I would sack Johnson now

[boss hogg]

4 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

Interesting point. You can only assume that discussion has been had with the board. 

I expect (hope) there's been lengthy discussions about January and beyond, and I can only assume the board have total faith in the 'long game' given the recent contract extension. 

Perhaps the board have FINALLY learned that a period of stability is what this small club needs in order to cement a solid foundation at this level. 

People talk about LJ being out of his depth, trying to run before he walks etc - some of our fans could do with a reality check in that regard!

and some fans need to take there rose tinted glasses off .

[BRISTOL86]

5 minutes ago, boss hogg said:

and some fans need to take there rose tinted glasses off .

That literally doesn't even make sense. I'm not an advocate of sacking Johnson but I'm not happy with current form so what are these glasses of which you speak? 

Our fans need to get it into their natch-addled heads that we are a SMALL club in this league.

The foundations need to be laid before you can build a palace. You don't all of a sudden go from certain relegation fodder to walking the league. 

It took us to February last season to get the number of points we achieved by November this year. That's genuine, measurable progress. 

Our fans need to be a little more realistic with their expectations of what 'progress' actually means. 

[City fan 1982]

The trouble is with foundations, Johnson doesn't what bricks to use and is putting them in the wrong place 

[BRISTOL86]

3 minutes ago, kivsy said:

The trouble is with foundations, Johnson doesn't what bricks to use and is putting them in the wrong place 

Well there's no denying we're in a better state under him than Cotterill. 

[Gert Mare]

8 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

That literally doesn't even make sense. I'm not an advocate of sacking Johnson but I'm not happy with current form so what are these glasses of which you speak? 

Our fans need to get it into their natch-addled heads that we are a SMALL club in this league.

The foundations need to be laid before you can build a palace. You don't all of a sudden go from certain relegation fodder to walking the league. 

It took us to February last season to get the number of points we achieved by November this year. That's genuine, measurable progress. 

Our fans need to be a little more realistic with their expectations of what 'progress' actually means. 

Blackpool were a small club in this league, Leicester were a small club in the Premiership. The right manager can make all the difference. 

If you want to build for the future sort it out at the grass roots level. When I was a kid playing it was scouts from Norwich and Southampton snapping up all of the best local boys. Jock Rae used to turn up late and end up with the dregs for City. 

We've got an academy to develop talent. Football is a results driven business these days. We need to stay in the Championship as a priority. If the talent we have paid over the odds for develops they will be gone in less than a 12 month anyway. Hardly a long term plan is it?! 

[bradshaw]

I seem to remember Johnson went thorough a similar spell at Barnsley.

 They only won 4 games in about 25, which we're currently heading for! But I believe we need to give him the time, as Barnsley did to turn it around.

The trouble is our early season form and that of Tammy Abraham raised all of our expectations and now we and Tammy are not reaching those heights our current position looks awful. At the beginning of the season most people would have taken  our current league position and it's only the fact that we have gone from promotion to relegation form that people are in a mad panic. We all just need to keep calm and hope our luck changes and get behind Johnson and the lads to turn it around, as he did at Barnsley and as he did last year with us! 

In my opinion our current squad is too large and Johnson keeps tinkering to try and maintain the happiness of those in the squad, he needs to find a settled 18 and a formation that suits his 11 best players. 

[AshtonGreat]

15 hours ago, Taylor10 said:

I'm a big fan of LJ but his tactics & decisions are becoming a real concern now. Very McInnes like. Square pegs in round holes. Not sure why we keep persisting with 4-3-3 when we don't have one single decent winger at the club. Also Tammy was as isolated as I've seen first half. Too many central midfielders who hold and do little else. We don't break in numbers and it's clear the formation isn't working.

 

having said all of that we didn't deserve anything today in my opinion. Outplayed by a poor Wolves side. Not good.

You make a very solid case for being a big fan

[Bazooka Joe]

1 hour ago, BRISTOL86 said:

Well there's no denying we're in a better state under him than Cotterill. 

Even if that were true, and some would argue otherwise, it's hardly a great achievement.

