Fc uk FIFA ... wear The POPPY

[1bristolcity]

Don't get me wrong, but all this Poppy Rememberence Day palava can get a bit wearing, and actually 'insisting' that someone has to wear a Poppy against his or her wishes...well actually contradicts those soldiers who fought for freedom, and freedom to choose for oneselves instead of being dictated to.

I served in the forces, as did my parents, and my Grandfather ...and so on, but there has to be a point I think when all this outpouring has to come to a respectful end, I see in peoples faces the lack of emotion that only those who have served fought and have lost loved ones can have. Actually I believe a lot of this is fueled by right wing views, other than anything else, of course we should never forget, but we also need to move on, and stop looking back.

[1bristolcity]

1 hour ago, Collis1 said:

Try telling the victims of some of the British wars that the poppy isn't a political symbol. 

Whilst involvement in WW1 & 2 were clearly vindicated in the fight against fascism, we have also been involved in plenty more calamitous invasions that have led to millions of innocent deaths.

I wear a poppy but I understand those who decide not to. Its not necessarily disrespecting anyone.

Very good Collis, I too wear a Poppy, but will always respect the rights of those who wish not to.

[downendcity]

Seems to me that FIFA has made poppy eating a political issue. 

[WhistleHappy]

..... surprised they haven't deemed The Poppy as being 'drug related'  - which would be ridiculous of course.

[Fiale]

what a shitfest everything turns into nowadays... so many people wanting their view/opinions shoved down others throats wanting their "view" to prevail" at all costs that we end with nothing, say nothing, for fear of offending someone, somewhere... 

[Calculus]

31 minutes ago, 1bristolcity said:

Don't get me wrong, but all this Poppy Rememberence Day palava can get a bit wearing, and actually 'insisting' that someone has to wear a Poppy against his or her wishes...well actually contradicts those soldiers who fought for freedom, and freedom to choose for oneselves instead of being dictated to.

I served in the forces, as did my parents, and my Grandfather ...and so on, but there has to be a point I think when all this outpouring has to come to a respectful end, I see in peoples faces the lack of emotion that only those who have served fought and have lost loved ones can have. Actually I believe a lot of this is fueled by right wing views, other than anything else, of course we should never forget, but we also need to move on, and stop looking back.

Think this is pretty much spot on. When I was young (64 now) poppies and rememberance day were about quiet reflection about the fallen. These days it's seems to have turned into some nationalistic celebration. My father was evacuated from Dunkirk and went ashore on D Day +1. He saw a mate stood next to him shot through the head on a beach one day and always had a special thought at this time of year. It never occurred to him to criticisre anyone not wearing a poppy. He would have been ashamed of some of the militaristic nonsense you get know - virtually all of it from people who have never been involved in war but have chosen to be personally offended nonetheless. 

[Midlands Robin]

I agree with the above. I'm ex Royal Navy and there's nothing I hate more than people who wear poppies out of obligation. Right around now every news reader, tv host, weatherman and every other Tom, Dick or Harry on TV will have one on and in most cases, out of obligation more than the wish to remember those that have gone before. I have no issue at all with anyone who does not wish to wear one. It's not a crime.

You can bet if anyone on TV doesn't have one on, the daily rags will be full of 'disrespect' stories and social media will be alive with the tut tut of keyboard warriors.

 

[BS4 on Tour...]

13 hours ago, Barrs Court Red said:

Let's say ex-prime minister and war criminal Tony Blair dies, would FIFA object to black arm bands? 

Has he been convicted? 

[Brows75]

8 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Has he been convicted? 

No and never will but jeez I would party for a month if he were.

 

[BS4 on Tour...]

14 minutes ago, Brows75 said:

No and never will but jeez I would party for a month if he were.

 

Fair enough, but not clever to call someone a 'war criminal' on a public forum when he has never been convicted. 

I know it wasn't you who called him that by the way.....but lots of people toss casual accusations around in a high profile environment, it isn't clever. 

[Brows75]

Yep you are right bs4 (I should have elaborated on my thoughts/or not!) but this bloke really upset a lot of people.

Back to subject, I really hope that we (home nations) wear the poppy in some form.

I'm not from a forces background but wear the poppy out of respect for the fallen and also the people that put themselves on the line for all of our futures, not out of obligation.

 

[RedM]

1 hour ago, Midlands Robin said:

I agree with the above. I'm ex Royal Navy and there's nothing I hate more than people who wear poppies out of obligation. Right around now every news reader, tv host, weatherman and every other Tom, Dick or Harry on TV will have one on and in most cases, out of obligation more than the wish to remember those that have gone before. I have no issue at all with anyone who does not wish to wear one. It's not a crime.

