Welcome Jack Hunt - Now officially signed

[exAtyeoMax]

51 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

He predicts a summer concert 

" “After seeing the stadium, everything seems to be set up for one direction. "

Oh gawd…

[Phileas Fogg]

3 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

To save those that don’t want to read the thread (Some interesting stuff when you look back now about all sorts of things , plans and processes)

Here is one part which seems highly relevant but there are a number of other quotes and statements from MA and LJ on the. Recruitment process

~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ccc

 

MA said he's not involved in talent ID / recruitment , that there was a team of people involved , with the final decision Lees , and the finances sat with him (MA) through to the board and SL and that contract negotiations were also his (MAs) responsibility and that ultimately they work as a team......

 LJ then asked for some slides to be shown , from software called StatsBomb that they use & explained they can input their requirements for a particular position and all the aorta stats get analysed and said he would explain how they identified and recruited Nicholas Eliasson 

 LJ explained that he was sat in bed in his lap top , looking for a Knockaert type player who he had wide right in his chosen Championship eleven

 The software they use will look at Knockhart and throw up similar players (Totally football manager like) in a list with name, age, club, etc

(through the process Lee was pointing out the list that resulted and the comparative data / stats on StatsBomb and explaining what they actually mean e.g. A 'successful' dribble means he's gone past an opponent and 'delivered a chance'

Using Knockaert attributes up came (amongst a list of players in the last five years in any league in the world from their top two divisions, incl players at top European Clubs and way out our league - Robben , Pedro , Isco !!!! ) was Eliasson ( And interestingly Jamie Patterson)

Lee explains he then uses WyScout Software to call up 7-10 mins or so clips of Eliasson 

Liked what he saw, got the analysts to look at him - They go through a minimum of 15 games analysing and clipping every touch and off ball movement and they produced a Pack and said they liked the player

said for every one they like / try and sign there's probably 90 that they’ve considered and dismissed for various reasons

They then give this to Lee who consulted JM / DH etc

Lee , JM and DH all liked the look of him and LJ contacts Mervin Day to get 'eyes on'

All agree with LJ , LJ gets Eliasson watched in person five or six times , incl by himself 

Initial queries made about availability / price / would player be interested and the all the reports and opinions and the final decision, (except finances) comes back to Lee

LJ explained NE is a risk as all signings but that due diligence incl social media , does he go out , does he have a girlfriend etc are all covered

Said that they will have four or five options in each position and a final decision is made on ability , availability etc and ultimately they felt the 'risk' was worth taking 'because of his outstanding attributes' and recognises he has weaknesses in his game as well which they need to work on and develop

said that if NE had no defects in his game we wouldn't have him / get him

said that he's has cost us two goals by losing his runner but has been delighted with him in training with his quick feet, quick , can finish and goes past Joe Bryan 'which is hard to do' and is a dilemma right at this stage (Attributes v weaknesses) can he 'risk' him in Championship as the tempo of Swedish  League is vastly different to Championship

Described Eliasson as a 'Fantastic Kid ' and a 'coaches dream' as he absorbs information 'like a sponge'

I remember that post, very interesting.

From what you've written there - that sounds like a very sensible way to go about recruitment if it's done like that. The right combination of stats and also human gut instinct. 

If the theory about Ashton's involvement is true, I'd be very interested to know which players are 'his'.

As an aside - reminds me that we shouldn't write off Eliasson. I can barely remember LJ being so positive about a player before or since. Sounds like LJ really believes he has something. Hope he gets more opportunities this season or gets a really good loan.

[cityboy]

Rated Hunt since his days at Huddersfield. Reckon this is a solid signing. Good to have competition at the RB slot again.

 

GK next please.

[Davefevs]

20 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Good post Nogs

As for the highlighted bit

Me too

I have the impression we  got carried away with software and analysts and not enough

watching a player eyes on and using your eyes brain and gut instinct

No doubt analysts have a place but if I was LJ I’d be signing players because I’ve watched them in the process and I like what they offer , with stats that support or otherwise

Bob, that is essentially what I was saying....and you’ll know as well as anyone you’ve got to see a player with your own eyes to form an opinion.  Starting with the database is great for the players in your blind spot (Europe, non-League etc who you just wont have even heard of in most cases).  But for players you’ve seen you avoid missing them by a statistically subjective database filtering them out too early.

