Lansdown just as culpable for what is to come

[Red-Robbo]

Just now, BS4 on Tour... said:

Genuine question, how do you know the majority of fans are 'completely against LJ' ?

Only a tiny tiny tiny percentage of our fan base post on this forum so you can't be basing your views on the opinions of that minority....so how do you know?

We took over 40k to Wembley, so it could be argued that figure represents our current fan base (roughly) and only about half of them turn up to home games, so how do you know all their views?

Lots of people have answered that question, but if you haven't read their replies I'll give you my take on it.

In simplistic terms we can't, but we have numerous pointers to why we might deduce that. The poll is as one-sided as any I've ever seen on any subject in Otib. 550 people voted. Now they may be unrepresentative of the City support on the whole, but I agree with @Olé on this: they tend to be the more thoughtful, less knee jerk supporters compared to the general populace. I know it doesn't seem so at times, but believe me, we have plenty of supporters whose only use of a laptop would be to skin up on.

Personal experience: where I sit people have been moaning that Johnson should go for weeks. My extended family, uncles, cousins, we are all Red, all want him to go too. In my pub, I know three City ST holders. They all wanted him out after Brentford. I was the guy saying "We're not a million miles away. Come January, he can bring a few people in and everything will be rosy again!" 

Then there's history. Johnson has straightforwardly given us our longest losing streak since the club was formed. Supporters of other clubs I know cannot believe he's still in place, and nor, I would suggest, can most City fans now. We've had unsuccessful and unpopular managers before, but I can't remember a bigger outpouring of rage, with banners and everything, calling for them to go. Well not since the last days of Dicksy.

Under the circumstances, I simply can't believe that a majority of supporters are prepared to pin their hopes that it'll suddenly come good. We've had zero indications that it will.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

1 minute ago, reddoh said:

you may be right but how many forum(active) members are there?

it doesn't matter, it is a very high sample for such a poll for LJ to still enjoy majority support that poll would have to be skewed beyond belief, the thing with forums is will almost always have a true cross section of supporters you can see that in the way that Johnson debate has developed over nearly 4 miserable months many staunch supporters have given up on him in ever growing numbers as the defeats progressed, you can see it with the Tomlin debate almost a 50/50 split there as well. This poll about Johnson has not got to where it is overnight, this has been 4 months of steady but surely people losing confidence.

I never voted either, I never vote in these polls.

if was in a mood to be kind I might say, perhaps his information lacky's have told him what he wants to hear, or he has been economical with the truth or he has misjudged the mood of the fans, but I believe it to be complete BS.

 

[BS4 on Tour...]

2 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

Lots of people have answered that question, but if you haven't read their replies I'll give you my take on it.

In simplistic terms we can't, but we have numerous pointers to why we might deduce that. The poll is as one-sided as any I've ever seen on any subject in Otib. 550 people voted. Now they may be unrepresentative of the City support on the whole, but I agree with @Olé on this: they tend to be the more thoughtful, less knee jerk supporters compared to the general populace. I know it doesn't seem so at times, but believe me, we have plenty of supporters whose only use of a laptop would be to skin up on.

Personal experience: where I sit people have been moaning that Johnson should go for weeks. My extended family, uncles, cousins, we are all Red, all want him to go too. In my pub, I know three City ST holders. They all wanted him out after Brentford. I was the guy saying "We're not a million miles away. Come January, he can bring a few people in and everything will be rosy again!" 

Then there's history. Johnson has straightforwardly given us our longest losing streak since the club was formed. Supporters of other clubs I know cannot believe he's still in place, and nor, I would suggest, can most City fans now. We've had unsuccessful and unpopular managers before, but I can't remember a bigger outpouring of rage, with banners and everything, calling for them to go. Well not since the last days of Dicksy.

Under the circumstances, I simply can't believe that a majority of supporters are prepared to pin their hopes that it'll suddenly come good. We've had zero indications that it will.

Many thanks for your considered and complete reply RR - I only had time to read the OP...

