Chris Wilder Offered City Job

[Davefevs]

I've said the same @samo II, but because it's used on Sky Sports, people think it's a key statistic.

At least use points per game, or average league position.

[Coppello]

51 minutes ago, Derek from Nailsea said:

Pembo spilled the beans then?

Nope, it's from an old friend who is a coach at Sheffield United who would've transferred with Wilder. 

[BobBobSuperBob]

1 minute ago, Coppello said:

Nope, it's from an old friend who is a coach at Sheffield United who would've transferred with Wilder. 

Personally @CoppelloI wouldn't say anymore about where it's come from

People either believe you or they dont

Protect your source mate  

And thanks for sharing what you heard 

[RT's Vaseline Tub]

3 minutes ago, Coppello said:

Nope, it's from an old friend who is a coach at Sheffield United who would've transferred with Wilder. 

As good as Dean Holden I hope

[Dullmoan Tone]

This story gives me some hope that perhaps SL won't stand by and let LJ take us back to League 1 - so many people want it to be true that he is at least considering other options

[Inactive user]

7 hours ago, Coppello said:

Nope, it's from an old friend who is a coach at Sheffield United who would've transferred with Wilder. 

I wonder how much longer for if he can't be discreet with this sort of information.

[Fiale]

50 minutes ago, Rednwhiterob said:

I wonder how much longer for if he can't be discreet with this sort of information.

 

Most people will talk about this kind of stuff with friends and family, I guess they just don't expect them to be foolish enough to splash it online.

[Guest]

On 04/02/2017 at 15:48, Coppello said:

Its worth starting this post by stating that I do not claim to be in the know but I came into the knowledge that Chris Wilder has been offered the job but subsequently rejected it. 

Apparently he was offered the job this week but rejected it without much thought as Sheffield United is his club. 

A friend of mine is a coach at Sheffield United and was offered a deal which would have tripled his salary. 

I'm very supportive of Lansdown and the news came as a great surprise to me so I wouldn't want to post things to put additional pressure on Johnson, however I thought it was worth passing the information on. 

I'll get my tin hat on... 

 

So, are you black ops?

[Rocking Red Cyril]

21 hours ago, ChippenhamRed said:

The fans wanted McInnes.

The fans wanted SOD.

The fans didn't want Cotterill.

Not sure what lesson Lansdown needs to learn from that...

Are you suggesting the fans have no idea what they on about ?

[Son of Fred]

On 05/02/2017 at 01:08, Fiale said:

Is not just common sense to have a few feelers out "of course there is no vacancy at our club, but how would you feel about managing us some time in the future?" - 

Under qualified..so the same as LJ.

If we go down I think we should be told who the other candidates alongside LJ (the ones we,if known,would be very surprised by)were..............

[Northern Red]

It would be very naive to think that alternatives to LJ aren't being discussed, agents sounded out etc.

[Wanderingred]

On 4 February 2017 at 21:43, Bar BS3 said:

It's not though, is it. 

 

Am I missing something? Hasnt Rowett led Birmingham to two successive top 10 Championship finishes, and when he left last year they were in the top six? How is that not significantly better than LJs record? Im confused.

[Bar BS3]

3 minutes ago, Kim_il_sung said:

Am I missing something? Hasnt Rowett led Birmingham to two successive top 10 Championship finishes, and when he left last year they were in the top six? How is that not significantly better than LJs record? Im confused.

I was asking based on the 2 managers win percentage being fairly similar. 

@samo II has put itinfar greater detail and Rowett does indeed appear to have a better record. 

There is something niggling me about him though. I can't put my finger on it. He doesn't seem to be attracting much other real interest from clubs seeking new management. (Maybe he's already agreed to come here..?!)

 

[Phileas Fogg]

16 hours ago, Coppello said:

Nope, it's from an old friend who is a coach at Sheffield United who would've transferred with Wilder. 

From what you're saying, I imagine it would be a first team coach.

According to Wiki (so may not be totally accurate), these are their current first team coaches. I wonder who it would've been, Alan Knill has worked with Wilder at Bury and Northampton so he's by far the most logical choice for who might move with him again. Don't expect you to name your source of course, just a bit of fun having a stab at who you might've spoken to.