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, cityboy said:

Rated Hunt since his days at Huddersfield. Reckon this is a solid signing. Good to have competition at the RB slot again.

 

GK next please.

Competitive too, which is what we want.

Too early to say “the next Bradley Orr”, but certainly of that mould but pacier

[BRISTOL86]

5 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I remember that post, very interesting.

From what you've written there - that sounds like a very sensible way to go about recruitment if it's done like that. The right combination of stats and also human gut instinct. 

If the theory about Ashton's involvement is true, I'd be very interested to know which players are 'his'.

As an aside - reminds me that we shouldn't write off Eliasson. I can barely remember LJ being so positive about a player before or since. Sounds like LJ really believes he has something. Hope he gets more opportunities this season or gets a really good loan.

It amazes me how quickly we can write off players, even more so in light of the incredible transformation of Bobby Reid. 

Theres definitely a good player in Eliasson. A season on loan in England would do him wonders I expect. The trouble is we are now seeing ourselves as a club which should be challenging for top six - and it’s a hard balancing act to get players the game time they need to develop whilst trying to keep fans onside. 

[Jerseybean]

15 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

Or the robin ...

 

 

 

 

 

Instead of, or on top of the owl, perhaps Major.

[YorkshireSection]

1 hour ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

So I’ve got this clear ......

 

The good signings are Lees

The failures and disasters are Ashton’s....

 

Is that it 

Thank f uckk there's someone else who sees that.

Does anyone genuinely think that SL would embody that much financial clout to someone other than LJ. Ashton sells the club and does all the stuff the football people don't do, I guess it's more interesting for those who have an agenda to the contrary, conspiracists and those with too much time on their hands.

[Alessandro]

20 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I remember that post, very interesting.

From what you've written there - that sounds like a very sensible way to go about recruitment if it's done like that. The right combination of stats and also human gut instinct. 

If the theory about Ashton's involvement is true, I'd be very interested to know which players are 'his'.

As an aside - reminds me that we shouldn't write off Eliasson. I can barely remember LJ being so positive about a player before or since. Sounds like LJ really believes he has something. Hope he gets more opportunities this season or gets a really good loan.

I don't think it's as black and white as LJ's signings vs. MA's signings, I haven't read anyone say that, so not sure why it needed to be escalated to that. 

MA may, or may not specifically identify targets, but the transfer policy, is his, right? So LJ has to identify players that fit this policy, note the comment about financial decisions being taken by the club - i.e READ LJ ultimately has to find certain players to fit a financial mould he is set.

Also, note the "team" of recruiters. I would imagine these scouts and analysts were recruited and employed by MA, not LJ?

Perhaps the interesting whispers @Harry heard, could well have been about taking away control and responsibility to some members of this recruitment team and also about a tweak in the parameters in which LJ has to work.

[YorkshireSection]

37 minutes ago, City Ben said:

Stainless steel indeed, and with the ceramic bezel - they really are rare. 

I prefer vintage Rolex myself, got a nice stainless steel oyster perpetua dateadjust 1981.

A couple of vintage omega, including a rose gold on leather and a longines.

Rolex are not great time keepers, I've a Hubolt for that.

My Mrs unfortunately wears an apple watch instead of the Rolex her parents bought her, shameful! 

I'm not fixh I bought most of these for next to nowt.

[Merrick's Marvels]

20 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

It amazes me how quickly we can write off players, even more so in light of the incredible transformation of Bobby Reid. 

Theres definitely a good player in Eliasson. A season on loan in England would do him wonders I expect. The trouble is we are now seeing ourselves as a club which should be challenging for top six - and it’s a hard balancing act to get players the game time they need to develop whilst trying to keep fans onside. 

I think a loan would do Eliasson wonders too - but at what level?