You can bet if anyone on TV doesn't have one on, the daily rags will be full of 'disrespect' stories and social media will be alive with the tut tut of keyboard warriors.

 

I wear one with pride. I have no connection with the forces, nor has anyone in my family. I didn't have relatives or family friends who fought in the world wars or in any other conflict since. 

So maybe I'm not worthy of wearing one either, but I personally do as I want to pay my respects (to all those I have absolutely no connection with) as they were/are braver than I could ever be. I give to the Poppy Charity, Help for Hero's etc as it's not only those that have perished in the wars we should be thinking of but all those maimed physically and mentally in more recent times.

These charities are very important to me, for no personal reason as I've already said. I do wear a bracelet/band all year round which I got from the Poppy appeal. I hope I'm not seen as being 'fake'as that would upset me. 

[Midlands Robin]

3 minutes ago, RedM said:

So maybe I'm not worthy of wearing one either, but I personally do as I want to pay my respects (to all those I have absolutely no connection with)

You completely misunderstand the point I'm making. You wear one because you want to and you think its the right thing to do. That is exactly what it should be about.

No one has come along and told you to put one on in case the twittersphere goes into overdrive about the lack of respect for our forces. Do you honestly think every TV presenter, football player or person in the media would wear one by choice if they weren't in the public eye?

That's what I don't like. If you want to wear one, great. if you don't no problem. It's not an obligation.

I never once stated you had to be worthy of wearing one !!!!

[Ashtonwurzel]

2 hours ago, Calculus said:

Think this is pretty much spot on. When I was young (64 now) poppies and rememberance day were about quiet reflection about the fallen. These days it's seems to have turned into some nationalistic celebration. My father was evacuated from Dunkirk and went ashore on D Day +1. He saw a mate stood next to him shot through the head on a beach one day and always had a special thought at this time of year. It never occurred to him to criticisre anyone not wearing a poppy. He would have been ashamed of some of the militaristic nonsense you get know - virtually all of it from people who have never been involved in war but have chosen to be personally offended nonetheless. 

Well said.

[Ashtonwurzel]

8 minutes ago, Midlands Robin said:

You completely misunderstand the point I'm making. You wear one because you want to and you think its the right thing to do. That is exactly what it should be about.

No one has come along and told you to put one on in case the twittersphere goes into overdrive about the lack of respect for our forces. Do you honestly think every TV presenter, football player or person in the media would wear one by choice if they weren't in the public eye?

That's what I don't like. If you want to wear one, great. if you don't no problem. It's not an obligation.

I never once stated you had to be worthy of wearing one !!!!

Also well said.

[RedM]

5 minutes ago, Midlands Robin said:

You completely misunderstand the point I'm making. You wear one because you want to and you think its the right thing to do. That is exactly what it should be about.

No one has come along and told you to put one on in case the twittersphere goes into overdrive about the lack of respect for our forces. Do you honestly think every TV presenter, football player or person in the media would wear one by choice if they weren't in the public eye?

That's what I don't like. If you want to wear one, great. if you don't no problem. It's not an obligation.

I never once stated you had to be worthy of wearing one !!!!

I wasn't saying you were, sorry I didn't explain it very well. I was just using your quote to try to point out that whilst many people are able to wear one to honour and remember relatives etc there must still be lots who wear one for the right reasons. It's not just an accessory, looks pretty or guilt-tripped into buying one. But I do agree someone must be employed in the tv studios to ensure everyone who appears is fully poppy-ed, which does seem fake.

[Ashtonwurzel]

[REDOXO]

2 hours ago, Midlands Robin said:

You completely misunderstand the point I'm making. You wear one because you want to and you think its the right thing to do. That is exactly what it should be about.

No one has come along and told you to put one on in case the twittersphere goes into overdrive about the lack of respect for our forces. Do you honestly think every TV presenter, football player or person in the media would wear one by choice if they weren't in the public eye?

That's what I don't like. If you want to wear one, great. if you don't no problem. It's not an obligation.

I never once stated you had to be worthy of wearing one !!!!

This is a thread about a Poppy on an England shirt and a possible fine or points deduction if the FA put it on. 

The only personal freedom to wear a Poppy that 'might' be infringed in this case is any player that does not want to wear it because it does not sit well with his views. Highly unlikely  do you not think  

I suspect you are not seriously making the arguement that the personal rights of a professional international footballer may be infringed by wearing it thus don't put it on. 

As for the twitter sphere stating anything, I'm not sure, I don't do Twitter but I support anyone's right to do anything, but it has nothing to do with the issue of this thread. England v Scotland on armastice day is a fair case for a Poppy and in my opinion should be on the national shirt and be damned 

[WayOutWest]

Wear one, don't wear one.  Fine by me. However I will mostly likely ask you if you don't wear one why not?

