Gone and not replaced

[Sturny]

Just now, Phileas Fogg said:

Not really, you can get an initial impression but it won’t tell the whole story. Not enough to make a good comparison anyway.

RE: Diony I actually agree with that, hard to tell what he’s really capable of in the time he played. Lots of other context to consider with that deal too. Could’ve been a case of right player but wrong time - ideally we needed someone who could make an impact straight away.

I disagree. To believe you can't have an opinion on player before they've stepped foot on the pitch as a city player is pretty bias imo (if that's what you're saying). Bristol City don't have a special touch and watching a player previously and seeing past achievements/stats which are so easily obtainable these days can give you an opinion on the ability that player might have. 

 

I'm glad you agree with the Diony part because people brushing aside opinions on some of these new players but they were quick to say how shite Diony was. Probably because of the reasons you gave. 

[Sturny]

2 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Ohhhhhhhhhh

The hypocricy

 

 

Priceless

I've got Robbored on ignore but i'm glad you quoted this as it made me chuckle 

[Johnny Musicworks]

Kalas, Kelly/DaSilva and Weimann seem more than adequate replacements. Early days but beginning to look like some good business done.

[Phileas Fogg]

Just now, Sturny said:

I disagree. To believe you can't have an opinion on player before they've stepped foot on the pitch as a city player is pretty bias imo (if that's what you're saying). Bristol City don't have a special touch and watching a player previously and seeing past achievements/stats which are so easily obtainable these days can give you an opinion on the ability that player might have. 

Of course anyone can have an opinion, doesn’t mean it’s accurate or worth taking seriously though. I can’t really take someone’s opinion seriously on a player until they’ve properly watched them over an extended period.

If they have an opinion based on watching them live once or twice, TV games or even FIFA then ok - but it’s not particularly valid until they’ve *actually* watched them.

Stats are only relevant and interesting if the context is accounted for - ie Weimann’s scoring stats at Derby when he wasn’t playing as a real forward.

Just now, Sturny said:

 

I'm glad you agree with the Diony part because people brushing aside opinions on some of these new players but they were quick to say how shite Diony was. Probably because of the reasons you gave. 

Yes, shame really. My ‘initial impression’ of him (based on QPR home - his best performance) was a good one. Felt he had something. Sadly, went downhill from there!

[E.G.Red]

On 22 August 2018 at 15:04, Mr Popodopolous said:

Not so sure about Webster- not for a couple of years, age and experience.

Weimann though, brilliant start- let's hope he keeps it up though with Reid we lost 7 assists too, however Weimann is definitely filling the void thusfar. Kelly in due course could be great.

However those 2 are for a while into the future- currently we're weaker I'd say but there are also encouraging signs.

And how many were sure about Bobby being moved up front last season?  Give the guys a chance ,  I suspect  and hope we may be pleasantly surprised come the end of the season.  Unless you are Wolves with money to burn on players who can hit the ground running ,  Slow and steady wins the race(look at Cardiff )

[Sturny]

5 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Of course anyone can have an opinion, doesn’t mean it’s accurate or worth taking seriously though. I can’t really take someone’s opinion seriously on a player until they’ve properly watched them over an extended period.

If they have an opinion based on watching them live once or twice, TV games or even FIFA then ok - but it’s not particularly valid until they’ve *actually* watched them.

Stats are only relevant and interesting if the context is accounted for - ie Weimann’s scoring stats at Derby when he wasn’t playing as a real forward.

Yes, shame really. My ‘initial impression’ of him (based on QPR home - his best performance) was a good one. Felt he had something. Sadly, went downhill from there!

Kinda agree with mostly what you said but using Weimann (bobby too) is a special case where previous stats don't reflect their true/current ability. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 minute ago, E.G.Red said:

And how many were sure about Bobby being moved up front last season?  Give the guys a chance ,  I suspect  and hope we may be pleasantly surprised come the end of the season.  Unless you are Wolves with money to burn on players who can hit the ground running ,  Slow and steady wins the race(look at Cardiff )

I go with what you're saying tbh, but Cardiff started with 5 wins in 5 or something stupid last season. Interesting choice of Wolves money to burn given their business model is more complex- Neves aside.