Another Champ club unlikely to give him more game time than us and would we want to loan to a rival anyway? Is he too good for L1? Would he be prepared to drop down? Would be great to see him tearing up L1 by end of next season. Just needs time and opportunities to find his feet in English football.

Definitely worth persevering with - has pace, a great cross and can beat a man - something a bit different from our other players who are picked to play out wide. He's a left footed Adelukan but the Scunny lad has the edge on him for now with approx 100 L1 games already under his belt.

[BRISTOL86]

Just now, Merrick's Marvels said:

I think a loan would do Eliasson wonders too - but at what level?

Another Champ club unlikely to give him more game time than us and would we want to loan to a rival anyway? Is he too good for L1? Would he be prepared to drop down? Would be great to see him tearing up L1 by end of next season. Just needs time and opportunities to find his feet in English football.

Definitely worth persevering with - has pace, a great cross and can beat a man - something a bit different from our other players who are picked to play out wide. He's a left footed Adelukan but the Scunny lad has the edge on him for now with approx 100 L1 games already under his belt.

IMO a full season of games at L1 is much better than half an hour every 3 weeks here if he’s deemed not yet ready for regular rotation. Certainly a drop to L1 didn’t do Vyner any harm and Bryan and Reid also came back from loans better for it. 

Perhaps a lower Champ club may want to take a punt. 

Definitley worth persevering with as you say. A good player in there IMO. 

[Olé]

1 hour ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

Well, we've got an unprecedented pot of cash from outgoings and several first team positions that require immediate filling by Championship ready players. That may not be the whole story but to me would go a long way to explaining the evident change in policy.

I think the reasons for the change in policy are more obvious. The project is on hold.

This is a make or break season for LJ - we heard it in SL's interview after the last day.

I thought it was just lip service but the way the summer is going I think LJ is worried.

He's not about to trust the season to "ones for the future" as it may not be his future!

I don't know all these players but I applaud City for finally taking a lower risk approach.

[Major Isewater]

11 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

IMO a full season of games at L1 is much better than half an hour every 3 weeks here if he’s deemed not yet ready for regular rotation. Certainly a drop to L1 didn’t do Vyner any harm and Bryan and Reid also came back from loans better for it. 

Perhaps a lower Champ club may want to take a punt. 

Definitley worth persevering with as you say. A good player in there IMO. 

Blimey are you not getting a little bit hoighty bloody toighty with this " Lower Champ " club statement.

Do you really see us as a higher Champ club ? 

I agree about the loan though .

[supercidered]

42 minutes ago, YorkshireSection said:

I prefer vintage Rolex myself, got a nice stainless steel oyster perpetua dateadjust 1981.

A couple of vintage omega, including a rose gold on leather and a longines.

Rolex are not great time keepers, I've a Hubolt for that.

My Mrs unfortunately wears an apple watch instead of the Rolex her parents bought her, shameful! 

I'm not fixh I bought most of these for next to nowt.

Aark at eee!

You didn't buy them in Marbella off a gezzer on the beach did you?

[YorkshireSection]

2 minutes ago, supercidered said:

Aark at eee!

You didn't buy them in Marbella off a gezzer on the beach did you?

Used to deal them 

[Nogbad the Bad]

2 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

So I’ve got this clear ......

 

The good signings are Lees

The failures and disasters are Ashton’s....

 

Is that it 

There was definitely momentum building earlier in the thread that MA was to blame for the bad signings by getting over involved in areas out of his expertise and therefore LJ could be exonerated of any criticism for poor signings. No wonder LJ didn't play so and so, blamed Magnússon after PNE etc. ( inexcusable whatever the motive imo.)

That narrative doesn't sit well with me because we know full well LJ has said he is involved right throughout the process.

Let's be pleased if the strategy and process have been tweaked so the analysts, and perhaps MA, get fully involved at a later stage, and that for whatever reason - including funds available imo - the current crop of signings look far more targeted and likely to succeed quickly than previously.

