"Just part of the matchday experience": The psychological toll of abuse from the stands in football

[AppyDAZE]

26 minutes ago, phantom said:

Two examples of why I find it hard to feel sorry for these guys.... 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/article-6130059/amp/Diafra-Sakho-leaving-200-000-Lamborghini-West-Ham-sums-up.html

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/metro.co.uk/2011/01/19/jermaine-pennant-forgot-he-owned-porsche-629935/amp/

 

I can hear it now...   

Ah yes but these are the few and far between bad apples. Most footballers are decent guys

EXACTLY, like most fans are.

For me, non-story.

I like Jermaine, but I totally get where Phantom is coming from.

[LondonBristolian]

41 minutes ago, phantom said:

Two examples of why I find it hard to feel sorry for these guys.... 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/article-6130059/amp/Diafra-Sakho-leaving-200-000-Lamborghini-West-Ham-sums-up.html

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/metro.co.uk/2011/01/19/jermaine-pennant-forgot-he-owned-porsche-629935/amp/

 

Sure. I don't feel sorry for footballers but I'm not entirely sure why either of those stories implies footballers would not be affected by abuse being screamed at them. 

1 hour ago, Sello said:

Put simply, why does a person have the right to abuse another human being?

In my view, no one has this right and I am left a little depressed and somewhat confused by the attempts to justify this.

According to many above, it is permissable if the abuser's assessment of the abused person's resilience is that he will be able to "take it." How is that assessment made?

Some are more careless than this and assume all footballers should be able to take it as they earn more than the rest of us.

I remember similar justification being offered in defence of racism. I sometimes still hear it. 

If this is considered too sensitive a response to be relevant to the world of football, perhaps we should be concerned if only for the more selfish and practical reason that some young talent may be falling by the wayside as a result of this behaviour. 

 

What an excellent post. 

[LondonBristolian]

1 hour ago, BTRFTG said:

In which case I demand they listen to Patrik Fitzgerald's 'Don't Tell Me Because I'm Young' on an endless loop before every fixture. The idiot Savage (and yes I mean utter idiot) uses the bon mot that one has to have played the game to appreciate it's nuances - bull. I'd suggest any player arrogant enough to think themselves exempt from criticism from anyone other than a peer deserves everything they get.

I don't think players are arrogant to think they are except from criticism from anyone other than peers. But I do think it reasonable to want to understand where criticism is coming from. You don't necessarily need a lot of experience to give constructive criticism but you do need a degree of insight. Some fans will have an excellent insight to the game and some will not. But, if a complete stranger is shouting abuse at you, I struggle to see a valid test one can use to see if that person has enough insight for that criticism to be valid. The fact that anyone can give valid criticism does not mean that everyone does. 

[22A]

11 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

In short , players are human and don't like abuse so only do it to the opposition to help our results.

 

But there are some Members of this forum who don't like certain City players (and management team).

[Major Isewater]

5 hours ago, gl1 said:

If I was being paid the thousands of pounds per week they were on I’d take as much flack from the stands as they could throw

Flack throwing is highly dangerous and could result in a nasty accident so best avoided.

 

[AppyDAZE]

31 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

Flack throwing is highly dangerous and could result in a nasty accident so best avoided.

 

Verbal flack, Major. Not Roberta

[EmissionImpossible]

8 hours ago, phantom said:

Poor little snowflakes, they are up there with the best earners and most privelaged sportsmen in the world

Try standing on the frontline of a battlefield being shot at !

Why ar people obsessed with using the word ‘snowflakes’

[EmissionImpossible]

2 hours ago, Sello said:

Put simply, why does a person have the right to abuse another human being?

In my view, no one has this right and I am left a little depressed and somewhat confused by the attempts to justify this.

According to many above, it is permissable if the abuser's assessment of the abused person's resilience is that he will be able to "take it." How is that assessment made?

Some are more careless than this and assume all footballers should be able to take it as they earn more than the rest of us.

