Fc uk FIFA ... wear The POPPY

[One Team In Keynsham]

9 hours ago, WayOutWest said:

Wear one, don't wear one.  Fine by me. However I will mostly likely ask you if you don't wear one why not?

I served in the Royal Navy as did my Dad and my uncle.  My Grandad served in Burma WWII.  I mostly wear it for him. 

We need to keep these traditions strong. Each day that passes we lose more and more of those that fought.  Soon like the first world War there will be none left. Then it's left to history and written word. 

It's a time to reflect on those we have lost. It's a time to reflect on those we will lose eventually and how important it is to them. For them it's friends and love ones. 

It should never be forced. I would find it  hard to imagine there is anyone in our country that doesn't willingly want to wear one. 

Stevo 

 

 

 

Steve,

I generally don't wear a poppy, but this is mutually exclusive from remembering and valuing the sacrifices made by those in WW1 and WW2;  one grandfather saw action in WW2 in the tank regiments in North Africa and the other served in merchant navy. I stopped wearing one when people started getting hounded for not wearing one:  it's one's personal choice, and I have more empathy with James McClean than I do with anyone telling me what I should be doing because they see wearing/not-wearing the poppy as a binary display of either 1) supporting the troops or 2) effectively taking a large shite on the Cenotaph.

[oldstandrobin]

10 hours ago, WayOutWest said:

Wear one, don't wear one.  Fine by me. However I will mostly likely ask you if you don't wear one why not?

I served in the Royal Navy as did my Dad and my uncle.  My Grandad served in Burma WWII.  I mostly wear it for him. 

We need to keep these traditions strong. Each day that passes we lose more and more of those that fought.  Soon like the first world War there will be none left. Then it's left to history and written word. 

It's a time to reflect on those we have lost. It's a time to reflect on those we will lose eventually and how important it is to them. For them it's friends and love ones. 

It should never be forced. I would find it  hard to imagine there is anyone in our country that doesn't willingly want to wear one. 

Stevo 

 

 

 

Well said. I was in the RAF and on Remembrance Day I wear mine to remember all who fell to give us the right to have forums like this and freedom of speech I also remember my dad, ex Fleet Air Arm, and gramps, Ex Black Watch WW1.

 

The poppy symbolises the freedom paid for by other people's sacrifice.

[Son of Fred]

On 01/11/2016 at 04:13, WhistleHappy said:

 Fc uk the FA too if they refuse to grow a pair and defy FIFA...

It's FIFA who are making the Remembrance Poppy 'political'  - nobody else! ...so lets stand up for The Poppy, wear it on our shirts  alongside the three lions with pride for those it really represents.

 Fc uk  the corrupt FIFA dictatorship and anyone else who refuses to oppose it too .... in a new peaceful war standing up for the freedoms from dictatorships those who fought and died to win for us many years ago. 

Or replace the Three Lions with hamsters, and watch the FA die. 

     

 

Wear it,and with pride-stuff em all.

[TV Tom]

Some great and sensible posts here, for what it's worth I'm all for remembering all the brave soldiers that died during the 2 World wars but there is a time and place for this and a football pitch is not one of them, I shall be down the Cenotaph on Remembrance Sunday and then quietly make my way home, I have not bought a poppy for 30 years, does this make me a bad person?

[phantom]

For what it is worth, you can sign this https://www.change.org/p/fifa-let-england-and-scotland-footballers-wear-their-poppies-with-pride

 

[Turkey]

On 01/11/2016 at 15:40, Portland Bill said:

Personally I don't understand the big fuss, we haven't worn a poppy on the England international shirt for 100 plus years, so why is it so important now.

Everyone in the crowd can wear a poppy and there can be a ceremony and a minutes silence before the match takes place............ as there always has been at football matches this time of the year.

This, it's stupid. I'm more annoyed about Scotland playing in Pink. Play in traditional colours ffs.

[Portland Bill]

This tweet I've just read sums up this whole debate, 

Footballers not wearing plastic flowers- "Outrageous" Actual soldier dies from benefit sanctions- not so much.

[Ashtonwurzel]

27 minutes ago, Portland Bill said:

This tweet I've just read sums up this whole debate, 

Footballers not wearing plastic flowers- "Outrageous" Actual soldier dies from benefit sanctions- not so much.

