Chris Wilder Offered City Job

[ashton_fan]

10 hours ago, Superjack said:

If you think that John Pemberton has anywhere near the same amount of input under Lee Johnson as he had under the previous manager then I would wager that you are wrong. I am frankly surprised that the 'little general' hasn't shown him the door like he has with others that brought us success before he turned up. Maybe Pemberton's apparent popularity within the club has protected him from the same fate. Whatever the situation, he is the one coach at the club that I wouldn't be laying the blame for this cluster***k of recent form at the feet of.

If we give Pembo the job full-time he will probably end up like Millen and be lost to the club, whereas while he's here he provides continuity and a safe pair of hands as a caretaker when a manager is sacked. I rate him highly and he'd started to turn things around last season before LJ arrived.

[BCFC_Dan]

5 hours ago, spudski said:

I think we may have limited ourselves in who coach's or manages us in the future though.

The managing it seems is done by MA. The coaching by LJ. I think the Club sees this as a way forward...keeping the two parts of the job separate, which imo, is a good thing, as it lets one man solely work on the playing side.

You're right, it does limit our options in terms of future managers but if you look at it from the opposite direction then it makes things easier.

A traditional football manager needs to be good at coaching, motivating, tactics, balancing a budget, evaluating the squad, identifying players, negotiating deals and dealing with contracts. That's a lot of skills to find on one man.

When appointing a new manager they have to look for somebody who has proved himself adept at as many of those things at as high a level as possible but not so good or so high that they are unobtainable. This, as we know, is tricky. Every single manager we've appointed in the past 20+ years has had a major fault in one area or another.

If the jobs are broken down and responsibilities are divided then it should become easier to find people who are good at each particular area. We seem to have found someone who is outstanding at bringing players in, so that's part of the job dealt with. The jury is out as to how well they've evaluated the squad and identified replacements, but I think most of the signings are viewed as at least promising by most people.

The final part of the jigsaw is the coaching, motivating and tactics. All three have a big question mark over them at the moment. Either LJ proves himself capable or someone else comes in who can do them better.

As you say, it's hard to find people in England to do this as most expect to handle the other areas, but they do exist, especially on the continent where the pattern is more normal. 

[BobBobSuperBob]

5 hours ago, spudski said:

I totally agree BW.

I think we may have limited ourselves in who coach's or manages us in the future though.

Traditionally managers like to work their way and bring in their team of people.

I'm now under the impression that the Club have set up a blue print as to how they want it run...and not how any individual manager wants to run it.

Any new coach/manager would have to agree to this set up.

The managing it seems is done by MA. The coaching by LJ. I think the Club sees this as a way forward...keeping the two parts of the job separate, which imo, is a good thing, as it lets one man solely work on the playing side.

Any new Coach would also have to agree with the new pathway of getting Academy players through quickly...and work closely with the Academy.

Very few Coach's would agree to this...as they know it's a massive risk blooding players and can effect how it looks for them on their personal CV if it goes wrong.

I know the Academy love LJ because he takes an active interest, like no other manager before.

So when people talk about bringing in new coach's and managers, they need to keep this situation into consideration.

We are doing it differently...and any new Coach would have to fit in with that ideology.

That's why I'm content to let LJ try and turn things around...because he has agreed to the idea and strategy.

This certainly goes back to Mckinne's days...more so with SoD where he actually started to set things up, that turned out detrimental to him and the first team, SC agreed in principle first season...then turned 'feral'...someone else's term not mine who is associated with the Club...and LJ has been 'groomed' for this position because the club knew he would agree to do it and was excited by the idea and challenge and could work as a team rather than a lone wolf.

It's not quite that though Spud

MA indicated we would recruit the best people available for the various roles

But that's not exactly what has happened is it - LJ has brought in Holden , McCallister for example 

Any new coach would want some allies in his own coaching team I'd surmise

So there's still change to be done

I do accept that the Academy , ? U23 ? , Scouting network should / would remain the same which makes sense (If doing a good job)

 

[spudski]

17 minutes ago, BCFC_Dan said:

You're right, it does limit our options in terms of future managers but if you look at it from the opposite direction then it makes things easier.

