I would sack Johnson now

[JamesBCFC]

3 hours ago, Fordy62 said:

Here's my take. 

Would I sack LJ now? Hmmmm. I'd certainly be considering it, that is unless I wanted to save face because I'd just had him sign a contract extension. 

It was a risky appointment. They say you shouldn't mix business with pleasure and SL appointing a family friend as manager is not looking the wisest of moves right now. 

The only reason that axe isn't hovering is because SL is good mates with LJ & GJ, which in itself is silliness. No other manager would have been afforded the same grace that LJ is - and is that right? I hope it proves to be!

Ordinarily a manager would be seeking a vote of confidence... LJ doesn't need one... and that's both incredibly risky and incredibly refreshing!

 

Can't agree with that.

Are you really suggesting LJ was only hired because his family are mates with SL?

Nothing to do with the fact he was (at the time of appointment) one of the highest rated young English managers?

 

May I also remind you just what the form under SO'D was like before he was sacked. Over 44 games we won a total of 11. Johnson has won us 7 more games in less time, his record being better than the one SO'D had in the months before his sacking (with a run of 1 win in 14 games). So SO'D was afforded as much (actually more) grace than LJ has, and that was after overseeing the relegation of the team, unlike the current boss who averted relegation.

[Kodjias Wrist]

10 minutes ago, kivsy said:

Can't see what 3 more signings will do , he signed about 15 players in the summer and half them still can't get a game 

Yeah he didn't sign all for the here and now, it was for the next couple of years but we are all aware including LJ himself that we need players now.

[Rossi the Robin]

Another close game by one goal

It's now a confidence thing and we need to get behind them

The crowd at Preston were vibrant and supportive when we were on top 

we go a goal behind completely against the run of play and the crowd go on a instant downer that spills on to the pitch 

 

[Phileas Fogg]

45 minutes ago, Thornbury Red said:

The biggest problem for me is the quality of the coaching.   not a single player looks better now than they did at the start of the season.  our set pieces (both attacking and defensively) are poorer than most,  and individuals and hence the team are regressing  it's worrying.

Magnusson has improved, Matthews is FAR better than his first few games, I'm sure Abraham himself would say he feels he's improved.

[Kodjias Wrist]

6 minutes ago, Rossi the Robin said:

we go a goal behind completely against the run of play and the crowd go on a instant downer that spills on to the pitch 

 

Only so much people can take. I mean how ******* tedious is it constantly falling behind. Even at 2-1 today people were saying we will lose, thats just where the confidence in the team is at.

[Spoons]

4 minutes ago, Kodjias Wrist said:

Only so much people can take. I mean how ******* tedious is it constantly falling behind. Even at 2-1 today people were saying we will lose, thats just where the confidence in the team is at.

Our job as fans to lift team when needed. Ashton gate isn't a great place to play at the minute, too many fans hoping/waiting for mistakes to happen just so they can get there 'Johnson out' banners out. Very sad

[GodEmperor Palpatine]

31 minutes ago, MarkRed! said:

There is no chance LJ will be sacked and sacking the manager is not the solution. It has not worked for BCFC and we have had more duds than successes. Was Millen better than GJ - no. Was McInnes betters than Millen - No. Was O-driscoll better than McInnes - No. Was SC better than O'Driscoll - err, yep and we sacked a double winning manager when he went through a tough patch. Even our own board sold him out....

We need to continue to back the team and the negativity is misplaced. In fact, we have dispensed with our best managers (GJ and SC) at points of crisis rather than standing by them.... perhaps we need to think about whether we were better off without them in the longer term.... I would suggest not. Thus, we must stick with and support LJ.

I believe with one or two additions we will be fine. It depends on what fans expect. The Championship is a tough tough league and I would expect us to finish mid-table. If we finish 4th from bottom then that is still an acceptable season... surely  retaining championship status is the key priority and whatever else happens is a bonus?

Sorry if fans want LJ to be sacked for a bad run then its fair to say that SC was justifiably sacked for a far more abysmal run

In terms of the board 'selling out' Cotterill, no they didn't and surely noone (certainly not here) bar Cotterill and the board knows what exactly had happened.