However let's not rewrite history to make MA the fall guy or give LJ a free pass. Whatever we think of MA he must have done some pretty arduous groundwork to get these signings over the line at what appear to be reasonable prices and it is LJ who must stand or fall on the overall quality of incoming signings,  how they progress and fit into the squad (and hopefully eventually bed into the team) because he maintains he has always had the final say, and from their first day at the club their progression - or lack of it - is under his tutelage and control

FWIW, looking from the outside I'd say both LJ and MA seem to be fulfilling their roles in exemplary fashion this Summer.

 

[Phileas Fogg]

52 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

I don't think it's as black and white as LJ's signings vs. MA's signings, I haven't read anyone say that, so not sure why it needed to be escalated to that. 

MA may, or may not specifically identify targets, but the transfer policy, is his, right? So LJ has to identify players that fit this policy, note the comment about financial decisions being taken by the club - i.e READ LJ ultimately has to find certain players to fit a financial mould he is set.

Also, note the "team" of recruiters. I would imagine these scouts and analysts were recruited and employed by MA, not LJ?

Perhaps the interesting whispers @Harry heard, could well have been about taking away control and responsibility to some members of this recruitment team and also about a tweak in the parameters in which LJ has to work.

I think you took that point far too literally - note he ‘his’ in inverted commas. It’s obviously more nuanced than that.

[BRISTOL86]

23 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

Blimey are you not getting a little bit hoighty bloody toighty with this " Lower Champ " club statement.

Do you really see us as a higher Champ club ? 

I agree about the loan though .

Budget wise there are a handful of clubs below us that would be glad of players not quite at the level we see ourselves at. The likes of Rotherham - as we’ve already seen with Vyner - I’m sure would be keen if he were made available  

But you touch on a point I alluded to - we have the expectations of a top six club but the majority of the league has a bigger wage budget than us. It’s a mismatch than, unless we remarkably over perform relative to our wage spend ala the first half of 17/18, is likely to end in tears

[Alessandro]

14 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I think you took that point far too literally - note he ‘his’ in inverted commas. It’s obviously more nuanced than that.

I realised when I posted that reply, most of the content was a more general comment on the flow of thread and other posts and not directed specifically at you...apologies if it came across that way - my post didn't need to be in reply to you at all in hindsight.

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

Probably very unfair of me, but when I consider this transfer why do I keep thinking about Gerard Lavin...

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

 

However let's not rewrite history to make MA the fall guy or give LJ a free pass. Whatever we think of MA he must have done some pretty arduous groundwork to get these signings over the line at what appear to be reasonable prices and it is LJ who must stand or fall on the overall quality of incoming signings,  how they progress and fit into the squad (and hopefully eventually bed into the team) because he maintains he has always had the final say, and from their first day at the club their progression - or lack of it - is under his tutelage and control.

 

Think that’s a very good / Fair point.

It’s fine to have on paper what looks like a much better window because LJ has more “control”.  Proof of proverbial pudding will be how and how often he plays them.

[Ian M]

1 hour ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

There was definitely momentum building earlier in the thread that MA was to blame for the bad signings by getting over involved in areas out of his expertise and therefore LJ could be exonerated of any criticism for poor signings. No wonder LJ didn't play so and so, blamed Magnússon after PNE etc. ( inexcusable whatever the motive imo.)

That narrative doesn't sit well with me because we know full well LJ has said he is involved right throughout the process.

Let's be pleased if the strategy and process have been tweaked so the analysts, and perhaps MA, get fully involved at a later stage, and that for whatever reason - including funds available imo - the current crop of signings look far more targeted and likely to succeed quickly than previously.

However let's not rewrite history to make MA the fall guy or give LJ a free pass. Whatever we think of MA he must have done some pretty arduous groundwork to get these signings over the line at what appear to be reasonable prices and it is LJ who must stand or fall on the overall quality of incoming signings,  how they progress and fit into the squad (and hopefully eventually bed into the team) because he maintains he has always had the final say, and from their first day at the club their progression - or lack of it - is under his tutelage and control

FWIW, looking from the outside I'd say both LJ and MA seem to be fulfilling their roles in exemplary fashion this Summer.

