AshtonGreat Posted January 31, 2018 Report Share Posted January 31, 2018 How exactly could the club ban people anyway? Seems like a hard thing to police Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted January 31, 2018 Report Share Posted January 31, 2018 Talk of ‘banning’ people for goading opposition fans? Stupid. There’s a difference between ‘goading’ fans and throwing punches. They’d have to hand out banning orders in every single ground in the country every week if this was enforced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1960maaan Posted January 31, 2018 Report Share Posted January 31, 2018 7 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said: How exactly could the club ban people anyway? Seems like a hard thing to police If you take it to the letter of the law, it is an offence to go on the pitch and people have been banned for that. Now if they show any common sense, and the club will be under pressure and it may be more Police/FA lead , then only people causing trouble when on the pitch will be in trouble. From memory not too many were, some Manc but not many others. What with CCTV and national TV coverage they won't be short of proof if they need it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted January 31, 2018 Report Share Posted January 31, 2018 How do people react to the EFL observers thing, and the club coming under pressure etc? Ask @JulieH As well as taking the standard line, she would probably tacitly agree with this theory I suspect? On a general note, had there been one v Man City- say we had beat Man City and there had been one- I think we could well have been hammered over it. Past evidence suggests that the EFL, FA etc 'tolerate' one per season and that's your lot. 2 in a month and we would have been under severe scrutiny IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted January 31, 2018 Report Share Posted January 31, 2018 2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: How do people react to the EFL observers thing, and the club coming under pressure etc? Ask @JulieH As well as taking the standard line, she would probably tacitly agree with this theory I suspect? We seem to be under a bit of scrutiny and have been told it’s because of the pyro. Thing is, I’m sure we’re not the only club in the country to have had incidents with pyro at home games this season. I wonder how it’s assessed that the EFL need to look at certain clubs. Perhaps it’s a SAG recommendation? Maybe it’s worked out by the ratio of police to supporters on match days? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted January 31, 2018 Report Share Posted January 31, 2018 4 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said: We seem to be under a bit of scrutiny and have been told it’s because of the pyro. Thing is, I’m sure we’re not the only club in the country to have had incidents with pyro at home games this season. I wonder how it’s assessed that the EFL need to look at certain clubs. Perhaps it’s a SAG recommendation? Maybe it’s worked out by the ratio of police to supporters on match days? We do indeed. I would suggest it's because of the pyro in general terms, but a pitch invasion on top of that suggests it's stacking up- they will all have taken a dim view in light of the pyro. (Barnsley, Boro and possibly even Manchester- plus the away games at Brentford and Birmingham). If there was a pyro chart, that would be handy...other clubs I have no idea but I think we have a bit of a reputation for it. Would be interesting to see the figures however. SAG? Yeah, plausibly. Police to supporters at AG seems a bit high for the modern era too IMO. Thought this for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted January 31, 2018 Report Share Posted January 31, 2018 3 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: We do indeed. I would suggest it's because of the pyro in general terms, but a pitch invasion on top of that suggests it's stacking up- they will all have taken a dim view in light of the pyro. (Barnsley, Boro and possibly even Manchester- plus the away games at Brentford and Birmingham). If there was a pyro chart, that would be handy...other clubs I have no idea but I think we have a bit of a reputation for it. Would be interesting to see the figures however. I’ve seen plenty of clubs using them. Leeds and Sheffield Weds as you’d expect are particularly prolific. I’d guess we’re probably above average but nothing too extreme.. the whole thing seems a bit odd. 3 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: SAG? Yeah, plausibly. Police to supporters at AG seems a bit high for the modern era too IMO. Thought this for a while. Yes the suspiciously high numbers of police around a certain section of our fans in particular. Who makes that recommendation? Another SAG proposal I would wager. If only their minutes were in the public domain... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshtonGreat Posted January 31, 2018 Report Share Posted January 31, 2018 13 minutes ago, 1960maaan said: If you take it to the letter of the law, it is an offence to go on the pitch and people have been banned for that. Now if they show any common sense, and the club will be under pressure and it may be more Police/FA lead , then only people causing trouble when on the pitch will be in trouble. From memory not too many were, some Manc but not many others. What with CCTV and national TV coverage they won't be short of proof if they need it. No I get all of that, but what I meant was: how could the club realistically stop people from entering the ground? It strikes me that anyone could swipe a ticket under the barcode reader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted January 31, 2018 Report Share Posted January 31, 2018 6 