Assistant Manager	Alan Knill
Fitness Coach	Lee Rickards
Fitness Coach	Lee McMahon
Goalkeeping Coach	Darren Ward

[Wanderingred]

1 hour ago, Bar BS3 said:

I was asking based on the 2 managers win percentage being fairly similar. 

@samo II has put itinfar greater detail and Rowett does indeed appear to have a better record. 

There is something niggling me about him though. I can't put my finger on it. He doesn't seem to be attracting much other real interest from clubs seeking new management. (Maybe he's already agreed to come here..?!)

 

What other clubs at this level are currently looking for a new manager though? Can only think of Forest and who'd touch them with a bargepole right now given their bonkers owners?

[Bar BS3]

8 minutes ago, Kim_il_sung said:

What other clubs at this level are currently looking for a new manager though? Can only think of Forest and who'd touch them with a bargepole right now given their bonkers owners?

True. Although by that rational, we aren't looking for a new a manager either. 

 

[wendyredredrobin]

I actually said to Steve, that my choice at the time was Coppell and thought he would be a great appointment,  cannot believe the way that one went.

I get the feeling that signing David James may have had something to do with it.

[oldstandrobin]

On 2/4/2017 at 16:06, Major Isewater said:

Choice of coach wouldn't surprise me , SL shopping in the lower Leagues again .

Buys his groceries at Fortnum and Mason..............his managers at Poundstretchers 

[havanatopia]

23 hours ago, samo II said:

Christ; I've said it before, and I'll say it again - **** win %.

This is THE most base way of assessing managerial success, and without context means nothing.

A much, much better way of judging managerial quality is via the basics of league position (for example; Rowett's average league finish in the Championship is 10th - an excellent achievement) or if you want to look at stats, how many games in which managers avoid loss.

I've stuck together some overall stats on loss % ratios, as well as club-specific ones - see the images for the stats (from wikipedia, and up-to-date as of this weekend) - but in numbers;

Rowett % of games lost

Career - 31%
Birmingham - 30.2%

LJ % of games lost

Overall - 37.4%
Bristol City - 46.2%

And for the record, LJ's win ratio at City is 38.5% - less than the % he has lost (raw numbers; he's lost four more games than hes won), while Rowett's at Brum was 39.6%; both higher overall, and significantly better than games lost %.

So, to put the record as straight as can be; over twice as many games, and 20-or-so% more games across their entire careers, Gary Rowett is statistically a better manager, and has a better record at this level.

Please can we cut out this chatter over it - Rowett has a superior record as it stands.  LJ might lead a phoenix-like recovery and void that, but as it stands Rowett's record is better.

I read the first sentence of your post and thought... could not agree more. Who needs damned statistics anyway.

...It all went mind blowingly numb from there on. 

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

6 hours ago, billywedlock said:

That is normal as he is doing his job . The Southampton version of stability comes from the recruitment and analysis and they have a list of coaches identified just as much as players . So MA is doing his job and that is why I personally feel he is the best signing we have made in years . He helped build the L1 winning side , something that gets forgotten. 

I hope we one day bring in a strong man manager with a notable increase in coaching experience. Millen now has some great experience for example and would be a great number 2. They are out there , but as managers get fired a lot , most names are deemed unfashionable as the view is based on last job. Someone with a promotion out of this league and some Prem experience would be interesting , fitting into our business model of course . 

Championship is not really a nice league , physical and not as technical as we like to think , actually I saw better football played in L1 . 

LJ is here for a while yet , but the crowd are clearly close to running out of patience . It's almost to the point where we missed the opportunity, and you might as well let him see the season out . We cannot get any worse . Not sure we can attract the right appointment anyway now . 

Still think we can scrape it , but what concerns me most is that Saturday was a big game but I did not see a team playing with the intensity and drive that we did vs Boro last season . We don't have that heart anymore . We looked like the awful City teams of recent years . deja vu 

 

 

I expect that even if Lee was doing well then SL/MA would still be keeping tabs on who's next- all club's must do that to an extent. It became pretty clear that LJ had been lined up as a replacement well before Cotts went.

Just about every club are stuck in the same Managerial revolving door either through poor results or too much success.

It wouldn't  surprise me if the gun had been loaded some time ago but there being no clear target of an alternative Manager out there at present.