Quite

[One Team In Keynsham]

As usual, the Daily Mail reader comments on this outrageous (sic) poppy ban make good reading, and it is generally difficult to separate actual deluded comments from top-notch wummery:

- SHAME!!! Tell FIFA that we are wearing the poppy weather they like it or not, if they don't like it, The British isles teams should pull out of the world cup. which comes first? PRIDE or FOOTBALL
 

- Oi stop crying you namby pamby multi millionaires Put the armbands on before match and 1off you take a microphone with you. Walk out with your heads held up high. With microphone linked to speakers, ask the fans if you should take them off or keep them on. Every fan in the stadium will scream in unison keep them on. Then say on microphone, if anyone comes on to pitch to take the arm bands we cannot guarantee their . safety. .
 

- Which side is FIFI on? PC brigade at work. Don't they care about showing respect to thousands who died for the peace we have today?
 

- This is not our country anymore and we have let this happen.
 

- If they dont wear a poppy to respect they can forget their big wages because we the football followers won't go to watch disrespect so no ticket sales
 

- Why should we be so PC, whose country is this, if those from overseas are offended, why settle here. Can you see other countries observing our beliefs, no we have to fall in line with their rules and beliefs. It is time for all of this to stop. We are letting them take over, or is just our spineless officials.
 

- They died so that you can play the wretched game in peace, so wear them

[GodEmperor Palpatine]

9 hours ago, Collis1 said:

Here is a few that spring to mind.  I'm not proud of most of these, but I am a pacifist - I am sure others will argue they were all entirely necessary:

• Indian Rebellion 1857
• New Zealand land wars 1845–1872
• Second Anglo-Sikh War 1848–1849
• Second Ashanti War 1863–1864
• Bhutan War 1864–1865
• Third Ashanti War 1873–1874
• Second Anglo-Afghan War 1878–1888
• Anglo-Zulu War 1879
• Second Anglo Marri War 1880
• First Boer War 1880–1881
• Boxer Rebellion ended 1901
• Anglo-Aro War 1901–1902
• Second Boer War ended 1902
• Third Anglo Marri War 1917
• Third Afghan War 1919
• Irish War of Independence 1919–1921
• Malayan Emergency 1948–1960
• Korean War 1950–1953
• Mau Mau Uprising 1952–1960
• Cypriot Independence 1955–1959
• Suez Crisis 1956–1957
• Brunei Revolt 1962–1966
• Indonesia–Malaysia confrontation 1962-1966
• Dhofar Rebellion 1962–1975
• Aden Emergency 1963
• Operation Banner 1969–2007
• Falklands War 1982
• Gulf War 1990–1991
• Yugoslav wars 1991–2001
• Kosovo War 1998–1999
• Yugoslav wars ended 2001
• Iraq War 2003–2008
• War in Afghanistan 2001–2014
• Military intervention against the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant 2014–present
• War in Afghanistan (2015–present)

 

 

 

'springs to mind'

*looked up on wikipedia

[T R]

Someone should question FIFA why they are holding a tournament in Russia, while the Russians forces are carrying out war crimes in Syria. 

Personally, I would like to see England pull out of the tournament

                                                                         

[Fiale]

Good god what a lot of crap about nothing. Just wear it, don't wear it, it's up to you no one is or should force you one way or another - FIFA should just leave nations to it, good god, talk about creating mountains out of molehills.

[The Bard]

In my lifetime there have been subtle shifts in the meaning of Armistice Day.  Pre-Falklands it was very much about remembering those who died with the focus on the 2 world wars.  After then it's become more politicised - it's meaning has been hijacked by the right wing. Frankly if our current PM had any integrity she wouldn't have been so desperate as to use a set up question in Question Time to get a few headlines.  Even David Cameron showed more restraint when this issue cropped up in 2011.