I served in the Royal Navy as did my Dad and my uncle.  My Grandad served in Burma WWII.  I mostly wear it for him. 

We need to keep these traditions strong. Each day that passes we lose more and more of those that fought.  Soon like the first world War there will be none left. Then it's left to history and written word. 

It's a time to reflect on those we have lost. It's a time to reflect on those we will lose eventually and how important it is to them. For them it's friends and love ones. 

It should never be forced. I would find it  hard to imagine there is anyone in our country that doesn't willingly want to wear one. 

Stevo 

 

 

 

[BCFC Jimmer]

16 hours ago, NickJ said:

Which "British wars" do you mean?

Here is a few that spring to mind.  I'm not proud of most of these, but I am a pacifist - I am sure others will argue they were all entirely necessary:

• Indian Rebellion 1857
• New Zealand land wars 1845–1872
• Second Anglo-Sikh War 1848–1849
• Second Ashanti War 1863–1864
• Bhutan War 1864–1865
• Third Ashanti War 1873–1874
• Second Anglo-Afghan War 1878–1888
• Anglo-Zulu War 1879
• Second Anglo Marri War 1880
• First Boer War 1880–1881
• Boxer Rebellion ended 1901
• Anglo-Aro War 1901–1902
• Second Boer War ended 1902
• Third Anglo Marri War 1917
• Third Afghan War 1919
• Irish War of Independence 1919–1921
• Malayan Emergency 1948–1960
• Korean War 1950–1953
• Mau Mau Uprising 1952–1960
• Cypriot Independence 1955–1959
• Suez Crisis 1956–1957
• Brunei Revolt 1962–1966
• Indonesia–Malaysia confrontation 1962-1966
• Dhofar Rebellion 1962–1975
• Aden Emergency 1963
• Operation Banner 1969–2007
• Falklands War 1982
• Gulf War 1990–1991
• Yugoslav wars 1991–2001
• Kosovo War 1998–1999
• Yugoslav wars ended 2001
• Iraq War 2003–2008
• War in Afghanistan 2001–2014
• Military intervention against the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant 2014–present
• War in Afghanistan (2015–present)

 

 

 

[phantom]

Fifa has turned down a request from England and Scotland for players to wear armbands featuring poppies when they face each other at Wembley on Armistice Day, says the Scottish Football Association.

The two nations meet in a 2018 World Cup qualifier on 11 November, the day when the United Kingdom traditionally remembers its war dead.

SFA chief Stewart Regan says Fifa, which bans political, religious or commercial messages on shirts, is "sticking to the letter of the law".

The two football associations hope to change Fifa's mind.

MP Damian Collins - chair of the Commons' Culture, Media and Sport select committee - has written to Fifa president Gianni Infantino asking for the world governing body to reconsider its decision.

Separately, the Football Association of Wales says it is seeking approval for its players to wear the poppy symbol on their shirts when they play Serbia at the Cardiff City Stadium on 12 November.

The football associations of England, Scotland and Wales also want to know what the potential punishments could be should they decide to flout the rules.

Fifa, football's world governing body, has not indicated whether a points penalty would be under consideration.

Regan said he and FA chief executive Martin Glenn would be meeting Fifa officials on Thursday to discuss the poppy issue.

"We will be asking for their support to try to give the people of England and Scotland what they want," Regan told BBC Radio 5 live. "That is to use this match of a way of remembering people who lost their lives in the war.

"I can understand why they are doing this, but it is nothing more than a mark of respect. It is a personal choice. This is not about making some political point."

The compromise of wearing a printed poppy on an armband was brokered for England's 1-0 friendly win over Spain at Wembley on 12 November, 2011.

A spokesman for the English FA said: "We are working closely with the Royal British Legion once again this year to honour and remember the sacrifices made by those serving in the armed forces.

"In recent weeks, the FA has led remembrance discussions with Fifa to allow the England team to show its support for the Poppy Appeal during the World Cup qualifier with Scotland."

 

[WhistleHappy]

You know in a roundabout way and in their infinite lack of wisdom maybe FIFA have inadvertently helped this years Poppy Appeal.

They say there is no such thing as bad publicity, well in this case I'm beginning to agree. If FIFA had not been so pig ignorant and self important on this matter the home nations teams would have played their matches with the poppy on their shirts - as expected, so no news there, many would hardly have noticed.

Now the Poppy issue has arisen whether FIFA back down or not, whether the FA defy a possible continued ban or not (if it has to be done I hope the FA has the balls to do so regardless of sanctions).... the wider issue of Remembrance and the Poppy has without doubt been reinforced and highlighted in a way that wouldn't have been possible without this controversial and downright stupid decree from FIFA..

