The Dolman Pragmatist Posted January 23, 2017 Report Share Posted January 23, 2017 8 minutes ago, Olé said: Yep. I'm sure we'll see them all at Burnley... I wouldn't even begin to suggest supporting the club is the monopoly of one view on LJ or another, so I really don't know where some get off bringing support into this. The support has been consistently positive at away games (@allyolly rigtly highlighted it after the Forest game) and I'm sure away support represents both views, but I am equally sure some on here who are so outraged at the idea of criticising LJ, have probably only sat through only a handful of matches at limited expense. Starting to lecture others on whether they support the club, or how to support the club, is just crass and embarrassing. Impassioned views on LJ are not the product of people who couldn't care less - they are the product of people who care too much and spend a ***ing fortune in time and money. There's plenty of good debate on OTIB from both points of view about LJ but the minute some resort to suggesting you don't support the club, or have given up, or don't care - or worst of all, instructing us to "get behind the team" - it's not only an incredible reach, it's a downright liberty. I'm all for rallying cries, but instructions on how to react to current form, and how to support the club - seriously? Oh come on, you don't really believe that do you? I've interacted with you online about City for almost twenty years now, on this and another forum, but this is not like you. Calling for people to get behind the club is far from an instruction on how to react to current form. It is about the future and the best thing that anyone can do for the club at the moment. I don't know who said it (it wasn't me) but I'm sure it was well meant and it doesn't deserve this reaction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAmNick Posted January 23, 2017 Report Share Posted January 23, 2017 5 minutes ago, Chivs said: I went into the local Tory club* recently and polled them on who should be the next Prime Minister: Theresa May or Jeremy Corbyn. There was an overwhelming majority (over 90%) for May! That's a fact then. When the poll is so overwhelming it doesn't really matter what the process is in taking it..... *obviously, I was the one voting Corbyn... This is a public forum though, so why are you comparing it to that - it makes no sense. Why do you think this forum would be inherently so incredibly anti - johnson? What you are saying it's the equivalent of is doing a "Which is the better team, City or Rovers?" poll on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChippenhamRed Posted January 23, 2017 Report Share Posted January 23, 2017 4 minutes ago, Chivs said: I went into the local Tory club* recently and polled them on who should be the next Prime Minister: Theresa May or Jeremy Corbyn. There was an overwhelming majority (over 90%) for May! That's a fact then. When the poll is so overwhelming it doesn't really matter what the process is in taking it..... *obviously, I was the one voting Corbyn... Such a crap analogy. Clearly a Tory club is biased towards a Tory candidate. There is no such pre-existing bias on the forum. Certainly not one that explains an overwhelming 90% majority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Hunt-Hertz Posted January 23, 2017 Report Share Posted January 23, 2017 We're owned and run by utter fookwits. I despair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redordead1 Posted January 23, 2017 Report Share Posted January 23, 2017 5 minutes ago, cynic said: Yep. Last season was good - but that was last season and is totally irrelevant to this season. Or do we judge LJ on last season as well ? Game changing contributions ? Do me a favour - when was that then ? If he can knuckle down and show his undoubted quality then fine, if not, he can **** off. Thanks for answering my first question, from your response it's clear you don't. I'm sure someone else can provide more accurate stats on this season, but off the top of my head I can remember great performances against Villa and Fulham with a goal and assist. "Game changing" assist to win us all 3 points against Leeds. Goal and assist against Barnsley to win us as point, scoring the second to wrap up 3 points against Ipswich and sure there are others. Again... moronic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickJ Posted January 23, 2017 Report Share Posted January 23, 2017 1 hour ago, iamsober said: define significant? Have you spoke to all 18000 fans? A simple fact, based on normal statistical sampling methods: 519 out of 592 have voted "Sack" at this moment. That is 87.5% to the nearest 0.5%. Let's say the City support base is 20,000, although it would not make a lot of difference to the following analysis if it was 30,000 or 40,000. With a sample size of 592 from a population of 20,000, there is a 99% certainty that the poll is within 5 percentage points of being accurate. In other words, there is a 99% chance that based on the poll, if every single supporter were to be asked, it would come out at between 82.5-92.5% in favour of sacking Johnson. Now, I am sure at this point those who are blind in their faith for Johnson, or have maybe other reasons, will claim that the poll on here is not representative, that somehow members of this forum are not representative of the fan base. Sorry, but with numbers of City fans on this forum running into thousands, a similar analysis would demonstrate that there is a very near certainty that this forum is representative. Now SL will have seen this poll, and while I do not expect him to have done the maths, or even to be fully au fait with sampling techniques, Steve is an accountant who I believe may have worked in the financial services industry, and he will know that statements such as the one he made are simply untrue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamski Posted January 23, 2017 Report Share Posted January 23, 2017 1. Would SL go onto a local phone in and announce the club had dispensed with LJ's services----seriously! 