A traditional football manager needs to be good at coaching, motivating, tactics, balancing a budget, evaluating the squad, identifying players, negotiating deals and dealing with contracts. That's a lot of skills to find on one man.

When appointing a new manager they have to look for somebody who has proved himself adept at as many of those things at as high a level as possible but not so good or so high that they are unobtainable. This, as we know, is tricky. Every single manager we've appointed in the past 20+ years has had a major fault in one area or another.

If the jobs are broken down and responsibilities are divided then it should become easier to find people who are good at each particular area. We seem to have found someone who is outstanding at bringing players in, so that's part of the job dealt with. The jury is out as to how well they've evaluated the squad and identified replacements, but I think most of the signings are viewed as at least promising by most people.

The final part of the jigsaw is the coaching, motivating and tactics. All three have a big question mark over them at the moment. Either LJ proves himself capable or someone else comes in who can do them better.

As you say, it's hard to find people in England to do this as most expect to handle the other areas, but they do exist, especially on the continent where the pattern is more normal. 

Totally agree mate...although I have said in another post today, that I'm not so keen on MA being solely in charge of what he does...I'd prefer a team of say three people with equal responsibility.

7 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

It's not quite that though Spud

MA indicated we would recruit the best people available for the various roles

But that's not exactly what has happened is it - LJ has brought in Holden , McCallister for example 

Any new coach would want some allies in his own coaching team I'd surmise

So there's still change to be done

I do accept that the Academy , ? U23 ? , Scouting network should / would remain the same which makes sense (If doing a good job)

 

It would have been a joint decision fella.

Obviously LJ will want to bring in people he gets on with, and who also agree to the Clubs philosophy. If he can find them, which he has in McCallister and Holden, then it makes sense.

What wouldn't make sense, was if you brought in a coach that had all the abilities but you couldn't work with him.

This is what happened with SC and Carlos Anton. The Academy wanted Carlos...but SC saw it differently...and they clashed.

All our coach's from academy upwards, now work together as one...not against one another.

[BobBobSuperBob]

5 minutes ago, spudski said:

Totally agree mate...although I have said in another post today, that I'm not so keen on MA being solely in charge of what he does...I'd prefer a team of say three people with equal responsibility.

It would have been a joint decision fella.

Obviously LJ will want to bring in people he gets on with, and who also agree to the Clubs philosophy. If he can find them, which he has in McCallister and Holden, then it makes sense.

What wouldn't make sense, was if you brought in a coach that had all the abilities but you couldn't work with him.

This is what happened with SC and Carlos Anton. The Academy wanted Carlos...but SC saw it differently...and they clashed.

All our coach's from academy upwards, now work together as one...not against one another.

With you on that - I just think the reality is If SL decided to change , we would struggle to find many coaches that would not want one or two coaches of their own alongside , and likely one or both of Holden would go IMO

I think it would be easier to convince a new coach that the Academy will remain the same and the scouting network , largely at least 

And obviously  In theory you have MA to maintain continuity 

The plan is good in principle and if operated well , but it does preclude a fair few successful managers !!

[spudski]

10 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

With you on that - I just think the reality is If SL decided to change , we would struggle to find many coaches that would not want one or two coaches of their own alongside , and likely one or both of Holden would go IMO

I think it would be easier to convince a new coach that the Academy will remain the same and the scouting network , largely at least 

And obviously  In theory you have MA to maintain continuity 

The plan is good in principle and if operated well , but it does preclude a fair few successful managers !!

It's a very common way of working at Clubs abroad...we just do it totally differently in this Country fella.

Relying on one man to do many things doesn't make sense when you think about it.

Many managers have been players in the past, what do they know about, budgets, accounts, facts and figures and how to discuss contracts with Agents and lawyers?

It's what happened for many years...crazy when you think about it, especially when being bank rolled by clever businessmen.

[BobBobSuperBob]

3 minutes ago, spudski said:

It's a very common way of working at Clubs abroad...we just do it totally differently in this Country fella.

Relying on one man to do many things doesn't make sense when you think about it.

Many managers have been players in the past, what do they know about, budgets, accounts, facts and figures and how to discuss contracts with Agents and lawyers?

It's what happened for many years...crazy when you think about it, especially when being bank rolled by clever businessmen.