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said: I’ve seen plenty of clubs using them. Leeds and Sheffield Weds as you’d expect are particularly prolific. I’d guess we’re probably above average but nothing too extreme.. the whole thing seems a bit odd. Yes the suspiciously high numbers of police around a certain section of our fans in particular. Who makes that recommendation? Another SAG proposal I would wager. If only their minutes were in the public domain... It is quite odd yes. I think the club are doing this (as the OP story) to appease the SAG and others. Pyros? As I say a League table would be excellent, in context after the flurry at the start of the season, there's been only 2 other incidents so it's not so bad. I remember Leeds damaged our pitch at AG with one so they should be hauled over the coals too. I think a key part of the issue is our SAG don't particularly 'get' football fans or culture. Similar arguably to Mr Storr in some respects? Agreed- how a public body responsible for safety of a lot of people can just hide behind this is fairly remarkable tbh. @AshtonGreat CCTV probably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingswood Robin Posted January 31, 2018 Report Share Posted January 31, 2018 39 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: A key line In other words, we did everything right but... The fact there were EFL observers there- tells a story of us being under some scrutiny because of flares etc. We really need to move on from 1976 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Rob Posted January 31, 2018 Report Share Posted January 31, 2018 Authorities might be looking at the club more than fans when it comes to pyro. Are they doing enough to stop people from bringing them in? Should our a stewarding be reviewed and increased, or should we have more police in the stadium. Hopefully not as this is additional expense, but it wouldn't surprise me if the club are trying/pretending to be pro-active to avoid some sort of sanction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted January 31, 2018 Report Share Posted January 31, 2018 4 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: It is quite odd yes. I think the club are doing this (as the OP story) to appease the SAG and others. Pyros? As I say a League table would be excellent, in context after the flurry at the start of the season, there's been only 2 other incidents so it's not so bad. I remember Leeds damaged our pitch at AG with one so they should be hauled over the coals too. I think a key part of the issue is our SAG don't particularly 'get' football fans or culture. Similar arguably to Mr Storr in some respects? Agreed- how a public body responsible for safety of a lot of people can just hide behind this is fairly remarkable tbh. I believe @Blagdon red posted that strictly speaking SAG groups should have supporter representation at meetings but ours choose not to. That and the shroud of secrecy are pretty concerning. All it will do is arouse suspicion and make people believe SAG do not operate in the supporter’s best interests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted January 31, 2018 Report Share Posted January 31, 2018 16 minutes ago, Kingswood Robin said: We really need to move on from 1976 15 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said: I believe @Blagdon red posted that strictly speaking SAG groups should have supporter representation at meetings but ours choose not to. That and the shroud of secrecy are pretty concerning. All it will do is arouse suspicion and make people believe SAG do not operate in the supporter’s best interests. Agreed... I think the SAG do various important things though, like making sure (we hope!) fire procedures and equipment is all up to date, first aid posts are fully stocked with up to date equipment etc. They clearly do (we hope!) look at the key safety aspect of it all. It's one element of it that causes bad feeling and concern I think. The lack of supporter representation at meetings...is very odd. @Bristol Rob There are more stewards. Numbers have been increased- did you see how many v both Manchester clubs e.g.? On a general note, the SAG issue...it literally is a lottery. Seems to vary by local authority tbh as to the transparency or lack of! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC&T Board Members Blagdon red Posted January 31, 2018 SC&T Board Members Report Share Posted January 31, 2018 18 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said: I believe @Blagdon red posted that strictly speaking SAG groups should have supporter representation at meetings but ours choose not to. That and the shroud of secrecy are pretty concerning. All it will do is arouse suspicion and make people believe SAG do not operate in the supporter’s best interests. Yep, our SAG refuses to follow Sports Ground Safety Authority guidance and have supporter representation on their committee. Unlike some SAGs, they also do not publish minutes of their meetings and refuse FOI requests for information on matters discussed, in which fans, by definition (as the users of the stadium concerned) have a legitimate interest. Perhaps @Matt Parsons BCFCSLO could add this to his long 'to do' list? On the pitch invasion per se, strictly speaking everyone who went onto the pitch broke the law. It could therefore be argued that the club (and the SAG) are being lenient in this instance by waiving any punishment of the vast majority and seeking to penalise only those shown by clear video evidence to have done so with anything other than celebratory intent in mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted January 31, 2018 Report Share Posted January 31, 2018 9 minutes ago, Blagdon red said: Yep, our SAG refuses to follow Sports Ground