2. If he is thinking of recruiting a replacement what sort of message would it send out if he used a phone-in to publicly slag off the current job holder? 3. He's got lots to lose, ££££'s and credibility. Let him work through it 4. He's done great things for this club, heavens knows where we'd be without him 5. Perhaps is is a loyal employer..... 6. I respect his opinion, I might not share it, but it's his right to back it. 7. I'm sure there's a plan b, which given our current position is undoubtedly stay up and build on two "interesting"seasons. disapointing, but most of the 50 season's I've followed the City have been just that- grey with the occasional ray of sunshine. don't look a gifthourse in the mouth folks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric04 Posted January 23, 2017 Report Share Posted January 23, 2017 50 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said: In retrospect I could've worded it better. It is Ali reporting that LJ has SL's full support and SL considers that LJ has the support of the majority of fans. Apologies! It's true - SL did say it. And here it is!!! http://bbc.in/2k9r1R2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chivs Posted January 23, 2017 Report Share Posted January 23, 2017 11 minutes ago, IAmNick said: This is a public forum though, so why are you comparing it to that - it makes no sense. Why do you think this forum would be inherently so incredibly anti - johnson? What you are saying it's the equivalent of is doing a "Which is the better team, City or Rovers?" poll on here. 11 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said: Such a crap analogy. Clearly a Tory club is biased towards a Tory candidate. There is no such pre-existing bias on the forum. Certainly not one that explains an overwhelming 90% majority. Where was this poll? On this forum? I'm on here every day and didn't see it. I saw mention of it but didn't seek it out to give my vote. Shouting loudly doesn't make you the majority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashtonwurzel Posted January 23, 2017 Report Share Posted January 23, 2017 57 minutes ago, Emperor Palpatine said: No he hasn't Have to agree, may have lost 1 or 2 but that is normal in any squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curr Avon Posted January 23, 2017 Report Share Posted January 23, 2017 Just now, NickJ said: A simple fact, based on normal statistical sampling methods: 519 out of 592 have voted "Sack" at this moment. That is 87.5% to the nearest 0.5%. Let's say the City support base is 20,000, although it would not make a lot of difference to the following analysis if it was 30,000 or 40,000. With a sample size of 592 from a population of 20,000, there is a 99% certainty that the poll is within 5 percentage points of being accurate. In other words, there is a 99% chance that based on the poll, if every single supporter were to be asked, it would come out at between 82.5-92.5% in favour of sacking Johnson. Now, I am sure at this point those who are blind in their faith for Johnson, or have maybe other reasons, will claim that the poll on here is not representative, that somehow members of this forum are not representative of the fan base. Sorry, but with numbers of City fans on this forum running into thousands, a similar analysis would demonstrate that there is a very near certainty that this forum is representative. Now SL will have seen this poll, and while I do not expect him to have done the maths, or even to be fully au fait with sampling techniques, Steve is an accountant who I believe may have worked in the financial services industry, and he will know that statements such as the one he made are simply untrue. Nick, based on your final paragraph I think that Steve Lansdown, like Donald Trump, has access to 'alternative facts' about the level of support for Lee Johnson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olé Posted January 23, 2017 Report Share Posted January 23, 2017 1 minute ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said: Oh come on, you don't really believe that do you? I've interacted with you online about City for almost twenty years now, on this and another forum, but this is not like you. Calling for people to get behind the club is far from an instruction on how to react to current form. It is about the future and the best thing that anyone can do for the club at the moment. I don't know who said it (it wasn't me) but I'm sure it was well meant and it doesn't deserve this reaction. Perhaps (Chris E?), but I must have picked up the same subtle digs from a few remarks in this thread and elsewhere that @lenred did, it grates a little to hear people assume because you don't believe LJ is the right manager, you would do anything other than support the team and the manager (otherwise, why else the pointed remarks along the lines it's time for you to get behind them - my reaction to which: since when, isn't that what we're always supposed to do?) Steve L has said his piece, and what he believes to be true, this is a forum and to me it is still entirely up for debate if LJ is fit to manage. That doesn't change the manner of my support or the need to be told how to support in the upcoming games. I know there are a few