I would sack Johnson now

[BobBobSuperBob]

With some of the reposts aimed at @redsfan and some other Barnsley posters , both when he was appointed and now, have people looked past any gloating or other perceptions , and actually read why they didn't rate Lee.

Personally one of my reoccurring concerns is that what I have witnessed is exactly they've consistently said about Lee

Tinkering with players & formations  / short passing going nowhere / over complicating  / Confusing players / No plan B. etc etc

Am I the only one that has real concerns that what they predicted , is exactly what many posters on here have been suggesting is happening at AG , on here for a while now ??

 

[redsfan]

3 hours ago, lenred said:

The question posed to you was whether all northerners are as bitter as you towards their ex managers and you answered yes, then went on to say you weren't. That was the bit that didn't make sense. 

And no, I'm not touchy at all -  I just don't get why you're spending time on a team's forum that has no relevance to you or your team currently or your interest in a managers fate that you claim to have no interest in. 

It depends on whether you read the question "are all northerners as bitter as you" as being a given that I am bitter.  I answered yes because, given that I am not bitter at all, the answer is yes, because no one else from Barnsley is either.

Think of an equivalent question asked of Posh Spice - "are all talentless girl band members as fat as you", and you might get what I mean.

Perhaps I was just being a bit too subtle.  Never mind.  My bad.

As to why I am on here - like I said, good forum.  Ours is a bit quiet at the moment - it gets much livelier when we have something to whinge about - much more fun.  So, you know, dead week between Christmas and New Year, bored, have a scan around another other clubs forum.  Bit sad maybe, but it passes the time.  Don't fret - I am off on holiday on Thursday, and then will be back at work, so won't have the time come January to give it much thought.

I am not here to cause grief - I am quite friendly - honest :).

Changing subject, glad I won't be around for the trip to Forest this week - too close to miss normally, but not a trip I enjoy - can't do with our kids, none of whom were around in the 80s, shouting "Scab" at the Forest fans, most of whom had nothing to do with the Miners strike either.  It overshadows the game every year and proper pisses me off. 

Good luck for Ipswich - A case of losing manager hits the high road? - Big Mac looking shaky over at Portman Road as well.

 

 

[shelts]

2 hours ago, bristolcitysweden said:

We are in the same club as Putin, Brexit and Trump

Nothing wrong with Brexit my cold cousin , the people spoke as they did with Mr Trump it's called democracy. Not sure who Putin is?!!

[Vincent Vega]

10 minutes ago, shelts said:

Nothing wrong with Brexit my cold cousin , the people spoke as they did with Mr Trump it's called democracy. Not sure who Putin is?!!

He's the Ian Holloway of Russia. 

[redsfan]

9 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

With some of the reposts aimed at @redsfan and some other Barnsley posters , both when he was appointed and now, have people looked past any gloating or other perceptions , and actually read why they didn't rate Lee.

Personally one of my reoccurring concerns is that what I have witnessed is exactly they've consistently said about Lee

Tinkering with players & formations  / short passing going nowhere / over complicating  / Confusing players / No plan B. etc etc

Am I the only one that has real concerns that what they predicted , is exactly what many posters on here have been suggesting is happening at AG , on here for a while now ??

 

This is the point @BobBobSuperBob - I found it interesting to contribute because what BCFC fans are now saying is exactly the same as what we witnessed and why I was glad he went.  It is clear that he has the qualifications and wants to do things the right way, but is it the right way when it isn't working, and when everyone has sussed you out.  To me, football is a simple game, and LJ tries to over complicate it - if it doesn't work then it can't be the tactics that are at fault, it must be the players, so lets try it next week with yet another bunch of changes, no matter who is out of position to make it fit, because the formation is what counts.