**** FIFA (but thanks) .... they maybe win the battle, but the Poppy wins the war! ... 

Remembrance 11th of the 11th @ 11am   lest we forget.

[REDOXO]

2 hours ago, Collis1 said:

Here is a few that spring to mind.  I'm not proud of most of these, but I am a pacifist - I am sure others will argue they were all entirely necessary:

• Indian Rebellion 1857
• New Zealand land wars 1845–1872
• Second Anglo-Sikh War 1848–1849
• Second Ashanti War 1863–1864
• Bhutan War 1864–1865
• Third Ashanti War 1873–1874
• Second Anglo-Afghan War 1878–1888
• Anglo-Zulu War 1879
• Second Anglo Marri War 1880
• First Boer War 1880–1881
• Boxer Rebellion ended 1901
• Anglo-Aro War 1901–1902
• Second Boer War ended 1902
• Third Anglo Marri War 1917
• Third Afghan War 1919
• Irish War of Independence 1919–1921
• Malayan Emergency 1948–1960
• Korean War 1950–1953
• Mau Mau Uprising 1952–1960
• Cypriot Independence 1955–1959
• Suez Crisis 1956–1957
• Brunei Revolt 1962–1966
• Indonesia–Malaysia confrontation 1962-1966
• Dhofar Rebellion 1962–1975
• Aden Emergency 1963
• Operation Banner 1969–2007
• Falklands War 1982
• Gulf War 1990–1991
• Yugoslav wars 1991–2001
• Kosovo War 1998–1999
• Yugoslav wars ended 2001
• Iraq War 2003–2008
• War in Afghanistan 2001–2014
• Military intervention against the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant 2014–present
• War in Afghanistan (2015–present)

 

 

 

Not sure whAt this list has to do with a Poppy on an England V Scotland shirt and I didn't look to see what prompted it. 

However, not one soldier who fell in any of those wars was responsible for the politics behind it so I don't understand any points being made relating pacifism to wearing a poppy. There were many pacifists killed in war usually in Red Cross operations or other forms of non arms carrying action. I know many pacifists all to a man will buy a poppy, particularly since Haig Appeal was removed. 

If some don't want to wear one for what ever reason that is there right but the soldier, sailor, airman and their family are not responsible for the politics in Ireland Iraq the Dardenelles or Korea just to protect the country in the way they are told to do by government. 

[Gert Mare]

It will be banned. You can guarantee that. As soon as right wingers start publishing any symbol across social media along with aggressive statements aimed at other races and religions then the symbol and what it actually stands for becomes lost forever.  The same thing happened with Skinheads and the National Front. It is utterly disgusting to think that the majority of those who want to wear the poppy in remembrance of all fallen victims who have given up their lives for others are now branded as offensive extremists if they choose to wear one. Sad times. 

[Ashtonwurzel]

20 minutes ago, Cheesleysmate said:

It will be banned. You can guarantee that. As soon as right wingers start publishing any symbol across social media along with aggressive statements aimed at other races and religions then the symbol and what it actually stands for becomes lost forever.  The same thing happened with Skinheads and the National Front. It is utterly disgusting to think that the majority of those who want to wear the poppy in remembrance of all fallen victims who have given up their lives for others are now branded as offensive extremists if they choose to wear one. Sad times. 

Sad but true. Look at the St Georges flag, a prime example.

[Ashtonwurzel]

https://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-0aa2c79fbc512a6357a8f092dcfdb245%3Fconvert_to_webp%3Dtrue&imgrefurl=https://www.quora

 

[phantom]

At worst they are going to wear a poppy on their black armbands - but wouldn't it big a BIG up yours to FIFA / UEFA if all sides went ahead and wore them on their shirts?

FIFA have hinted that "at worst" it will be a fine - the English FA would swallow that up, but not sure how the Scottish and Welsh FA's would feel about that?

[Gert Mare]

1 hour ago, Ashtonwurzel said:

Sad but true. Look at the St Georges flag, a prime example.

Exactly. We have all seen the pictures with a poppy on them with the words written underneath "If you don't like it then **** off!". When things like that are posted on the internet it is no surprise that the poppy now causes a lot of controversy.

[Loco Rojo]

Even if it was a points deduction then i'd still support poppies on the shirt. This mark of respect to the lose of all life during conflict - from all sides - is bigger than football and certainly bigger than the corrupt governing body. 

End of. Shouldn't even be a bloody debate on this subject.

[Ashtonwurzel]

The Difference Between patriotism and nationalism is that the patriot is proud of his country for what it does , and the nationalist is proud of his country no matter what it does ; the first attitude creates a feeling of responsibility while the second a feeling of blind arrogance that leads to a war .