I remember similar justification being offered in defence of racism. I sometimes still hear it. 

If this is considered too sensitive a response to be relevant to the world of football, perhaps we should be concerned if only for the more selfish and practical reason that some young talent may be falling by the wayside as a result of this behaviour. 

 

This is a great post. People recite the old how much they get paid and @phantom rattled on about being shot at etc to justify other people who are getting abused, not having any right to complain or say it affects them.

I know that if my customers personally abused me, I would be a bit put out.

It’s  all very odd.

[Northern Red]

19 minutes ago, EmissionImpossible said:

Why ar people obsessed with using the word ‘snowflakes’

I tend to find that people who use the term are also more likely to display the characteristics associated with it.

[ChippenhamRed]

2 hours ago, BTRFTG said:

I do know Engvald passed himself off as a 'professional footballer' and I'd find it hard to believe he and his agent didn't agree his contract (though not necessarily transfer fee.) In my book that makes him a charlatan of the first water. Had he a personal sense of honour he'd have passed up the opportunity knowing he was out of his depth and would never be able to uphold his side of the contract. But of course why should he, we were the mugs paying him handsomely and far beyond his deserving? That secondary point having fans highlight his notable limitations is entirely justified and shows as much care for his feelings as he did for ours. 

What a strange post.

Engvall didn’t “pass himself off” as a professional footballer in some great act of deceit. He played 64 games for IFK Gothenburg, scoring 16 goals, and has represented his country. Quite clearly he has some amount of talent in order to achieve this. It didn’t work out here, but that doesn’t mean he “knew he was out of his depth”. Neither does it make him a charlatan. He was offered an opportunity for sign for our club and took it.

As for claiming he “didn’t show care for the fans feelings”....well, I don’t even know where to start with that.

Frankly you are talking vast amounts of nonsense based entirely on speculation and fanciful theories about players deceiving people into believing they are footballers. If you must blame anyone, blame our recruitment team and scouting network for a poor signing. It happens here and everywhere else.

[Distortia]

10 hours ago, BTRFTG said:

Aw, diddums....

If you stick your head above the parapet for the glory, adulation and reward it brings you should also be prepared to take the flak when things don't go so well, usually as a result of personal failings.

Can't imagine Mackay or Souness ever lost sleep over abuse, for they were man enough to realise one can turn it to one's own advantage.

As for Lisbie, no chance he'll be in the stiffs anytime soon as he's on fire this season banging in hat-tricks for my mate's team.

Have you ever considered that not everybody thinks this way? I can tell you with certainty that not all footballers are angry testosterone-full beings. A lot just happen to be great at a sport and play it to provide for their family and would happily do without the constant abuse from the stands. Of course there are also many players who thrive on this but I think it's ridiculous to insinuate people who don't like being shouted at by thousands of angry football fans are not 'man enough'.

[AppyDAZE]

32 minutes ago, Distortia said:

Have you ever considered that not everybody thinks this way? I can tell you with certainty that not all footballers are angry testosterone-full beings. A lot just happen to be great at a sport and play it to provide for their family and would happily do without the constant abuse from the stands. Of course there are also many players who thrive on this but I think it's ridiculous to insinuate people who don't like being shouted at by thousands of angry football fans are not 'man enough'.

Poor sods, obviously chose the wrong jobs.

I'll spare a thought for the less fortunate tomorrow morning at 6 AM.

 

Well, no. I doubt I'll feel much like it to be honest.

Look, no one's condoning racism, vile personable abuse, homophobia etc etc but

 

Thousands of angry fans shouting....  ooh, whatever next?

[Mr Popodopolous]

7 hours ago, Slack Bladder said:

I thought it was the job of the fans to make your ground as intimidating as possible for the opposition.

Some do it very well.

Very true.

Not abuse based on race, ethnicity etc but yeah flak to the opposition always my impression too.

@Alan Dicks' Barmy Army

Social media abuse can be very damaging- but in specific types of cases. A lot of it? Perhaps not so much.

