Why Johnson should be sacked

[Fordy62]

19 minutes ago, Robbored said:

You repeatedly fail to have any understanding of what SLs strategy is........sadly you’re not alone with that shortcoming.

Its usually the anti LJ brigade that expose their ignorance of said strategy.

I think we all get that Lansdown wants us to become self sufficient. 

Buy promising players, develop them and the flog them for millions. 

Only problem is that LJ has only ever sold other people’s signings for millions. 

He sold Freeman and Ayling for a combined 1.5m and if you were to sell the pair of them now you’d probably get the best part of 20m. 

Realistically which of Johnson’s signings would we now make a profit on? There aren’t many.

At the same time it’s his job to get the best out of the players. He is simply not doing that. And hasn’t done that for 12 months. 

[Lrrr]

1 minute ago, Fordy62 said:

He sold Freeman and Ayling for a combined 1.5m and if you were to sell the pair of them now you’d probably get the best part of 20m

Freeman's being talked about as a £5m player, didn't realise Ayling had been linked with a £15m move.....

[Fordy62]

5 minutes ago, hodge said:

Freeman's being talked about as a £5m player, didn't realise Ayling had been linked with a £15m move.....

I thought the rumoured value was higher than 5m to be fair. 

My point being that they’re players that we got rid of who failed to flourish under LJ for whatever reason and have gone on to prove elsewhere that they weren’t good business for us. 

[BS4 on Tour...]

7 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

.....by refusing to acknowledge that clubs like Leeds and Watford have far more ‘tough and demanding’ bosses than Bristol City FC simply amplifies your continual lack of understanding....

...... @Robbored - your reaction to this post and the description below your avatar, where you admit to being a pantomime clown and a troll, just about sum you up....you can’t debate a simple point....you say SL is a ‘tough and demanding’ football boss.....I disagreed and gave examples of clubs who clearly do have tough and demanding bosses and ask for your opinion on that .....and you predictably act in a childish way and offer zero in terms of a balanced response to add to the debate, preferring to add ‘laughing’ emojis instead of opinion...pantomime clown and troll...you’d better believe it....

[BS4 on Tour...]

10 minutes ago, hodge said:

Freeman's being talked about as a £5m player, didn't realise Ayling had been linked with a £15m move.....

Didn’t realise Freeman was being talked about as a £5m player....thought it was more than that....

[Lrrr]

5 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

I thought the rumoured value was higher than 5m to be fair. 

My point being that they’re players that we got rid of who failed to flourish under LJ for whatever reason and have gone on to prove elsewhere that they weren’t good business for us. 

 

1 minute ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Didn’t realise Freeman was being talked about as a £5m player....thought it was more than that....

Just double checked, seems £5m is what they rejected and probably where I got the figure from, however he has 18 months on his contract left so that figure isn't going to be getting much higher.

https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/qprs-luke-freeman-dilemma-playmaker-15434102

[Simon79]

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Norwich game was good. Showed a few signs v Millwall at times, especially Eliasson. Yesterday wasn't a great watch but think 'awful' during this run fairly harsh.

Sheffield United? We all see things differently, thought it was a good tactical battle myself.

Remember when we went something closer to a standard 4-4-2 last game of season v them? We were 3 down in around half an hour was it- the gaps in the midfield were just ridiculous.

Exactly as I saw it. I’ve actually said it was the best first half performance I’d seen at that point. Thought it was tactically spot on, Elliason tucking in on their playmaker ( little ginger lad ). Sheffield Utd are a good team & felt we were in control, as I said, especially first half. COYR

[keynshamred]

39 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

I think we all get that Lansdown wants us to become self sufficient. 

Buy promising players, develop them and the flog them for millions. 

Only problem is that LJ has only ever sold other people’s signings for millions. 

He sold Freeman and Ayling for a combined 1.5m and if you were to sell the pair of them now you’d probably get the best part of 20m. 

