7 points from 3 games. Johnson Outers Must Be Devastated.

[Cowshed]

8 minutes ago, downendcity said:

Are these by Damian Hurst and do they come signed and framed?

First one cant be. No central midfield. 

[Davefevs]

34 minutes ago, downendcity said:

Are these by Damian Hurst and do they come signed and framed?

Is that the ex-Sheffield Wednesday striker?

[Lanterne Rouge]

50 minutes ago, downendcity said:

Are these by Damian Hurst and do they come signed and framed?

No but I`m sure @Cowshed would do you a limited edition framed print for a nominal fee - say £5k?

[Davefevs]

16 minutes ago, Red Right Hand said:

No but I`m sure @Cowshed would do you a limited edition framed print for a nominal fee - say £5k?

I’ve got the condensed version from @BigTone

It’s titled “Johnson”

[reddogkev]

48 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

First one cant be. No central midfield. 

Cowshed, are you a management/ analytical professional in the game at the moment?  You seem to have a far more detailed knowledge / different turn of phrase compared to most fans I've ever encountered. 

However, despite the comprehensive explanations you've given above, I'm still none the wiser - are you for LJ, or not???

 

[Mike Hunt-Hertz]

19 hours ago, Sixtyseconds said:

What is it then?

Odowda does differently.

To 

Elliason.

Member that Ryan Kent?

Like a Toddler for Ashton Boys on a sugar rush. 

More width.

No passing.

 

Has Tommy hacked your account?

[Davefevs]

11 minutes ago, reddogkev said:

Cowshed, are you a management/ analytical professional in the game at the moment?  You seem to have a far more detailed knowledge / different turn of phrase compared to most fans I've ever encountered. 

However, despite the comprehensive explanations you've given above, I'm still none the wiser - are you for LJ, or not???

 

He’s a professional coach I believe....not sure at what level though.

[reddogkev]

Just now, Davefevs said:

He’s a professional coach I believe....not sure at what level though.

Cheers, Dave, good to know.  One of the things I love, and no doubt we all do, about this forum is the high quality level of posters who use OTIB - like yourself of course.

[Davefevs]

33 minutes ago, reddogkev said:

Cheers, Dave, good to know.  One of the things I love, and no doubt we all do, about this forum is the high quality level of posters who use OTIB - like yourself of course.

I just post a lot, law of averages says one or two posts will be decent 

[Spike]

On 12/12/2018 at 11:59, Alessandro said:

OK i'll answer that, if you answer me two questions at the end - I believe what they want is a team of players comfortable on the ball, who can play out from the back, will have high energy levels and press when out of possession. For the most part we see that, what my unqualified eye see's then is a lack of urgency going forward, probably in most part due to a lack of penetration and attacking ability. Is that coaching or personnel? Both i'm sure. This 'identity' has stayed loosely, in theory, the same for LJ's time here. Pressing, possession football. Is it always achieved, clearly no - but is that surprising? It's football and it's an ever evolving work in progress.

7

I may be mistaken but the pressing possession football that I saw last season certainly isn't the football I'm seeing this season. Compared to last season our ball retention seems to have gone backwards with a lot more basic level mistakes, I also don't see that effective pressing that we had in place, if anything I'd say we're far less aggressive in our pressing which allows our opponents more time to create better opportunities against us.

On 12/12/2018 at 11:59, Alessandro said:

I agree with what you're saying about finding a tactical identity - but of the three teams you mention, only Cardiff can fall into the argument you're trying to make. I.E you can have a football identity that leads to success, without wealth (and even then, just. Parachute payments) Perhaps Sheffield United and Brentford (under Dean Smith) are better examples. They all have a good manager in common. Fulham and Wolves however may have/had good managers, but they also had the money and connections to back up the tactical identity that not many teams in this division can boast. Plenty do boast similar resources and still fail year on year.

2

Whilst I can agree with your points here I think a better way toi look at the point that's trying to be made is can you name some Championship teams who have been successful but had no definitive tactical identity? I certainly cannot think of any and it goes without saying that a tactical identity allows a teams players to shine if they fit into it. A good example of this was last seasons performances, certain players shone as the tactical identity suited them, others such as Ryan Kent didn't fit the identity and so they failed to shine. The aim is to create your tactical identity and build the squad around it, not build a squad of talent and then try to create a tactical identity around players who just do not work in the same set up.

