If not LJ, then who?

[Davefevs]

7 hours ago, Olé said:

Completely agree. There are no leaders at all. Bobby by example, but no one by fear. Korey is the only one who gees them up but no one, absolutely no one, gets into them and takes it personally when so many are off their game. Can you imagine half of Millwall's players tolerating the way we are playing? Players like Baker have a massive soft underbelly that a team like Millwall only need to tickle. There was so much hype about this bloke but he's being found out when we need performances.

Having commented on the video, the Lee Johnson press conference audio is an even more honest (and depressing) assessment, WOW, to quote a cliche he's pulling no punches (https://www.bcfc.co.uk/news/audio-lee-johnson-post-millwall-away-press-conference/ from 2:50 onwards) - if he really feels that way about the players ("we've tried everything, given them a break ... if I knew the answer I'd have done it ... do they really want to be here") then I have both sympathy and respect for him. 

I wonder if our biggest problem is that LJ is never going to be a strong leader type figure (and if he's a good coach, he shouldn't have to be), BUT he  then also isn't comfortable having that sort of character in the team because strong and older personalities tend to end up clashing with him? Perhaps we're sort of in catch 22. As an observation, he  talks about busy players and I know what he means, but I also see a trend of them being  young, quiet, easily malleable players. It's no coincidence. 

I always fall back to business because that is what I know, and one of the easiest and most common mistakes/flaws in organisation I see time and again is younger managers/leaders (often with plenty going for them and lots of good ideas) downgrading the quality of leadership around them in their team because they are insecure in their own position and are terrified of being second guessed and can't manage strong personalities. And as a result the leadership throughout the team suffers.

If that is why we have no leaders, I think @Red Exile you have got to the heart of our problem.

@Bobfish covered what I was gonna say in post #138....very astute both of you.

5 hours ago, hodge said:

Look at Cotts record in the championship, he's a league one manager who couldn't do it at a higher level. LJ's achieving more by fighting for the play offs (even if we fall away and don't make it) and getting us to the league cup semi final 

Tin hat on, but I think Cotts would’ve done a decent job with the funding LJ has had.  I know a lot / most of you will disagree.

4 hours ago, LondonBristolian said:

I really don't see it with Dean Smith. Competent manager, teams play nice football, is well-rated by people outside the club, but his teams are prone to defensive lapses and contriving ways to lose when dominating possession. I suspect Brentford have a higher wage bill than us, have been in the division longer, are probably one of the best teams in the division on their and are about tenth. As they were last season. I don't think Dean Smith is a bad manager but I do think he is basically the manager we have already. 

See my topic on Championship Finances.  Brentford Budget last season was £14.7m v ours of £17.9m.  They play Moneyball (recruit and sell) better than us though.

2 hours ago, Olé said:

Without necessarily disagreeing with your view of SL, as a point of order, the above statement isn't true at all, and I don't think for one moment that it is naive to wonder about the nature of leadership at Bristol City. Founders of incredibly successful companies can and often do have many flaws, for a start they are not recruited for their leadership or their interpersonal skills, they start the company and are often immovable from then on and what makes them successful and what remains their primary asset is simply their drive for and knowledge of their company and vision. Actually very often founders can be single-minded and autocratic towards others they hire.

SL co-founded HL and would have been in control from the start. Senior recruitment could quite easily have reflected the founders tolerance for others influence and it's certainly possible (and happens in many other businesses) that they could simply ignore or dispense with other senior employees they did not get on with or agree with, and recruit yes men. It's therefore hypothetically possible such a style of leadership structure has been replicated in the football club he owns. I agree with your overall point and about Cotterill, just chirping in to say it's a myth that a founder would have to be great at dealing with people to be a success - many famous founders aren't.

As to whether this really is true of SL - the only practical evidence we have is comments he made in defending LJ during our bad run last season, when he referred (in my view quite naively as much because I can keep mentioning it!) to a number of standing weekly calls/meetings he has with LJ where he discusses and influences football matters. Now as it happens, I think he's well within his rights as owner to do that and I would probably do the same if I bought a football club, but it also follows on from this, that a strong minded coach who tells him to "**** off and mind his own business or who did not agree with him, would not be someone he'd enjoy working with...

Last season I went off on one re leadership, senior players, young players etc, based on an experience I had.  I was one of a few senior players in a team with a manager who started to play young kids over us, because We had an opinion.  We went from P8,W4,D4,L0, conceding 4, to surviving relegation on the final day....as the senior players were gradually "removed’ and replaced by easily impressed kids.