childish reactions to the situation but I would hope the majority of people who have given up on LJ, could be given the credit for not needing even instructions (even from SL) on how to support the team. By the way, this is only going to get worse, both points of view will feel more and more patronised by one another the more this goes on, because people are so aghast that others could have a different view. While a little surprised, I respect other points of view, however I don't believe that what SL has said should allow some to suggest the debate should stop. The forum is here for good reason (and I'm still waiting for a credible argument about what LJ is doing well ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeAman08 Posted January 23, 2017 Report Share Posted January 23, 2017 2 minutes ago, redordead1 said: Thanks for answering my first question, from your response it's clear you don't. I'm sure someone else can provide more accurate stats on this season, but off the top of my head I can remember great performances against Villa and Fulham with a goal and assist. "Game changing" assist to win us all 3 points against Leeds. Goal and assist against Barnsley to win us as point, scoring the second to wrap up 3 points against Ipswich and sure there are others. Again... moronic LT hasn't been good enough as much as LJ hasn't been good enough. Difference is LT has been there and done it and still seems to be unprofessional about it. As good as LT is, he hasn't been the player we needed him to be. The player he is clearly capable of. He's got a history of insubordination. He's had a few good moments this season but it isn't enough. Last season, LT did knuckle down and drag the team away from the drop. Which is why I expected more from him this season and to drag us to the top half. As soon as we started losing a few he started fading. I think that suggests he's not up for it this time. Who knows though? If he isn't though, I think saying he can F off is appropriate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChippenhamRed Posted January 23, 2017 Report Share Posted January 23, 2017 1 minute ago, Chivs said: Where was this poll? On this forum? I'm on here every day and didn't see it. I saw mention of it but didn't seek it out to give my vote. Shouting loudly doesn't make you the majority. Nothing to do with how loud you shout. Of the 600 people who voted, 90% chose to sack. That statistic is what defines the majority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChippenhamRed Posted January 23, 2017 Report Share Posted January 23, 2017 3 minutes ago, Curr Avon said: Nick, based on your final paragraph I think that Steve Lansdown, like Donald Trump, has access to 'alternative facts' about the level of support for Lee Johnson. Lansdown also said that Trump's inauguration was definitely better attended than Obama's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Up The City! Posted January 23, 2017 Report Share Posted January 23, 2017 46 minutes ago, The BristolCity Blog said: ...Well it's certainly nice to be called an 'Absolute disgrace', 'A Dissapointment' and a 'Happy Clapper' from my fellow fans, all for having the confidence and willingness to appear on a radio show and discuss the club we all love. I don't hide behind tweets and this forum, I actively join in with debates in person and would love to meet any of you for a pint and a chat about the Reds. No, from a personal point of view it was not as balanced as I would've liked - when I criticised moaners I merely meant it does nothing to help move the club forward - but it was definitely one of the more challenging chats after the SL statement, interview and everyone firing in their opinions on social media. I am not a progressional jornalist or a pundit, it takes a bit to talk live on air but I'm a fan and I like having my say. Everyone is entitled to their opinion (and i respect them all, personal insults and negative banners aside) but since, for now, LJ is clearly staying - we really have little choice but to get behind the team now more than ever. I am not a staunch LJ fan 'cherry picked' for the show, I've been on regularly and have received praise for my rational and (usually) balanced view. It's often the same people ringing in and appearing on the panel, I cordially invite any of you to follow suit. Any other manager or any other other professional would be in an untenable position right now for sure. But I am sick of the modern sack culture and if he does go, watch the cycle repeat itself again and again and again. Fingers crossed for the two upcoming home games. I promised myself I wouldn't rant....but with much respect, let's try and stick together folks. I'm going for a lie down! COYR. Sam What was all that crap about captains and Experienced coaches? I appreciate it wasn't you who brought it up but it seemed a huge waste of valuable air time when neither are big issues right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreedyHarry Posted January 23, 2017 Report Share Posted January 23, 2017 1 hour ago, Robin Ashton said: Has SL surveyed the supporters? Well he forgot to ask me. Obviously his survey is not complete either. Same old City, 2 surveys, neither complete. Tssssk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashtonwurzel Posted January 23, 2017 Report Share Posted January 23, 2017 7 minutes ago, Up The City! said: What was all that crap about captains and Experienced coaches? I appreciate it wasn't you who brought it up but it seemed a huge waste of valuable air time when neither are big issues right now. Yep, agreed. Fans always seem to resort back to screaming captains, wingers with chalk