We were bottom of League 1, trying to play like Barcelona, changing personnel EVERY week.  We were playing our top scorer Winnall on the wing for Christ's sake.  He was having to drift back into our half to get a sniff of the ball because we refused to carry it forward with any sense of urgency at all.  It was a struggle to motivate myself to even go down to Oakwell at times - I was bored stiff.  All it needed was a settled team, playing 4-4-2 with a decent spine and a decent striker up front playing to his strengths.   LJ refused to consider the change in formation because, in his words in an interview, Hourihane couldn't play in a midfield 2.  Hmm, since he left, Hourihane has developed into one of the best players outside the Premier League.

 

[ChippenhamRed]

5 hours ago, Brizzy said:

 Really ? Under SC we won league 1 at a canter, under LJ we are going back down there with barely a whimper.

What absolute nonsense. "Barely a whimper" is a phrase for teams in 24th place getting hammered every week, no wins to their name, hardly scoring a goal.

Not one in 17th place, 7 points clear of the relegation places, with 8 wins on the board, on a poor run but competing in every game and losing by the odd goal.

[Davefevs]

Tried to read this whole thread but admit I skimmed a few.

I'm not sure where I stand on LJ.  I said a couple of weeks ago that I could sit and listen to him all day, but ultimately he'll be judged on what happens on the grass (or 50% Desso).

I'm really disappointed about the run we're on, and in this brutal division lack of confidence or momentum can have a massive effect.

Back at the start of the season, EFL conducted a fans survey of where they thought their team would finish....no surprises about all fans having a sense of rose tinted specs.  Here it is:

Average Predicted Finish Position
Sky Bet Championship (Average predicted position)
Newcastle United: 1 (2)
Norwich City: 3 (12)
Derby County: 3 (7)
Sheffield Wednesday: 3 (6)
Brighton & Hove Albion: 3 (1)
Aston Villa: 4 (10)
Wolverhampton Wanderers: 5 (15)
Cardiff City: 6 (19)
Fulham: 7 (8)
Leeds United: 7 (5)
Queens Park Rangers: 7 (20)
Nottingham Forest: 7 (18)
Ipswich Town: 8 (16)
Preston North End: 8 (13)
Huddersfield Town: 8 (4)
Birmingham City: 8 (11)
Brentford: 9 (14)
Reading: 9 (3)
Bristol City: 9 (17)
Wigan Athletic: 9 (23)
Blackburn Rovers: 12 (22)
Barnsley: 13 (9)
Burton Albion: 16 (21)
Rotherham United: 19 (24)
Read more at http://www.efl.com/news/article/2016/fans-predict-newcastle-sheffield-united-portsmouth-to-win-divisions-3225302.aspx#AAdtxlzE7qhdohEp.99

Even Rotherham fans predicting 5 places higher.

The most optimistic:

Wigan fans - 14 places lower, and sacked their manager, Cardiff City - 13 places lower, and sacked their manager, QPR fans - 13 places lower, and sacked their manager.

The pessimists:

Huddersfield - 4 places better, Barnsley - ditto (maybe @redsfan should take a bit of credit)

What does this tell us....not a lot really, but that our expectations are generally higher than reality.

After a really tough season in 15/16, a good transfer window (on paper / in future) over the summer we were right to expect a better finish than 18th...but how much better.  Think I was in the 8-12th brigade.

LJ has made a rod for his own back with an excellent start.  Personally I don't think we played great, but I saw a fitness and strength in the final 30 minutes of each match that made me think the opposition were busting a gut to contain us in the first 45-60 and then we came to the fore later in the game.  May have been a bit delusional, as from the Wednesday game we seem to be the team that concedes later in the game.

I'm not going to profess to have the magic answer like some, e.g. we must go 442, we must play him, we must do this....but we do need to somehow find a way to turn it around.

I'm not suggesting sacking LJ is the right or wrong thing, but he is the one paid to turn this around.  He must earn his corn.