[downendcity]

11 hours ago, LondonBristolian said:

All of this said, it does remind me of the amusing Mark Viduka story when he was at, I think Boro.

After a match he was confronted by a fan who said something like "For ****'s sake Viduka, you're shit. Try harder - I pay your ******* wages".

Viduka grinned at him, said "ah, you pay my wages do you?" Then shook his hand and said "Congratulations, you must be one rich ******!".

......................."I do and  I am" replied Boro owner Steve Gibson
 

[Cider red]

Giving stick is part and parcel of the game; fans love a pantomime villain and some players love being it. Just look at Palmer on Saturday for example. Sane rubbed our noses in it when he scored last years; this kind of vitriol makes footy footy. Yes there is a line but to get rid of it completely you may as well go and watch rugby; boooooring!

[1bristolcity]

8 hours ago, phantom said:

As a matter of fact the job "I chose" I have taken lots of abuse from people, as a Manager often had to deal with angry people.

I knew it was part of my job and I chose to take the position offered to me

@Robert the bruce - care to explain what you mean please?

By front line I thought we were talking of a more real front line with bullets and shells an all.

Customer services is not the Somme.

 

[1bristolcity]

10 hours ago, BRISTOL86 said:

Agreed. Bizarre logic at times and I’ve never understood that mentality. 

By that logic because I’m an accountant and not a bin man I should expect to receive a proportionally higher amount of abuse from strangers in my workplace because I earn more than they do?

Bin Man? Try Waste Disposal Operator

Accountant? Try Bean Counter

And yes the 'Bin Man' should earn more that you, obviously, because you and yours  provide the 'logic' that suppresses the likes of 'Bin Man.  

 

******* capitalist 

[Ashtonboy]

Does anyone else remember the Brian Tinnion incident. Receiving dogs abuse from the Dolman stand he finally broke and let rip with hand gestures to show his displeasure. He was quickly substituted and I thought he would never play for the club again. Was he a "snowflake" or were the crowd right. 

[Antman]

20 hours ago, Alan Dicks' Barmy Army said:

Clearly you live behind a computer screen and never taken flak off of anyone in the real world

nonsense

[BobBobSuperBob]

19 hours ago, phantom said:

 

Can ANYONE translate these posts into English please?

Sounds like something Eric Cantona would say!!

I read it as in reference your comment ‘STANDING on the FRONTLINE’ Phants

In a war / battle frontline obviously not the best ideaa

wasps buzzing - rounds whizzing past your ear ?

Reduce your profile (As in don’t stand on a frontline)

 

[LondonBristolian]

21 hours ago, Alan Dicks' Barmy Army said:

Clearly you live behind a computer screen and never taken flak off of anyone in the real world

Personally I've taken a lot of flak from a lot of people. It's frustrating, and it's never nice to be shouted at, but I deal with it when it happens and I'll actively encourage anyone who I manage to refer anyone unpleasant or abusive to me so I can deal with it so they don't have to.

BUT I also take responsibility for my own actions and do my best to avoid being abusive or aggressive to other people. Not because it makes the other person feel shit - although of course it does - and not simply because I respect the fact that complete strangers are not punchbags I can take my feelings out on - although I do respect that- but because it achieves absolutely nothing. The message gets lost amongst the abuse, it does absolutely nothing to improve results and it just makes everyone feel crap about themselves.

What strikes me about this thread - and, to be honest, it is a sad streak creeping through society at the moment in myriad forms - is that what the people who are justifying abuse on the basis that "it doesn't matter because players can take it" are REALLY saying is "I have the right to treat people I don't know how I want and I should not be held accountable for the consequences of my own actions."

Is that really the best we can do as a society?