I digress though, but Cardiff actually took up a fairly relentless pace- 90 points for 2nd place is pretty high but increasingly unsurprising. 

On the new players though, not saying they are poor at all- simply suggesting that the experience and continuity factor means that currently- at this moment in time- Flint and Bryan are better. It's impossible to form any other judgement so far IMO.

 

[JamesBCFC]

1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I go with what you're saying tbh, but Cardiff started with 5 wins in 5 or something stupid last season. Interesting choice of Wolves money to burn given their business model is more complex- Neves aside.

I digress though, but Cardiff actually took up a fairly relentless pace- 90 points for 2nd place is pretty high but increasingly unsurprising. 

On the new players though, not saying they are poor at all- simply suggesting that the experience and continuity factor means that currently- at this moment in time- Flint and Bryan are better. It's impossible to form any other judgement so far IMO.

 

Fulham we the slow and steady starters weren't they?

Ended the season with something like 23 games unbeaten though.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Just now, JamesBCFC said:

Fulham we the slow and steady starters weren't they?

Ended the season with something like 23 games unbeaten though.

Very good shout that!

Yeah, went on their record unbeaten run- think they got a crazy 56 points from 2nd half of season last year...they were nowhere when we were 2nd on Boxing Day. Nowhere.

[Sturny]

3 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

Fulham we the slow and steady starters weren't they?

Ended the season with something like 23 games unbeaten though.

They were heavily under performing with the players they had at the start tho 

[E.G.Red]

2 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

Fulham we the slow and steady starters weren't they?

Ended the season with something like 23 games unbeaten though.

Yes I meant Fulham. Cardiff in my mind when writing about Bobby

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 minutes ago, Sturny said:

They were heavily under performing with the players they had at the start tho 

They had a pretty slow start the year before too- seems to be a trait.

[Sturny]

Just now, Mr Popodopolous said:

They had a pretty slow start the year before too.

Could we argue we're doing the same? I don't see it. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

Just now, Sturny said:

Could we argue we're doing the same? I don't see it. 

I don't think we'll storm the League like Fulham, but I think we could take a while to click and start reasonably slowly.

Overall mid-table- still see this as a building year what with all the changes. Next year, if we continue to upgrade areas and tweak- we could be in a better place to push for playoffs.

[BCFC Rich]

2 hours ago, Robbored said:

How can you claim that they’re not improvements when City have played just four games? 

Kelly can and has filled the LB vacancy. He can also play at CB. LJ has brought in Dasilva on a season longer loan, also to cover at LB.

Wiemann has four in four......

Webster is a better footballer than Flint ever was. He can bring the ball out, something big Aden couldnt do with his turning circle of a double decker bus......

You don't half talk some crap about Flint. One of the best regarded CB's in the division, consistent determined, put his body on the line and frankly little doubt a better overall player than Webster defensively. Webster is better at bringing the ball out but you are blinkered to the improvements flint made here and the fact that he often brought the ball out at a pace last season.  I'd rather have Flint but in terms of the system the sale made sense and Webster is the right replacement because although he's not as good as Flint is now he is better than Flint was when Flint arrived. He is also about the same age Flint was when he arrived. So to my mind, that's the system working - keep Webster a few years develope him sell him and buy a 23/24 year who is better than Webster was - rinse and repeat.

[Mr Popodopolous]

5 minutes ago, BCFC Richard said:

You don't half talk some crap about Flint. One of the best regarded CB's in the division, consistent determined, put his body on the line and frankly little doubt a better overall player than Webster defensively. Webster is better at bringing the ball out but you are blinkered to the improvements flint made here and the fact that he often brought the ball out at a pace last season.  I'd rather have Flint but in terms of the system the sale made sense and Webster is the right replacement because although he's not as good as Flint is now he is better than Flint was when Flint arrived. He is also about the same age Flint was when he arrived. So to my mind, that's the system working - keep Webster a few years develope him sell him and buy a 23/24 year who is better than Webster was - rinse and repeat.