On 12/12/2018 at 11:59, Alessandro said:

I find the comment about playing style vs recruitment interesting - you've spoken with a broad brush there. Which signed players go against the grain? In general we have signed players that fit the possession/high energy model. The only one in the first team who doesn't fit that might be Famara, but he seems to be able to when he fancies it. The rest of the signings this summer you can see exactly how, on paper, they should fit in. There have been the odd player, Djuric for example, that go against it, but is there any harm in having a few different instruments at your disposal in this league?

1

Different instruments is great when you have the cash to do so, let's be honest, we don't so having so many players instead of one stand out player does us no favours when we can only put 11 men on the pitch at one time. 

I do agree that the signings fit into that possession/high energy model but they also lack in crucial areas of their game meaning whilst they may be able to run for 90 minutes and pass the ball about it means nothing as the team has no end product. Of our midfielders I can't think of a single player who can play a defence-splitting pass which is probably why Johnson has taken to playing down the wings to Eliasson as he's one of our few wide men who can actually deliver a cross.

Personally, I think our best signing has been Webster and I honestly wish Kalas was permanent but come the end of the season he'll go back and onto bigger and better things leaving us with a hard position to fill again. With regards to Weimann I worry that he may have been our biggest waste of money as he may have the high energy but he lacks that killer instinct in the box which is far more crucial as a striker.

I think Eisa and Adelakun were more roll of the dice signings with a hope that if they didn't hit the ground ruining they'd be ones to develop.

I don;t know what to make of Watkins, right now he seems like another waste of £1m, Jack Hunt can't get into the team due to Pisano making him a £1.7m back up player and Eisa set us back the same fee and has only played in 6 matches this season and is yet to score.

All in all the players may meet the tactical identity but they are nowhere near the quality we need after losing so many key players.

On 12/12/2018 at 11:59, Alessandro said:

Obviously there have, and will be failed signings (see above, is that surprising? No it's football) but the "millions wasted" is rather over the top again perhaps. Only Engvall off the top of my head falls into that category, as of now. Unless you have a crystal ball and can see the likes of Walsh, Eisa, Adelakun being a failure here? And ultimately, it only takes one of them, Eliasson for example, to go for £10m and that pays for them all.

1

I disagree, as mentioned above, £1.1m on Watkins, £1.7m on Eisa, £1.7 on Hunt and £2.25m on Weimann, that's £6.75m on players who haven't improved the team at all, it's a lot of money to be spending on squad players who have minimal impact or no impact at all.

I do understand your point about one good sale making up for all these players too, that's the business model we seem to be working on but that's ignoring wages. Walsh, Eisa, Adelakun etc are still costing the club week in, week out and rather than spending lots of "smaller wage packets" on bit players wouldn't it be more beneficial to put those wages into landing a player who can have an actual impact?

On 12/12/2018 at 11:59, Alessandro said:

So two questions then. If they are making it up, how have they, up to now, delivered year on year progression in league position? And how are we sat 13th in the table? Because it is my strong belief that in this league, if you make it up, you get found out and found out quickly you will be and finding yourself even quicker in the bottom 3. And yet, despite making it up, one final question - how many days have we spent in the bottom 3 under LJ?

So progression is based on final position? In that case:

The 2015/16 season where LJ took over we went from 20th to 18th, albeit a large improvement in performances but still with SC's squad/team. I would only give him credit for changing a system, that SC refused to change despite it not working in the Championship as he made no changes to the squad, only giving us a new tactical identity.

The 2016/17 season was the season where we went from Nov 5th to 21 January with a record of 11 losses in 12 games and one win, 8 of those losses were in a row, this despite having loaned in Tammy Abraham who has proven that he is one of the best goal scoring talents in the Championship.

We also brought in David Cotterill, Fabian Giefer and Matthews on loan, all three were largely unimpressive. We also brought in 21 players on permanent deals. Duric for £1.5, Engvall for £1.3m, Moore for £1.5m, O'Dowda for £1m, Magnússon for £2.1m and Tomlin for £3m being the main payments made.
Duric was a bit player until he left us recently, Engvall was an utter waste of money, Moore has yet to prove his worth for us, Tomlin played a part but then became a thorn in our side leaving only O'Dowda and Magnússon to be considered worth-while purchases.