As for talk of merry-go-rounds, cycles, yes, chopping LJ now would have signs of previous cycles, but much as I thought Cotts would keep us up (you may well laugh, but I thought he would), I think LJ will too.  Apologies, but I can't agree with those that come on here and say "the only way we are going is to league one", just like I can't slag off our players.  I can be critical, yes, but not be offensive.

I would just like LJ to come out and say, "this is what I think the best team for each game and I'm going to give them the chance to prove it, they will keep their place if they do"...that does allow for an odd tweak, just not wholesale changes.  That might give players a boost and show the character of those not, i.e. they'll want to prove manager wrong, or they'll not bother, and that will help make minds up.

Sorry, bit of a long post.

[BobBobSuperBob]

24 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Tried to read this whole thread but admit I skimmed a few.

I'm not sure where I stand on LJ.  I said a couple of weeks ago that I could sit and listen to him all day, but ultimately he'll be judged on what happens on the grass (or 50% Desso).

I'm really disappointed about the run we're on, and in this brutal division lack of confidence or momentum can have a massive effect.

Back at the start of the season, EFL conducted a fans survey of where they thought their team would finish....no surprises about all fans having a sense of rose tinted specs.  Here it is:

Average Predicted Finish Position
Sky Bet Championship (Average predicted position)
Newcastle United: 1 (2)
Norwich City: 3 (12)
Derby County: 3 (7)
Sheffield Wednesday: 3 (6)
Brighton & Hove Albion: 3 (1)
Aston Villa: 4 (10)
Wolverhampton Wanderers: 5 (15)
Cardiff City: 6 (19)
Fulham: 7 (8)
Leeds United: 7 (5)
Queens Park Rangers: 7 (20)
Nottingham Forest: 7 (18)
Ipswich Town: 8 (16)
Preston North End: 8 (13)
Huddersfield Town: 8 (4)
Birmingham City: 8 (11)
Brentford: 9 (14)
Reading: 9 (3)
Bristol City: 9 (17)
Wigan Athletic: 9 (23)
Blackburn Rovers: 12 (22)
Barnsley: 13 (9)
Burton Albion: 16 (21)
Rotherham United: 19 (24)
Read more at http://www.efl.com/news/article/2016/fans-predict-newcastle-sheffield-united-portsmouth-to-win-divisions-3225302.aspx#AAdtxlzE7qhdohEp.99

Even Rotherham fans predicting 5 places higher.

The most optimistic:

Wigan fans - 14 places lower, and sacked their manager, Cardiff City - 13 places lower, and sacked their manager, QPR fans - 13 places lower, and sacked their manager.

The pessimists:

Huddersfield - 4 places better, Barnsley - ditto (maybe @redsfan should take a bit of credit)

What does this tell us....not a lot really, but that our expectations are generally higher than reality.

After a really tough season in 15/16, a good transfer window (on paper / in future) over the summer we were right to expect a better finish than 18th...but how much better.  Think I was in the 8-12th brigade.

LJ has made a rod for his own back with an excellent start.  Personally I don't think we played great, but I saw a fitness and strength in the final 30 minutes of each match that made me think the opposition were busting a gut to contain us in the first 45-60 and then we came to the fore later in the game.  May have been a bit delusional, as from the Wednesday game we seem to be the team that concedes later in the game.

I'm not going to profess to have the magic answer like some, e.g. we must go 442, we must play him, we must do this....but we do need to somehow find a way to turn it around.

I'm not suggesting sacking LJ is the right or wrong thing, but he is the one paid to turn this around.  He must earn his corn.

As for talk of merry-go-rounds, cycles, yes, chopping LJ now would have signs of previous cycles, but much as I thought Cotts would keep us up (you may well laugh, but I thought he would), I think LJ will too.  Apologies, but I can't agree with those that come on here and say "the only way we are going is to league one", just like I can't slag off our players.  I can be critical, yes, but not be offensive.

