL is surely not happy about. Let's face it who would be in his position. Makes you think why in the summer they went for the likes of Gayle 9m. The most we have ever tried to pay for a player  by a country mile. Copled with the fact SL has; as we all know, been for the last few seasons,cutting back to balance the books. 

Seems to me this was an excercise In trying to embarrass SC in saying, "Here's the cheque book sign you you like". But when wages personal terms were to be agreed was unsustainable. I think SC was highly naive here. SL was never going to pay £30,000.00 + per player for instance in wages. He's done that before and had his fingers/cheque book burnt. 

I think that summer signing rumour of Gayle etc was a pupliity stunt that backfired badly. With egg on SC face. Which I think SL wanted. A lesson not to speak out of term. 

The silence from the board regarding this says ot all. 

[Redrobbin]

As has been said before. SC has on more than one occasion publicly complained about the resources, money available to him. Something SL is surely not happy about. Let's face it who would be in his position. Makes you think why in the summer they went for the likes of Gayle 9m. The most we have ever tried to pay for a player  by a country mile. Copled with the fact SL was as we all know has been for the last few seasons as tried to cut back to balance the books. 

Seems to me this was an excercise In trying to embarrass SC in saying here's the chequered book sign you you like. But when wages personal terms were to be agreed was unsustainable. I think SC was highly naive here. SL was never going to pay £30,000.00 + for instance. He's done that before and had his fingers/cheque book burnt. 

I think that summer signing rumour of Gayle etc was a pupliity stunt that backfired badly. With egg on SC face. Which I think SL wanted. A lesson not to speak out of term. 

 

[Redrobbin]

Double post sorry. 

Bloody iPhone and Internet!!! 

[BS4 on Tour...]

1 hour ago, Redrobbin said:

As has been said before. SC has on more than one occasion publicly complained about the resources, money available to him. Something SL is surely not happy about. Let's face it who would be in his position. Makes you think why in the summer they went for the likes of Gayle 9m. The most we have ever tried to pay for a player  by a country mile. Copled with the fact SL was as we all know has been for the last few seasons as tried to cut back to balance the books. 

Seems to me this was an excercise In trying to embarrass SC in saying here's the chequered book sign you you like. But when wages personal terms were to be agreed was unsustainable. I think SC was highly naive here. SL was never going to pay £30,000.00 + for instance. He's done that before and had his fingers/cheque book burnt. 

I think that summer signing rumour of Gayle etc was a pupliity stunt that backfired badly. With egg on SC face. Which I think SL wanted. A lesson not to speak out of term. 

 

Have we really paid £30k+ a week before in wages for a player?! Who was that?

[Frenchay Red]

We are, I believe, to some extent victims of our brilliant last season. Cotts has always been full of praise and support for the players. In their attitude, ability and collective strength. And although the summer transfer activity was poor, I reckon he expected that we would neverthless be doing better than we are. Didn't most of us think the same?

He says we are still learning and adjusting to this league, but I suspect that this is just spin and by now he knows what positions he needs to improve. Whether he can find the right players at the right price will be the real challenge.

[Cunnyfunt]

On 28 November 2015 at 10:57:22, Roger Red Hat said:

Let's have everybody's suggestions for SC's replacement please.

Nigel Pearson will do.

[Stephen Lewis]

A winner would be good.

 

[Garland-sweden]

Cotts stays and we avoid relegation.

[Robin1988]

On 28/11/2015, 16:52:39, 'keepuplino' said:

Stevie Lansdown in my mind needs to make some seriously big decisions now, personally i would make a brave decision and remove Cotts asap and bring someone in for the January transfer window..

 The events that have followed on from last season in my mind have been absolutely disgraceful and Cotts needs to take responsilbity for them...

what a bloody mess we're in!!

Haven't checked onto here before today because I knew some muppets would post trash like this. I'm sorry if you find that offensive but frankly I find your idea that being outside the relegation zone at this stage of the season is 'disgraceful' as offensive too.