[BRISTOL86]

Tony Mowbray 

[Dynamite Red]

If you go for experience I like the idea of McCarthy annd think he would better utilise a the budget here, experienced getting out of this league.

If you want an up and coming young manager then look no further than Paul Hurst at Shrewsbury, performed minor miracles.

If Lansdown is unwavering from his strategy (which is why LJ is so secure) then I actually think Paul Tisdale (puts tin hat) would be a good fit if you want an experienced youngish coach who over performs with a low budget, develops young players.

Craig Shakespeare and Danny Cowley are both two interesting choices.

Not advocating any of these, just throwing out ideas.

[Jacki]

27 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

Yep. Simply a Premier League version of LJ.

I think he’s significantly worse than LJ. At least you get the good runs with LJ as well. Pardew hasn’t had one of those for about 3 years. 

[Spike]

So many names thrown around but I think a lot of what people glaze over based on name alone is:

Will these names be able to work within Steve Lansdowns conditions?
Will these names be financially realistic?
Will these names want to live in Bristol?
Will these names be able to improve on where we are now?

Genuinely, I'd love a big name manager with loads of experience but realistically I don't see that as an option, I just think managers have much better options than us in general, we#re more of the stepping stone towards something bigger in their eyes.

[old_eastender]

As a left field option how about Mikel Arteta, assistant coach at Man City, might be looking to forge his own managerial career and could bring to reality the fabled use of Man City youngsters on loan?

Reality is, as much as I and many others would like to be rid of LJ, it is not going to happen, until it's too late. Perhaps best we can hope for, is someone like Joe Jordan coming in as DOF to help LJ out.

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, JBFC II said:

Mowbray has had one promotion in an 16 year managerial career, and that was with West Brom who any manager could have got up, that’s his only achievement and he’s been managing for a fair bit longer than Johnson!

Maybe pardew can’t be blamed for West Brom’s demise (although he has done nothing to stop it) but all that he’s done in his 20 year managerial career is a 2nd placed finish, a play off win and an fa cup final, hardly astonishing either

2 finals if you're talking about Pardew. Bit of a run in Europe with Newcastle.

That said, wouldn't want him here. Far too streaky a manager- boom and bust aplenty.

[tinman85]

1 hour ago, Northern Red said:

Yep. Simply a Premier League version of LJ.

Hated Pardew. He nearly got them Champs League football. Finished 5th

[ChippenhamRed]

McCarthy would be an interesting one. Might he be a more palettable version of Warnock? I.e. an experienced, seen-it-all-before no-nonsense old warhorse with a track record of success at the top end of the division?

Not sure I actually think this is a good idea, just throwing it out there really...

[Lrrr]

@Davefevs Not quoting the post because of how long it is but we were offering £6m fees with him as manager, he was trying to bring in players who just didn't want to come here. 

[Davefevs]

5 minutes ago, hodge said:

@Davefevs Not quoting the post because of how long it is but we were offering £6m fees with him as manager, he was trying to bring in players who just didn't want to come here. 

Yeah, I know....just have a big soft spot / blinkered View / rose-tinted specs with Cotts....loved him 

[Gert Mare]

7 hours ago, BRISTOL86 said:

 

Sorry I meant success at this level. 

Cotterill was great in L1 but he’s not capable of keeping a team in this league. 

I think we finished pretty high the first season at this level following the 1990 promotion season? Or was it the season after? Pretty sure we finished 5th? My memory is fading in my old age 

[BRISTOL86]

39 minutes ago, Cheesleysmate said:

I think we finished pretty high the first season at this level following the 1990 promotion season? Or was it the season after? Pretty sure we finished 5th? My memory is fading in my old age 

Not sure, I was about 4 years old back then! Fair to say we haven't seen an awful lot of success in my lifetime! Our highest two league placings in my active supporting life will both have been delivered under Johnsons. 

[Major Isewater]

10 hours ago, Robbored said:

Lots of managers are capable of playing some attractive football - LJ included. Danny Wilson played some great stuff but sadly didn't win anything. I enjoyed watching his teams more than any other manager. LJ came close to matching him earlier this season with some great football and with a long list of injuries. 

Form has dipped since those injured players have started to return - is that a coIncidence?  

 

Danny Wilson is the same type of manager , nice bloke , very media friendly, good football, won frock all . 

[Mr Popodopolous]

Got Barnsley promoted to Premier League which was quite a notable achievement... However, that was over 20 years ago and probably his high watermark.

[Major Isewater]

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Got Barnsley promoted to Premier League which was quite a notable achievement... However, that was over 20 years ago and probably his high watermark.