Or when our financial position is improved, we become a bit more discerning and keep Webster in a few years maybe?

Depends on many variables of course, but provided there is no buyout clause, if he develops as we hope I'd rather like to (finances permitting) keep him.

[Robbored]

20 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Ohhhhhhhhhh

The hypocricy

 

Hypocrisy?  In what context?

With your greater football insight, you sneer at me when I point out that Flint is a limited footballer and I’ve explained why I say that. 

His strengths, height and heading ability are ideally suited to any Pulis team. As we saw at AG recently they’re all pretty huge guys and Pulis loves that kind of player, but as with most big guys they’re susceptible to anyone with quick feet running at them, just as Flint is.

Anyway - as Spudski nor Cowshed have yet to rely, will you explain the tactical reasons for telling the goalkeeper to play the ball out wide as we saw in the World Cup and FF has been criticised for getting it wrong. Maenpaa was doing the same tactic at Loftus Rd on Tuesday.

[Robbored]

10 minutes ago, BCFC Richard said:

You don't half talk some crap about Flint. One of the best regarded CB's in the division, consistent determined, put his body on the line and frankly little doubt a better overall player than Webster defensively. Webster is better at bringing the ball out but you are blinkered to the improvements flint made here and the fact that he often brought the ball out at a pace last season.  I'd rather have Flint but in terms of the system the sale made sense and Webster is the right replacement because although he's not as good as Flint is now he is better than Flint was when Flint arrived. He is also about the same age Flint was when he arrived. So to my mind, that's the system working - keep Webster a few years develope him sell him and buy a 23/24 year who is better than Webster was - rinse and repeat.

Crikey! That’s a bit long winded...........

[chinapig]

59 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

@Super

"Burger"  

Honestly don't know what meaning Unicorn, Chicken, Burger or Flames emojis are meant to convey.

Perhaps Tom could provide a glossary for those of us who are floundering?

Come to think of it, is there a flounder emoji?

[Cue the usual fish puns]

[RobintheRed Red]

2 hours ago, Peter O Hanraha-hanrahan said:

Marlon was an O’Driscoll signing.

Ok fair play

[RobintheRed Red]

4 hours ago, Robbored said:

How can you claim that they’re not improvements when City have played just four games? 

Kelly can and has filled the LB vacancy. He can also play at CB. LJ has brought in Dasilva on a season longer loan, also to cover at LB.

Wiemann has four in four......

Webster is a better footballer than Flint ever was. He can bring the ball out, something big Aden couldnt do with his turning circle of a double decker bus......

But is not yet as dominant at the back and won't score the goals Aden did

[Robbored]

6 minutes ago, RobintheRed Red said:

But is not yet as dominant at the back and won't score the goals Aiden did

LJ and his coaches did a good job in improving Flints game and he became a  decent CB by taking LJs advice to ‘keep it simple’. He stopped hoofing up the pitch and just played a simple pass to a more skilled team mate. 

No doubt his goals will be missed tho.

From what I’ve seen of Webster so far he’s also a decent CB. Good header of the ball but far more skilled in possession than Flint was. We’ll see him bringing the ball out of defence more and hopefully getting the odd goal or two.

[RobintheRed Red]

3 minutes ago, Robbored said:

LJ and his coaches did a good job in improving Flints game and he became a  decent CB by taking LJs advice to ‘keep it simple’. He stopped hoofing up the pitch and just played a simple pass to a more skilled team mate. 

No doubt his goals will be missed tho.

From what I’ve seen of Webster so far he’s also a decent CB. Good header of the ball but far more skilled in possession than Flint was. We’ll see him bringing the ball out of defence more and hopefully getting the odd goal or two.