Let's just have a reality check. Is it an embarrassing result? Yes. Were we on a losing run beforehand? No. Are we still above water? Yes. Can we bring in some new additions in a month? Yes.

[cottsciderarmy]

19 minutes ago, Robin1988 said:

Haven't checked onto here before today because I knew some muppets would post trash like this. I'm sorry if you find that offensive but frankly I find your idea that being outside the relegation zone at this stage of the season is 'disgraceful' as offensive too.

Let's just have a reality check. Is it an embarrassing result? Yes. Were we on a losing run beforehand? No. Are we still above water? Yes. Can we bring in some new additions in a month? Yes.

Whilst I don't disagree with you, I think most are worried that unless we strengthen in January we might end up in a tough relegation battle and people are concerned Cotts can bring in the right players.

Thus far his judgement for Championship players has to be questioned. Hamer and Fredericks who on paper should have been good signings both have left us, Moore & Cox are waste of transfers as they never play and clearly aren't considered by the manager better than we have. Kodjia, Bennett and Baker can be considered as good signings, however Bennett is likely to be gone in January and won't be easy to replace. Cotts spent the summer trying to attract unrealistic prospects, which has left us vulnerable and whilst we may have money to spend, it's questionable whether we can compete with our wage budget as it is.

That said the players we have already should be good enough to keep us up, but my doubts are not whether Cotts can keep us up, it's whether he can take us to the next level in being a solid Championship side, with an aim in 4/5 years to be in the EPL. I personally think we won't be up to that, and whilst his previous achievements have to be applauded, there is no place for sentiment. As would the club want to spend more money in January just to beat the drop, when bringing in a Pearson or someone of that ilk would be concentrating on the next step and building a squad for that. I can't help think but with Cotts in charge we'll sign a couple of aging been there and done its on 18 month deals on probably silly money to try and keep us up and gamble on a couple of Premier League youngsters on loan.

The real question is , what are the team happy with, if it's a lower end Championship side for as long as we can be until we get relegated then stick with Cotts (bit like we done with Johnson) but if it's to progress then it should be a case of saying thanks Steve for all you've done but you're not the man to get us to push on and be competitive in this league and that is what we want. 

Leicester is a fine example of how it should be done, Pearson done a good job getting them up and keeping them there, but replacing him with Claudio has made them a force in the league, something they wouldn't have been with Pearson at the helm. Same as Brighton done when bringing in Houghton and replacing Garcia and then Hypia. You have to have the staff that match the club desire. That's not to say Steve hasn't done a great job, he has and we thank him for that, but sentiment is no reason to keep him, if he isn't capable of making the next step up then he needs to be replaced. If our aim is to be an established Championship side with an aim to get to the EPL in  a few years, then just scraping up this year is not a good start to that plan, especially if you stand by a manager that probably doesn't have what it takes to bridge the gap and make us very competitive in this league.

['Orns]

Last weekend - City 1 Hull 1. Cracking point against a team packed with ex Premiership and international footballers

This weekend - Rotherham 3 City 0. Ugh

Summer was a cluster****, pretty much everything we touched turned to crap. Was that SC's fault, no. He doesn't set the budgets, he has to work within them

Is SC under pressure, of course he is. The only thing that I don't understand is the substitutions, we rarely make one that is going to change the game. Wilbs on for Agard is predictable, you can set your watch by it. I was amazed that Cox actually got off the bench on Saturday. I do think there is too much faith put in the lads who done so well last season, but that's because he has no one else to play (see cluster****, above). Hamer, Robinson, and to a certain extent, Moore have been poor loan signings for one reason or another. Cox is baffling, Baker has been superb. We need at least 3 players in January, and they need to hit the ground running, or we are right up against it. I trust SC & KB to identify the players, I don't trust SL to sign the cheque

Shiny new ground is great, but it's going to look a lot better with Derby or Leeds fans filling the away end, rather than Colchester or Crewe, I hope SL realises, he seems to be in for all the big RU players for Bristol, and they don't come cheap

[YorkshireSection]

1 hour ago, Woodsy said:

