Fc uk FIFA ... wear The POPPY

[TV Tom]

The one minute silence at a football match is more than enough, all this fuss and over-blown hysteria about Poppys on football shirts is nonsense, I think there should be more debate about loan shark companies and betting firms that are plastered over many teams shirts

[weymouth red]

harrys 

think your missing the point! if we want to wear them it's upto us not FIFA 

[TV Tom]

15 minutes ago, weymouth red said:

harrys 

think your missing the point! if we want to wear them it's upto us not FIFA 

Well actually it is up to FIFA which is why there's such a fuss

[havanatopia]

On 3 November 2016 at 11:58, Mr Popodopolous said:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p04dwp6j

Interesting- sets a precedent. Supposing Serbia play a game on one of their anniversaries, yes in those regions they commemorate military victories/heroic defeats back from the 1380s. Kosovo 1389, they play on that date vs say Croatia- well you can imagine the issues that would cause. Or even worse they play us, after our involvement there was controversial. There's tons and tons of examples round the world- say Argentina wear a "Malvinas is Argentine" badge or something as their new logo and are drawn against England, would we be happy about that?

Are we not losing sight of the fact that the poppy is a symbol of rememberance for those who died in battle? If Argentina have a flower that represents their dead during the Falklands then of course they can wear it. That is not politics. 

Ireland is equally wrong to celebrate a specific battle in the way they have on a shirt but if they use a symbol to remember the dead then that also of course should be reapected and allowed.

It is when you name a specific battle or demand especially when you play that team that politics comes into play and that, in sport, is disrespectful. 

Like others have said, it seems there is a loss of common sense across many opinions especially from the powers that be; as for FIFA, I suppose we should forgive them because we know they lack this basic level of intellect. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

On 11/5/2016 at 11:10, havanatopia said:

Are we not losing sight of the fact that the poppy is a symbol of rememberance for those who died in battle? If Argentina have a flower that represents their dead during the Falklands then of course they can wear it. That is not politics. 

Ireland is equally wrong to celebrate a specific battle in the way they have on a shirt but if they use a symbol to remember the dead then that also of course should be reapected and allowed.

It is when you name a specific battle or demand especially when you play that team that politics comes into play and that, in sport, is disrespectful. 

Like others have said, it seems there is a loss of common sense across many opinions especially from the powers that be; as for FIFA, I suppose we should forgive them because we know they lack this basic level of intellect. 

I think FIFA just have a blanket rule as it's easier than adjudicating than on a case by case basis.

[phantom]

See the gutless Welsh FA have announced they don't want to break FIFA rules and will only be wearing black armbands but will have no poppy on display 

[frenchred]

1 hour ago, phantom said:

See the gutless Welsh FA have announced they don't want to break FIFA rules and will only be wearing black armbands but will have no poppy on display 

yep, appears points/fine is more important than remembering the brave souls who enabled us to live the life we lead

[RumRed]

1 hour ago, phantom said:

See the gutless Welsh FA have announced they don't want to break FIFA rules and will only be wearing black armbands but will have no poppy on display 

They'd have been better to do nothing, a black armband is distinctly different in meaning to the poppy.

[cityironman]

2 hours ago, phantom said:

See the gutless Welsh FA have announced they don't want to break FIFA rules and will only be wearing black armbands but will have no poppy on display 

They should be ashamed of themselves. As i said previously, to allow this corrupt organisation to tell us how to honour our war dead is an insult to those that gave the ultimate sacrifice.

[Guest]

In Flander fields

In Flanders fields the poppies blow

Between the crosses, row on row,

That mark our place; and in the sky

The larks, still bravely singing, fly

Scarce heard amid the guns below.

 

We are the Dead. Short days ago

We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,

Loved and were loved, and now we lie

In Flanders fields.

 

Take up our quarrel with the foe:

To you from failing hands we throw

The torch; be yours to hold it high.