on their boots, 4-4-fffing 2 etc when trying to explain their clubs poor form. Obviously far more to it than that and it would nice to get more into the detail and reasons instead of a Roy of the Rovers love in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The BristolCity Blog Posted January 23, 2017 Report Share Posted January 23, 2017 7 minutes ago, Up The City! said: What was all that crap about captains and Experienced coaches? I appreciate it wasn't you who brought it up but it seemed a huge waste of valuable air time when neither are big issues right now. Agreed. Threw me off if anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamsober Posted January 23, 2017 Report Share Posted January 23, 2017 22 minutes ago, NickJ said: thA simple fact, based on normal statistical sampling methods: 519 out of 592 have voted "Sack" at this moment. That is 87.5% to the nearest 0.5%. Let's say the City support base is 20,000, although it would not make a lot of difference to the following analysis if it was 30,000 or 40,000. With a sample size of 592 from a population of 20,000, there is a 99% certainty that the poll is within 5 percentage points of being accurate. In other words, there is a 99% chance that based on the poll, if every single supporter were to be asked, it would come out at between 82.5-92.5% in favour of sacking Johnson. Now, I am sure at this point those who are blind in their faith for Johnson, or have maybe other reasons, will claim that the poll on here is not representative, that somehow members of this forum are not representative of the fan base. Sorry, but with numbers of City fans on this forum running into thousands, a similar analysis would demonstrate that there is a very near certainty that this forum is representative. Now SL will have seen this poll, and while I do not expect him to have done the maths, or even to be fully au fait with sampling techniques, Steve is an accountant who I believe may have worked in the financial services industry, and he will know that statements such as the one he made are simply untrue. thousands!!! tell me the exact number and I would guess its no more than 2000 which is plural so you can be right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingswood red Posted January 23, 2017 Report Share Posted January 23, 2017 13 minutes ago, Chivs said: Where was this poll? On this forum? I'm on here every day and didn't see it. I saw mention of it but didn't seek it out to give my vote. Shouting loudly doesn't make you the majority. Here you are, so you don't feel left out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charliesboots Posted January 23, 2017 Report Share Posted January 23, 2017 I missed the show but there's one burning question I have to ask. Did Ian vote in the poll? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottishRed Posted January 23, 2017 Report Share Posted January 23, 2017 16 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said: LT hasn't been good enough as much as LJ hasn't been good enough. Difference is LT has been there and done it and still seems to be unprofessional about it. As good as LT is, he hasn't been the player we needed him to be. The player he is clearly capable of. He's got a history of insubordination. He's had a few good moments this season but it isn't enough. Last season, LT did knuckle down and drag the team away from the drop. Which is why I expected more from him this season and to drag us to the top half. As soon as we started losing a few he started fading. I think that suggests he's not up for it this time. Who knows though? If he isn't though, I think saying he can F off is appropriate. Might help if he was played in his correct position ! I don't doubt that LT can be a 'challenge' to manage, the secret to that as a manager is to get the 'difficult' but talented ones on your side. I suspect that LT now has completely sussed LJ and the PowerPoint's and the nonsense he spouts in the media and I assume, on the training ground. It's also true that the style of football now completely discounts a player like LT, its about getting the ball up to the front two as soon as possible and hoping for the best. I really enjoyed Tomlin last season, he kept us in this league and I was delighted when he signed in the summer. An utterly wasted season, very little good football to watch and a relegation fight to boot! Still, we only usually lose by 1 goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Dawe Posted January 23, 2017 Report Share Posted January 23, 2017 41 minutes ago, redordead1 said: Thanks for answering my first question, from your response it's clear you don't. I'm sure someone else can provide more accurate stats on this season, but off the top of my head I can remember great performances against Villa and Fulham with a goal and assist. "Game changing" assist to win us all 3 points against Leeds. Goal and assist against Barnsley to win us as point, scoring the second to wrap up 3 points against Ipswich and sure there are others. Again... moronic The ambitious long ball to Wilbs catching the Blackburn defence on the hop and off balance, creating one of very few openings that day, and a rather undeserved win. A fine goal v Hull. A PL team, no less. For someone who has, admittedly, been poor far too much this season, he still creates and scores more than Freeman, Patterson and the rest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolman Block B Posted January 23, 2017 Report Share Posted January 23, 2017 1 hour ago, Loco Rojo said: Sorry, i just watched it back and I disagree, it doesn't come across like he's suggesting '[support from] the majority of the players' at all. "He has my full support. He has the support of the board, I think he has the support of the majority of the supporters still.