Realistically which of Johnson’s signings would we now make a profit on? There aren’t many.

At the same time it’s his job to get the best out of the players. He is simply not doing that. And hasn’t done that for 12 months. 

Bobby Reid, he made him the ten million pound player he is now.

Brownhill is a better player now then when he bought him. So is O'dowda. Webster has got better and will be a higher value then when we bought him. Elliason alot better player this season, value would be better now.

Not forgetting he took a gamble on Tammy and look at him now. Kalas has proved a top loan and improving each game. Fammys goal record since he's been here is similar to Kodjia and we sold him for 15 million! So not all bad. We still have a high value in our players and that's not forgetting Kelly. 

[Merrick's Marvels]

2 hours ago, Alex_BCFC said:

Question really is - after 3 years here, will he ever do any better with us? And I suspect the answer is no. On that basis, SL will need to carefully review his position come May time before letting him have another x million to spend as I only see him getting loans in January.

I suspect the short term plan is to give him about the same next summer as last - i.e not much - in an effort to sit comfortably within FFP.

Long term, I suspect the plan is to give him "not much" either - the long term plan being for several of the Academy lads currently out on loan to be filling the first team, not expensive purchases from elsewhere. (O'Leary and Vyner very soon; in time maybe Moore, Bakinson, Pring, Semenyo, Lemonheigh-Evans, a youngster or two we've yet to hear about...) 

Now that's optimistic, bordering on pie on the sky, most of us are probably thinking - half the side or more being homegrown players at Championship level.

But I suspect that is the plan set out by the powers that be, neverthless. I also suspect there are very few managers (maybe not just ONE in the entire WORLD, but not far off) willing to work under these conditions - which means Lee Johnson is going to be here for a long, long time yet. Sadly - imo - but there it is.

 

1 hour ago, Eastendboy1965 said:

You are close to the real point, but in fact lets face it, the problem at Bristol City FC is the Owner. He has taken what used to feel like a club with heart and passion and one which was so important to so many for so long and through his control has now lost its identity and ownership of its stadium. Devoid of any interest in its history prior to his arrival this version of the club by Steve Lansdown now feels like a franchise under one mans control, because that is what it has become.  This Bristol Sport heading is also not helping  and means little to anyone... It used to feel like 'our club' and those who followed it passionately and paid their money over the turnstiles, are now discontent, because they feel that they no longer have a voice and fan power means little at Bristol City, we are now simply customers and customers can come and go.

Other than the use of the word "franchise" (#gaslogic) I would agree with all of that.

[Davefevs]

48 minutes ago, Robbored said:

By comparing LJs situation with Leeds and Watford managers simply amplifies your lack understanding.

Our Salary costs in 17/18 were £23.1m.....Leeds in 16/17 were £20.7 (making a £1.0m profit too - one of 4 clubs without PPs to name a profit!!).  Leeds 1718 accounts not out yet, but they won’t be much more than ours if at all.

So there are comparisons!!

[Cowshed]

3 hours ago, ForeverRes said:

 On top of this he buys into the club philosophy that makes his job hard but will put the club in a good place for the future, and he recognises this and I don't think another manager in the world would buy into the clubs vision.

 

Could you explain why?

Other Managers have Managed Bristol City with FAR less resources,

[reddoh]

14 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

Could you explain why?

Other Managers have Managed Bristol City with FAR less resources,

players were cheaper and paid less simples.

[Cowshed]

7 minutes ago, reddoh said:

players were cheaper and paid less simples.

No. A factual simple point. Other Managers were not allowed to operate with a squad costing so far past income.

[reddoh]

2 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

No. A very factual simple point. Other Managers were not allowed to operate with a squad costing so far past income.

without trawling back through history before the net of int. Just from Memory 

I raise you Alan Dicks.

[Trueredsupporter]

7 minutes ago, reddoh said:

without trawling back through history before the net of int. Just from Memory 

I raise you Alan Dicks.