Last weekend - City 1 Hull 1. Cracking point against a team packed with ex Premiership and international footballers

This weekend - Rotherham 3 City 0. Ugh

Summer was a cluster****, pretty much everything we touched turned to crap. Was that SC's fault, no. He doesn't set the budgets, he has to work within them

Is SC under pressure, of course he is. The only thing that I don't understand is the substitutions, we rarely make one that is going to change the game. Wilbs on for Agard is predictable, you can set your watch by it. I was amazed that Cox actually got off the bench on Saturday. I do think there is too much faith put in the lads who done so well last season, but that's because he has no one else to play (see cluster****, above). Hamer, Robinson, and to a certain extent, Moore have been poor loan signings for one reason or another. Cox is baffling, Baker has been superb. We need at least 3 players in January, and they need to hit the ground running, or we are right up against it. I trust SC & KB to identify the players, I don't trust SL to sign the cheque

Shiny new ground is great, but it's going to look a lot better with Derby or Leeds fans filling the away end, rather than Colchester or Crewe, I hope SL realises, he seems to be in for all the big RU players for Bristol, and they don't come cheap

Excellent post.

I failed to think of the expense of the rugby club, is SL happy with having his top tier club at Bristol Sport being the rugger boys, maybe getting 15k from them a week and City Surviving in the championship, yo-Yoing to league 1, maybe getting 15k each week so collectively getting his average seat on bums for Ashton Gate around 30k and working on expanding the football side later on. All this whilst riding the wave of success of owning a top flight club, albeit at rugby union level and the attention, clamour it may bring to Bristol Sport, after all it would be naive to rule out the mans dynamic for success. Is this the "easier" way to achieve it, it is definitely a clearer, cheaper path to the top; waters less mudied with hurdles of FFP, rididiculous wage demands and high fan expectations, not to mention the pretty unrealistic financial opposition we are fighting against with parachute payment fuelled clubs now filling the championship! Good point Fordy you've got me thinking.....

 

[...]

This thread is because we lost a game, isn't it?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Uncle TFR

[Nogbad the Bad]

Those wondering whether SL 'will act', or what choice will be made by him regarding Cotterill's future, seem to have forgotten one thing.

The majority of SL's managerial decisions have not just been failures, but disastrous failures, and he recognised that fact.

Thus Keith Dawe chose Cotterill - yes, undoubtedly finally rubber stamped by SL - but he was appointed on Dawe's recommendation nonetheless.

The appointment of SC has proved to be an inspired choice so unless and until Keith Dawe is in agreement that a managerial change has to be made - and it's hard to believe we're anywhere near that situation imo - I suggest it won't happen.

I doubt SL wants to risk serious boardroom ructions and the possibility of falling out with his Chairman and longest serving boardroom associate, when the club is not in crisis and the fanbase, though naturally concerned at the league position, are largely behind the manager. 

SL will know the real reasons for the transfer fiasco and precisely where any individual or collective responsibility lay. He'll know how hard it's been historically to find the right manager to fit this club and that there is no guarantee a new manager will be an improvement. He'll be wary that dressing room morale could be shattered by the dismissal of the manager who not only signed the majority of the players but has raised their divisional status, thereby markedly increasing their wages and career prospects.

SL will also be well aware that SC has never been relegated from this league and, despite a worrying off day yesterday, there's no chance a team managed by Steve Cotterill is going to be relegated with barely a whimper.

In fact his managerial history shows the strong likelihood is he will actually keep City up, and with a stable managerial structure plus the lessons learned by all concerned from the Summer transfer fiasco, the club would then be in it's strongest position to progress next season.

With his largely lamentable record when it comes to appointing managers SL will surely not undertake yet another managerial gamble - one which could genuinely send the club into crisis on and off the pitch and actually decrease our survival chances if it's not an immediate success - unless he and those he confides in are convinced there is absolutely no alternative other than a desperate roll of the dice in order to preserve the Championship status Cotterill so triumphantly delivered to the club just months ago.

Such a scenario isn't even on the horizon, let alone imminent imo.