[reddoh]

1 minute ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

it doesn't matter, it is a very high sample for such a poll for LJ to still enjoy majority support that poll would have to be skewed beyond belief, the thing with forums is will almost always have a true cross section of supporters you can see that in the way that Johnson debate has developed over nearly 4 miserable months many staunch supporters have given up on him in ever growing numbers as the defeats progressed, you can see it with the Tomlin debate almost a 50/50 split there as well. This poll about Johnson has not got to where it is overnight, this has been 4 months of steady but surely people losing confidence.

I never voted either, I never vote in these polls.

if was in a mood to be kind I might say, perhaps his information lacky's have told him what he wants to hear, or he has been economical with the truth or he has misjudged the mood of the fans, but I believe it to be complete BS.

 

I will support every Manager until they go, I know I can't do any better.

[Redtucks]

3 hours ago, Tomarse said:

You've just formed an opinion yourself as well. Otib can be over dramatic at times but I would disagree right now that it's not representive of our fanbase. On all forms of social media and in person I reckon it's 80% in favour of LJ going 

So that's another opinion!

 

[Beni71]

SL cares deeply about this club and I'm sure LJ fully understands he's in the last chance saloon. Some of the comments on here show how nieve supporters really are on decision making and runnng a business. 

In SL business life he doesn't/didn't make snap decisions, he has had to think about the consequences of decision making not now but in 12 months time etc. Im sure he does reflect on how much money he has invested/wasted on Bristol City and I'm sure he has and continues to learn the hard way.

We are entitled to question his judgement on certain decisions but his dedication and desire to make Bristol City succeed at his personal cost can never be questioned. You don't realise what you have until its gone.

I have been super miserable for a few weeks all down to BCFC and the Cardiff game I was nearly in tears but please look at things in perspective. 

[Esmond Million's Bung]

2 minutes ago, reddoh said:

I will support every Manager until they go, I know I can't do any better.

And I applaud that but please don't invent excuses for him or our misguided owner or even some of the players.

I have always supported SL but today I believe he has not only let the fanbase down but himself also.

The way of the football world is thus, the badge kissing pussies get managers sacked 99.9% of the time but the law is the manager pays the price and from where I am sat LJ is no different to the other 91 league managers.

Amongst the telling statements today from our majority shareholder talking about majorities was a majority of the players are behind LJ, I found that a little worrying or perhaps he just got caught in the majority word merry go round?.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

8 minutes ago, Beni71 said:

SL cares deeply about this club and I'm sure LJ fully understands he's in the last chance saloon. Some of the comments on here show how nieve supporters really are on decision making and runnng a business. 

In SL business life he doesn't/didn't make snap decisions, he has had to think about the consequences of decision making not now but in 12 months time etc. Im sure he does reflect on how much money he has invested/wasted on Bristol City and I'm sure he has and continues to learn the hard way.

We are entitled to question his judgement on certain decisions but his dedication and desire to make Bristol City succeed at his personal cost can never be questioned. You don't realise what you have until its gone.

I have been super miserable for a few weeks all down to BCFC and the Cardiff game I was nearly in tears but please look at things in perspective. 

I agree but today IMO was a bad day at the office for SL.

 

[reddoh]

2 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

And I applaud that but please don't invent excuses for him or our misguided owner or even some of the players.

I have always supported SL but today I believe he has not only let the fanbase down but himself also.

The way of the football world is thus, the badge kissing pussies get managers sacked 99.9% of the time but the law is the manager pays the price and from where I am sat LJ is no different to the other 91 league managers.

Amongst the telling statements today from our majority shareholder talking about majorities was a majority of the players are behind LJ, I found that a little worrying or perhaps he just got caught in the majority word merry go round?.

to be honest I want football going back to be a sport and not a sports entertainment players get paid (or payed) a huge amount of money for rolling around the pitch like they have just been shot

[Esmond Million's Bung]

5 minutes ago, reddoh said:

to be honest I want football going back to be a sport and not a sports entertainment players get paid (or payed) a huge amount of money for rolling around the pitch like they have just been shot

You and me both, with a bit of luck they will all **** off to China and play.

[GoodridgeandGoater]

I posted before about how LJ should - and would - get more time based on his record over a year. But lose another five and he'd be in trouble.

That was four games ago. Even after what SL said today I think if we don't get a win by the end of Rotherham game, LJ is finished. 