What does surprise me is that many fans think that SL having invested £50m in Ashton Gate and then c.£15m on team building is blind to our situation.He will be making his decisions behind the scenes and LJ may not be the first to learn what they are. SC was sacked by text ( or at least that's what SC told me) so there's a pretty ruthless streak there when he wants.

As far as the players go- most seem scared of their own shadow atm but I think that's more about lack of confidence than lack of a plan.

 

[BCFC_Dan]

On 05/02/2017 at 14:06, EnclosureSurge said:

You don't need to know what B's budget is - he didn't spend any money at all, but took a club who were down21st to finish in the top 10, twice, and had them 7th when he was sacked. that looks like it was going to be 3 seasons in a row, just outside the play-offs - which we'd kill for - spending no money...WHAT IS IT PEOPLE DON'T UNDERSTAND ABOUT ROWETT being good?

I'm not getting into a discussion about who is a better manager out of Gary Rowett and Lee Johnson - Rowett's record is clearly a good one.

What's always interested me is the fixation we seem to have in this country on doing well on a limited budget. We make the assumption for some reason that if manager X achieves a certain result with a limited budget that he will automatically achieve a much better result with a higher budget and I'm not sure that's the case.

If you can get the best out of a small, limited set of players then you're a good manager, but you have various decisions about selection made for you and you may not have to deal with players who aren't playing, or who are on high wages and have egos to match.

Again, I'm not saying that LJ has a harder job than GR because he has more money to spend (if indeed he does) but that succeeding in one situation is no guarantee of succeeding in a different situation. It takes one set of skills to forge a small, tight-knit group of lower league players into a decent side and another to spend a large budget correctly, select the right players from a large squad, and keep the remaining players happy.

[Kid in the Riot]

10 minutes ago, BCFC_Dan said:

I'm not getting into a discussion about who is a better manager out of Gary Rowett and Lee Johnson - Rowett's record is clearly a good one.

What's always interested me is the fixation we seem to have in this country on doing well on a limited budget. We make the assumption for some reason that if manager X achieves a certain result with a limited budget that he will automatically achieve a much better result with a higher budget and I'm not sure that's the case.

If you can get the best out of a small, limited set of players then you're a good manager, but you have various decisions about selection made for you and you may not have to deal with players who aren't playing, or who are on high wages and have egos to match.

Again, I'm not saying that LJ has a harder job than GR because he has more money to spend (if indeed he does) but that succeeding in one situation is no guarantee of succeeding in a different situation. It takes one set of skills to forge a small, tight-knit group of lower league players into a decent side and another to spend a large budget correctly, select the right players from a large squad, and keep the remaining players happy.

Very good post, however Rowett would've managed players on very similar wages to ours though and no doubt had some ego's in the dressing room at Brum. He also may not have wished, nor needed, the high turnover of players LJ has (presumably) requested/given his blessing to. If we were doing better up until Christmas for example, it's doubtful we'd have made 5 new signings.

It doesn't always work out for the best as you suggest, but it doesn't take an enormous leap of faith to see that given a better squad of players and more flexibility for transfers in/out that given his record at Brum Rowett would be doing a decent job here. A better one than LJ. But alas we don't know for sure, of course.

[Jack Dawe]

43 minutes ago, BCFC_Dan said:

 

What's always interested me is the fixation we seem to have in this country on doing well on a limited budget. We make the assumption for some reason that if manager X achieves a certain result with a limited budget that he will automatically achieve a much better result with a higher budget and I'm not sure that's the case.

If you can get the best out of a small, limited set of players then you're a good manager, but you have various decisions about selection made for you and you may not have to deal with players who aren't playing, or who are on high wages and have egos to match.

Again, I'm not saying that LJ has a harder job than GR because he has more money to spend (if indeed he does) but that succeeding in one situation is no guarantee of succeeding in a different situation. It takes one set of skills to forge a small, tight-knit group of lower league players into a decent side and another to spend a large budget correctly, select the right players from a large squad, and keep the remaining players happy.

This could be read as a damning criticism of the decision to appoint LJ 12 months ago. I would, though, question the suggestion in the final paragraph that there is no crossover in skills between managing in L1 at Oldham and managing here. If that were correct, you really would have to worry about SL and his judgment. The assumption you reference in your first paragraph I would be pretty sure is one that SL is labouring under.