 

I think the truth is in line with @Olé's post above. Previously, whilst LJ was heavily involved with the recruitment process, he was being heavily steered by Ashton whose responsibility will have been to ensure the 5 pillars were being followed and that influenced the type of player we were targeting. Following our poor 2nd half of last season and SL's interview I think LJ has asked to be allowed to go for more "now" targets, hence the comments of him taking more control. Its not so much that someone else was selecting who he could sign but the type of profile player he could target and I think that has now changed. 

[Merrick's Marvels]

45 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Probably very unfair of me, but when I consider this transfer why do I keep thinking about Gerard Lavin...

Ouch. Killed the mood right there.

[tts_city]

27 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Ouch. Killed the mood right there.

Im with you there, was it on his debut he smashed the ball into one of our own fans faces in frustration ? 

[Merrick's Marvels]

1 hour ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

There was definitely momentum building earlier in the thread that MA was to blame for the bad signings by getting over involved in areas out of his expertise and therefore LJ could be exonerated of any criticism for poor signings. No wonder LJ didn't play so and so, blamed Magnússon after PNE etc. ( inexcusable whatever the motive imo.)

That narrative doesn't sit well with me because we know full well LJ has said he is involved right throughout the process.

Let's be pleased if the strategy and process have been tweaked so the analysts, and perhaps MA, get fully involved at a later stage, and that for whatever reason - including funds available imo - the current crop of signings look far more targeted and likely to succeed quickly than previously.

However let's not rewrite history to make MA the fall guy or give LJ a free pass. Whatever we think of MA he must have done some pretty arduous groundwork to get these signings over the line at what appear to be reasonable prices and it is LJ who must stand or fall on the overall quality of incoming signings,  how they progress and fit into the squad (and hopefully eventually bed into the team) because he maintains he has always had the final say, and from their first day at the club their progression - or lack of it - is under his tutelage and control

FWIW, looking from the outside I'd say both LJ and MA seem to be fulfilling their roles in exemplary fashion this Summer.

 

That was nothing more than a tentative suggestion / speculation from me, Nogs - put out there for discussion and quickly corrected by Swanker (with a worryingly hormonal response it has to be said - hope you're feeling better today )    

Wasn't trying to apportion blame or pick sides - my view of LJ and MA is perfectly even-handed because I don't particularly like either of them!

[Ian M]

10 minutes ago, tts_city said:

Im with you there, was it on his debut he smashed the ball into one of our own fans faces in frustration ? 

It was away at Reading and he smashed it into their supporters breaking one of their arms in the process. 

[tts_city]

2 minutes ago, Ian M said:

It was away at Reading and he smashed it into their supporters breaking one of their arms in the process. 

Ah yep that was it, proper ****.

[INCRED]

4 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Good post Nogs

As for the highlighted bit

Me too

I have the impression we  got carried away with software and analysts and not enough

watching a player eyes on and using your eyes brain and gut instinct

No doubt analysts have a place but if I was LJ I’d be signing players because I’ve watched them in the process and I like what they offer , with stats that support or otherwise

I agree, only so much stats will give you. It can’t tell you much around positional awareness, pace of passing, attitude, vision

These things need to be observed in a live environment on numerous occasions before deciding if the player is a good fit with our style of play and formation

[Nogbad the Bad]

1 hour ago, Ian M said:

I think the truth is in line with @Olé's post above. Previously, whilst LJ was heavily involved with the recruitment process, he was being heavily steered by Ashton whose responsibility will have been to ensure the 5 pillars were being followed and that influenced the type of player we were targeting. Following our poor 2nd half of last season and SL's interview I think LJ has asked to be allowed to go for more "now" targets, hence the comments of him taking more control. Its not so much that someone else was selecting who he could sign but the type of profile player he could target and I think that has now changed. 

I agree with @Olé's post in so far as the necessity to buy a few Championship ready players inevitably has the knock on effect of putting the process on hold, to an extent, for now.

LJ knows he is expected to produce a very competitive team very quickly, even after losing 3 or 4 mainstays, and the cash, and encouragement from above, is there to help him do so.

With the scale and importance of the outgoings the transfer targets this window were always going to be more 'for now' anyway imo, and under the circumstances this change in transfer policy would likely have received the blessings of all concerned.