We finished 17th, one position higher than we finished the season prior. We sold Kodjia for £11m but after all of the money we brought in from our sales we spent all but £855k on the 21 players we brought in and having sold Kodjia come the end of the season Abraham went back to Chelsea leaving us without a stand out striker.

To this point the "progression" in one and a half season was moving up from a 20th position to a 17th position finish.

 

The 2017/18 season is easily Johnsons best season, no arguing that at all we finished 11th which again is "progress" until of course you realise that on boxing day we were 2nd with a transfer window to come.

In this season we sold 3 players, released 2 and made around £2.9 in sales taking a minimal loss on Tomlin, however we spent £11.9m meaning we lost £9m in our transfer dealings. Included in these purchases was Diedhiou for £5m, Eliasson for £1.8m, Walsh for just under £1m and Baker for £3.9m. I personally think this was Johnsons best transfer window in terms of the players he brought in, however as I mentioned it came at a £9m loss which more than likely contributed in the long run for this pre-seasons sales.

Looking back I honestly believe the 17/18 season was our make or break push for the Premiership and that the reason Flint had signed a new contract was he had an agreement to be let go should we fail to gain promotion, that said this is my personal opinion and not a fact.

So with a £9m loss everything went perfect for the first part of the season with an amazing cup run and a 2nd position come boxing day, we had a clear tactical identity, threats in multiple positions and a balance between the team that was working well. Then came the New Year, we brought in Kent who didn't suit our tactical identity, we brought in Diony who had only been at his club after signing for a lot of money and was already being shipped out on loan (warning signs). After having such a great first half of the season teams had taken notice of us and were learning how we played, rather than stick to what we'd been doing we brought Diony and Kent into the mix up who offered next to nothing, this prompted LJ to change his mind numerous times and by the end of March we were 7th and falling away from the promotion battle.

Despite such a strong position in December I think the reason we didn't invest more into a proven striker rather than one who was being shipped out after only recently signing for his club was that we'd taken a £9m loss in our dealings and SL was reluctant to invest more seeing that we had reached 2nd with what we already had and how well we were playing. This is one thing I don't blame on LJ, I believe we had the chance to push on and SL being a business minded man saw our 2nd place as we were "good enough" to get promoted and didn't give LJ the money to go out and get the last few pieces of the puzzle to push us onwards.

Regardless of what actually happened and what is my personal thoughts/opinions on it all we ultimately dropped 9 places by the end of the season and then had to sell Ried, Flint, Magnússon and Bryan to improve the finances.

The cup run and the first half of that season is, in my opinion, the only reason SL still has LJ as our manager. I think that he thinks we can do that again under LJ, however one thing I have not got to is the transfer dealings that LJ has made. He has spent £26m on his players since arriving and of those players he's signed he's sold one for a loss. His sales of the players he inherited when he took over have generated £37.7m so whilst we're still £11.7m up since he took over it's clear to see that he's financially living off of the quality brought in prior to him rather than developing his own money through his transfer dealings. That may be fine for now but this means he's still yet to prove that any of his signings will gain profit and he's already sold all of the quality talents we had when he arrived with the exception of a handful.

So back to the point at hand, progression, have we really progressed? Financially the transfers have made us money but they have also left us with less talented players so I wouldn't say it's progression, more a case of biding time and hoping that the players LJ has spent on can generate the money back. Having spent £26m on his players I honestly do not see them going on to be sold for more than that but it's a time will tell situation.

In regards to league position and team strength, league position is currently 13th with LJ taking over when we were 20th, this is a progression but is negated by our current squad/team strength. There is an argument that the overall squad has more depth but in terms of starting 11 we were far better off when LJ signed so overall I would say should we finish below 11th we've not progressed since last season and that would be the beginning of our downwards turn.

All in all I don't think LJ has progressed the club as much as people make out, personally I think he's creating his spending money off of great signings made by Cotterill and has spent an awful lot of money on players of which most are more miss than hit.

 

 

[Davefevs]

@Spike good post.  Progress is subjective and certainly not clear-cut unless you take it purely to be league position.

in terms of league position alone....progress.  What happens if we end up 12th.  Facts would say we’ve gone backwards.