Cotterill, O'Driscoll and McInnes were not allowed money like LJ!!

[pillred]

3 hours ago, Harry said:

A manager should never be sacked on the strength of a few hundred online users. A manager tends to be sacked when the crowds drop and those that remain jeer the team off and get vocal at the ground. 

It’ll never come down to a divided online community. That’s nonsense. 

Actual crowds are dropping, and there were a fair few boos at the end, so by that argument LJ is on borrowed time.

[reddoh]

23 minutes ago, Trueredsupporte said:

Cotterill, O'Driscoll and McInnes were not allowed money like LJ!!

O'Driscoll brought in to steady the ship,( I agree with you )

McInnes given the task  of carrying on (again I agree with you)

Coterill given a double winning side it may not I have been as much but in real terms (going political) it might have been more it might have been less but percentage wise I would say it was more

LJ times have moved on players cost more, agents are parasites

at this time it is hard to compare 

but AD almost lost us our club (not that I blame him the directors should have grown a pair)

[Mr Popodopolous]

26 minutes ago, Trueredsupporte said:

Cotterill, O'Driscoll and McInnes were not allowed money like LJ!!

There are no simple reasons as to why- for a start the club had a lot less money (go check BCFC Holdings) and this was for a variety of reasons for most of these- plus FFP is ever shifting.

Go read from 2011/12 to 2017/18 the BCFC Holdings Accounts, especially splits by income and the answer will be somewhere in there. LJ and his bigger budget is partly at least IMO a matter of good timing and happy coincidence. Who is to say that any of those 3 wouldn't have had quite a bit more to spend if they had been in charge the last 2 and a half seasons in particular.

[Mr Popodopolous]

@Trueredsupporte

• 2011/12- Turnover £11876,923 (Key segments specific to us- Matchday Revenue £1,360,953, Season Ticket Revenue £2,003,073 and Stadium Revenue £3,334,123).
• 2012/13- Turnover- £9,903,442 (Key segments specific to us- Matchday Revenue £1,132,457, Season Ticket Revenue £1,960,641 and Stadium Revenue £1,925,755).
• 2013/14- Turnover- £6,081,107 (Key segments specific to us- Matchday Revenue £1,094,332, Season Ticket Revenue £1,535,792 and Stadium Revenue £1,567,824).
• 2014/15- Turnover- £7,695,219 (Key segments specific to us- Matchday Revenue £2,084,106, Season Ticket Revenue £1,588,429 and Stadium Revenue £2,035,514).
• 2015/16- Turnover- £14,175,396 (Key segments specific to us- Matchday Revenue £1,193,719, Season Ticket Revenue £2,653,544 and Other Commercial and Retail Income £4,800,296).
• 2016/17- Turnover- £21,248,335 (Key segments specific to us- Matchday Revenue £2,079,485, Season Ticket Revenue £2,940,921 and Other Commercial and Retail Income £8,521,347).
• 2017/18- Turnover- £25,062,080 (Key segments specific to us- Matchday Revenue £3,428,485, Season Ticket Revenue £3,216,714 and Other Commercial and Retail Income £10,382,767).

See the differences- especially when you exclude things like TV money, Solidarity Payment, Football League Pool and- maybe it should be included but I don't know whether it encompasses grants etc so I left it out for now- "Other Football Related Income". Another interesting thing to note is that around 2015/16 Stadium Revenue seems to change to "Other Commercial and Retail Income". I can only assume that part of that will be what went before in Stadium Revenue- which should have included some of the Concert Revenue. Because in 2011/12 accounts, Stadium Revenue as already stated came to £3,334,123- and of that £1,111,662 appeared to be Concerts whereas £2,222,462 was other.

In 2012/13 there was nothing under Concerts and elsewhere there was no individual split. Seems it has been bundled in under "Other Commercial and Retail Income" from 2014/15 but the Bristol Sport thing complicates matters of course.