Our soldiers sign up no matter the wrongs or rights of a particular war.  The disastrous war in Iraq was the single worst decision made by a British PM for possibly a century.  Just because the war was wrong it doesn't mean that the men and women who died during it shouldn't be shown the same respect as say a Battle of Britain pilot.  Perhaps they should be shown more when you consider the situation they were put into and the overriding reasons for the war in the first place (which had nothing to do with our National Security).  Our men and women were stitched up basically and it is shameful that someone who voted for this is now so blatantly using this nonsense to portray herself as someone who stands up for our troops.  She's a complete fraud.  I hope people aren't sucked in by this shit. 

Oh, and FIFA are irrelevant when you think about it aren't they?  Don't waste your energy being annoyed about them.  

[22A]

Those poppies represent those who died stopping foreigners from telling Brits what we can & can't do.

As was mentioned on TV tonight; Ireland wore a special symbol on their shirts earlier this year commemorating the centenary of the Easter Uprising.

THAT is a political statement which is what FIFA object to. The latest update is that the FA want to know what punishment will be inflicted if the teams do wear the poppy on November 11th. If it's a fine, then the poppy will be worn; if it's a points deduction then it won't.

[Midlands Robin]

Well that suggests that if FIFA want to claim the high ground but let the teams go and wear poppies they will threaten a fine but if FIFA really don't want them on the shirts they'll threaten to deduct points.

Either way, giving FIFA our options before hand is a bit silly.

[22A]

Breaking news this evening; the FA have announced the England football team WILL wear black armbands with poppies on them for their November 11th match.

[marshy]

[Stortz]

2 hours ago, Threshing Red said:

Someone should question FIFA why they are holding a tournament in Russia, while the Russians forces are carrying out war crimes in Syria. 

Personally, I would like to see England pull out of the tournament

                                                                         

Although I agree with your sentiments regarding Syria, if we're not forgetting generally as per your jpeg, then untold millions more Russian civilians and soldiers died in both world wars to 'ensure our way of life' than every other country put together.

You can guarantee their action in Syria is being portrayed as a noble, selfless sacrifice in their media today. It's just a question of who is supplying the information.

[Stortz]

1 hour ago, 22A said:

Those poppies represent those who died stopping foreigners from telling Brits what we can & can't do.

As was mentioned on TV tonight; Ireland wore a special symbol on their shirts earlier this year commemorating the centenary of the Easter Uprising.

THAT is a political statement which is what FIFA object to. The latest update is that the FA want to know what punishment will be inflicted if the teams do wear the poppy on November 11th. If it's a fine, then the poppy will be worn; if it's a points deduction then it won't.

Bloody hell mate, are you sure about that?

I respectfully suggest that you are missing the point of the entire poppy idea if that is what you're taking from it.

[NickJ]

11 hours ago, Collis1 said:

Here is a few that spring to mind.  I'm not proud of most of these, but I am a pacifist - I am sure others will argue they were all entirely necessary:

• Indian Rebellion 1857
• New Zealand land wars 1845–1872
• Second Anglo-Sikh War 1848–1849
• Second Ashanti War 1863–1864
• Bhutan War 1864–1865
• Third Ashanti War 1873–1874
• Second Anglo-Afghan War 1878–1888
• Anglo-Zulu War 1879
• Second Anglo Marri War 1880
• First Boer War 1880–1881
• Boxer Rebellion ended 1901
• Anglo-Aro War 1901–1902
• Second Boer War ended 1902
• Third Anglo Marri War 1917
• Third Afghan War 1919
• Irish War of Independence 1919–1921
• Malayan Emergency 1948–1960
• Korean War 1950–1953
• Mau Mau Uprising 1952–1960
• Cypriot Independence 1955–1959
• Suez Crisis 1956–1957
• Brunei Revolt 1962–1966
• Indonesia–Malaysia confrontation 1962-1966
• Dhofar Rebellion 1962–1975
• Aden Emergency 1963
• Operation Banner 1969–2007
• Falklands War 1982
• Gulf War 1990–1991
• Yugoslav wars 1991–2001
• Kosovo War 1998–1999
• Yugoslav wars ended 2001
• Iraq War 2003–2008
• War in Afghanistan 2001–2014
• Military intervention against the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant 2014–present
• War in Afghanistan (2015–present)

 

 

 

"British" wars? Have a word with yourself.

[gl1]

With all this talk of patriotism, nationalism, politics, just wars, unjust wars, wars started by us, wars started by them, the reason I support the poppy and will contribute via donation this year as I always do and wear the poppy is for one simple reason.

