Advice on police please

[Alan Dicks' Barmy Army]

A friend of mine was in court last week, and won his case (not in the case of a missing poster on OTIB this is genuinely about someone else)

We were in a pub over the weekend, and the policeman that led the case was sat across from our families, he didn't realise we were sat there

We then very clearly heard him talking to the people he was sat with, not only about this case but others he was working on too

Question is, would the police have some kind of confidentiality clause in their contracts?

Should my friend be taking this further?

 

[Esmond Million's Bung]

16 minutes ago, Alan Dicks' Barmy Army said:

A friend of mine was in court last week, and won his case (not in the case of a missing poster on OTIB this is genuinely about someone else)

We were in a pub over the weekend, and the policeman that led the case was sat across from our families, he didn't realise we were sat there

We then very clearly heard him talking to the people he was sat with, not only about this case but others he was working on too

Question is, would the police have some kind of confidentiality clause in their contracts?

Should my friend be taking this further?

 

Unless he was either talking about court cases not yet heard in open court or defaming anybody, I doubt very much that he has done anything wrong, once a case has been heard it is in the public domain, he can talk about it in the same way others can and it can be plastered over the media end of.

That is my thoughts.

[Robbored]

18 minutes ago, Alan Dicks' Barmy Army said:

A friend of mine was in court last week, and won his case (not in the case of a missing poster on OTIB this is genuinely about someone else)

We were in a pub over the weekend, and the policeman that led the case was sat across from our families, he didn't realise we were sat there

We then very clearly heard him talking to the people he was sat with, not only about this case but others he was working on too

Question is, would the police have some kind of confidentiality clause in their contracts?

Should my friend be taking this further?

 

That unprofessional behaviour from the copper. If there were indepent  witnesses who heard the disclosure then you have evidence to report him and you should. We had exactly the same confidentially rules in the NHS.

If family members were only witnesses then reporting the episode would be seen as unreliable evidence.

[phantom]

Maybe one for @JulieH / @Fordy62 ?

Agree with @Robbored there is strict confidentiality rules in my place of work, but can also understand where @Esmond Million's Bung is coming from

[JulieH]

Any person who has been charged and in court, these are in the public domain and therefore can be discussed 

it depends on what the police officer said. Did he mention names of culprits? Or was it in general talking about cases he has been dealing with without naming anyone?

Very difficult to answer without knowing exactly what was said unfortunately 

[Fordy62]

Do you want a pragmatic answer?

What exactly are you hoping to come of a complain? I don’t mean this rudely... but said officer isn’t going to get the sack or realistically In any way seriously reprimanded. THey might have a quiet word spoken to them, but realistically that’s all you’re likely to get done. And it might take a fair amount of your time to get to that point. 

I discuss cases with my friends. They don’t ever know specifics or names, but I’m happy to share the circumstances with others, it’s what we all do with work isn’t it?

of course, it depends on entirely what said officer said, but I doubt you’ll get a return that you’ll see represents the time you’ll spend complaining. 

 

[Fordy62]

5 minutes ago, ziderheadarmy said:

I find this quite a arrogant response if you are actually anything to do with the police force. So you can do what you want you feel as you will get away with it anyway. 

I don’t discuss my job with my mates really as I have more interesting enjoyable things to discuss with them plus I respect the confidentiality agreements I have signed up with my employer.

Julies response was far more mature and professional.

Sorry mate. I think you’ve taken this the wrong way or you’re having a really bad day. 

[Fordy62]

3 minutes ago, ziderheadarmy said:

Hi mate, I just took it on it’s own merits. 

I’m having a pretty decent day so far for a Monday to be honest. 

Ok, well I think my helpful tone - rather than condescending one - was obviously lost in the written text. 

Reading it, I can see how it might have seemed arrogant, but I assure you it wasn’t. 