 

[Major Isewater]

6 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

Those wondering whether SL 'will act', or what choice will be made by him regarding Cotterill's future, seem to have forgotten one thing.

The majority of SL's managerial decisions have not just been failures, but disastrous failures, and he recognised that fact.

Thus Keith Dawe chose Cotterill - yes, undoubtedly finally rubber stamped by SL - but he was appointed on Dawe's recommendation nonetheless.

The appointment of SC has proved to be an inspired choice so unless and until Keith Dawe is in agreement that a managerial change has to be made - and it's hard to believe we're anywhere near that situation imo - I suggest it won't happen.

I doubt SL wants to risk serious boardroom ructions and the possibility of falling out with his Chairman and longest serving boardroom associate, when the club is not in crisis and the fanbase, though naturally concerned at the league position, are largely behind the manager. 

SL will know the real reasons for the transfer fiasco and precisely where any individual or collective responsibility lay. He'll know how hard it's been historically to find the right manager to fit this club and that there is no guarantee a new manager will be an improvement. He'll be wary that dressing room morale could be shattered by the dismissal of the manager who not only signed the majority of the players but has raised their divisional status, thereby markedly increasing their wages and career prospects.

SL will also be well aware that SC has never been relegated from this league and, despite a worrying off day yesterday, there's no chance a team managed by Steve Cotterill is going to be relegated with barely a whimper.

In fact his managerial history shows the strong likelihood is he will actually keep City up, and with a stable managerial structure plus the lessons learned by all concerned from the Summer transfer fiasco, the club would then be in it's strongest position to progress next season.

With his largely lamentable record when it comes to appointing managers SL will surely not undertake yet another managerial gamble - one which could genuinely send the club into crisis on and off the pitch and actually decrease our survival chances if it's not an immediate success - unless he and those he confides in are convinced there is absolutely no alternative other than a desperate roll of the dice in order to preserve the Championship status Cotterill so triumphantly delivered to the club just months ago.

Such a scenario isn't even on the horizon, let alone imminent imo.

 

If we beat Blackburn , end of story . If we lose again , SL.will i am 100% sure start to ask hard questions  and make subtle plans for a change .

If the wins don't come something has to be done differently .

Perhaps Cotts should stop thinking he manages Barcelona and set his team up to not get beaten first of all and then next season , hope we are still here and can push on with a squad suited to the rigours of the Championship .

[Robin1988]

2 hours ago, cottsciderarmy said:

Whilst I don't disagree with you, I think most are worried that unless we strengthen in January we might end up in a tough relegation battle and people are concerned Cotts can bring in the right players.

Thus far his judgement for Championship players has to be questioned. Hamer and Fredericks who on paper should have been good signings both have left us, Moore & Cox are waste of transfers as they never play and clearly aren't considered by the manager better than we have. Kodjia, Bennett and Baker can be considered as good signings, however Bennett is likely to be gone in January and won't be easy to replace. Cotts spent the summer trying to attract unrealistic prospects, which has left us vulnerable and whilst we may have money to spend, it's questionable whether we can compete with our wage budget as it is.

That said the players we have already should be good enough to keep us up, but my doubts are not whether Cotts can keep us up, it's whether he can take us to the next level in being a solid Championship side, with an aim in 4/5 years to be in the EPL. I personally think we won't be up to that, and whilst his previous achievements have to be applauded, there is no place for sentiment. As would the club want to spend more money in January just to beat the drop, when bringing in a Pearson or someone of that ilk would be concentrating on the next step and building a squad for that. I can't help think but with Cotts in charge we'll sign a couple of aging been there and done its on 18 month deals on probably silly money to try and keep us up and gamble on a couple of Premier League youngsters on loan.

The real question is , what are the team happy with, if it's a lower end Championship side for as long as we can be until we get relegated then stick with Cotts (bit like we done with Johnson) but if it's to progress then it should be a case of saying thanks Steve for all you've done but you're not the man to get us to push on and be competitive in this league and that is what we want. 