Apart from getting unfashionable Barnsley to the Prem what has Danny Wilson ever done in his career ?

[Major Isewater]

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Got Barnsley promoted to Premier League which was quite a notable achievement... However, that was over 20 years ago and probably his high watermark.

Apart from getting unfashionable Barnsley to the Prem what has Danny Wilson ever done in his career ?

iphone going out the window.

[Leveller]

4 hours ago, ChippenhamRed said:

McCarthy would be an interesting one. Might he be a more palettable version of Warnock? I.e. an experienced, seen-it-all-before no-nonsense old warhorse with a track record of success at the top end of the division?

Not sure I actually think this is a good idea, just throwing it out there really...

Ipswich fans have been dying of boredom and wanting him out for years though. Would we accept negativity just to stay in the division?

[1960maaan]

7 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Tin hat on, but I think Cotts would’ve done a decent job with the funding LJ has had.  I know a lot / most of you will disagree.

I think you may be right, talking to a mate the other day who was going through the players we had bid for. If it wasn't for interference etc  things could have been different, I wasn't aware of some , and only heard the rumour about JL trying to renegotiate with one player after a deal was all but done.

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, 1960maaan said:

I think you may be right, talking to a mate the other day who was going through the players we had bid for. If it wasn't for interference etc  things could have been different, I wasn't aware of some , and only heard the rumour about JL trying to renegotiate with one player after a deal was all but done.

I don’t think it was JL, think it was a John Pelling??/

[1960maaan]

Just now, Davefevs said:

I don’t think it was JL, think it was a John Pelling??/

I'll take your word for it, ridiculous whoever it was.

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, 1960maaan said:

I'll take your word for it, ridiculous whoever it was.

He left very shortly after!

[Mr Popodopolous]

5 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

I think you may be right, talking to a mate the other day who was going through the players we had bid for. If it wasn't for interference etc  things could have been different, I wasn't aware of some , and only heard the rumour about JL trying to renegotiate with one player after a deal was all but done.

Looking back though, wouldn't we have fallen foul of FFP had we done those deals which were mooted.

[1960maaan]

1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Looking back though, wouldn't we have fallen foul of FFP had we done those deals which were mooted.

Not sure, isn't done over 18 months? Even then we broke even the year before and if SL had sanctioned the deals he can write off about £6m in losses, then it wouldn't matter if we went up.

[Lrrr]

5 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Looking back though, wouldn't we have fallen foul of FFP had we done those deals which were mooted.

Transfer cost is spread over the length of the contract, just comes down to how long it is. 

[ChippenhamRed]

1 hour ago, Leveller said:

Ipswich fans have been dying of boredom and wanting him out for years though. Would we accept negativity just to stay in the division?

My impression is that McCarthy has done well there on very limited resources. One of my best mates is an Ipswich fan and worries that they might only now find out what a good job he was doing just to keep them afloat.

I’m not sure why you assume the objective would just be staying in the division. With better financial backing here than at Ipswich, there is the potential for McCarthy to do a lot more than that.

Still not saying I actually want him though!

[Mr Popodopolous]

3 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

Not sure, isn't done over 18 months? Even then we broke even the year before and if SL had sanctioned the deals he can write off about £6m in losses, then it wouldn't matter if we went up.

Had we gone up, no problems at all.

Had we stayed down, assuming you mean the deals for Maguire and one of Gayle or Gray.

At this time, we had gates of 16,000 or so. The ground, including the corporate facilities were not complete. In short, it's hard to say.

[Mr Popodopolous]

6 minutes ago, hodge said:

Transfer cost is spread over the length of the contract, just comes down to how long it is. 

Thanks, that would have helped.

I will look up the losses we made that year.

Also given that FFP is over a three year period, it would have covered 2014/15 to last season, and acceptable losses in League One somewhat lower, which the club would have had to factor in. 

[roddy-d]

I wouldn't want to do anything dramatic as people in there rolls Care for the club. I certainly wouldn't mind a wise old head to help LJ if was to except it. But would be nice to have Eddie Howe surly needs a challenge & bigger club than Bournemouth could give him. 

[Leveller]

10 hours ago, ChippenhamRed said:

My impression is that McCarthy has done well there on very limited resources. One of my best mates is an Ipswich fan and worries that they might only now find out what a good job he was doing just to keep them afloat.

I’m not sure why you assume the objective would just be staying in the division. With better financial backing here than at Ipswich, there is the potential for McCarthy to do a lot more than that.

Still not saying I actually want him though!

Perhaps, though he has the look of a man who is keen to retire!