There are so many things which make up the bigger picture.  Some are positive, some are negative, we’ll each have our view on that.

The biggest thing for me is that we use the last few games to build momentum over the next 4/5/6 games and see improvement.  That might not be remaining unbeaten (fantastic if so), but I want to be able to look back and think we are in a better position (not necessarily just league position) than where we were going into Ipswich away.

[Bazooka Joe]

Who is Johnson Outers?

and why is he devastated?

[spudski]

2 hours ago, Spike said:

I may be mistaken but the pressing possession football that I saw last season certainly isn't the football I'm seeing this season. Compared to last season our ball retention seems to have gone backwards with a lot more basic level mistakes, I also don't see that effective pressing that we had in place, if anything I'd say we're far less aggressive in our pressing which allows our opponents more time to create better opportunities against us.

Whilst I can agree with your points here I think a better way toi look at the point that's trying to be made is can you name some Championship teams who have been successful but had no definitive tactical identity? I certainly cannot think of any and it goes without saying that a tactical identity allows a teams players to shine if they fit into it. A good example of this was last seasons performances, certain players shone as the tactical identity suited them, others such as Ryan Kent didn't fit the identity and so they failed to shine. The aim is to create your tactical identity and build the squad around it, not build a squad of talent and then try to create a tactical identity around players who just do not work in the same set up.

Different instruments is great when you have the cash to do so, let's be honest, we don't so having so many players instead of one stand out player does us no favours when we can only put 11 men on the pitch at one time. 

I do agree that the signings fit into that possession/high energy model but they also lack in crucial areas of their game meaning whilst they may be able to run for 90 minutes and pass the ball about it means nothing as the team has no end product. Of our midfielders I can't think of a single player who can play a defence-splitting pass which is probably why Johnson has taken to playing down the wings to Eliasson as he's one of our few wide men who can actually deliver a cross.

Personally, I think our best signing has been Webster and I honestly wish Kalas was permanent but come the end of the season he'll go back and onto bigger and better things leaving us with a hard position to fill again. With regards to Weimann I worry that he may have been our biggest waste of money as he may have the high energy but he lacks that killer instinct in the box which is far more crucial as a striker.

I think Eisa and Adelakun were more roll of the dice signings with a hope that if they didn't hit the ground ruining they'd be ones to develop.

I don;t know what to make of Watkins, right now he seems like another waste of £1m, Jack Hunt can't get into the team due to Pisano making him a £1.7m back up player and Eisa set us back the same fee and has only played in 6 matches this season and is yet to score.

All in all the players may meet the tactical identity but they are nowhere near the quality we need after losing so many key players.

I disagree, as mentioned above, £1.1m on Watkins, £1.7m on Eisa, £1.7 on Hunt and £2.25m on Weimann, that's £6.75m on players who haven't improved the team at all, it's a lot of money to be spending on squad players who have minimal impact or no impact at all.

I do understand your point about one good sale making up for all these players too, that's the business model we seem to be working on but that's ignoring wages. Walsh, Eisa, Adelakun etc are still costing the club week in, week out and rather than spending lots of "smaller wage packets" on bit players wouldn't it be more beneficial to put those wages into landing a player who can have an actual impact?

So progression is based on final position? In that case:

The 2015/16 season where LJ took over we went from 20th to 18th, albeit a large improvement in performances but still with SC's squad/team. I would only give him credit for changing a system, that SC refused to change despite it not working in the Championship as he made no changes to the squad, only giving us a new tactical identity.

The 2016/17 season was the season where we went from Nov 5th to 21 January with a record of 11 losses in 12 games and one win, 8 of those losses were in a row, this despite having loaned in Tammy Abraham who has proven that he is one of the best goal scoring talents in the Championship.

We also brought in David Cotterill, Fabian Giefer and Matthews on loan, all three were largely unimpressive. We also brought in 21 players on permanent deals. Duric for £1.5, Engvall for £1.3m, Moore for £1.5m, O'Dowda for £1m, Magnússon for £2.1m and Tomlin for £3m being the main payments made.
Duric was a bit player until he left us recently, Engvall was an utter waste of money, Moore has yet to prove his worth for us, Tomlin played a part but then became a thorn in our side leaving only O'Dowda and Magnússon to be considered worth-while purchases.