[RedM]

It's obviously hurting SteveL, and LeeJ too. But its also hurting us fans. No one wants this, no one likes this but us fans have probably been more patient than is warranted at times.

For the first time tonight I'm thinking Steve's Project Lee is the most important thing to him, he can't be seen to lose face and see it fail. Maybe he's thinking relegation only for his manager to get us promoted again, he wants his 'told you so moment', but at what cost?

Maybe he isn't so hands on as he says.  But the people he has trusted are failing him, the club and the fans. I can't imagine still doing the same things will suddenly work, it's gone too wrong for that. Something or one one has to change. 

[Mike Hunt-Hertz]

2 minutes ago, RedM said:

It's obviously hurting SteveL, and LeeJ too. But its also hurting us fans. No one wants this, no one likes this but us fans have probably been more patient than is warranted at times.

For the first time tonight I'm thinking Steve's Project Lee is the most important thing to him, he can't be seen to lose face and see it fail. Maybe he's thinking relegation only for his manager to get us promoted again, he wants his 'told you so moment', but at what cost?

Maybe he isn't so hands on as he says.  But the people he has trusted are failing him, the club and the fans. I can't imagine still doing the same things will suddenly work, it's gone too wrong for that. Something or one one has to change. 

That would be an extremely weird way of saving face. But anything is possible in this pantomime.

[shelts]

When will the players stand up and be counted?!

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Just now, shelts said:

When will the players stand up and be counted?!

When have they ever at BCFC?, they have over the years done for every single sacked manager, why should LJ be any different?.

 

[shelts]

2 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

When have they ever at BCFC?, they have over the years done for every single sacked manager, why should LJ be any different?.

 

Our most costliest squad ever. Embarrassed by them. Good job Terry Coopers boys had a bit about them 

[Esmond Million's Bung]

9 minutes ago, shelts said:

Our most costliest squad ever. Embarrassed by them. Good job Terry Coopers boys had a bit about them 

My view is too many of modern day footballers is that they are overpaid, over protected badge kissing pussies, who have no problem with cheating to get an opponent sent off, which in my book lacks professionalism and moral fibre, they don't care and why should they?, the Payet situation tells you everything you need to know about modern football, a player can refuse to train or play for his club but still get paid that is outrageous.

 

[shelts]

1 minute ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

My view is too many of modern day footballers is that they are overpaid, over protected badge kissing pussies, who have no problem with cheating to get an opponent sent off, which in my book lacks professionalism and moral fibre, they don't care and why should they?, the Payet situation tells you everything you need to know about modern football, a player can refuse to train or play for his club but still get paid that is outrageous.

 

Ours are no different. Really disappointed by them. 

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Tomarse said:

You've just formed an opinion yourself as well. Otib can be over dramatic at times but I would disagree right now that it's not representive of our fanbase. On all forms of social media and in person I reckon it's 80% in favour of LJ going 

Assuming that you are serious.

For a poll to be accurate, the sample population should be selected randomly, otherwise the opportunity for bias can exist.

Recently the poll companies have found that they are not very good at choosing random sample populations and this has been demonstrated in the 2015 election, EU ref., the US election etc. I just wonder why some otib posters think they are good at selecting population samples? Couldn't possibly be bias could it?

As to the OP comment, I'll make some corrections:
Of a poll of 600 non-randomly selected otib members, 8 out of 10 posters said they'd sack LJ.

 

That out of the way, for SL to say what he said was foolish - he'd have been better off just saying 'Lee has my support' and leaving it at that. Mind you, I suppose he could be winding some fans up (I find the frothing at the mouth quite amusing)?

Finally, I believe the last 3 times the board and SL have said they back the manager, approximately 2-6 weeks later, they've been given the heave ho. Looks like LJ has got his verbal warning (and I say that as someone who is prepared to wait and see if LJ can turn this around).

[Esmond Million's Bung]

3 minutes ago, bcfcfinker said:

Assuming that you are serious.

For a poll to be accurate, the sample population should be selected randomly, otherwise the opportunity for bias can exist.

Recently the poll companies have found that they are not very good at choosing random sample populations and this has been demonstrated in the 2015 election, EU ref., the US election etc. I just wonder why some otib posters think they are good at selecting population samples? Couldn't possibly be bias could it?