If ye break faith with us who die

We shall not sleep, though poppies grow

In Flanders fields.

 

Lieutenant Colonel John McCrae - Canadian soldier

 

For The Fallen

With proud thanksgiving, a mother for her children,

England mourns for her dead across the sea.

Flesh of her flesh they were, spirit of her spirit,

Fallen in the cause of the free.

 

Solemn the drums thrill; Death august and royal

Sings sorrow up into immortal spheres,

There is music in the midst of desolation

And a glory that shines upon our tears.

 

They went with songs to the battle, they were young,

Straight of limb, true of eye, steady and aglow.

They were staunch to the end against odds uncounted;

They fell with their faces to the foe.

 

They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:

Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.

At the going down of the sun and in the morning

We will remember them.

 

They mingle not with their laughing comrades again;

They sit no more at familiar tables of home;

They have no lot in our labour of the day-time;

They sleep beyond England's foam.

 

But where our desires are and our hopes profound,

Felt as a well-spring that is hidden from sight,

To the innermost heart of their own land they are known

As the stars are known to the Night;

 

As the stars that shall be bright when we are dust,

Moving in marches upon the heavenly plain;

As the stars that are starry in the time of our darkness,

To the end, to the end, they remain.

 

Robert Laurence Binyon - English poet

 

 

England and Scotland are two nations who will be playing a football match, and to both nations, the Poppy is seen as a symbol of remembrance. If FIFA chooses to interpret this as political, then so be it. We know better!

 

As an edit:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moina_Michael#Remembrance_poppy

 

"Michael vowed to always wear a red poppy as a symbol of remembrance for those who served in the war"

[Mr Popodopolous]

From the point of view of FIFA we are just 4 nations out of over 200 members. Nothing special but must abide by same rules as all the rest. That's the main reason for their stance. Far easier for them just to ban it all.

[phantom]

3 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

From the point of view of FIFA we are just 4 nations out of over 200 members. Nothing special but must abide by same rules as all the rest. That's the main reason for their stance. Far easier for them just to ban it all.

Nonsense, they are completely misinterpreting what it's meaning is

[RedM]

18 hours ago, phantom said:

See the gutless Welsh FA have announced they don't want to break FIFA rules and will only be wearing black armbands but will have no poppy on display 

Yet their fans are being allowed/encouraged to form a poppy display at the stadium (holding up coloured cards I'm guessing).  I don't know if that's better or worse, the team won't risk the fine and/or points deduction yet saying we are doing something through the fans.

[Mr Popodopolous]

15 minutes ago, phantom said:

Nonsense, they are completely misinterpreting what it's meaning is

Yeah it may well be so but basically FIFA find it easier to say none means none for all. I am not defending their position as it goes- I think much as we criticise him Sepp Blatter did in 2011 eventually permit it on their armbands.

[Mr Popodopolous]

As for Wales, well Serbia I predict might object to a poppy, whereas England-Scotland would both choose to wear it. The difference.

[spudski]

Worth putting up on this thread what the wearing of the poppy means...As it seems a lot don't have a clue to it's meaning...From the British Legion site...

WHAT THE POPPY MEANS

The poppy is

• A symbol of Remembrance and hope
• Worn by millions of people
• Red because of the natural colour of field poppies

The poppy is NOT

• A symbol of death or a sign of support for war
• A reflection of politics or religion
• Red to reflect the colour of blood

Wearing a poppy is a personal choice and reflects individual and personal memories. It is not compulsory but is greatly appreciated by those it helps – our beneficiaries: those currently serving in our Armed Forces, veterans, and their families and dependants.

 

As it states...IT IS NOT A REFLECTION OF POLITICS OR RELIGION.

It is... A SYMBOL OF REMEMEMBRANCE AND HOPE.

Hence...if the FA did there due diligence and research, they wouldn't have needed to go to FIFA to ask permission, as FIFA rules stipulate no POLITICAL STATEMENTS.