Leicester is a fine example of how it should be done, Pearson done a good job getting them up and keeping them there, but replacing him with Claudio has made them a force in the league, something they wouldn't have been with Pearson at the helm. Same as Brighton done when bringing in Houghton and replacing Garcia and then Hypia. You have to have the staff that match the club desire. That's not to say Steve hasn't done a great job, he has and we thank him for that, but sentiment is no reason to keep him, if he isn't capable of making the next step up then he needs to be replaced. If our aim is to be an established Championship side with an aim to get to the EPL in  a few years, then just scraping up this year is not a good start to that plan, especially if you stand by a manager that probably doesn't have what it takes to bridge the gap and make us very competitive in this league.

Yeah we might, unless we strengthen in January. But that's a lot of conditionals. If we don't strengthen in January, we might end up going down. But apparently the situation is already 'disgraceful' so heaven knows what that'll be called if it happens.

I'm happy with a lower-end Championship side this season, given the context of our situation. We haven't strengthened as we needed to to aim beyond bottom half. This league is a lot stronger than when we left it, but we've still been competitive in most games. We're not that far away from being a decent side, and with some good additions in January and the summer I would hope we could look to push for the play-offs next season.

I just don't see that anyone would do better with this group, or that we're actually doing particularly badly. No one in their right mind could question the desire of this group. We've got leaders in the team and a squad which will battle for each other, something we were badly lacking last time around.

But it does take time to adapt, and we're starting to find out feet, hence our recent results before Saturday. But this is a cruel league and if you make a slip up you will be punished; hence Saturday itself.

We can only expect so much progression with a patched-up team which has largely been 'improved' since promotion by the loan market. If we can stay afloat, playing entertaining (if inconsistent) football, consolidate and come back with a slightly older team shaped by a season together in this league, aided by some quality additions in the summer, that's ok by me, personally.

[cottsciderarmy]

4 minutes ago, Robin1988 said:

Yeah we might, unless we strengthen in January. But that's a lot of conditionals. If we don't strengthen in January, we might end up going down. But apparently the situation is already 'disgraceful' so heaven knows what that'll be called if it happens.

I'm happy with a lower-end Championship side this season, given the context of our situation. We haven't strengthened as we needed to to aim beyond bottom half. This league is a lot stronger than when we left it, but we've still been competitive in most games. We're not that far away from being a decent side, and with some good additions in January and the summer I would hope we could look to push for the play-offs next season.

I just don't see that anyone would do better with this group, or that we're actually doing particularly badly. No one in their right mind could question the desire of this group. We've got leaders in the team and a squad which will battle for each other, something we were badly lacking last time around.

But it does take time to adapt, and we're starting to find out feet, hence our recent results before Saturday. But this is a cruel league and if you make a slip up you will be punished; hence Saturday itself.

We can only expect so much progression with a patched-up team which has largely been 'improved' since promotion by the loan market. If we can stay afloat, playing entertaining (if inconsistent) football, consolidate and come back with a slightly older team shaped by a season together in this league, aided by some quality additions in the summer, that's ok by me, personally.

Possibly but I find it inexcusable that both Preston and MK Dons have improved past us and they didn't exactly batter the doors down in the transfer window.

['Orns]

1 hour ago, YorkshireSection said:

Excellent post.

I failed to think of the expense of the rugby club, is SL happy with having his top tier club at Bristol Sport being the rugger boys, maybe getting 15k from them a week and City Surviving in the championship, yo-Yoing to league 1, maybe getting 15k each week so collectively getting his average seat on bums for Ashton Gate around 30k and working on expanding the football side later on. All this whilst riding the wave of success of owning a top flight club, albeit at rugby union level and the attention, clamour it may bring to Bristol Sport, after all it would be naive to rule out the mans dynamic for success. Is this the "easier" way to achieve it, it is definitely a clearer, cheaper path to the top; waters less mudied with hurdles of FFP, rididiculous wage demands and high fan expectations, not to mention the pretty unrealistic financial opposition we are fighting against with parachute payment fuelled clubs now filling the championship! Good point Fordy you've got me thinking.....