As to the OP comment, I'll make some corrections:
Of a poll of 600 non-randomly selected otib members, 8 out of 10 posters said they'd sack LJ.

 

That out of the way, for SL to say what he said was foolish - he'd have been better off just saying 'Lee has my support' and leaving it at that. Mind you, I suppose he could be winding some fans up (I find the frothing at the mouth quite amusing)?

Finally, I believe the last 3 times the board and SL have said they back the manager, approximately 2-6 weeks later, they've been given the heave ho. Looks like LJ has got his verbal warning (and I say that as someone who is prepared to wait and see if LJ can turn this around).

So if this is a vote and not a poll is it accurate?.

[Mike Hunt-Hertz]

6 minutes ago, bcfcfinker said:

Assuming that you are serious.

For a poll to be accurate, the sample population should be selected randomly, otherwise the opportunity for bias can exist.

Recently the poll companies have found that they are not very good at choosing random sample populations and this has been demonstrated in the 2015 election, EU ref., the US election etc. I just wonder why some otib posters think they are good at selecting population samples? Couldn't possibly be bias could it?

As to the OP comment, I'll make some corrections:
Of a poll of 600 non-randomly selected otib members, 8 out of 10 posters said they'd sack LJ.

 

That out of the way, for SL to say what he said was foolish - he'd have been better off just saying 'Lee has my support' and leaving it at that. Mind you, I suppose he could be winding some fans up (I find the frothing at the mouth quite amusing)?

Finally, I believe the last 3 times the board and SL have said they back the manager, approximately 2-6 weeks later, they've been given the heave ho. Looks like LJ has got his verbal warning (and I say that as someone who is prepared to wait and see if LJ can turn this around).

I wish he had got his verbal warning a few matches ago.

[RumRed]

1 hour ago, Red-Robbo said:

He's not stayed at a hotel in Moscow with Donald Trump has he!  

Well the teams being pissed on every week in public so can't imagine that films like that would concern him.

[Mike Hunt-Hertz]

Just now, RumRed said:

Well the teams being pissed on every week in public so can't imagine that films like that would concern him.

The fans are being shat on!

[RumRed]

Just now, Mike Hunt-Hertz said:

The fans are being shat on!

Is that why we have SCAT?

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

So if this is a vote and not a poll is it accurate?.

Why don't you set up a poll to see what answer is most popular?

[Esmond Million's Bung]

1 minute ago, bcfcfinker said:

Why don't you set up a poll to see what answer is most popular?

it was a genuine question, you intimated polls can be wrong over actual voting, which in turn implies that either the samples are not fairly representative of the voters or a lot of samplees might have lied. Another genuine question is why would we need population samples, when the poll is about BCFC and more specifically LJ, these are genuine questions.

I agree with pretty everything that you say but I am trying to get my head around the poll bit.

 

 

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

it was a genuine question, you intimated polls can be wrong over actual voting, which in turn implies that either the samples are not fairly representative of the voters or a lot of samplees might have lied. Another genuine question is why would we need population samples, when the poll is about BCFC and more specifically LJ, these are genuine questions.

I agree with pretty everything that you say but I am trying to get my head around the poll bit.

 

 

I think you are over thinking it. If you've got the gist of it, that's good enough. This is a football forum, not an academic think tank.

[Up The City!]

1 hour ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

When have they ever at BCFC?, they have over the years done for every single sacked manager, why should LJ be any different?.

 

Like I've said before LJ isn't instructing players to give away silly penalties. Stupid free kicks. The players have to take the blame not LJ imo. 

[Benjam!n Ultra]

Odds on @Up The City! never posting again when he.. sorry LJ... is sacked?

[Up The City!]

Thinking a bit more into his comments about "the majority of supporters are behind him" and thinking maybe that comment isn't what it's supposed to mean? Poor choice of words maybe?

Maybe he was trying to say the majority of fans want this football club to succeed and to progress and to turn this form around and as LJ is remaining as manager, by supporting this club fans inadvertently are also behind the manager? 

In a If we succeed he succeeds, if he succeeds we succeed kind of thing.