He cut his own throat.... it was plain why he was (and deservedly) canned despite his exploits the season before

[Tinmans Love Child]

Our problem in the last two seasons is conceding goals, yet everyone loves Flint who's played every game, and everyone loves Mags whose played every game with Flint this season, IMO that's where we need to sort things out, 

[RED4LIFE]

The three things in life that are guaranteed are death, taxes and fickle/impatient football fans. 

I think I prefer the first two things over the third.

[Andy082005]

Has the clown gone yet? 

[GodEmperor Palpatine]

3 minutes ago, Andy082005 said:

Has the clown gone yet? 

You're still here so I guess not...

[ChippenhamRed]

1 hour ago, cityloyal473 said:

I'd add one huge caveat to your post: the season isn't finished yet.  Any talk of improvement or progress is way, way too early to call.

"IF the season finished now".

[ScottishRed]

58 minutes ago, Jacki said:

I wouldn't be sacking him just yet, but i am getting concerned now. Since the new contract that's 4 defeats in a row against a Huddersfield side in poor form, a dreadful Brentford side who were there for the taking, ditto v Preston and then by the sounds of things a very similar performance today against another of the division's poorer teams.

At the moment, in the games I've seen we've played some alright stuff at times but have been poor in both boxes. We lack pace and width, and my feeling is that LJ as a 'modern' coach hugely over complicates things with all the tinkering and formation changes. He tries to be too clever by half. 

We're way too reliant on a 19 year old who isn't even our player and we simply can't afford to spend £2m on a striker in Engvall who never plays. I don't blame LJ entirely for those situations but he's certainly played his part. 

As mentioned I still support LJ for now. But for me he needs to stop tinkering and buggering about with the personnel, settle on a formation and just keep it bloody simple. If we had a massive game, a play off for example, tomorrow, I honestly don't think he'd have the first clue what his best team is and that is a huge worry. He talks a lot about identity and a way of playing - he needs to practice what he preaches and get us playing his way, whatever that is, in a formation the players understand. And he needs to stick with it for a number of games instead of making 4 or 5 changes every single game. Keep it simple. If he keeps tinkering like he is he'll end up having to go, which would be a real shame. 

Can't argue with much of that.

i am getting concerned about the lack of a settled team and some of the ' odd' substitutions. When LJ got the job and the Barnsley and Oldam fans came on here with their experiences of him as a manager  I was somewhat nonplused, as things stand right now , they were on the money.

I hope he does turn this around, he is a young head coach and he will make mistakes, my concern is that that he does not appear to know which way to turn now and is throwing all his cards up in the air and hoping for the best.

There is no 'identity' or ' philosophy ' that I see, and despite all the sound bites and excuses we are only a small percentage further forward in 12 months.

i am starting to think that this job came a couple of years too early for LJ.

That said, he was given the job and those that selected him have to now be starting to have some concerns.

The current string of results is starting to become more a blip and the next 5 weeks, both in terms of results and transfers ,could be definitive either way for LJ.

 

 

 

[ChippenhamRed]

1 hour ago, adamski said:

Really, most players or managers? Media coached to sound articulate is not intellect !

Ah, it's all media coaching. My mistake.

Evidently we've already reached the stage on OTIB where any positives about the manager are now explained away as not actually being positives at all. Because it is not permissible to say anything in favour of a struggling manager.

[BobBobSuperBob]

56 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

Can't agree with that.

Are you really suggesting LJ was only hired because his family are mates with SL?

Nothing to do with the fact he was (at the time of appointment) one of the highest rated young English managers?

 

May I also remind you just what the form under SO'D was like before he was sacked. Over 44 games we won a total of 11. Johnson has won us 7 more games in less time, his record being better than the one SO'D had in the months before his sacking (with a run of 1 win in 14 games). So SO'D was afforded as much (actually more) grace than LJ has, and that was after overseeing the relegation of the team, unlike the current boss who averted relegation.

' Nothing to do with the fact he was (at the time of appointment) one of the highest rated young English managers '

 

This keeps getting quoted on here, other than SL & MA I've not heard anyone else in the game state this

Genuine Q - Where does this emanate from ?

You quote it as a comprehensive fact

LJ may or may not have a very successful managerial career ( No - I wouldn't make a change , but I have concerns about a number of things and jury is definitely out for me and if I was SL I'd want some answers about certain aspects)  but where do these tributes actually come from ?