[BCFC_Dan]

4 minutes ago, Jack Dawe said:

This could be read as a damning criticism of the decision to appoint LJ 12 months ago. I would, though, question the suggestion in the final paragraph that there is no crossover in skills between managing in L1 at Oldham and managing here. If that were correct, you really would have to worry about SL and his judgment. The assumption you reference in your first paragraph I would be pretty sure is one that SL is labouring under.

My post wasn't really about Lee Johnson, Gary Rowett or Steve Lansdown. It was meant in more general terms about the way we assume that a manager who succeeds without money will be even more successful with money despite the fact that the latter job requires skills not needed, and hence not tested, by the former.

You could take that and say it applies to LJ, who had a more limited budget at Oldham and Barnsley than at City and you'd be right. You could also say that Gary Rowett has managed successfully with a Championship squad and budget and you'd be right. What I'm interested in is the assumption that all managers will do better with more money to spend and I'm not sure that's the case.

[Lanterne Rouge]

2 hours ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

I expect that even if Lee was doing well then SL/MA would still be keeping tabs on who's next- all club's must do that to an extent. It became pretty clear that LJ had been lined up as a replacement well before Cotts went.

Just about every club are stuck in the same Managerial revolving door either through poor results or too much success.

It wouldn't  surprise me if the gun had been loaded some time ago but there being no clear target of an alternative Manager out there at present.

What does surprise me is that many fans think that SL having invested £50m in Ashton Gate and then c.£15m on team building is blind to our situation.He will be making his decisions behind the scenes and LJ may not be the first to learn what they are. SC was sacked by text ( or at least that's what SC told me) so there's a pretty ruthless streak there when he wants.

As far as the players go- most seem scared of their own shadow atm but I think that's more about lack of confidence than lack of a plan.

 

And even if SL isn`t about to sack him what if LJ walks? We`d need someone then.

[Jack Dawe]

52 minutes ago, BCFC_Dan said:

My post wasn't really about Lee Johnson, Gary Rowett or Steve Lansdown. It was meant in more general terms about the way we assume that a manager who succeeds without money will be even more successful with money despite the fact that the latter job requires skills not needed, and hence not tested, by the former.

You could take that and say it applies to LJ, who had a more limited budget at Oldham and Barnsley than at City and you'd be right. You could also say that Gary Rowett has managed successfully with a Championship squad and budget and you'd be right. What I'm interested in is the assumption that all managers will do better with more money to spend and I'm not sure that's the case.

We have very little to go on other than assumptions, when it comes to discussing potential coaches. It's all just guesswork, conjecture. Even those actually charged with making these decisions are groping in the dark to a certain degree. 

[EnclosureSurge]

2 hours ago, BCFC_Dan said:

I'm not getting into a discussion about who is a better manager out of Gary Rowett and Lee Johnson - Rowett's record is clearly a good one.

What's always interested me is the fixation we seem to have in this country on doing well on a limited budget. We make the assumption for some reason that if manager X achieves a certain result with a limited budget that he will automatically achieve a much better result with a higher budget and I'm not sure that's the case.

If you can get the best out of a small, limited set of players then you're a good manager, but you have various decisions about selection made for you and you may not have to deal with players who aren't playing, or who are on high wages and have egos to match.

Again, I'm not saying that LJ has a harder job than GR because he has more money to spend (if indeed he does) but that succeeding in one situation is no guarantee of succeeding in a different situation. It takes one set of skills to forge a small, tight-knit group of lower league players into a decent side and another to spend a large budget correctly, select the right players from a large squad, and keep the remaining players happy.

Put it round the other way, can you see Mourinho succeeding with no money to spend? But Rowett may be more likely, given what he has done so far, to spend any money wisely and cautiously and more judiciously than someone who throws it around willy-nilly. He already has the man-management to get the best out of cheaper players and wouldn't need to spend £ms to get us further up the table. The money available could be spent on wages, not transfer fees.

[weepywall]

We would have more chance of getting Gene Wilder !!!!

[Alessandro]

Hypothetically would people even actually want Chris Wilder?!

 

 

[Kid in the Riot]

11 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

Hypothetically would people even actually want Chris Wilder?!

No, not really. He's doing a very good job at his boyhood club and why on earth Mark Ashton, who knows him well, would think he'd join us at the moment is quite baffling. 

Concerning if these are the types of approaches we are making. Maybe Rowett isn't interested or we aren't willing to match his wage demands.