[BigTone]

11 hours ago, Fordy62 said:

Ok, well I think my helpful tone - 

I do my best 

[Alan Dicks' Barmy Army]

Thank you for the replies, to be honest it was more the fact that he was openly discussing the case, naming the names of people involved and giving out details

In my line of work if I spoke out about certain things I would be in massive trouble, if I started naming names I would at least get a warning, just surprised there isn't similar in such a sensitive line of work

[WhistleHappy]

16 hours ago, Fordy62 said:

Do you want a pragmatic answer?

What exactly are you hoping to come of a complain? I don’t mean this rudely... but said officer isn’t going to get the sack or realistically In any way seriously reprimanded. THey might have a quiet word spoken to them, but realistically that’s all you’re likely to get done. And it might take a fair amount of your time to get to that point. 

I discuss cases with my friends. They don’t ever know specifics or names, but I’m happy to share the circumstances with others, it’s what we all do with work isn’t it?

of course, it depends on entirely what said officer said, but I doubt you’ll get a return that you’ll see represents the time you’ll spend complaining. 

 

Fancy a chat about Fruit n Nut cases?   

 

[Esmond Million's Bung]

On 12/18/2017 at 14:28, Robbored said:

That unprofessional behaviour from the copper. If there were indepent  witnesses who heard the disclosure then you have evidence to report him and you should. We had exactly the same confidentially rules in the NHS.

If family members were only witnesses then reporting the episode would be seen as unreliable evidence.

You are wrong, it sounds as though this has been to court and as such is in the public domain, would you report newspapers for reporting it as well?.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

5 hours ago, Alan Dicks' Barmy Army said:

Thank you for the replies, to be honest it was more the fact that he was openly discussing the case, naming the names of people involved and giving out details

In my line of work if I spoke out about certain things I would be in massive trouble, if I started naming names I would at least get a warning, just surprised there isn't similar in such a sensitive line of work

As I said and I reminded RR of and JulieH has alluded to, if it's been to court then it's in the public domain all of it names etc. Unless he has in any way defamed you then I suspect that you or your friend haven't got a leg to stand on.

To be honest, I really don't understand why if you were so unhappy with this incident that you didn't confront the copper at the time and explained your unhappiness and that you would be taking advice?.

[Maesknoll Red]

19 hours ago, ziderheadarmy said:

I find this quite a arrogant response if you are actually anything to do with the police force. So you can do what you want you feel as you will get away with it anyway. 

I don’t discuss my job with my mates really as I have more interesting enjoyable things to discuss with them plus I respect the confidentiality agreements I have signed up with my employer.

Julies response was far more mature and professional.

I read it as a decent response, on a forum where the poster is well known and didn’t find anything arrogant about it at all.  

I must admit, if it had been me in the original situation, I would have spoke to the copper at the time if I felt aggrieved, but as has been said, if he was only repeating what is now a matter of public record, then he wasn’t doing anything wrong.

[Robbored]

17 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

As I said and I reminded RR of and JulieH has alluded to, if it's been to court then it's in the public domain all of it names etc. Unless he has in any way defamed you then I suspect that you or your friend haven't got a leg to stand on.

That wasn't apparent in the OP EMB.

I remember very well that as an NHS professional any discussion/chat about our patients, past or present was strictly forbidden in case (like the OP ) outsiders may overhear. I can't say that in my 38 years in the NHS I ever saw or heard of anyone getting disciplined. That's not so say it didn't happen of course.

[Maesknoll Red]

1 minute ago, Robbored said:

That wasn't apparent in the OP EMB.

I remember very well that as an NHS professional any discussion/chat about our patients, past or present was strictly forbidden in case (like the OP ) outsiders may overhear. I can't say that in my 38 years in the NHS I ever saw or heard of anyone getting disciplined. That's not so say it didn't happen of course.

Medical records and patient confidentiality are a bit different than court records, which are in the public domain.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

1 minute ago, Robbored said:

That wasn't apparent in the OP EMB.