[Antman]

1 hour ago, Ashtonboy said:

Does anyone else remember the Brian Tinnion incident. Receiving dogs abuse from the Dolman stand he finally broke and let rip with hand gestures to show his displeasure. He was quickly substituted and I thought he would never play for the club again. Was he a "snowflake" or were the crowd right. 

or Scott mcGarvey before he signed for us - taunted because of his curly hair - 'shirley Temple' and also Ian Baird giving the Atyeo 2 fingers as he had been barracked for being shite.

it can be a hazy distinction between 'witty' banter and sheer abuse. But as I recall these two examples were not done with aggression or venom, whereas nowadays certain people think it acceptable to personally abuse and threaten

[Robbored]

2 minutes ago, Antman said:

or Scott mcGarvey before he signed for us - taunted because of his curly hair - 'shirley Temple' and also Ian Baird giving the Atyeo 2 fingers as he had been barracked for being shite.

it can be a hazy distinction between 'witty' banter and sheer abuse. But as I recall these two examples were not done with aggression or venom, whereas nowadays certain people think it acceptable to personally abuse and threaten

Football is entirely different to ordinary day to day life. 

Verbally criticising/abusing a player within his earshot is deemed perfectly acceptable within any stadium.  That doesn’t make it right of course.

Fans know that as to the players and it’s seen as ‘all part of the game’.

Joe Bryan said in interview that he didn’t enjoying playing as much on the Dolman side of the pitch as he could hear all the comments......that tells us that all the players on that side of the pitch can hear.......

No doubt JB shrugged off any criticism aimed at him and I’d guess that most players do.

Away from AG no doubt our players expect abuse from the home fans but if a player is of a sensitive nature then getting a slagging from your own fans at AG would have more of an effect.

[Mr Popodopolous]

What constitutes 'abuse' though? In this context I mean, not one on one at work, the street whatever. Different people have different definitions.

(Racism, homophobia, threats etc I don't include).

• Example 1- a chant of 'Where's your caravan' at opposing keeper with long hair? Abuse, banter or racism (the third the least likely).
• The 'wonker wonker wonker' chant that inflammatory opposing players get? Sure Kasey Palmer got some of that Sunday. Again acceptable or not?
• The flak Sane got in January...hmm. Fairly sure he was inflaming the crowd though?

[RumRed]

I feel sorry for the referees 

[phantom]

1 hour ago, Robbored said:

Joe Bryan said in interview that he didn’t enjoying playing as much on the Dolman side of the pitch as he could hear all the comments......that tells us that all the players on that side of the pitch can hear.......

Yet the Bristol rugby boys were saying they struggled to communicate on the pitch against Bath because of the noise

I always wonder why a player is not that focussed on the pitch that they are paying attention to the crowd?

[Robbored]

11 minutes ago, phantom said:

Yet the Bristol rugby boys were saying they struggled to communicate on the pitch against Bath because of the noise

I always wonder why a player is not that focussed on the pitch that they are paying attention to the crowd?

I imagine that what the players hear in the background is the  general hum of the crowd that becomes just background noise but if you’re near the touch line near the Dolman then individual comments would easily stand out.

 

[phantom]

7 minutes ago, Robbored said:

I imagine that what the players hear in the background is the  general hum of the crowd that becomes just background noise but if you’re near the touch line near the Dolman then individual comments would easily stand out.

 

May go a long way to explaining why JB seemed to switch off during games

[Alan Dicks' Barmy Army]

17 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Very true.

Not abuse based on race, ethnicity etc but yeah flak to the opposition always my impression too.

@Alan Dicks' Barmy Army

Social media abuse can be very damaging- but in specific types of cases. A lot of it? Perhaps not so much.

Completely agree @Mr Popodopolous - but like this idiot bird on Big Brother did, just delete the account to avoid it

[AppyDAZE]

23 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

Flack throwing is highly dangerous and could result in a nasty accident so best avoided.

 

Has got me wondering...

What is the worst?  Having flack thrown at you,  taking stick,  getting hammered, having the piss ripped, ???

They all sound jolly unpleasant (with the possible exception of the hammered one)

Damned glad I wasn't ever a footballer. Sounds like pure HELL.

No wonder they're always bleating.