Safety Authority guidance and have supporter representation on their committee. Unlike some SAGs, they also do not publish minutes of their meetings and refuse FOI requests for information on matters discussed, in which fans, by definition (as the users of the stadium concerned) have a legitimate interest. Perhaps @Matt Parsons BCFCSLO could add this to his long 'to do' list? This is pretty concerning really and is why I view SAG with extreme suspicion and will do until this changes. Hopefully Matt can intervene here because there’ll never be a healthy working relationship between fans, the Club and authorities (including SAG) until something changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC J Posted January 31, 2018 Report Share Posted January 31, 2018 @Mkelly is this nonsense or what? I had a bit of fun with it, had been on the p*ss all day and witnessed my club beat Manchester United in the 93rd minute infront of a packed out AG. By the time I'd gotten onto the pitch most of the players had cleared off, so had a bit of a laugh with the United fans. If it is a banable offence to wind up a few United fans then the game is seriously dead, there was no trouble whatsoever from what I saw. 4 arrests on the night from what I've read, par for the course at any football fixture. In the old East End every ****er used to run to the segregation by the away fans when we scored and goad them, would that be worthy of a ban nowadays as well? Absolutely ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glynriley Posted January 31, 2018 Report Share Posted January 31, 2018 6 minutes ago, BCFC J said: @Mkelly is this nonsense or what? I had a bit of fun with it, had been on the p*ss all day and witnessed my club beat Manchester United in the 93rd minute infront of a packed out AG. By the time I'd gotten onto the pitch most of the players had cleared off, so had a bit of a laugh with the United fans. If it is a banable offence to wind up a few United fans then the game is seriously dead, there was no trouble whatsoever from what I saw. 4 arrests on the night from what I've read, par for the course at any football fixture. In the old East End every ****er used to run to the segregation by the away fans when we scored and goad them, would that be worthy of a ban nowadays as well? Absolutely ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC J Posted January 31, 2018 Report Share Posted January 31, 2018 2 minutes ago, glynriley said: Me IRL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Rob Posted January 31, 2018 Report Share Posted January 31, 2018 18 minutes ago, BCFC J said: @Mkelly is this nonsense or what? I had a bit of fun with it, had been on the p*ss all day and witnessed my club beat Manchester United in the 93rd minute infront of a packed out AG. By the time I'd gotten onto the pitch most of the players had cleared off, so had a bit of a laugh with the United fans. If it is a banable offence to wind up a few United fans then the game is seriously dead, there was no trouble whatsoever from what I saw. 4 arrests on the night from what I've read, par for the course at any football fixture. In the old East End every ****er used to run to the segregation by the away fans when we scored and goad them, would that be worthy of a ban nowadays as well? Absolutely ridiculous. Have you just put your hands up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1960maaan Posted January 31, 2018 Report Share Posted January 31, 2018 1 hour ago, AshtonGreat said: No I get all of that, but what I meant was: how could the club realistically stop people from entering the ground? It strikes me that anyone could swipe a ticket under the barcode reader. Ahh I see. Entering the ground might be tough to stop, but the OB have spotters etc. Once in the ground there is CCTV everywhere and if caught again I would guess it would be a much harsher punishment. It's not like in the olden days , I had mates going to games, that were banned, every week. One even had to report to a station and still made it to Newport for a game. Nowadays technology has changed that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshtonGreat Posted January 31, 2018 Report Share Posted January 31, 2018 10 minutes ago, 1960maaan said: Ahh I see. Entering the ground might be tough to stop, but the OB have spotters etc. Once in the ground there is CCTV everywhere and if caught again I would guess it would be a much harsher punishment. It's not like in the olden days , I had mates going to games, that were banned, every week. One even had to report to a station and still made it to Newport for a game. Nowadays technology has changed that. Yeah I guess so. It'd be a tough task though, I imagine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1960maaan Posted January 31, 2018 Report Share Posted January 31, 2018 8 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said: Yeah I guess so. It'd be a tough task though, I imagine. If you mean spotting someone. We were outside a pub before a home game and the Police turned up being over keen and throwing their weight around for 10 minutes, then a lad was grabbed for being too close to the ground under a banning order. Doubt if someone recognised him as that would have been quicker, but they somehow sussed him and took him to the van. Way and means mate, ways and means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted January 31, 2018 Report Share Posted January 31, 2018 Saw a piece about 'so-called 'risk' fans. The sophistication of the surveillance...relies on both high-tech and low-tech means. In the event they are banned, it would be highly unlikely they would be able to enter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC J Posted January 31, 2018 Report Share Posted January 31, 2018 