 

Fordy!? At least you didn't call me @TETBURY MASSIVE

The rugby thing only really clicked with me the other day, this is the time of year when the majority of business is done in relation to the squad for next season (always found that odd), every top star available next season is linked to Bristol. As most will know, I'm a Gloucester fan - we can't afford to keep up with Bristol. Worrying, unless you're a Bristol fan, I suspect. Sure I've read somewhere that rugby is SL's first love?

['Orns]

5 minutes ago, cottsciderarmy said:

Possibly but I find it inexcusable that both Preston and MK Dons have improved past us and they didn't exactly batter the doors down in the transfer window.

Not by much though, we are all down there, but I get your point

[Nogbad the Bad]

2 hours ago, cottsciderarmy said:

Whilst I don't disagree with you, I think most are worried that unless we strengthen in January we might end up in a tough relegation battle and people are concerned Cotts can bring in the right players.

Thus far his judgement for Championship players has to be questioned. Hamer and Fredericks who on paper should have been good signings both have left us, Moore & Cox are waste of transfers as they never play and clearly aren't considered by the manager better than we have. Kodjia, Bennett and Baker can be considered as good signings, however Bennett is likely to be gone in January and won't be easy to replace. Cotts spent the summer trying to attract unrealistic prospects, which has left us vulnerable and whilst we may have money to spend, it's questionable whether we can compete with our wage budget as it is.

That said the players we have already should be good enough to keep us up, but my doubts are not whether Cotts can keep us up, it's whether he can take us to the next level in being a solid Championship side, with an aim in 4/5 years to be in the EPL. I personally think we won't be up to that, and whilst his previous achievements have to be applauded, there is no place for sentiment. As would the club want to spend more money in January just to beat the drop, when bringing in a Pearson or someone of that ilk would be concentrating on the next step and building a squad for that. I can't help think but with Cotts in charge we'll sign a couple of aging been there and done its on 18 month deals on probably silly money to try and keep us up and gamble on a couple of Premier League youngsters on loan.

The real question is , what are the team happy with, if it's a lower end Championship side for as long as we can be until we get relegated then stick with Cotts (bit like we done with Johnson) but if it's to progress then it should be a case of saying thanks Steve for all you've done but you're not the man to get us to push on and be competitive in this league and that is what we want. 

Leicester is a fine example of how it should be done, Pearson done a good job getting them up and keeping them there, but replacing him with Claudio has made them a force in the league, something they wouldn't have been with Pearson at the helm. Same as Brighton done when bringing in Houghton and replacing Garcia and then Hypia. You have to have the staff that match the club desire. That's not to say Steve hasn't done a great job, he has and we thank him for that, but sentiment is no reason to keep him, if he isn't capable of making the next step up then he needs to be replaced. If our aim is to be an established Championship side with an aim to get to the EPL in  a few years, then just scraping up this year is not a good start to that plan, especially if you stand by a manager that probably doesn't have what it takes to bridge the gap and make us very competitive in this league.

Cotterill's probable brief when appointed:

13/14 :SL: I realise the club's in a diabolical state, and it's a big ask, but please, for Christ's sake keep Bristol City in the 3rd division. TIck.

14/15, 15/16: If you keep the club up, fantastic, but that's just the start. The next requirement is for you to build the club and get us promoted to the Championship within 2 years. Tick, ahead of schedule.

15/16 or 16/17 onwards: I'm a realist. I don't expect miracles or immediate success in the Championship, I realise it's an extremely tough league and we will be amongst the smaller clubs if we get there. First and foremost the aim would be to maintain Championship status while the ground development is completed and beyond. The club should establish itself in the Championship and then progress each year with the ultimate aim of getting to the PL within 5 years. Ongoing.

I know there will be disappointing periods along the way, but if we are on course to achieve these goals you can be certain I will support you through the inevitable hard times and, within reason, back you all the way financially.

Something like that I assume. A reasonable long term plan, with stability at the heart, and SC so far well on course.