[BRISTOL86]

19 minutes ago, Bazooka Joe said:

Even if that were true, and some would argue otherwise, it's hardly a great achievement.

It is true. See above. He has delivered the same points in 4 months as Cotterill did in 6. 

And no, it's nothing to shout about. But it's still an improvement. 

But anyone thinking we were going to go from that state to challenging at the top end of the table in one summer has hopefully been given a reality check. 

@Cheesleysmate I get that other small clubs have succeeded but it's the exception, not the rule. It's been shown time and time and time again that and endless merry go round of 12 month managerial sackings and hirings does not a successful club make. 

The board must have immense faith in Johnson's long term plan to have given him a contract extension. It's inexplicable otherwise. 

My hope is that he has learned a lot more in this bad spell than in a much longer good spell. It's obvious where the weak links are in our squad and what needs addressing. I hope he's backed in January but it's not like a summer window where you can do a lot more. 

Staying up this season and consolidating our place as a championship club is priority number one. Although things have been bad lately I don't feel like we are at genuine risk of that not happening. 

Another ten game run like this and I'm sure I'll feel differently. But I do feel - like Johnson - that we're not a million miles away from getting it right. 

We're not getting battered week in week out like we were under Cotterill. It's small margins. I think we're 3 or 4 quality players away from being a good side. I just hope we can get a couple of them in January as I can't see the knives staying blunt until next summer without an upturn in results. 

[Bazooka Joe]

6 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

It is true. See above. He has delivered the same points in 4 months as Cotterill did in 6. 

And no, it's nothing to shout about. But it's still an improvement. 

But anyone thinking we were going to go from that state to challenging at the top end of the table in one summer has hopefully been given a reality check. 

@Cheesleysmate I get that other small clubs have succeeded but it's the exception, not the rule. It's been shown time and time and time again that and endless merry go round of 12 month managerial sackings and hirings does not a successful club make. 

The board must have immense faith in Johnson's long term plan to have given him a contract extension. It's inexplicable otherwise. 

My hope is that he has learned a lot more in this bad spell than in a much longer good spell. It's obvious where the weak links are in our squad and what needs addressing. I hope he's backed in January but it's not like a summer window where you can do a lot more. 

Staying up this season and consolidating our place as a championship club is priority number one. Although things have been bad lately I don't feel like we are at genuine risk of that not happening. 

Another ten game run like this and I'm sure I'll feel differently. But I do feel - like Johnson - that we're not a million miles away from getting it right. 

We're not getting battered week in week out like we were under Cotterill. It's small margins. I think we're 3 or 4 quality players away from being a good side. I just hope we can get a couple of them in January as I can't see the knives staying blunt until next summer without an upturn in results. 

You could be right, we may only be 999,999 miles from getting it right.

I feel reassured.

(I'm not having a dig; just injecting a bit of light-heartedness to something that concerns us all)

 

[Gert Mare]

4 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

It is true. See above. He has delivered the same points in 4 months as Cotterill did in 6. 

And no, it's nothing to shout about. But it's still an improvement. 

But anyone thinking we were going to go from that state to challenging at the top end of the table in one summer has hopefully been given a reality check. 

@Cheesleysmate I get that other small clubs have succeeded but it's the exception, not the rule. It's been shown time and time and time again that and endless merry go round of 12 month managerial sackings and hirings does not a successful club make. 

The board must have immense faith in Johnson's long term plan to have given him a contract extension. It's inexplicable otherwise. 

My hope is that he has learned a lot more in this bad spell than in a much longer good spell. It's obvious where the weak links are in our squad and what needs addressing. I hope he's backed in January but it's not like a summer window where you can do a lot more. 

Staying up this season and consolidating our place as a championship club is priority number one. Although things have been bad lately I don't feel like we are at genuine risk of that not happening. 

Another ten game run like this and I'm sure I'll feel differently. But I do feel - like Johnson - that we're not a million miles away from getting it right. 

We're not getting battered week in week out like we were under Cotterill. It's small margins. I think we're 3 or 4 quality players away from being a good side. I just hope we can get a couple of them in January as I can't see the knives staying blunt until next summer without an upturn in results. 