I remember very well that as an NHS professional any discussion/chat about our patients, past or present was strictly forbidden in case (like the OP ) outsiders may overhear. I can't say that in my 38 years in the NHS I ever saw or heard of anyone getting disciplined. That's not so say it didn't happen of course.

Take a look at the very first sentence it says "A friend of mine was in court last week", that puts it firmly into the public domain, unless the magistrates/judge have applied reporting restrictions, which usually only occurs before a case goes to trial to stop trial by media.

[Robbored]

1 minute ago, Maesknoll Red said:

Medical records and patient confidentiality are a bit different than court records, which are in the public domain.

Obviously MR..........I

The point is that imo that the copper referred to in the OP was behaving in an unprofessional manner by discussing one of his previous case in a public domain.

The fact that the case had been done an dusted doesn't matter one iota. He should not have been discussing any of his work in a public place. Had I overheard something like that I'd would certainly had spoken to him privately.

 

[Robbored]

8 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

Take a look at the very first sentence it says "A friend of mine was in court last week", that puts it firmly into the public domain, unless the magistrates/judge have applied reporting restrictions, which usually only occurs before a case goes to trial to stop trial by media.

So if the copper was saying "he should never have got off" is ok then because the records are freely available?

[Esmond Million's Bung]

11 minutes ago, Robbored said:

So if the copper was saying "he should never have got off" is ok then because the records are freely available?

RR you must be intelligent to have held the job that you did for many years.

'IF', he said what you are suggesting it's an 'opinion', being in the police, NHS, the clergy, parliament or any other job imaginable cannot prevent you in a democracy having an opinion, although I am sure that one or two politicians would like to ban opinions.

PS:- Did you have an opinion when OJ Simpson was acquitted?, I know I did and I suspect everybody involved in the case did and many of them voiced those opinions.

[Robbored]

2 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

RR you must be intelligent to have held the job that you did for many years.

'IF', he said what you are suggesting it's an 'opinion', being in the police, NHS, the clergy, parliament or any other job imaginable cannot prevent you in a democracy having an opinion, although I am sure that one or two politicians would like to ban opinions.

The OP doesn't say what the copper actually said - other than he was discussing the completed case.

My point is that we in the NHS never discussed cases outside of the workplace regardless of whether said patient was past or present. It was simply a no-no.

Im really surprised that that doesn't apply in the police.

[Maesknoll Red]

8 minutes ago, Robbored said:

The OP doesn't say what the copper actually said - other than he was discussing the completed case.

My point is that we in the NHS never discussed cases outside of the workplace regardless of whether said patient was past or present. It was simply a no-no.

Im really surprised that that doesn't apply in the police.

When I was younger I went out with a couple of nurses ( not both at the same time) and when in their company, especially in a group of medical people, the stories and tales  were numerous, funny and often ridiculing the patients who presented with some odd things.  The veil of secrecy you claim is a fallacy.....

[Esmond Million's Bung]

3 minutes ago, Robbored said:

The OP doesn't say what the copper actually said - other than he was discussing the completed case.

My point is that we in the NHS never discussed cases outside of the workplace regardless of whether said patient was past or present. It was simply a no-no.

Im really surprised that that doesn't apply in the police.

Let me put into a nutshell and hopefully you might understand.

You read that a former patient was recently in court, there is nothing to prevent you or anybody else talking about that case in the pub with your mates, because it's in the public domain, patient confidentiality is not in the public domain. Now I expect that even you have discussed a court case before and I am sure that you have opinions one way or the other and you have every right to discuss it because it's in the public domain and to hold your opinions.