Whether it's the most successful model , what had become a joke was when Some Managers were taking a bus load of staff from the physio to the tea boy from one club to another (My ole mate Big Sam being one of the worst , though tbf he was also an early utiliser of sports science and analysis) 

There were 8,10,12 or more backroom staff going when the manager changed which is clearly expensive and wholly unnecessary

Personally , If I was SL / MA I would allow the new coach to bring his own coach , possibly two if he could justify why , and that would be it 

[spudski]

5 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Whether it's the most successful model , what had become a joke was when Some Managers were taking a bus load of staff from the physio to the tea boy from one club to another (My ole mate Big Sam being one of the worst , though tbf he was also an early utiliser of sports science and analysis) 

There were 8,10,12 or more backroom staff going when the manager changed which is clearly expensive and wholly unnecessary

Personally , If I was SL / MA I would allow the new coach to bring his own coach , possibly two if he could justify why , and that would be it 

First manager to work out where the ball most often landed after a corner was taken. Promptly stuck a player there, and scored many goals from the second ball coming in. Think he did this whilst at Bolton.

I remember him telling me all about it, whilst sat next to him at a Charity event up in Manchester. Lovely bloke...regardless of how the press portray him to be some old buffoon.

You'll know all that though ;-)

[BobBobSuperBob]

4 minutes ago, spudski said:

First manager to work out where the ball most often landed after a corner was taken. Promptly stuck a player there, and scored many goals from the second ball coming in. Think he did this whilst at Bolton.

I remember him telling me all about it, whilst sat next to him at a Charity event up in Manchester. Lovely bloke...regardless of how the press portray him to be some old buffoon.

You'll know all that though ;-)

What surprised me , ( and that was totally ridiculous pre conception   based on voice , on appearance and reputation as a hard man) was just how intelligent and deep,thinking he is !!

Was one of the first to use pro-zone

All the tech stuff just doesn't look right with his Mike Bassett appearance !!

 

 

And the biggest hands I've ever seen on a footballer !!!

[spudski]

3 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

What surprised me , ( and that was totally ridiculous pre conception   based on voice , on appearance and reputation as a hard man) was just how intelligent and deep,thinking he is !!

Was one of the first to use pro-zone

All the tech stuff just doesn't look right with his Mike Bassett appearance !!

 

 

And the biggest hands I've ever seen on a footballer !!!

This is going to sound totally weird...but his mouth and tongue are mesmerising close up...almost hypnotic. It was like watching a frog eat and talk...not at the same time I may add. I also have a funny memory of him taking a step up the stairs at my ex's step fathers house...think Dallas :laugh:....and him catching his toe and chinning it. a Big bloke to haul up, especially after a few drinks :laugh:

[BobBobSuperBob]

Just now, spudski said:

This is going to sound totally weird...but his mouth and tongue are mesmerising close up...almost hypnotic. It was like watching a frog eat and talk...not at the same time I may add. I also have a funny memory of him taking a step up the stairs at my ex's step fathers house...think Dallas :laugh:....and him catching his toe and chinning it. a Big bloke to haul up, especially after a few drinks :laugh:

Blimey , say that again

When I first met him I was chatting to Phil Brown in the bar and said something about how imposing SA is and Phil Brown said 'Oh aye , If Sam says it's Wednesday , It's Wednesday , even if it's Thursday' 

 

BTW - Phil Brown - absolutely outstanding bloke as in friendly , sociable , grounded , & funny as **** 

 

Well he was until the PO final when he became a Geordie ******

(Not really ! - Hope he gets himself up the football pyramid again)

[spudski]

3 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Blimey , say that again

When I first met him I was chatting to Phil Brown in the bar and said something about how imposing SA is and Phil Brown said 'Oh aye , If Sam says it's Wednesday , It's Wednesday , even if it's Thursday' 

 

BTW - Phil Brown - absolutely outstanding bloke as in friendly , sociable , grounded , & funny as **** 

 

Well he was until the PO final when he became a Geordie ******

(Not really ! - Hope he gets himself up the football pyramid again)

Doing alright at Southend it seems.

So many managers out of jobs these days. All being pushed down the system...basically because of so many foreigners and young pups coming through.