This is predominantly why LJ has had a lot more to spend in a number of ways than those managers listed.

[RumRed]

The OP making a late run for the most passive aggressive post of the year.  What a load of utter balls.

[Whites]

I blame Dunder for not investing in the team...... 

[Maesknoll Red]

3 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

@Trueredsupporte

• 2011/12- Turnover £11876,923 (Key segments specific to us- Matchday Revenue £1,360,953, Season Ticket Revenue £2,003,073 and Stadium Revenue £3,334,123).
• 2012/13- Turnover- £9,903,442 (Key segments specific to us- Matchday Revenue £1,132,457, Season Ticket Revenue £1,960,641 and Stadium Revenue £1,925,755).
• 2013/14- Turnover- £6,081,107 (Key segments specific to us- Matchday Revenue £1,094,332, Season Ticket Revenue £1,535,792 and Stadium Revenue £1,567,824).
• 2014/15- Turnover- £7,695,219 (Key segments specific to us- Matchday Revenue £2,084,106, Season Ticket Revenue £1,588,429 and Stadium Revenue £2,035,514).
• 2015/16- Turnover- £14,175,396 (Key segments specific to us- Matchday Revenue £1,193,719, Season Ticket Revenue £2,653,544 and Other Commercial and Retail Income £4,800,296).
• 2016/17- Turnover- £21,248,335 (Key segments specific to us- Matchday Revenue £2,079,485, Season Ticket Revenue £2,940,921 and Other Commercial and Retail Income £8,521,347).
• 2017/18- Turnover- £25,062,080 (Key segments specific to us- Matchday Revenue £3,428,485, Season Ticket Revenue £3,216,714 and Other Commercial and Retail Income £10,382,767).

 

Slightly off topic, but interesting to note that the last set of figures show matchday revenue in advance of season ticket revenue, are the POTD fans going to assume more importance than season ticket holders in years to come ? (in financial terms, as the bean counters will surely be noticing trends like this).

[1960maaan]

7 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Five midfielders and one up top? No problems with that provided the main striker gets strong support in attacking phases and the centre is filled during midfield phases IMO.

And there is much of the problem. While we played one up during our best football last year, all the midfield bust a gut to support and go beyond Reid. The way we play it at the moment is Fam up on his own and the rest constantly stay behind him. 

7 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I'd like to see both O'Dowda and Eliasson starting for one, would give the opposition especially when we're at home something to worry about!

With us playing more like a midfield 3 Saturday, that would be good to see. As long as they were given licence to get forward and make a 3 when in possession. I'm guessing Rotherham will sit in a bit, we will probably need to use the whole width of the pitch to try and stretch them.

[Trueredsupporter]

4 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

There are no simple reasons as to why- for a start the club had a lot less money (go check BCFC Holdings) and this was for a variety of reasons for most of these- plus FFP is ever shifting.

Go read from 2011/12 to 2017/18 the BCFC Holdings Accounts, especially splits by income and the answer will be somewhere in there. LJ and his bigger budget is partly at least IMO a matter of good timing and happy coincidence. Who is to say that any of those 3 wouldn't have had quite a bit more to spend if they had been in charge the last 2 and a half seasons in particular.

 you are confirming LJ had more money to spend than previous managers. Its another poster you should be aiming your posts at.

[Olé]

7 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Fair enough, that’s your opinion. I think the atmosphere at the Gate is consistently flat and quiet because the crowd is fed up of totally boring, inept performances....we haven’t won at home for over two months....I think your ‘agendas’ comment is a bit paranoid...people are just fed up of watching tepid, boring football with little threat of scoring.....that’s all....

Exactly this, and if I may say so, you nailed it quite calmly and even-handedly in the face of a deliberately provocative argument that was worthy of less - the OP was passive-agression in written form, making a case by throwing all the toys out of the pram.