We finished 17th, one position higher than we finished the season prior. We sold Kodjia for £11m but after all of the money we brought in from our sales we spent all but £855k on the 21 players we brought in and having sold Kodjia come the end of the season Abraham went back to Chelsea leaving us without a stand out striker.

To this point the "progression" in one and a half season was moving up from a 20th position to a 17th position finish.

 

The 2017/18 season is easily Johnsons best season, no arguing that at all we finished 11th which again is "progress" until of course you realise that on boxing day we were 2nd with a transfer window to come.

In this season we sold 3 players, released 2 and made around £2.9 in sales taking a minimal loss on Tomlin, however we spent £11.9m meaning we lost £9m in our transfer dealings. Included in these purchases was Diedhiou for £5m, Eliasson for £1.8m, Walsh for just under £1m and Baker for £3.9m. I personally think this was Johnsons best transfer window in terms of the players he brought in, however as I mentioned it came at a £9m loss which more than likely contributed in the long run for this pre-seasons sales.

Looking back I honestly believe the 17/18 season was our make or break push for the Premiership and that the reason Flint had signed a new contract was he had an agreement to be let go should we fail to gain promotion, that said this is my personal opinion and not a fact.

So with a £9m loss everything went perfect for the first part of the season with an amazing cup run and a 2nd position come boxing day, we had a clear tactical identity, threats in multiple positions and a balance between the team that was working well. Then came the New Year, we brought in Kent who didn't suit our tactical identity, we brought in Diony who had only been at his club after signing for a lot of money and was already being shipped out on loan (warning signs). After having such a great first half of the season teams had taken notice of us and were learning how we played, rather than stick to what we'd been doing we brought Diony and Kent into the mix up who offered next to nothing, this prompted LJ to change his mind numerous times and by the end of March we were 7th and falling away from the promotion battle.

Despite such a strong position in December I think the reason we didn't invest more into a proven striker rather than one who was being shipped out after only recently signing for his club was that we'd taken a £9m loss in our dealings and SL was reluctant to invest more seeing that we had reached 2nd with what we already had and how well we were playing. This is one thing I don't blame on LJ, I believe we had the chance to push on and SL being a business minded man saw our 2nd place as we were "good enough" to get promoted and didn't give LJ the money to go out and get the last few pieces of the puzzle to push us onwards.

Regardless of what actually happened and what is my personal thoughts/opinions on it all we ultimately dropped 9 places by the end of the season and then had to sell Ried, Flint, Magnússon and Bryan to improve the finances.

The cup run and the first half of that season is, in my opinion, the only reason SL still has LJ as our manager. I think that he thinks we can do that again under LJ, however one thing I have not got to is the transfer dealings that LJ has made. He has spent £26m on his players since arriving and of those players he's signed he's sold one for a loss. His sales of the players he inherited when he took over have generated £37.7m so whilst we're still £11.7m up since he took over it's clear to see that he's financially living off of the quality brought in prior to him rather than developing his own money through his transfer dealings. That may be fine for now but this means he's still yet to prove that any of his signings will gain profit and he's already sold all of the quality talents we had when he arrived with the exception of a handful.

So back to the point at hand, progression, have we really progressed? Financially the transfers have made us money but they have also left us with less talented players so I wouldn't say it's progression, more a case of biding time and hoping that the players LJ has spent on can generate the money back. Having spent £26m on his players I honestly do not see them going on to be sold for more than that but it's a time will tell situation.

In regards to league position and team strength, league position is currently 13th with LJ taking over when we were 20th, this is a progression but is negated by our current squad/team strength. There is an argument that the overall squad has more depth but in terms of starting 11 we were far better off when LJ signed so overall I would say should we finish below 11th we've not progressed since last season and that would be the beginning of our downwards turn.

All in all I don't think LJ has progressed the club as much as people make out, personally I think he's creating his spending money off of great signings made by Cotterill and has spent an awful lot of money on players of which most are more miss than hit.

 

 

Fine post...however it's worth taking into context how much stronger the Championship is this season.

Imo...it's far stronger than it's ever been.

Where we finish and what we've paid, compared to last season, doesn't really work as the whole league has changed. You have to take into account every other Clubs weaknesses and strengths. Has it become harder...or a weaker league?