Now if the officer concerned has passed on information let's say about intelligence, private and personal detail that the police hold on the person or has defamed that person he has not done anything wrong at all, as @Fordy62 has already mentioned at worst with the scant evidence provided I would say that any complaint might at best/worst result in a senior officer having a discreet word with said officer and explaining the meaning of discreet, but to be honest the officer could easily turn around and tell him where to shove his advice, because on the face of it he has done nothing wrong in the eyes of the law or according to I suspect police regulations.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

9 minutes ago, Maesknoll Red said:

When I was younger I went out with a couple of nurses ( not both at the same time) and when in their company, especially in a group of medical people, the stories and tales  were numerous, funny and often ridiculing the patients who presented with some odd things.  The veil of secrecy you claim is a fallacy.....

Ditto, the 'willy ward' was always a favourite, blokes with biro inserts inserted into where it shouldn't be and being unable to remove said insert etc and so forth.

[Robbored]

16 minutes ago, Maesknoll Red said:

When I was younger I went out with a couple of nurses ( not both at the same time) and when in their company, especially in a group of medical people, the stories and tales  were numerous, funny and often ridiculing the patients who presented with some odd things.  The veil of secrecy you claim is a fallacy.....

When there was a group of professional people together either in the workplace or socially then (obviously) patients both past and present were mentioned all the time. Our hospital social club was rife with such stories both humorous (largely) and tragic but in that kind of environment it was accepted as normal 'shop' talk. We were all doing the same kind of job.

However the same group of professionals out in a local pub for example 'shop' talk was a no-no unless the topic was about anything other than our patients - various managers was always a favourite just like any other workplace.

The nurses/medics you mention were being indiscreet in the extreme.

 

[Esmond Million's Bung]

11 minutes ago, Robbored said:

When there was a group of professional people together either in the workplace or socially then (obviously) patients both past and present were mentioned all the time. Our hospital social club was rife with such stories both humorous (largely) and tragic but in that kind of environment it was accepted as normal 'shop' talk. We were all doing the same kind of job.

However the same group of professionals out in a local pub for example 'shop' talk was a no-no unless the topic was about anything other than our patients - various managers was always a favourite just like any other workplace.

The nurses/medics you mention were being indiscreet in the extreme.

 

Next you will ask us to believe that you have never ever discussed cases with the first or the second Mrs RR?.

[Robbored]

16 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

Next you will ask us to believe that you have never ever discussed cases with the first or the second Mrs RR?.

Of course we discussed work! but rarely our individual patients. She and I worked in different areas so we didn't share the same ones. We often discussed a good way to support/treat/help our patients tho but largely work issues were about managers and always within our home.

It was only a problem when she wouldn't take my adivice! 

[Esmond Million's Bung]

2 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Of course we discussed work! but rarely our individual patients. She and I worked in different areas so we didn't share the same ones. We often discussed a good way to support/treat/help our patients tho but largely work issues were about managers and always within our home.

It was only a problem when she wouldn't take my adivice! 

Then that is no different to the indignation that you displayed to @Maesknoll Red post, you can have exactly no idea at all what happened with the information that you imparted.

[Robbored]

55 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

Then that is no different to the indignation that you displayed to @Maesknoll Red post, you can have exactly no idea at all what happened with the information that you imparted.

Um.......unless our daughter aged around 18/12  around that time could remember our conversations I doubt the conversations went nowhere outside of our home.

[WhistleHappy]

5 hours ago, Robbored said:

Um.......unless our daughter aged around 18/12  around that time could remember our conversations I doubt the conversations went nowhere outside of our home.

Fathers making overtures around their daughters is in my opinion not to be encouraged, please desist.

( P S :  do you really use such terms as aged 18/12 etc in normal everyday conversation with normal non nerdy types? ... are they well received and generally understood or do they lead to awkward silences or nudges, winks and a perception of ridicule and sarcasm in replies? .... Can't imagine such pretentious terminology being readily accepted without comment in local pubs or among regular folk elsewhere to be honest.

  Why do you use it in forums like ours when you know full well most of us will be thinking '' Ohh ffs what's RR on about again now? where the flipping heck did he pick this nonsense up, and why the **** does he keep using it at almost every opportunity.. )