Men and women, just like you and I, most likely following orders regardless of whether they have debated internally the justness of serving in their particular service lost their lives. For someone to pay the ultimate price, with their life I feel a duty to honour their memory. Do we praise and memorialise the memory of a servicemen who lost his life fighting fascism - a noble cause, but not a servicemen who lost is life fighting what i believe to be an illegal war (Afghanistan) ? For me, I respect both equally, to lose ones life in the duty of service deserves my utmost respect. If people are offended by that fine, but dont offend me, by telling me how or why or why not I should not honour the dead of my fellow countrymen.

The largest most destructive war the world has even seen saw millions of lives lost on every side, the innocent and the guilty. If it has not been for us, and the other allies, this argument would probably have never happened as it would be unlikely that the winner would have sanctioned or allowed the countries involved here to  paticipate in national sports.

If Fifa ban the poppies due to their rulebook thats fine and dandy, but for me its important we all never forget the people who paid the ultimate price and the FA if they wanted to could mark the event in other ways, it does not need to be poppies on the shirt.

14 minutes ago, Stortz said:

Bloody hell mate, are you sure about that?

I respectfully suggest that you are missing the point of the entire poppy idea if that is what you're taking from it.

 

[reddoh]

4 minutes ago, gl1 said:

With all this talk of patriotism, nationalism, politics, just wars, unjust wars, wars started by us, wars started by them, the reason I support the poppy and will contribute via donation this year as I always do and wear the poppy is for one simple reason.

Men and women, just like you and I, most likely following orders regardless of whether they have debated internally the justness of serving in their particular service lost their lives. For someone to pay the ultimate price, with their life I feel a duty to honour their memory. Do we praise and memorialise the memory of a servicemen who lost his life fighting fascism - a noble cause, but not a servicemen who lost is life fighting what i believe to be an illegal war (Afghanistan) ? For me, I respect both equally, to lose ones life in the duty of service deserves my utmost respect. If people are offended by that fine, but dont offend me, by telling me how or why or why not I should not honour the dead of my fellow countrymen.

The largest most destructive war the world has even seen saw millions of lives lost on every side, the innocent and the guilty. If it has not been for us, and the other allies, this argument would probably have never happened as it would be unlikely that the winner would have sanctioned or allowed the countries involved here to  paticipate in national sports.

If Fifa ban the poppies due to their rulebook thats fine and dandy, but for me its important we all never forget the people who paid the ultimate price and the FA if they wanted to could mark the event in other ways, it does not need to be poppies on the shirt.

 

the victor writes the history, most written is boll ocks

[gl1]

4 minutes ago, reddoh said:

the victor writes the history, most written is boll ocks

True to a degree, hard to say the gas chambers, the concentration camps, and the independently verified accounts of war atrocities were fiction made up by the victors though?

[NickJ]

6 minutes ago, gl1 said:

With all this talk of patriotism, nationalism, politics, just wars, unjust wars, wars started by us, wars started by them, the reason I support the poppy and will contribute via donation this year as I always do and wear the poppy is for one simple reason.

Men and women, just like you and I, most likely following orders regardless of whether they have debated internally the justness of serving in their particular service lost their lives. For someone to pay the ultimate price, with their life I feel a duty to honour their memory. Do we praise and memorialise the memory of a servicemen who lost his life fighting fascism - a noble cause, but not a servicemen who lost is life fighting what i believe to be an illegal war (Afghanistan) ? For me, I respect both equally, to lose ones life in the duty of service deserves my utmost respect. If people are offended by that fine, but dont offend me, by telling me how or why or why not I should not honour the dead of my fellow countrymen.

The largest most destructive war the world has even seen saw millions of lives lost on every side, the innocent and the guilty. If it has not been for us, and the other allies, this argument would probably have never happened as it would be unlikely that the winner would have sanctioned or allowed the countries involved here to  paticipate in national sports.

If Fifa ban the poppies due to their rulebook thats fine and dandy, but for me its important we all never forget the people who paid the ultimate price and the FA if they wanted to could mark the event in other ways, it does not need to be poppies on the shirt.