Nearly every post in this thread, is taking into account everything we've done at this Club since LJ has been here. And comparing our progress. However...the league is a 'constant'...it's forever changing. Every team is doing the same as us...trying to improve.

So if we were to finish say 14th this season...would it be in theory worse than last season? Position wise yes...but in the context of how much stronger the league is, it actually might be better or the same.

So many different aspects to take into consideration.

[Cowshed]

On ‎14‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 10:05, reddogkev said:

Cowshed, are you a management/ analytical professional in the game at the moment?  You seem to have a far more detailed knowledge / different turn of phrase compared to most fans I've ever encountered. 

However, despite the comprehensive explanations you've given above, I'm still none the wiser - are you for LJ, or not???

 

 Yes I work in football. In regards to LJ I am sceptical. He has shown fleeting signs that he can be very good. If its a closed question its a not. 

[Alessandro]

@Spike nice post and I on the whole agree with you.

I wasn’t actually ever saying league position is the only factor I’m measuring progress with - but just using it is an example to counter the argument being made that millions had be wasted and no progress has been made because under LJ the team still has no identity.

As others have said - measuring is progress is extremely difficult and there are plenty of variables in play.

FWIW - I get the sense that the clubs management are happy to ‘tread water’ as the club makes progress off the pitch, in the academy, training, scouting etc etc.

That is why I talked about the bigger picture - the end goal right now is clearly ‘getting all the pieces in place’ - perhaps to have a real push in quality of signings and raising the wage structure for a real promotion push. Maybe.

I do agree with you and what others have said, we will need to find a clearer style and identity if that’s going to happen, so if LJ can’t provide that, we should look elsewhere. But I do still believe that recruitment constraints play a part in developing it. 

[Alessandro]

@Cowshed - can you explain for this layman the detailed differences in those heat maps? What’s changed? Why has it changed, exactly? How are we moving differently through the thirds this season as oppose to last?

[Davefevs]

45 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

@Spike nice post and I on the whole agree with you.

I wasn’t actually ever saying league position is the only factor I’m measuring progress with - but just using it is an example to counter the argument being made that millions had be wasted and no progress has been made because under LJ the team still has no identity.

As others have said - measuring is progress is extremely difficult and there are plenty of variables in play.

FWIW - I get the sense that the clubs management are happy to ‘tread water’ as the club makes progress off the pitch, in the academy, training, scouting etc etc.

That is why I talked about the bigger picture - the end goal right now is clearly ‘getting all the pieces in place’ - perhaps to have a real push in quality of signings and raising the wage structure for a real promotion push. Maybe.

I do agree with you and what others have said, we will need to find a clearer style and identity if that’s going to happen, so if LJ can’t provide that, we should look elsewhere. But I do still believe that recruitment constraints play a part in developing it. 

That’s kinda my view / hope.  He could do with clearing a few bits of dead-wood out, have a more efficient squad to allow the focus to only be on players to improve us (whilst re-stocking the conveyor belt of “for the future” and Academy players).

Simple innit? 

[Mr Popodopolous]

22 hours ago, spudski said:

Fine post...however it's worth taking into context how much stronger the Championship is this season.

Imo...it's far stronger than it's ever been.

Where we finish and what we've paid, compared to last season, doesn't really work as the whole league has changed. You have to take into account every other Clubs weaknesses and strengths. Has it become harder...or a weaker league?

Nearly every post in this thread, is taking into account everything we've done at this Club since LJ has been here. And comparing our progress. However...the league is a 'constant'...it's forever changing. Every team is doing the same as us...trying to improve.

So if we were to finish say 14th this season...would it be in theory worse than last season? Position wise yes...but in the context of how much stronger the league is, it actually might be better or the same.

So many different aspects to take into consideration.

Is it?

I don't have time to get into this properly right now, but no Wolves, no Fulham...

Though Cardiff weren't exactly a free flowing side, Warnock is a specialist.

[BobBobSuperBob]

6 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Is it?

I don't have time to get into this properly right now, but no Wolves, no Fulham...

Though Cardiff weren't exactly a free flowing side, Warnock is a specialist.