[pauses/stammers]...and the players." If you re-watch it, the way he structured the sentence and paused between his acknowledgement of the 'majority of the supporters' and reference the the players, he clearly is separating the two. What you have written above to someone who didnt hear or watch the interview would suggest he said the complete opposite. Personally, visually, his interview looked as if he was very unhappy being there, having to do this. He's made it perfectly clear over the past few weeks and months that he's backing Lee or the long haul - and yes things could change very soon, but i'm very surprised that people expected SL to make a decision that he'd be gone today. Think you can take it both ways The stuttering is a give away that all is not happy and SL is trying to make sure he gives little away What will be will be certainly after the next two league games Loco Here is the interview http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/38723207 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chivs Posted January 23, 2017 Report Share Posted January 23, 2017 14 minutes ago, kingswood red said: Here you are, so you don't feel left out. Thanks. I'm treating it as a secret poll so I can't say how I voted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeAman08 Posted January 23, 2017 Report Share Posted January 23, 2017 5 minutes ago, ScottishRed said: Might help if he was played in his correct position ! I don't doubt that LT can be a 'challenge' to manage, the secret to that as a manager is to get the 'difficult' but talented ones on your side. I suspect that LT now has completely sussed LJ and the PowerPoint's and the nonsense he spouts in the media and I assume, on the training ground. It's also true that the style of football now completely discounts a player like LT, its about getting the ball up to the front two as soon as possible and hoping for the best. I really enjoyed Tomlin last season, he kept us in this league and I was delighted when he signed in the summer. An utterly wasted season, very little good football to watch and a relegation fight to boot! Still, we only usually lose by 1 goal. I'd only argue that LT played much of last season on the left. They style at times this year has been dire and one of my biggest problems with LJ. He talked about an attacking style be we got a possession style. I'm sure it doesn't help when you recruit players telling them this is how we will play then go long as soon as you can. Been a massive waste this season, IMO. I like how the club is doing business in regards to transfers, academy, stadium and all other infrastructure. All we had to do was finish 13-14th or higher with a more than capable squad. Still could I guess and get us back on track but we shouldn't be where we are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lew-T Posted January 23, 2017 Report Share Posted January 23, 2017 It's all rather depressing at the minute isn't it. In a way, I respect SL for sticking to his man and his plans for the future but at the same time, 8 defeats in 8 games is abysmal. Unfortunately it's a results business and LJ has had it pretty sweet with the backing from SL in the summer and this window! Something Cotterill didn't have as much. As for SL's call for the fans, to have a average home gate of 20,000 with the way things are is pretty impressive I think! We had 10,000 against Fleetwood in the FA the other week, Cardiff could only muster 5k! I really hope LJ pulls through this, I honestly do but I want to see some pride and bottle throughout the club, nobody wants to own up to this mess! Just stand up and be counted for BCFC. Something that's been missing for a while! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portland Bill Posted January 23, 2017 Report Share Posted January 23, 2017 1 hour ago, Chivs said: I went into the local Tory club* recently and polled them on who should be the next Prime Minister: Theresa May or Jeremy Corbyn. There was an overwhelming majority (over 90%) for May! That's a fact then. When the poll is so overwhelming it doesn't really matter what the process is in taking it..... *obviously, I was the one voting Corbyn... I went on to the Bristol City supporters forum, the people on the forum were polled to see if they wanted the current manager to remain in his job or be sacked, there was an overwhelming majority ( approx 90 %) for the manager to be sacked. That is a fact, the poll was overwhelming, the process wasn't rigged, people had a choice of which way to vote. Obviously you can't accept it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flagon Posted January 23, 2017 Report Share Posted January 23, 2017 The cup game is a reprieve of sorts, we won't be expected to win the game like we would have been against Fleetwood. Sheffield Wednesday will also be tough and on current form perhaps would also suggest we don't get anything, although it's all been by the odd goal so you never know and I think we could get something from this. However, Rotherham at home we simply must win. We look to have made some great investment in January and perhaps there is another couple or one to come which Lansdown doesn't want to disrupt by suddenly announcing LJs departure. However, with the backing, if we do not win against Rotherham and can see him putting his words, "I have no intention of seeing this wasted" when referring to the off field progress, being put into practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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