Apart from the Q.p.r. game we have looked very open at the back conceding umpteen corners I like Webster but he's not so dominating as flint hopefully this  may change with the addition of kalas he was quality for us and a good servant . Flint i mean

[Robbored]

2 minutes ago, RobintheRed Red said:

Apart from the Q.p.r. game we have looked very open at the back conceding umpteen corners I like Webster but he's not so dominating as flint hopefully this  may change with the addition of kalas he was quality for us and a good servant . Flint i mean

We’re four games in...............we have several new players and another signed today and it’ll take several more matches for them to become familiar with each other’s games. 

Patience is required....

[JamesBCFC]

1 minute ago, Robbored said:

We’re four games in...............we have several new players and another signed today and it’ll take several more matches for them to become familiar with each other’s games. 

Patience is required....

Who are you, and what have you done with Robbored?

[Davefevs]

4 hours ago, INCRED said:

How can you state that after 4 games?

Maybe make a more considered appraisal after 20 games and then you will have some stats to back it up.

Weimann 4 in 4 isn’t a bad start and personally think Webster is a far better player than Flint was at 24 and a much better footballer

Kelly - I think the rave reviews from most on this forum speaks volumes as to whether he is a capable replacement for JB

That’s an interesting comparison - I think we all agree that Flint has improved massively since he first came here.  What most of us want from Webster is the equivalent of Flint now at 29, with development in him too.  The reality is he’s probably not a 29 year Flint yet, but he has different attributes (ball player) that LJ hopes compensates a bit for the lack of ball winning, but suits the overall way we play.  Didn’t like his performance Saturday, liked it Tuesday.

4 hours ago, Sturny said:

I've got Robbored on ignore but i'm glad you quoted this as it made me chuckle 

How do you ignore someone....I can’t see the button....not you or Robbored out of interest.

[Sturny]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

That’s an interesting comparison - I think we all agree that Flint has improved massively since he first came here.  What most of us want from Webster is the equivalent of Flint now at 29, with development in him too.  The reality is he’s probably not a 29 year Flint yet, but he has different attributes (ball player) that LJ hopes compensates a bit for the lack of ball winning, but suits the overall way we play.  Didn’t like his performance Saturday, liked it Tuesday.

How do you ignore someone....I can’t see the button....not you or Robbored out of interest.

(On mobile)

top right > account > ignored users > add new user to ignore list 

 

[INCRED]

21 hours ago, Sturny said:

It's my opinion/speculation. If you think Webster/DaSilva will achieve what Bryan/Flint have go ahead that's your opinion and that would be equal speculation of me saying they won't.  

And what have Bryan & Flint achieved, a L1 winners medal and a tinpot cup winners medal - well let’s hope they don’t suffer the indignity of having to play at that level then!

[Sturny]

25 minutes ago, INCRED said:

And what have Bryan & Flint achieved, a L1 winners medal and a tinpot cup winners medal - well let’s hope they don’t suffer the indignity of having to play at that level then!

Yeh mate Flint and Bryan are w@nk we've clearly done Fulham/Middlesbrough one. Bet they're well pissed they bought those two instead of DaSilva/Webster. 

I'm sure they're gutted 

 

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

19 hours ago, Robbored said:

LJ and his coaches did a good job in improving Flints game and he became a  decent CB by taking LJs advice to ‘keep it simple’. He stopped hoofing up the pitch and just played a simple pass to a more skilled team mate. 

No doubt his goals will be missed tho.

From what I’ve seen of Webster so far he’s also a decent CB. Good header of the ball but far more skilled in possession than Flint was. We’ll see him bringing the ball out of defence more and hopefully getting the odd goal or two.

If you take away the goals from Flint's game then it completely changes his benefit to any team. But he does score crucial goals which more than makes up for the rest of his deficiencies.

Last season on OTIB- there were a number of posters suggesting that Flint should be 'rested' i.e. dropped- and also the season before. How quickly we forget.

My memories of Flint will always be about the goals but I also just can't forget the huge number of times he'd make a crucial tackle only to give the ball straight back to the opposition and they'd be straight back at us. I think the difference with Baker ( when fit) and  Kelly along with Dasilva and Kalas ( based on highlights and at games respectively) is they are more likely to keep possession when they win the ball as opposed to hoof it back to the opposition. IMO.