I hope you are right I really do.

I'm not an LJ hater, but I am becoming increasingly frustrated by the talking of a good game and tactics being followed up with the same mistakes and the same excuses.

 I don't think it takes a managerial genius to see that we are 3 or 4 players short, but why didn't he get those 3 or 4 in the summer? 

We only needed a couple and a change of formation from Steve Cotterill's 3-5-2 suicide which baffles me still to this day, as well as substitutions in the 88th minute only! Pembo only acted upon what everyone else apart from SC could see.

January is when the magnifying glasses will definitely be out and the knives sharpened. Reading the Barnsley forum they mention LJ being stubborn and eventually having to concede his ideas to start dragging Barnsley up the table. That sounds like SC all over again. I hope not!!!!!

 

[AshtonGreat]

13 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

It is true. See above. He has delivered the same points in 4 months as Cotterill did in 6. 

And no, it's nothing to shout about. But it's still an improvement. 

But anyone thinking we were going to go from that state to challenging at the top end of the table in one summer has hopefully been given a reality check. 

@Cheesleysmate I get that other small clubs have succeeded but it's the exception, not the rule. It's been shown time and time and time again that and endless merry go round of 12 month managerial sackings and hirings does not a successful club make. 

The board must have immense faith in Johnson's long term plan to have given him a contract extension. It's inexplicable otherwise. 

My hope is that he has learned a lot more in this bad spell than in a much longer good spell. It's obvious where the weak links are in our squad and what needs addressing. I hope he's backed in January but it's not like a summer window where you can do a lot more. 

Staying up this season and consolidating our place as a championship club is priority number one. Although things have been bad lately I don't feel like we are at genuine risk of that not happening. 

Another ten game run like this and I'm sure I'll feel differently. But I do feel - like Johnson - that we're not a million miles away from getting it right. 

We're not getting battered week in week out like we were under Cotterill. It's small margins. I think we're 3 or 4 quality players away from being a good side. I just hope we can get a couple of them in January as I can't see the knives staying blunt until next summer without an upturn in results. 

So staying up this season and consolidating our place is priority number one...again. Are we ever going to make progress as a club or are we forever going to be the bridesmaid?

[Lanterne Rouge]

4 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said:

So staying up this season and consolidating our place is priority number one...again. Are we ever going to make progress as a club or are we forever going to be the bridesmaid?

I`d rather be a solvent, stable bridesmaid than a broke, foreign owned bride who is likely to go to the wall when the (borrowed) money dries up.

[Redandy]

1 hour ago, BRISTOL86 said:

That literally doesn't even make sense. I'm not an advocate of sacking Johnson but I'm not happy with current form so what are these glasses of which you speak? 

Our fans need to get it into their natch-addled heads that we are a SMALL club in this league.

The foundations need to be laid before you can build a palace. You don't all of a sudden go from certain relegation fodder to walking the league. 

It took us to February last season to get the number of points we achieved by November this year. That's genuine, measurable progress. 

Our fans need to be a little more realistic with their expectations of what 'progress' actually means. 

Who is asking for a Palace. I hoped that with  the signings he made on the back of the form we showed at the end of last season we would have improved. I always thought mid table would be an achievement. I did not expect to be getting considerably worse and sinking like a stone with a manager seemingly incapable of sorting the team out and expecting a load more signings to bail him out.

[Corsham Ed]

5 minutes ago, Bullbag said:

If he stays, we'll be in league one next Season. 

Simple as that.

No we won't. There are worse teams than us in the league.

Come on folks, we're going through a bad patch, but I have no doubt it will turn around. All we need is a small bit of Lady Luck to get us going again.

COYR.

[Swede]

GET A GRIP.

Simply saying we are no better off than last season is rediculous & sacking the manager now when he has just been given a new contract is ludicrous.

We have over achieved in the first half of the season.

I heard somewhere that for the wages we pay we should be 16th in this league.

Last year we changed the manager & were getting to grips with the league.

