gl1 Posted November 3, 2016 Report Share Posted November 3, 2016 9 hours ago, Stortz said: I agree with virtually everything you've said mate, but I'm not sure why you've quoted me there? It makes no difference to my objection to @22A's narrow view of what the poppy supposedly signifies? To whit, he claims that the each poppy symbolises a 'Brit' struggle against foreigners 'telling us what to do'. Surely you're not supporting that argument, regardless of whether you wear a poppy or not? sorry mate, my mistake, just meant to hit reply, not sure why I quoted you - I certainly wasn't suggesting you are anti poppy or whatever. Like you, I do not believe each poppy is symbolising a Brit struggle against foreigners telling us what to do. I am with you totalyl Stortz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedM Posted November 3, 2016 Report Share Posted November 3, 2016 I missed who said it (someone connected with football?) but a while ago on the radio he suggested the players stick or draw a poppy on the back of their right hands for the match. When the sing the national anthem and put their hand on their heart it will show the world, attracting loads of publicity that it would otherwise not have got if they had simply put on Poppy shirts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonM88 Posted November 3, 2016 Report Share Posted November 3, 2016 24 minutes ago, RedM said: I missed who said it (someone connected with football?) but a while ago on the radio he suggested the players stick or draw a poppy on the back of their right hands for the match. When the sing the national anthem and put their hand on their heart it will show the world, attracting loads of publicity that it would otherwise not have got if they had simply put on Poppy shirts. It's not about publicity at all. It's about showing respect for those that have died fighting for us. I'm sure the FA and the Royal British Legion would have rather this go through under the radar, and not grab any headlines. This whole debarcle shouldn't even be a thing. If people want to remember those that have helped maintained their freedom whilst paying the ultimate sacrifice, there should be no one that can say they're not allowed to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashtonwurzel Posted November 3, 2016 Report Share Posted November 3, 2016 What happens if one of the players would rather not wear a poppy ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gl1 Posted November 3, 2016 Report Share Posted November 3, 2016 5 minutes ago, Ashtonwurzel said: What happens if one of the players would rather not wear a poppy ? Up to them, no one should be forced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonM88 Posted November 3, 2016 Report Share Posted November 3, 2016 7 minutes ago, Ashtonwurzel said: What happens if one of the players would rather not wear a poppy ? He shouldn't have to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC Jimmer Posted November 3, 2016 Report Share Posted November 3, 2016 10 hours ago, NickJ said: Absolutely right. People who talk of being pacifists and the UK being involved in unjustified conflicts and so on conveniently overlook the fact that had it not been for our country, Jews, gypsies, blacks, and on an on would have been wiped out. Yes of course there have been mistakes - I for one have my own views about our historical involvement in Ireland for example - but the bottom line for me is that a refusal to recognize what is not just a national, but a Commonwealth day of remembrance for ordinary brave men and women, is an insult to those people. I think you are pretty wide of the mark here Nick, but you are clearly passionate about this issue. Someone deciding not to wear a poppy is not a calculated insult to servicemen, or anybody for that matter but you seem to think it is. You can show respect in other ways. Also, putting our involvement in for example the middle east down to 'Mistakes' is not really true. You can't put into words the torture that millions of people of innocent people have endured due to what can only be described as a calamity of politicians that went to war on completely false pretenses. Its people like you who have created this culture of someone on TV getting absolutely lynched if they make the decision not to wear a poppy. Is that the kind of society you want? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exAtyeoMax Posted November 3, 2016 Report Share Posted November 3, 2016 14 minutes ago, JasonM88 said: It's not about publicity at all. It's about showing respect for those that have died fighting for us. I'm sure the FA and the Royal British Legion would have rather this go through under the radar, and not grab any headlines. This whole debarcle shouldn't even be a thing. If people want to remember those that have helped maintained their freedom whilst paying the ultimate sacrifice, there should be no one that can say they're not allowed to do that. Yes we all understand that. I think RedM is talking about adverse publicity for FIFA, who has created the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted November 3, 2016 Report Share Posted November 3, 2016 8 hours ago, Kingswood Robin said: If true, I have to say I find that absolutely pathetic. For what it's worth, I don't think anyone should be forced to wear a poppy, it's a personal choice. I do however know a few people that have become anti-poppy, mainly due to the Iraq war, which I find strange. That was a terrible political decision and in no way reflects on service people involved. That war in no way diminishes the efforts of the servicemen, nurses, women in munitions factories or anyone connected with the war effort for which the poppy is a way (not the only way) of remembering them. Quite simply, they saved us from oblivion. As to whether it's appropriate at a football match, there's a long tradition of respectful remembrance at football matches for all sorts of things. As this match is being played on this special day, if the players want to wear one, then I think it's completely acceptable. Kingswood, My apologies, as I should have added to my post, as it was meant tongue in cheek and to reflect how FIFA appear to be making a mountain out of a molehill ( red poppy on a red shirt!!!). As I've commented already, FIFA's aproach and attitude has made this a political issue, when it never was ( in my opinion). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedM Posted November 3, 2016 Report Share Posted November 3, 2016 18 minutes ago, JasonM88 said: It's not about publicity at all. It's about showing respect for those that have died fighting for us. I'm sure the FA and the Royal British Legion would have rather this go through under the radar, and not grab any headlines. This whole debarcle shouldn't even be a thing. If people want to remember those that have helped maintained their freedom whilst paying the ultimate sacrifice, there should be no one that can say they're not allowed to do that. Totally agree it's all about respect and rememberance, I get that of course I do. As for publicity, it is a Poppy Appeal, their aim is to raise money to continue the work they do for ex service personnel. No I don't think the Royal British Legion would want this FIFA v FA mess but often the players shirts will be auctioned after the games and donated to the appeal, we've done it ourselves at the club. I would guess similar plans were in place for these England/Scotland shirts. I remember a few years back the Poppy Appeal was 'rebranded' to attract younger people into wearing one or ultimately donating to the fund, wristbands, pin badges, bracelets etc were sold alongside the normal paper poppy. So yes, Respect, Rememberance and donations to fund the work that the Government doesn't do are the aims. A political statement to the world it is not. As the person also said on the radio, FIFA has misinterperated it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midlands Robin Posted November 3, 2016 Report Share Posted November 3, 2016 1 hour ago, RedM said: I missed who said it (someone connected with football?) but a while ago on the radio he suggested the players stick or draw a poppy on the back of their right hands for the match. When the sing the national anthem and put their hand on their heart it will show the world, attracting loads of publicity that it would otherwise not have got if they had simply put on Poppy shirts. It was Danny Murphy, he repeated it on Radio 5 this morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted November 3, 2016 Report Share Posted November 3, 2016 14 hours ago, Fiale said: Good god what a lot of crap about nothing. Just wear it, don't wear it, it's up to you no one is or should force you one way or another - FIFA should just leave nations to it, good god, talk about creating mountains out of molehills. The thing about FIFA and UEFA though, they like to impose uniformity- in basically all areas. On a less serious note but along similar lines, I read that Leicester's post horn gallop pre game was not allowed in this- again UEFA and I guess FIFA too want this uniformity. Namely say the same experience at oh I don't know, the Emirates and at Besiktas's ground or Napoli and Bayern- it's disappointing but these bodies seem to want it. Shame they are so titled towards the big clubs and Leagues though- a plan is for the top 4 from the top 4 Leagues in Europe all to qualify for CL automatically. http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/row-zed/10-bonkers-champions-league-rules-8924148 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portland Bill Posted November 3, 2016 Report Share Posted November 3, 2016 2 hours ago, Ashtonwurzel said: What happens if one of the players would rather not wear a poppy ? We all know that he would be hounded by the media, classed as unpatriotic and his life made a misery for years to come. That's 2016 Britain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ciderhead433 Posted November 3, 2016 Report Share Posted November 3, 2016 On 01/11/2016 at 06:18, Barrs Court Red said: My first thought was "oh no, not this argument again" but it opens up some interesting thoughts. Let's say ex-prime minister and war criminal Tony Blair dies, would FIFA object to black arm bands? So now were into politics i thought we were talking about the poppy not some hate Bllair campaign Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Red Hat Posted November 3, 2016 Report Share Posted November 3, 2016 16 hours ago, Threshing Red said: Someone should question FIFA why they are holding a tournament in Russia, while the Russians forces are carrying out war crimes in Syria. Personally, I would like to see England pull out of the tournament So it's only the Russians that are committing war crimes? Hmmm.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Maesknoll Red Posted November 3, 2016 Admin Report Share Posted November 3, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted November 3, 2016 Report Share Posted November 3, 2016 http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p04dwp6j Interesting- sets a precedent. Supposing Serbia play a game on one of their anniversaries, yes in those regions they commemorate military victories/heroic defeats back from the 1380s. Kosovo 1389, they play on that date vs say Croatia- well you can imagine the issues that would cause. Or even worse they play us, after our involvement there was controversial. There's tons and tons of examples round the world- say Argentina wear a "Malvinas is Argentine" badge or something as their new logo and are drawn against England, would we be happy about that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashtonwurzel Posted November 3, 2016 Report Share Posted November 3, 2016 2 hours ago, Portland Bill said: We all know that he would be hounded by the media, classed as unpatriotic and his life made a misery for years to come. That's 2016 Britain. Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashtonwurzel Posted November 3, 2016 Report Share Posted November 3, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted November 3, 2016 Admin Report Share Posted November 3, 2016 6 hours ago, RedM said: I missed who said it (someone connected with football?) but a while ago on the radio he suggested the players stick or draw a poppy on the back of their right hands for the match. When the sing the national anthem and put their hand on their heart it will show the world, attracting loads of publicity that it would otherwise not have got if they had simply put on Poppy shirts. 5 hours ago, Midlands Robin said: It was Danny Murphy, he repeated it on Radio 5 this morning. @RedM @Midlands Robin Close it was Danny Mills - surprisingly something sensible from him for a change ! Royal British Legion could then "market" these temporary tattoo's for sales in the future ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R Posted November 3, 2016 Report Share Posted November 3, 2016 3 hours ago, Roger Red Hat said: So it's only the Russians that are committing war crimes? Hmmm.... Yes my friend I know that but Russia will be holding a world cup tournament in a couple of years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfOfWestStreet Posted November 3, 2016 Report Share Posted November 3, 2016 Wish there was a FIFA ban on political mesages on this measge board. Boring knob waving know alls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickJ Posted November 3, 2016 Report Share Posted November 3, 2016 7 hours ago, Collis1 said: I think you are pretty wide of the mark here Nick, but you are clearly passionate about this issue. Someone deciding not to wear a poppy is not a calculated insult to servicemen, or anybody for that matter but you seem to think it is. You can show respect in other ways. Also, putting our involvement in for example the middle east down to 'Mistakes' is not really true. You can't put into words the torture that millions of people of innocent people have endured due to what can only be described as a calamity of politicians that went to war on completely false pretenses. Its people like you who have created this culture of someone on TV getting absolutely lynched if they make the decision not to wear a poppy. Is that the kind of society you want? The thing is, poppy day is to honour the brave men and women who gave in order to protect our country and at times innocent oppressed people all over the world, not politicians who may or may not have made a mess of things. You say you are a pacifist. What does that mean, exactly? The literal meaning, in the world of the pacifist, is that war and violence is completely unacceptable. Nobody wants war, or violence. But such thinking if applied in 1939, for example, would have been a green light for Hitler to march his way through Europe and almost certainly we would not be having this conversation. I'm not advocating what you suggest in your last sentence at all, nowhere do I even suggest it. As for your wiki-list of "British" wars, really?! Like, do you mean we had a war with ourselves, or were the wars all our fault? Kosovo????? Are you actually serious? My original post was a criticism of the FA and SFA for not standing up to a grubby corrupt organization like FIFA. Thankfully, they now have gone some way to doing so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddoh Posted November 3, 2016 Report Share Posted November 3, 2016 19 hours ago, reddoh said: The Allies Australia Belgium Brazil Canada China Czechoslovakia Denmark Estonia France Greece India Latvia Lithuania Malta The Netherlands New Zealand Norway Poland South Africa United Kingdom United States USSR Yugoslavia and others. fought for the united kingdom and are remembered also those who fought for Germany Italy and Japan(the majority would rather been at home with their families) all the civilians caught up in the conflicts through no fault of their own. the list is really endless. but on the 11th I will do my best to remember them all with or without a poppy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashtonwurzel Posted November 3, 2016 Report Share Posted November 3, 2016 3 hours ago, WolfOfWestStreet said: Wish there was a FIFA ban on political mesages on this measge board. Boring knob waving know alls Brexit voter ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EstoniaTallinnRed Posted November 3, 2016 Report Share Posted November 3, 2016 3 hours ago, WolfOfWestStreet said: Wish there was a FIFA ban on political mesages on this measge board. Boring knob waving know alls Yes and the fact is that most or even all of them have never even visited Moscow or even lived there, I lived there with my wife for 6 months and I can imagine it's not much different to live in than lot's of big Cities in Western Europe, I am not saying the place is perfect, but neither is the UK, or lot's of other countries and they seem to care more about their own people than any of our recent Government have done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted November 4, 2016 Admin Report Share Posted November 4, 2016 Back on topic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted November 4, 2016 Report Share Posted November 4, 2016 Interestingly, it is quite possible the opposition has to complain to risk a points deduction- so us and Scotland should be okay. Wales though- would think Serbia would take offence really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballwinningcentrehalf Posted November 5, 2016 Report Share Posted November 5, 2016 When did a poppy on football kits become a thing anyway? I'm sure I remember slightly more than a decade ago nobody particularly had a care whether they were displayed anywhere on an England shirt at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CotswoldRed Posted November 5, 2016 Report Share Posted November 5, 2016 1 hour ago, ballwinningcentrehalf said: When did a poppy on football kits become a thing anyway? I'm sure I remember slightly more than a decade ago nobody particularly had a care whether they were displayed anywhere on an England shirt at all. I sympathise with this view somewhat but change is fine. It doesn't alter the principle of what is being requested of Fifa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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