[JamesBCFC]

3 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

' Nothing to do with the fact he was (at the time of appointment) one of the highest rated young English managers '

 

This keeps getting quoted on here, other than SL & MA I've not heard anyone else in the game state this

Where does this emanate from ?

LJ may or may not have a very successful managerial career ( No - I wouldn't make a change , but I have concerns about a number of things and jury is definitely out for me and if I was SL I'd want some answers about certain aspects)  but where does these tributes actually come from ?

http://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/8-worlds-best-young-managers-under-40

 

He was also offered the Man City academy job, and formed contacts at several top Premier League teams.

http://www.somersetlive.co.uk/bristol-city-boss-lee-johnson-contacts-clubs-like/story-28748621-detail/story.html

[BobBobSuperBob]

11 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

http://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/8-worlds-best-young-managers-under-40

 

He was also offered the Man City academy job, and formed contacts at several top Premier League teams.

http://www.somersetlive.co.uk/bristol-city-boss-lee-johnson-contacts-clubs-like/story-28748621-detail/story.html

Fair play - Thanks for replying 

An author of a football magazine article doesn't convince me tbh - one persons opinion

If Sir Alex or suchlike had said it I'd take a bit more notice 

as for the second link that basically reports LJs claims to have 'good links'

He may well have which is good , but doesn't necessarily make him 'one of the highest rated young English managers ' 

Neither does it make it 'fact'

Where is the evidence he was ever offered any job at Man City that keeps getting mentioned ?

He did a good job with Chelsea & the player himself to get Tammy here which is a positive but I'd be happier to read a bit more substance about any other claims

 

[JamesBCFC]

6 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Fair play - Thanks for replying 

An author of a football magazine article doesn't convince me tbh

as for the second link that basically reports LJs claims to have 'good links'

Where is the evidence he was ever offered any job at Man City that keeps getting mentioned ?

He did a good job with Chelsea & the player himself to get Tammy here which is a positive but I'd be happier to read a bit more substance about any other claims

 

I think the number of loans he has had from the big clubs since becoming a manager goes some way to backing up his claims.

Yes players will go out on loan anyway, but, as we heard with Chelsea in the summer the big clubs blacklist some clubs and managers and will not loan to them.

I can't remember where I saw about the Man City job offer, so will have to look when I have some more spare time (getting up for work in 4 hours- knew where I had found the previous links, so didn't need to search)

[pillred]

2 hours ago, Spoons said:

Good start to the season given all the numpties false hope... We will end up roughly where we are now. Small steps, expectations to high. Not a great time to be a city fan but we've had worse. Everyone needs to calm down. January can give us all a boost.

I don't enjoy losing games of football and yes there are some worrying signs especially defensively , but even more reason to stick tight . 9/10 bad games doesn't make you a bad manger.

not in a season, but in a row?

[Redstoke]

3 hours ago, lenred said:

Yes we're now undoubtedly on a shite run (a really shite run tbf) but every loss is by a single goal. We aren't getting battered. We're not getting competely outplayed. We just don't seem to have that final bit of impetus at the moment to get us over the line. But it's still nowhere near as bad as it was allowed to get last year, so LJ's not going anywhere I wouldn't have thought, and we'd do well to get behind him and try and get this turned around. I still believe he can take us places but needs time to do it. We have to accept what we are at the moment and look to build. Patience and I have no doubt we'll progress but it's going to take time. 

Curious to know what makes you think Lee can 'take us places' please explain.

 

[Phileas Fogg]

2 hours ago, adamski said:

Really, most players or managers? Media coached to sound articulate is not intellect !

It's clear from hearing him speak that he's an intelligent guy. 

Also, whilst most of his teammates spent their summer breaks spraying Moët with Wayne Lineker in Marbella - Lee was using his earnings to invest in property and doing his coaching badges. Clearly the behaviour of someone who only 'sounds' intelligent there. 

[RobintheRed Red]

5 hours ago, paulcityfan said:

I am not sure why so people think adding a few signings next month will change the team overnight and reverse the current form.  It is how the team is motivated and managed to play together as a force that makes the results. Its a pretty good team on paper and individually there are some very good players.  There were also some rising young stars too who seem to have lost their ascendency recently, some don't get a game.

But what is most concerning is hearing the manager saying the same thing about new signings changing everything!  He said it today during the post match interview (again), a few new faces etc and the fine margins will change, but is it is a clutching of straws?  So in January a couple/few? new signings come in maybe with magic boots and we thump Newcastle 5-0, and cruise a wembley play off final.... 