[spudski]

1 minute ago, billywedlock said:

I think there are many that have a public perception or unfashionable name that in a one to one, away from a game are quite different and surprisingly coherent! There are a couple a a lot worse mind you.....

Gary Neville for one...top bloke. Sound as a pound. apart from his taste in houses.

His brother...completely opposite.

[BobBobSuperBob]

4 minutes ago, spudski said:

Gary Neville for one...top bloke. Sound as a pound. apart from his taste in houses.

His brother...completely opposite.

Here's one for you then Spud / anyone 

 

SL gets up,tomorrow and thinks 'I've had enough Lees going to have to go'

Within an hour Gary Neville comes on the phone and says 'Mr Lansdown , I really fancy managing your club and your project'

Would you take a,punt on Gary Neville ?

 

(I would)

Edit

In fact the more I think about it ( I've said Hoddle all along to date if we are to maintain the project but I just don't think we'd think that way) I'd even go as far to say I'd approach GN as my first target

 

I know it won't be popular necessarily but I can't believe a bloke who talks so much sense , is so grounded and speaks and explains so well , a bloke who has standards and has been to the very very top of the game (and had to learn all the way ) wouldn't make a great coaching this country and at our level 

[spudski]

4 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Here's one for you then Spud / anyone 

 

SL gets up,tomorrow and thinks 'I've had enough Lees going to have to go'

Within an hour Gary Neville comes on the phone and says 'Mr Lansdown , I really fancy managing your club and your project'

Would you take a,punt on Gary Neville ?

 

(I would)

I'd have to interview him to see what he says to give a proper answer mate. ;-)

Half the time we don't know exactly what restrictions and budgets owners put in place. Or what is asked of them.

If he was into the 'project'...and it didn't work out for LJ...

On paper...then yes I would too.

[BobBobSuperBob]

9 minutes ago, spudski said:

I'd have to interview him to see what he says to give a proper answer mate. ;-)

Half the time we don't know exactly what restrictions and budgets owners put in place. Or what is asked of them.

If he was into the 'project'...and it didn't work out for LJ...

On paper...then yes I would too.

Of course , whoever anyone thinks might be good , without being able to ask various questions and get a close up vibe it's impossible to say - just a bit of 'what's your hunch' fun

Dont know whether you saw my edit but the more I think about it I think I'd approach him / speak to him

I think a major problem would be that he's back in at Sky and has some major business affairs now , which is a shame that he might not manage anywhere

As for the project , I think from all I've read and heard about him he would , but he'd also be ruthless sensible and want some quality experience about (Which tbf doesn't appear to be a major issue)

Of course he'd be a gamble but I could see him being a real success at this level

Edit

As long as he doesn't bring his brother !!

(Lovely fella , but no ! )

[BobBobSuperBob]

@spudski

Did you listen to the Eddie Howe Documentary ?

I couldn't at Time but it's here if you or anyone else is interested

http://utv.vo.llnwd.net/o16/talkSPORT/audio/current2016/talkSPORT-20170204-125910.mp3

Gonna listen myself later 

 

[spudski]

@BobBobSuperBob I agree mate...haven't listened to the interview, so thanks for the link.

Another manager I like, who I used to follow regularly when watching Man Utd reserves is Ole Gunnar Solskjaer...I know he didn't fair well at Cardiff, but imo, it was the wrong job at the wrong time.

However...I don't think he has any intention of leaving Norway any time soon...and who can blame him :-)

[BobBobSuperBob]

8 minutes ago, spudski said:

@BobBobSuperBob I agree mate...haven't listened to the interview, so thanks for the link.

Another manager I like, who I used to follow regularly when watching Man Utd reserves is Ole Gunnar Solskjaer...I know he didn't fair well at Cardiff, but imo, it was the wrong job at the wrong time.

However...I don't think he has any intention of leaving Norway any time soon...and who can blame him :-)

Havnt listened to it but in the preview clips he was on the training ground barking out instructions / drills so I think it's a interview / documentary combined - something Guillem Balague Normally does very well

sounds like a good listen for anyone who,wonders what a modern day coach does through a day / match day 
 

if the above link isn't right this is probably a better one

 

http://talksport.com/inside-football-guillem-balague

 

 

[Smokey]

13 hours ago, spudski said:

I know the Academy love LJ because he takes an active interest, like no other manager before.