To say in the original post that Ashton Gate is soulless with no atmosphere and that this is the fault of fans being unfair to LJ is possibly the most bizarre comment I have ever read on here. You can argue the toss about the tone on OTIB but at Ashton Gate?

That is the response from your supporter-base to your football. It's not a view, it's not negativity. Being silent is not an agenda it is a response. Only one man can make Ashton Gate less soulless. In most cases the fans that applaud him away, are silent at AG.

Why is that? Because fair minded, positive fans are taken in by a poisonous atmosphere at AG? Seriously? The buzz around the ground at kick off is anything but poison but evidence suggests even people looking for positives then find little to cheer about.

Putting that on some "LJ out" agenda is rank hypocrisy. If LJ was beyond reproach he would be producing football that gets the crowd going at Ashton Gate, I'll say it again, why is it that people (like me) who cheer his resilience away, fall silent back at home?

By bringing the atmosphere at Ashton Gate into the discussion, I think the mental gymnastics in the OP's complex back-handed argument have inadvertently exposed that there IS an issue with LJ and it is (and remains) entirely one of the man's own making.

 

Incidentally, if the OPs rant is ultimately about Twitter then quite frankly this didn't need a debate, anyone who thinks Twitter is a barometer of anything needs their head looking at, but if it's too negative, you can tweet positive stuff, that's how it works right?

[Olé]

7 hours ago, reddoh said:

If he had laughed and said no fooking chance to Europe, no chance of the premier league would people have excepted that ?

I do get the point you're making but he could simply have said "Well first things first, we've got to get a team playing good football and competing at this level and then see where it takes us". Yes it's deflection, but it's the right tone most managers would set.

And this is what is frustrating about LJ. He is so precise and bold about his long-term prospects, and yet so vague and blustering about the present when put on the spot about inconsistencies or issues in his approach. We've all worked with people like this.

He is trying to offset his limitations in the present with massive self-confidence about the future. It's wonderful he's ambitious but we're at risk of being in bluffer territory. Trying to run before he's walked - trying to play Man City football with Bristol City players.

[Cowshed]

4 minutes ago, Olé said:

I do get the point you're making but he could simply have said "Well first things first, we've got to get a team playing good football and competing at this level and then see where it takes us". Yes it's deflection, but it's the right tone most managers would set.

And this is what is frustrating about LJ. He is so precise and bold about his long-term prospects, and yet so vague and blustering about the present when put on the spot about inconsistencies or issues in his approach. We've all worked with people like this.

He is trying to offset his limitations in the present with massive self-confidence about the future. It's wonderful he's ambitious but we're at risk of being in bluffer territory. Trying to run before he's walked - trying to play Man City football with Bristol City players.

 There is the odd similarity but Mr Johnson clearly is not trying to play Man City football with Bristol City players. 

[Harry]

8 hours ago, Ska Junkie said:

Question ( well 2 actually), I appreciate Sl is ultimately LJ's boss but wouldn't LJ report to old smarm Ashton?

Secondly, what does Ashton actually do to warrant his large salary? I really don't know. 

The answer to your first question is Yes. LJ reports into MA. 

The answer to your second question is ...well.....ummm....err...um, absolutely no ******* idea. 

[Son of Fred]

10 hours ago, Midlands Robin said:

When I was in the Navy, I left with the rank of Chief. 

If that's any help?

Chief 'cook & bottle washer??....

[Robbored]

8 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

...... @Robbored - your reaction to this post and the description below your avatar, where you admit to being a pantomime clown and a troll, just about sum you up....you can’t debate a simple point....you say SL is a ‘tough and demanding’ football boss.....I disagreed and gave examples of clubs who clearly do have tough and demanding bosses and ask for your opinion on that .....and you predictably act in a childish way and offer zero in terms of a balanced response to add to the debate, preferring to add ‘laughing’ emojis instead of opinion...pantomime clown and troll...you’d better believe it....

I already responded BS4.........perhaps it’s you who can’t debate?