I would just like LJ to come out and say, "this is what I think the best team for each game and I'm going to give them the chance to prove it, they will keep their place if they do"...that does allow for an odd tweak, just not wholesale changes.  That might give players a boost and show the character of those not, i.e. they'll want to prove manager wrong, or they'll not bother, and that will help make minds up.

Sorry, bit of a long post.

Great views to read as normal Dave

 

However I do take issue with the claims in respect of the pitch - i think you are way off the mark with your %50 stated , as fact - please ensure all stats used in a point are scientifically accurate 

Thankyou

[Mendip City]

25 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Tried to read this whole thread but admit I skimmed a few.

I'm not sure where I stand on LJ.  I said a couple of weeks ago that I could sit and listen to him all day, but ultimately he'll be judged on what happens on the grass (or 50% Desso).

I'm really disappointed about the run we're on, and in this brutal division lack of confidence or momentum can have a massive effect.

Back at the start of the season, EFL conducted a fans survey of where they thought their team would finish....no surprises about all fans having a sense of rose tinted specs.  Here it is:

Average Predicted Finish Position
Sky Bet Championship (Average predicted position)
Newcastle United: 1 (2)
Norwich City: 3 (12)
Derby County: 3 (7)
Sheffield Wednesday: 3 (6)
Brighton & Hove Albion: 3 (1)
Aston Villa: 4 (10)
Wolverhampton Wanderers: 5 (15)
Cardiff City: 6 (19)
Fulham: 7 (8)
Leeds United: 7 (5)
Queens Park Rangers: 7 (20)
Nottingham Forest: 7 (18)
Ipswich Town: 8 (16)
Preston North End: 8 (13)
Huddersfield Town: 8 (4)
Birmingham City: 8 (11)
Brentford: 9 (14)
Reading: 9 (3)
Bristol City: 9 (17)
Wigan Athletic: 9 (23)
Blackburn Rovers: 12 (22)
Barnsley: 13 (9)
Burton Albion: 16 (21)
Rotherham United: 19 (24)
Read more at http://www.efl.com/news/article/2016/fans-predict-newcastle-sheffield-united-portsmouth-to-win-divisions-3225302.aspx#AAdtxlzE7qhdohEp.99

Even Rotherham fans predicting 5 places higher.

The most optimistic:

Wigan fans - 14 places lower, and sacked their manager, Cardiff City - 13 places lower, and sacked their manager, QPR fans - 13 places lower, and sacked their manager.

The pessimists:

Huddersfield - 4 places better, Barnsley - ditto (maybe @redsfan should take a bit of credit)

What does this tell us....not a lot really, but that our expectations are generally higher than reality.

After a really tough season in 15/16, a good transfer window (on paper / in future) over the summer we were right to expect a better finish than 18th...but how much better.  Think I was in the 8-12th brigade.

LJ has made a rod for his own back with an excellent start.  Personally I don't think we played great, but I saw a fitness and strength in the final 30 minutes of each match that made me think the opposition were busting a gut to contain us in the first 45-60 and then we came to the fore later in the game.  May have been a bit delusional, as from the Wednesday game we seem to be the team that concedes later in the game.

I'm not going to profess to have the magic answer like some, e.g. we must go 442, we must play him, we must do this....but we do need to somehow find a way to turn it around.

I'm not suggesting sacking LJ is the right or wrong thing, but he is the one paid to turn this around.  He must earn his corn.

As for talk of merry-go-rounds, cycles, yes, chopping LJ now would have signs of previous cycles, but much as I thought Cotts would keep us up (you may well laugh, but I thought he would), I think LJ will too.  Apologies, but I can't agree with those that come on here and say "the only way we are going is to league one", just like I can't slag off our players.  I can be critical, yes, but not be offensive.

I would just like LJ to come out and say, "this is what I think the best team for each game and I'm going to give them the chance to prove it, they will keep their place if they do"...that does allow for an odd tweak, just not wholesale changes.  That might give players a boost and show the character of those not, i.e. they'll want to prove manager wrong, or they'll not bother, and that will help make minds up.