LJ fits into the philosophy of the club's hyerarchy very well and is very respected in the game.

He is bright and articulate and knows how he wants to play the game.

The Championship is a very tough unforgiving league and we are having to compete now with some very big clubs Aston Villa, Newcastle, Derby, Leeds, Sheffield Weds & not forgetting Brighton which is our blueprint.

We are where we want to be but it will take time to get to the next level.

We have to continually build and evolve like Brighton have. That is the only way to succeed. Sacking the manager now would be such a retrograde step.

We now have the stadium in place to provide the platform the problem is trying to balance everyone's expectations against the constraints of the permitted transfer windows.

Don't get me wrong in order to try and compete at the top end requires continual improvement and that means player turnover both in and out and ultimately that involves the manager at some stage, but not now.

To put it into perspective yesterday we didn't play well by everyone's expectations yet should've got a draw at the end against a club who have been in the top tier who themselves are in a transition period and are regarded as being "a big club"

In the past we would have been expected to lose by four or even six but not now.

We will compete with the likes of Wolves and I expect us to get better as all of the pieces gradually fall into place.

There are many ups and downs in football but in all honesty I would much rather be in our position both on and off the field than quite a few clubs in this league.

Stay calm and always believe.

 

 

[Atticus]

17 hours ago, tinman85 said:

Lansdown, thanks for the stadium but decision making with that board again shocking. He DID NOT need a new contract!!!!!! Chucking away money for no reason. Disgraceful. 

Agreed.

Giving him a new contract is a laughable decision.

[BobBobSuperBob]

3 hours ago, BRISTOL86 said:

That literally doesn't even make sense. I'm not an advocate of sacking Johnson but I'm not happy with current form so what are these glasses of which you speak? 

Our fans need to get it into their natch-addled heads that we are a SMALL club in this league.

The foundations need to be laid before you can build a palace. You don't all of a sudden go from certain relegation fodder to walking the league. 

It took us to February last season to get the number of points we achieved by November this year. That's genuine, measurable progress. 

Our fans need to be a little more realistic with their expectations of what 'progress' actually means. 

Or we could ask the Huddersfield fans what progress means  86 

(Finished below us last season)

Astute signings, well drilled and an established way of playing

[Atticus]

17 hours ago, Shtanley said:

LJ and Mark Ashton of course, if we had a Kodjia and we were 17th I'd probably be more inclined to say LJ should be going but I don't think our team is as good as people believe. Like LJ said we need to give him more transfer windows. Whether or not he brings the right people in this month remains to be seen and will certainly help me decide how much I rate him. 

More transfer windows?? How many players did he bring in the last one?

We should wait until he has signed 30 players before it's deemed acceptable that it's an LJ team?

[BRISTOL86]

1 hour ago, Bazooka Joe said:

You could be right, we may only be 999,999 miles from getting it right.

I feel reassured.

(I'm not having a dig; just injecting a bit of light-heartedness to something that concerns us all)

 

Ha I get you. I may well be wide of the mark, but having seen every home game this season, to me, we look a million miles better than we did under Cotterill. I can't remember a game in which we were truly battered from start to finish. It felt like that almost every game under Cotts. We have been very competitive in most games, which is a reflection of the quality of the league now. I can't remember a more fiercely competitive Championship when you look at the distribution of points.

I just feel like there are a lot of things to find positives in, and that this blip is temporary. I hope I'm right!

We've lost one game all season by more than a single goal. That tells me we are competitive in every single game we play at a very demanding level. That's a huge step forward from Cotterill in my book.

1 hour ago, Cheesleysmate said:

I'm not an LJ hater, but I am becoming increasingly frustrated by the talking of a good game and tactics being followed up with the same mistakes and the same excuses.

January is when the magnifying glasses will definitely be out and the knives sharpened. Reading the Barnsley forum they mention LJ being stubborn and eventually having to concede his ideas to start dragging Barnsley up the table. That sounds like SC all over again. I hope not!!!!!