 

Absolutely right. People who talk of being pacifists and the UK being involved in unjustified conflicts and so on conveniently overlook the fact that had it not been for our country, Jews, gypsies, blacks, and on an on would have been wiped out. Yes of course there have been mistakes - I for one have my own views about our historical involvement in Ireland for example - but the bottom line for me is that a refusal to recognize what is not just a national, but a Commonwealth day of remembrance for ordinary brave men and women, is an insult to those people.

FIFA have been shown to be a corrupt organization. That our FA, and the SFA, do not have the balls to stand up to this bunch of misfits is, frankly, embarrassing.

[reddoh]

2 minutes ago, gl1 said:

True to a degree, hard to say the gas chambers, the concentration camps, and the independently verified accounts of war atrocities were fiction made up by the victors though?

Very True , and I totally agree with you .

[Stortz]

28 minutes ago, gl1 said:

With all this talk of patriotism, nationalism, politics, just wars, unjust wars, wars started by us, wars started by them, the reason I support the poppy and will contribute via donation this year as I always do and wear the poppy is for one simple reason.

Men and women, just like you and I, most likely following orders regardless of whether they have debated internally the justness of serving in their particular service lost their lives. For someone to pay the ultimate price, with their life I feel a duty to honour their memory. Do we praise and memorialise the memory of a servicemen who lost his life fighting fascism - a noble cause, but not a servicemen who lost is life fighting what i believe to be an illegal war (Afghanistan) ? For me, I respect both equally, to lose ones life in the duty of service deserves my utmost respect. If people are offended by that fine, but dont offend me, by telling me how or why or why not I should not honour the dead of my fellow countrymen.

The largest most destructive war the world has even seen saw millions of lives lost on every side, the innocent and the guilty. If it has not been for us, and the other allies, this argument would probably have never happened as it would be unlikely that the winner would have sanctioned or allowed the countries involved here to  paticipate in national sports.

If Fifa ban the poppies due to their rulebook thats fine and dandy, but for me its important we all never forget the people who paid the ultimate price and the FA if they wanted to could mark the event in other ways, it does not need to be poppies on the shirt.

 

I agree with virtually everything you've said mate, but I'm not sure why you've quoted me there?

It makes no difference to my objection to @22A's narrow view of what the poppy supposedly signifies? To whit, he claims that the each poppy symbolises a 'Brit' struggle against foreigners 'telling us what to do'. Surely you're not supporting that argument, regardless of whether you wear a poppy or not?

[downendcity]

FIFA has suggested a compromise. 

They will let England have a poppy on  their shirts as long as they wear the red change strip.

[cityironman]

Fifa is an organisation that has been built on massive corruption. To allow these people to tell us how to honour our war dead would be a huge insult to those that we seek to honour.

Let them punish us if they so wish, but at least we can hold our heads high!

[Kingswood Robin]

47 minutes ago, downendcity said:

FIFA has suggested a compromise. 

They will let England have a poppy on  their shirts as long as they wear the red change strip.

If true, I have to say I find that absolutely pathetic.

For what it's worth, I don't think anyone should be forced to wear a poppy, it's a personal choice. I do however know a few people that have become anti-poppy, mainly due to the Iraq war, which I find strange. That was a terrible political decision and in no way reflects on service people involved. That war in no way diminishes the efforts of the servicemen, nurses, women in munitions factories or anyone connected with the war effort for which the poppy is a way (not the only way) of remembering them. Quite simply, they saved us from oblivion.

As to whether it's appropriate at a football match, there's a long tradition of respectful remembrance at football matches for all sorts of things. As this match is being played on this special day, if the players want to wear one, then I think it's completely acceptable.

[WhistleHappy]

http://in.reuters.com/article/soccer-world-poppy-may-idINKBN12X1KU 

"I have to say to FIFA that before they start telling us what to do, they jolly well ought to sort their own house out" ...Teresa May.

Its not often you'll hear me agreeing with or praising a Tory ..... but credit where credits due ...

Nice one TM ... 'well done and well said' Prime Minister.

Good common sense prevails  ...... We're going with black armbands with Poppy's on them  .......

so another rarity -

.... well done to the English & Scottish FA's for the decisions finally taken on this matter.