Sorry, bit of a long post.

Good post. The final paragraph is it. Constant chopping and changing of team and formations is experimentation and that can't inspire confidence in us, players or the board. Time for that to end. Pick a formation, pick a side, get on the front foot and win football matches.  

My fear is with January approaching the squad will get bigger and the chopping get more exaggerated. 

[Davefevs]

7 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Great views to read as normal Dave

 

However I do take issue with the claims in respect of the pitch - i think you are way off the mark with your %50 stated , as fact - please ensure all stats used in a point are scientifically accurate 

Thankyou

The bit I dug up and nicked, looks about 100% to me!!!!!

 

[Maesknoll Red]

11 hours ago, lenred said:

He's evidently respected as a young coach that's up and coming, as proven by Chelsea's willingness to deal with us 

I'm not convinced having a Chelsea player on loan proves he is a respected up and coming coach, it's hardly an exclusive position to be in......

http://www.chelseafc.com/teams/on-loan-players.html

I'm not convinced we should sack him now, I'm also minded that very few managers get the chance to nowdays to put right their mistakes and maybe we could try bucking the trend, but if I had the drawer with the P45's in, I'd feel the need to be convinced we'd stay up, before I put them back for another year.

[BobBobSuperBob]

14 minutes ago, Maesknoll Red said:

I'm not convinced having a Chelsea player on loan proves he is a respected up and coming coach, it's hardly an exclusive position to be in......

http://www.chelseafc.com/teams/on-loan-players.html

I'm not convinced we should sack him now, I'm also minded that very few managers get the chance to nowdays to put right their mistakes and maybe we could try bucking the trend, but if I had the drawer with the P45's in, I'd feel the need to be convinced we'd stay up, before I put them back for another year.

Not sold on Lee at present time but got to stick up for him in this one

He & MA did a very good job getting Tammy IMHO

They clearly put some real effort into it and impressed both Chelsea & importantly the player to get him to AG

I totally agree that doesn't make him a 'good coach ' necessarily at all , but I think their professional & personal dealings were clearly very good in this matter and suggests Lee does appear to have one of the dozens of skills needed to successfully manage at this level

[lenred]

9 hours ago, Maesknoll Red said:

I'm not convinced having a Chelsea player on loan proves he is a respected up and coming coach, it's hardly an exclusive position to be in......

http://www.chelseafc.com/teams/on-loan-players.html

I'm not convinced we should sack him now, I'm also minded that very few managers get the chance to nowdays to put right their mistakes and maybe we could try bucking the trend, but if I had the drawer with the P45's in, I'd feel the need to be convinced we'd stay up, before I put them back for another year.

Very fair point MR, but I guess my point there would be that we haven't been trusted with such an asset as Tammy before so he must (or we must if you see it as the whole BCFC package) be doing something right in comparison to recent times.  Yes there are tonnes of Chelsea players on loan, including down the road of course, but they aren't in the same league as TA as it stands and if reports are to be believed Chelsea were near to keeping him as they rate him that much, so for them to trust us with him is progress IMHO. 

[Genghis Khan's pants]

10 hours ago, Davefevs said:

The bit I dug up and nicked, looks about 100% to me!!!!!

 

Excellent positioning by the washing line there and a cracking finish by the looks of it - obviously a mix up between the chair and slide on who was supposed to pick the line up! Could the line work alongside Tammy in a top two?? Might be a bit static I guess!

[adamski]

On 26/12/2016 at 23:40, ChippenhamRed said:

Ah, it's all media coaching. My mistake.

Evidently we've already reached the stage on OTIB where any positives about the manager are now explained away as not actually being positives at all. Because it is not permissible to say anything in favour of a struggling manager.

Ffs, Go and have a conversation with the man and report back! He's not management savvy at all!

[Gert Mare]

1 win in 14 games.

[shelts]

Ok pal