I know where you're coming from, I really do. It does really seem like he's hamstrung by his options. The Engvall situation is anyone's guess, Wilbs simply can't play Saturday-Tuesday-Saturday at his age, so it seems like he's just having to do the best he can with what he's got until the window re-opens. If we had any attacking players other than Tomlin and Tammy who contributed with goals then I feel like a lot of close games would have tipped in our favour. Our wide men can't finish a sandwich which is costing us hugely IMO, and if he's going to persist with 4231 then the wingers/wide attacking mids need to be replaced with some quality.

1 hour ago, AshtonGreat said:

So staying up this season and consolidating our place is priority number one...again. Are we ever going to make progress as a club or are we forever going to be the bridesmaid?

After a season spent propping up the table, we were all saying we'd be happy with a mid table finish in the summer. We are currently 6 points from 'mid table'. 6 points short of what the 'mid table' team has achieved over 23 games. 

1 hour ago, Bullbag said:

If he stays, we'll be in league one next Season. 

Simple as that.

Sorry but that's a frankly ridiculous statement. If you think it really is that simple then you really should get into being a football chairman as you clearly have something that the others lack! 

1 hour ago, Redandy said:

Who is asking for a Palace. I hoped that with  the signings he made on the back of the form we showed at the end of last season we would have improved. I always thought mid table would be an achievement. I did not expect to be getting considerably worse and sinking like a stone with a manager seemingly incapable of sorting the team out and expecting a load more signings to bail him out.

I agree that I'm disappointed with how the recent spell has gone. But you say you'd consider that mid table would be a good achievement? Well we're currently 6 points from mid table with 69 points still to play for. Is that really worthy of a knee jerk reaction to a bad run?

We've lost one game all season by more than a single goal. The margins are so, so fine. 

29 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Or we could ask the Huddersfield fans what progress means  86 

(Finished below us last season)

Astute signings, well drilled and an established way of playing

Absolutely, Wagner has done a fantastic job there and deserves the plaudits coming his way. But we ourselves had a bit of a freak season once. It does happen.

Funnily enough Johnson's win rate at Championship level is actually marginally better than that of Wagner! (I was surprised too).

To summarise, I'm not an 'LJ lover'. But I am a loather of modern football and the knee-jerk reactions/short terms and fickle/entitled fans that it breeds, who think real life is like a game of football manager.

This club has been absolutely crying out for a long term period of stability, and better decision making off the pitch. That's finally happened - or rather started to happen - and now people are wanting managers sacked after their first bad spell and wanting that good work undone. It's frustrating that people aren't prepared to buy into the idea that some stability could be good for the club and that sometimes there's a bit of short term pain to endure.

[maxjak]

Too many glib knee jerkers. But lots of constructive analysis.  We have to give LJ the opportunity to put things right in the January window…..it would be too disruptive & counter productive to sack our manager at this point of the season. I am certain he knows who he wants and who needs drafting in, and what positions are in need of severe maintenance (The Big If, is will they come to a side lying 18th?) Apart from Brighton, every defeat has been by one goal, so we need experienced heads to see out games, as we concede too often late on, and from winning positions. I believe if we stick with LJ, and he is able to recruit who he wants, then we will be ok, but i'm not exactly brimming with optimism. January will be crucial.

[lenred]

11 hours ago, Redstoke said:

Curious to know what makes you think Lee can 'take us places' please explain.

 

He's evidently respected as a young coach that's up and coming, as proven by Chelsea's willingness to deal with us and as other more 'connected' posters on this forum have said on many an occasion. He saved us from certain relegation last year when we were a complete and absolute shambles going nowhere very fast and we started off this season fantastically well. He's made some really astute signings, again as evidenced by the amount of praise that he was getting on this very forum over the summer (the fact that some are taking longer to fire doesn't mean they are necessarily all bad signings) and has attracted players here that we wouldn't have dreamt would come here only a year ago.  And whatever Barnsley fans may say, you wouldn't get the amount of vitriol that he has from them if they weren't peeved that he came to us instead of stating with them. 

He's a modern manager who fits the way that this clubs hierarchy  want it to be run. He has flaws, picking a settled team would help greatly at the moment for instance IMHO, but I think he'll be given time to sort it and agree that he should be. 