I think it’s more average than it’s been for a few years

[Davefevs]

7 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

I think it’s more average than it’s been for a few years

More even, but still tough

[BobBobSuperBob]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

More even, but still tough

Agree with that - very little in terms of top quality or dross

[Mr Popodopolous]

17 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

I think it’s more average than it’s been for a few years

There are definitely clubs who have strengthened- Leeds getting Bielsa is a big upgrade for them while Derby and Villa more pleasing on the eye under Lampard and Smith respectively and maybe better sides- time will tell but early signs look good. Norwich getting Pukki surely has helped them a lot.

However I think the sides who went up as a whole stronger than those who came down from PL last season. Lost a big club in Sunderland who could have been a threat under the right manager maybe- Wigan, Blackburn and Rotherham doing okay but a much lower natural ceiling than a club like Sunderland.

Then you have sides demonstrably weaker- us, Brentford (through a mix of players and Dean Smith leaving) Preston perhaps largely due to injuries. Ohhh and Ipswich of course (they were arguably over performing through a combination of McCarthy plus Waghorn, McGoldrick Garner- all of whom left).

So yeah net, as I say can't get into it team by team but it just feels weaker.

[Cowshed]

10 hours ago, Alessandro said:

@Cowshed - can you explain for this layman the detailed differences in those heat maps? What’s changed? Why has it changed, exactly? How are we moving differently through the thirds this season as oppose to last?

The first is a team looking to play forwards quickly and directly often missing out midfield. The second was a team playing far shorter passes, playing through midfield. The two matches were a week apart. What changed was Lee Johnsons intent.

When there is that amount of change not only does the team attack and pass the ball differently it also defend differently. The physical demands of defending behind lost possession from long balls are higher if done aggressively.

Fundamentally that cannot be Lee Johnson playing the same for his whole time here. 

This season Bristol City have not played as long or direct as the first example, but they have played with a lot more width and crossing.

Today the team played narrower and crossed less. 

 

 

[RumRed]

Can we just lock this thread, or change the title at least.

NO ONE WANTS JOHNSON TO FAIL.

f’ing winds me up this sanctimonious balls.

[Chivs]

On 15/12/2018 at 23:37, RumRed said:

Can we just lock this thread, or change the title at least.

NO ONE WANTS JOHNSON TO FAIL.

f’ing winds me up this sanctimonious balls.

But many do.  Don't you read the forum?

I've never been able to fathom why or why Johnson seems to invoke such passionate feelings against him.

[Robbored]

9 minutes ago, Chivs said:

But many do.  Don't you read the forum?

I've never been able to fathom why or why Johnson seems to invoke such passionate feelings against him.

You’re right Chivs - several posters on here are repeatedly slagging off LJ ranging from his tactics, his formations, his substitutions and, more recently twisting his post match and media interviews into negative bollocks.

They must be desperately unhappy that City have 8 points from 4 games recently.............

I mean, do the anti LJ brigade want the best for the club they so say support?        

[Natchfever]

41 minutes ago, Chivs said:

But many do.  Don't you read the forum?

I've never been able to fathom why or why Johnson seems to invoke such passionate feelings against him.

Because to many, he had preferential treatment here as a player, and is getting the same now as a coach.

I dislike him but want him to succeed and I don't know anyone who would want to see him fail because that means the club would be seriously in the shit as he would not be sacked regardless of where we finished in the division.

[BobBobSuperBob]

35 minutes ago, Robbored said:

You’re right Chivs - several posters on here are repeatedly slagging off LJ ranging from his tactics, his formations, his substitutions and, more recently twisting his post match and media interviews into negative bollocks.

They must be desperately unhappy that City have 8 points from 4 games recently.............

I mean, do the anti LJ brigade want the best for the club they so say support?        

Bit like the questions raised about the Supporters Club when you were chairman and , from behind a keyboard slating the most sucessful manager we’ve had since Dicks

Cringeworthy - and a true embarrassment 

[Robbored]

35 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Bit like the questions raised about the Supporters Club when you were chairman and , from behind a keyboard slating the most sucessful manager we’ve had since Dicks

Cringeworthy - and a true embarrassment 

C’on Bob, you and pretty much everyone else knows that my beef with GJ was the drab and uninspired ‘hand brake on’  type of football he served up game after game............

Recently under LJ I was beginning to worry after the Millwall disappointment  that he was taking the same route but the far better performances against Norwich and at Brum relieved that concern.

I go to AG to be entertained but I’m not sure about why you go Bob...........

[AppyDAZE]

What a cock