 

Lets put him in charge of the Academy then and get someone in who can manage the 1st team.

[spudski]

2 minutes ago, smokey live said:

Lets put him in charge of the Academy then and get someone in who can manage the 1st team.

Who do you suggest that can guarantee success?

[BobBobSuperBob]

7 minutes ago, smokey live said:

Lets put him in charge of the Academy then and get someone in who can manage the 1st team.

Did make me chuckle , I nearly jokingly posted the same !!!

Someone was going to say it !! 

 

[Smokey]

4 minutes ago, spudski said:

Who do you suggest that can guarantee success?

No one can guarantee success.

[Smokey]

1 minute ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Did make me chuckle , I nearly jokingly posted the same !!!

Ha ha. I should of put a smiley face at the end

[BobBobSuperBob]

1 minute ago, smokey live said:

Ha ha. I should of put a smiley face at the end

Get your tin hat on !!! 

 

[spudski]

19 minutes ago, smokey live said:

No one can guarantee success.

Perhaps it's not just the manager that's the problem?

We've been a yo yo team for years...no manager achieves anything here long term...Fans keep shouting for a new manager every season. When has any new manager given us any period of success? You'd think we'd learnt by now...but same old thing...'Sack the manager'.

Different managers, different players, different backroom staff, money thrown at it, new stadium...blah blah blah...but always...'sack the manager'.

Worth thinking about eh?

[Strictly Obi]

4 minutes ago, spudski said:

Perhaps it's not just the manager that's the problem?

We've been a yo yo team for years...no manager achieves anything here long term...Fans keep shouting for a new manager every season. When has any new manager given us any period of success? You'd think we'd learnt by now...but same old thing...'Sack the manager'.

Different managers, different players, different backroom staff, money thrown at it, new stadium...blah blah blah...but always...'sack the manager'.

Worth thinking about eh?

I agree. You either have a short term plan,  which could be for example  to avoid relegation.  Or you have a long term plan.  In which case you stick with a manager no matter what,  in hope you gain long term success.  Well we've tried the former,  tis why I and a minority of others fans are willing to give the later a chance! 

[Curr Avon]

47 minutes ago, spudski said:

Who do you suggest that can guarantee success?

Arsene Nostradamus?

[Fiale]

I thought the Academy had it's own manager and assistant, they also have managers and assistants for each age category all under the Academy manager. This stays in place regardless (though as mentioned Jamie was brought in for U23). The new coach for the first team is just him and he gets to bring an assistant (or 2) to aid him with first team duties, but he should not have any bearing on the academy any more.... I cannot see this changing now, the club seem to have learnt their lessons.

[Phileas Fogg]

14 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Here's one for you then Spud / anyone 

 

SL gets up,tomorrow and thinks 'I've had enough Lees going to have to go'

Within an hour Gary Neville comes on the phone and says 'Mr Lansdown , I really fancy managing your club and your project'

Would you take a,punt on Gary Neville ?

 

(I would)

Edit

In fact the more I think about it ( I've said Hoddle all along to date if we are to maintain the project but I just don't think we'd think that way) I'd even go as far to say I'd approach GN as my first target

 

I know it won't be popular necessarily but I can't believe a bloke who talks so much sense , is so grounded and speaks and explains so well , a bloke who has standards and has been to the very very top of the game (and had to learn all the way ) wouldn't make a great coaching this country and at our level 

Ooh interesting one. 

I think I would! What I like about Neville is that he is quite comfortable with the fact that he was one of the least talented of that Class of 92' but maximised his ability through sheer hard work and grit. He's book is a great read, I have a lot of time for him after reading it.

He's won pretty much everything and played with some of the best players in the world.

Clearly a clever guy, but definitely took the Valencia job far too early. Perhaps there are some parallels there between him and Lee at this job. He'll have no doubt learned lots from his time in Spain and I'm sure he'll be a successful manager one day. I think he'd be humble enough to take a job at a lower level now to prove himself.

If a managers position became available, and he was happy to slot into the head coach role rather than manager, I think he'd be a very interesting suggestion to consider.