FIFA haven't banned the display of the poppy....they haven't told the FA they cannot use it....they simply pointed the FA in the direction of their rules.

The FA are bloody idiots for not doing their research, and the media have hyped it up into a complete fabrication. And guess what...the majority of folk fell for it and feel outraged. Doesn't anyone question the media these days?

 

[shelts]

I'm extremely grateful to those who gave for others in the Second World War, someone had to stand up to Hitler. Stand up to FIFA / UEFA  child's play,  not like anyone's gonna get killed is it?

[Mr Popodopolous]

Symbol of rememberance and hope though it maybe.

 

So @spudski at a future game...supposing I am Serb, I decide wearing poppies to commemorate Slobodan Milosevic at a home game v Croatia or Bosnia? Am I acting politically or just remembering a national hero?

[spudski]

2 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Symbol of rememberance and hope though it maybe.

 

So @spudski at a future game...supposing I am Serb, I decide wearing poppies to commemorate Slobodan Milosevic at a home game v Croatia or Bosnia? Am I acting politically or just remembering a national hero?

Neither...you are remembering the people, the friends and relatives that have fallen in war, and by showing the poppy you remember them and hope that war never happens again. Whether they have fallen for a cause that is right or wrong is another thing.

I should imagine there are British soldiers who have fought in Wars since ww2 that have been seen as false flag wars since. They have fallen needlessly doing what the Government have asked of them.

[cityexile]

An interesting debate.

I am nervous about on the margins some using the poppy as a king of pseudo nationalistic rally point to tell those pesky jonny foreigners what to do. To me it has always been about, well, what the Royal British Legion says it is about.

An anecdote. My job takes me in to schools, and today I was in an inner city secondary school. It would be said to have a challanging catchment area. It has about 1300 kids, splits about 50/50 between what are called 'white working class' children and BME, with a little over half of the latter being Muslim children, many of them children of first generation immigrants and refugees from civil war. Many challanging children.

Anyhow, was not expecting much to happen, and not really giving the time much thought in truth. However, at ten to 11 I was invited to join their rememberance. In an open area, I assume an ex service man now on the staff wore his berry, recited the normal words, the last post was played on a speaker, and as every child in the school crowded around him and overlooked from balconies, the most beautiful two minute silence was observed by every child. Couple of minutes later they were all gone and back in lesson.

I found it actually quite moving. There is much debate as to how you teach 'British values' in schools, but the children just seemed to 'get' what this was about. Of course it is personal and should not be forced, but it did occur to me that as long as it is approached in the right way, it is very much a unifying moment in the year.

 

[Eddie Hitler]

On 03/11/2016 at 11:58, Mr Popodopolous said:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p04dwp6j

Interesting- sets a precedent. Supposing Serbia play a game on one of their anniversaries, yes in those regions they commemorate military victories/heroic defeats back from the 1380s. Kosovo 1389, they play on that date vs say Croatia- well you can imagine the issues that would cause. Or even worse they play us, after our involvement there was controversial. There's tons and tons of examples round the world- say Argentina wear a "Malvinas is Argentine" badge or something as their new logo and are drawn against England, would we be happy about that?

The poppy doesn't commemorate a specific event though; it is remembering all dead and injured UK soldiers from all conflicts. Anybody foreign who in the ludicrous modern parlance is likely to "take offence" at that is probably going to be offended by our players wearing an England shirt in the first place.

[cityexile]

4 hours ago, Eddie Hitler said:

The poppy doesn't commemorate a specific event though; it is remembering all dead and injured UK soldiers from all conflicts. Anybody foreign who in the ludicrous modern parlance is likely to "take offence" at that is probably going to be offended by our players wearing an England shirt in the first place.

I think one of the things I like about the poppy is it can mean to some extent what you want it to.