45 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said: Have you just put your hands up? Too right mate, guilty as charged of a t***er gesture to some Mancs. Expecting life sentence. Not sure if you're on Twitter but there was an appeal by FSF Faircop the other day as a fan of an unnamed club was banned for making a ****** gesture to a player Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Parsons Posted January 31, 2018 Report Share Posted January 31, 2018 2 hours ago, Blagdon red said: Yep, our SAG refuses to follow Sports Ground Safety Authority guidance and have supporter representation on their committee. Unlike some SAGs, they also do not publish minutes of their meetings and refuse FOI requests for information on matters discussed, in which fans, by definition (as the users of the stadium concerned) have a legitimate interest. Perhaps @Matt Parsons BCFCSLO could add this to his long 'to do' list? On the pitch invasion per se, strictly speaking everyone who went onto the pitch broke the law. It could therefore be argued that the club (and the SAG) are being lenient in this instance by waiving any punishment of the vast majority and seeking to penalise only those shown by clear video evidence to have done so with anything other than celebratory intent in mind. Noted and on the list to ask the question @Blagdon red @Phileas Fogg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBristolian Posted January 31, 2018 Report Share Posted January 31, 2018 2 hours ago, Blagdon red said: Yep, our SAG refuses to follow Sports Ground Safety Authority guidance and have supporter representation on their committee. Unlike some SAGs, they also do not publish minutes of their meetings and refuse FOI requests for information on matters discussed, in which fans, by definition (as the users of the stadium concerned) have a legitimate interest. Perhaps @Matt Parsons BCFCSLO could add this to his long 'to do' list? On the pitch invasion per se, strictly speaking everyone who went onto the pitch broke the law. It could therefore be argued that the club (and the SAG) are being lenient in this instance by waiving any punishment of the vast majority and seeking to penalise only those shown by clear video evidence to have done so with anything other than celebratory intent in mind. The second paragraph is how I see it. Ultimately pitch invasions are punishable by the FA and the courts. However everyone wants fans to be able to invade the pitch in moments of celebration but, for that to work, people have to help the club by not doing anything that can get the club into trouble. I do think there is a difference between goading opposition fans when you are in your own area - where the stewards have controls to make sure there is no confrontation between supporters and opposition fans and doing it when you are on the pitch, and already technically breaking the law, so the club will be in more trouble if there are any consequences from that. I think it's understandable the club need to crack down in people who take the piss in these situations - otherwise the risk is the club gets into trouble and then they need to make sure nobody is allowed onto the pitch in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted January 31, 2018 Report Share Posted January 31, 2018 My own take on it is that pitch invasions on the last home game of season- especially if it is to celebrate something tangible like staying up or going up or reaching the playoffs are tolerated. Not welcomed but reluctantly tolerated, and understood. The problem in the eye of the authorities- and I mean the SAG, EFL and FA as well as the police- is if it happens mid-season. It just is perceived differently, even though those who know football know it's fully understandable...I get the impression they don't consider it as such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC&T Board Members Blagdon red Posted January 31, 2018 SC&T Board Members Report Share Posted January 31, 2018 1 hour ago, Matt Parsons BCFCSLO said: Noted and on the list to ask the question @Blagdon red @Phileas Fogg Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulieH Posted January 31, 2018 Report Share Posted January 31, 2018 Thank you for tagging me at the beginning of this thread however I am not sure what I can, add, enquiries and review of cctv footage is still ongoing with a view to identify those that sought disorder from both Bristol City and man united. I spoke to the force lead and force representative on sag , my superintendent; last week around fans questions around sag and other football policing matters, he is happy to attend a public meeting and take question etc . perhaps this is a consideration for the slo to also add to his list to gauge interest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted January 31, 2018 Report Share Posted January 31, 2018 18 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: The problem in the eye of the authorities- and I mean the SAG, EFL and FA as well as the police- is if it happens mid-season. It just is perceived differently, even though those who know football know it's fully understandable...I get the impression they don't consider it as such. Exactly why the club tell fans to stay off the pitch but they obviously don't listen. They see it as cool and good fun........... The last time I went on the pitch was in 1976 and back then no one batted an eyelid. It's very different these days and the authorities take a dim view. The club fear the pitch getting damaged and/or a FA fine. The police see it as a danger to the public and as for Health and Safely...........there must an infringement list as long as your arm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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