But seriously if the slide continues after these signings (if they happen) really it is time for a new team boss.  I hope not, I hope he is right and he should be given this chance to prove the doubters wrong.  But if it fails he should go then.

 

Stop the dressing room fueds would be a good start just like daddy little man syndrome

[Olé]

I would not sack him but I would ask for a new Powerpoint presentation that explained our formation and how we are going to win games with the current formation and approach. If I had given someone millions to spend I would need much much more evidence than I am currently getting from the pitch, that the tactics he chooses to persist with, have long term merit.

At the moment there is zero evidence of what he is trying to do and this has now been the case for weeks. Those of us who wish to be "responsible" would like to promote stability and patience but LJ needs to come to the table with something for everyone to believe in. Sadly the past 3 months we've regressed and LJ flogging to death his poor tactics is at the heart of it. 

[Dynamite Red]

http://bbs.barnsleyfc.org.uk/showthread.php?251642-Bristol-City&mode=hybrid

[boss hogg]

8 hours ago, Kodjias Wrist said:

Completely understand frustrations on here but sacking him is only going to start that same merry go round since GJ left.

We need to accept we are one of the smaller clubs in the league. It annoys me when i see clubs like swansea, blackpool and bournemouth in the prem but it also gives me hope than we can get there. 

We have spent a bit of money yes but on younger players who need time to adapt. He will get money in jan and will add accordingly. 

If we bring in a new manager he will want to bring in his own players and style of play and the merry go round starts again. 

 

 

time to adapt we dont know how good any of them are because there not ever given a chance.

[BRISTOL86]

Why would he be sacked when he's doing better than the man he was brought in to replace?

[boss hogg]

7 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

Why would he be sacked when he's doing better than the man he was brought in to replace?

your not serious, if thats all he has to do then were in massive trouble 

[Fordy62]

6 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

It's clear from hearing him speak that he's an intelligent guy. 

Also, whilst most of his teammates spent their summer breaks spraying Moët with Wayne Lineker in Marbella - Lee was using his earnings to invest in property and doing his coaching badges. Clearly the behaviour of someone who only 'sounds' intelligent there. 

My dad invested in property in the early 90's and I sure as shit wouldn't want him as our next manager. 

[BRISTOL86]

3 hours ago, Olé said:

I would not sack him but I would ask for a new Powerpoint presentation that explained our formation and how we are going to win games with the current formation and approach. If I had given someone millions to spend I would need much much more evidence than I am currently getting from the pitch, that the tactics he chooses to persist with, have long term merit.

At the moment there is zero evidence of what he is trying to do and this has now been the case for weeks. Those of us who wish to be "responsible" would like to promote stability and patience but LJ needs to come to the table with something for everyone to believe in. Sadly the past 3 months we've regressed and LJ flogging to death his poor tactics is at the heart of it. 

Interesting point. You can only assume that discussion has been had with the board. 

I expect (hope) there's been lengthy discussions about January and beyond, and I can only assume the board have total faith in the 'long game' given the recent contract extension. 

Perhaps the board have FINALLY learned that a period of stability is what this small club needs in order to cement a solid foundation at this level. 

People talk about LJ being out of his depth, trying to run before he walks etc - some of our fans could do with a reality check in that regard!

[Gert Mare]

Defeat after defeat. Same errors week in week out. Tinkering during the game. 10 million spent on mostly league one standard players / below average championship standard. No backup strikers. Powerpoint horseshit, possession and position, staying in cages? WTF?!!!!

The happy clappers are going on about people disliking little Lee from his playing days....That is bullshit. If we are building for the future where is the quality amongst the youngsters that we have bought? Most hardly look like gem finds to me? I bet the selling clubs are rubbing their hands?!

Sorry, same old shit at Bristol City. Especially when the board give the manager a contract extension, probably because we stayed up mainly down to the lift generated by Tomlins wizardry in a confidence shot side.

 I wouldn't mind if it was WLDLDLW, but LLLLLLWLLLLLDLLL is not acceptable at any club.

 I fear we are stuck with Lee for a while yet, but we have to act in the January transfer window. Tomlin gave us a lift and we are in need of another one to ease our justified fears.