For me, I chose to remember all those who have died or been affected by wars, and to take a moments reflection. Entirely happy with where the money goes, but I think it is a good thing it can mean different things to different people.

[RaspberryRed]

On 03/11/2016 at 09:34, Midlands Robin said:

It was Danny Murphy, he repeated it on Radio 5 this morning.

The more I listen to Danny Murphy the more I like him. I think it's the bald, almost Northern, Somtimes grumpy, honest, Middle aged, chats sense, say it how it is blokes that I can relate to.

Bar the almost Northern bit!! 

[RaspberryRed]

On 06/11/2016 at 22:23, Mr Popodopolous said:

I think FIFA just have a blanket rule as it's easier than adjudicating than on a case by case basis.

I think it's more of a 'Bank it' rule 

[22A]

On ‎11‎/‎4‎/‎2016 at 11:20, Mr Popodopolous said:

Interestingly, it is quite possible the opposition has to complain to risk a points deduction- so us and Scotland should be okay.

Wales though- would think Serbia would take offence really.

Apparently Wales didn't wear the poppy in case FIFA deducted points or fined them for the "offence".

[RaspberryRed]

4 minutes ago, 22A said:

Apparently Wales didn't wear the poppy in case FIFA deducted points or fined them for the "offence".

Sad to see the WFA bottle it against the body that is corrupt FIFA

[WhistleHappy]

For anyone who may be interested but unaware...

There is an incredibly moving remembrance tribute taking part on College Green opposite the Cathedral... its called Shrouds Of The Somme it opened yesterday and runs for a week til the 18th.

There really is a spiritual feeling there and it truly is worth visiting for so many reasons.. (Google it for more info than I can write here.... but I can promise you if you can get there do so and you will 'feel' it in a way you probably never will have before...

19240 men and boys of the British Empire/Commonwealth died on the FIRST DAY of the Battle of the Somme on July 1st 1916.... Those 19240 souls become more than just a number ... each person who gave their lives that day is depicted here in the shape of twelve inch figures individually posed and shrouded by the hand of one man and laid out across a huge area of College Green .... this depicts the loss of life on just the first day of the bloodiest battle in Europes history a battle that continued from July 1st until the 18th November 1916 claiming a total of 127,751.

A huge tent contains an overwhelming number of alphabetical lists containing the names and details of the guys who lives were claimed in this battle.... many will find their family connections to the Battle of the Somme listed here, named and remembered. Lest we Forget.

[22A]

8 minutes ago, WhistleHappy said:

19240 men and boys of the British Empire/Commonwealth died on the FIRST DAY of the Battle of the Somme on July 1st 1916....

What was so annoying is that Britain had intended launching the major offensive in September 2016 and were still preparing for it in June. There had been mutinies in the French army though and the French generals pleaded with us to "attack now" just to relive pressure on them so order could be restored in the French army.

[cityexile]

5 minutes ago, 22A said:

What was so annoying is that Britain had intended launching the major offensive in September 2016 and were still preparing for it in June. There had been mutinies in the French army though and the French generals pleaded with us to "attack now" just to relive pressure on them so order could be restored in the French army.

True enough, Verdun was draining the French will to resist.

It is arguable that if we had not, the French would have collapsed and the war would have been lost. 

[Norn Iron]

The first day of the Somme went well for a few. One of the Companies, at the end of the line, broke through to the German trenches but then returned as ordered. 

What summed up the first day for me was that only around 400 Germans died on the first day. One German soldier wrote in his diary that had the British run instead of walk across, it would have been over.

I remembered last night.

I remembered at 7.45 pm.

I saw the face of the bugler.

I heard the genuine sadness and remembrance in his playing. 

I am more than grateful for those who sacrificed their life so that I might live. 

It's not just a poppy. it's more than that. 

If FIFA want to make it into a legal case then hopefully England can say "Do you know what? Stuff the World Cup. We're not going."

We're rubbish anyway so it would save us a lot of grief!