[redsfan]

53 minutes ago, lenred said:

And whatever Barnsley fans may say, you wouldn't get the amount of vitriol that he has from them if they weren't peeved that he came to us instead of stating with them. 

You believe that if you want to.  I doubt I can change your mind.

But for the record, you're wrong!.  I was overjoyed when he left.  He was taking us nowhere fast with his constant tinkering. 

If only the players were as good at understanding his systems as he is at devising them eh?  Then they might have a chance at knowing what the hell is going on from one week to the next.

[lenred]

20 minutes ago, redsfan said:

You believe that if you want to.  I doubt I can change your mind.

But for the record, you're wrong!.  I was overjoyed when he left.  He was taking us nowhere fast with his constant tinkering. 

If only the players were as good at understanding his systems as he is at devising them eh?  Then they might have a chance at knowing what the hell is going on from one week to the next.

Why the vitriol toward him then from your lot? If you were so happy to lose him then you'd have  been overjoyed surely? And you wouldn't be on here gloating about it that's for sure. 

[REDOXO]

LJ seems not to be the most popular in Barnsley. Still to do anything in life you will make enemies, many of LJs seem to have Yorky accents. Ahhh Well. The gloating of one or two from Barnsley is a bit distasteful as we have always had a pretty good relationship with them on here. But there we are!

LJ is now in trouble of that there is no doubt. He needs a win soon (we all do) 

 

[redsfan]

43 minutes ago, lenred said:

Why the vitriol toward him then from your lot? If you were so happy to lose him then you'd have  been overjoyed surely? And you wouldn't be on here gloating about it that's for sure. 

I am not sure who else from a Barnsley persuasion has been posting vitriol on here, but I don't think I have overdone it.  Yes, we were overjoyed, or a large and vocal number of us were.  Of course, I was one of the ones who wanted him out and have said so, but that doesn't mean I harbour any ill feeling towards either him or BCFC.  I don't think I have gloated, a least I hope I haven't.  I have just added to the conversation about him a couple of times over the  last week or so with a historical BFC fan perspective.

It's not looking good for him at the moment but a couple of astute signings and a bit of a change of fortunes in Jan and it could all look different for you.  It is hard to judge whether he is on borrowed time - clearly he is losing the confidence of a number of you guys, but you don't make the decisions.  If SL backs him, then you've got him, for better or worse, so in the background, there may be no pressure at all on him - who knows.  It just baffles me where he gets this tag of one of the most highly rated young managers in the league.  In my eyes, he has done nothing to justify it.

I wish you good luck for the rest of the season mate - at least there is no danger of relegation - there are FAR worse teams at the bottom.

[Major Isewater]

15 hours ago, JamesBCFC said:

Can't agree with that.

Are you really suggesting LJ was only hired because his family are mates with SL?

Nothing to do with the fact he was (at the time of appointment) one of the highest rated young English managers?

 

May I also remind you just what the form under SO'D was like before he was sacked. Over 44 games we won a total of 11. Johnson has won us 7 more games in less time, his record being better than the one SO'D had in the months before his sacking (with a run of 1 win in 14 games). So SO'D was afforded as much (actually more) grace than LJ has, and that was after overseeing the relegation of the team, unlike the current boss who averted relegation.

Despite the fact that ultimately SOD was n't a great fit at BCFC ,perhaps he would have done better if he had the same advantages that LJ enjoys ,namely massive investment in players , staff and infrastructure.

We can't compare the incomparable .

[Major Isewater]

4 hours ago, Corsham Ed said:

No we won't. There are worse teams than us in the league.

Come on folks, we're going through a bad patch, but I have no doubt it will turn around. All we need is a small bit of Lady Luck to get us going again.

COYR.

Lady Luck should be our priority signing in January !

[steviestevieneville]

15 hours ago, Andy082005 said:

Has the clown gone yet? 

No you're still here . 

[redsfan]

6 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

Lady Luck should be our priority signing in January !

Too late - she's signed for Sheffield Wednesday on a long term deal.