Norwich City v Bristol City Match Day 32

[And Its Smith]

15 minutes ago, wendyredredrobin said:

Not true, some of his substitutions of late have been great and won us the game or saved us a point.  I'm afraid he f**ked up today and everyone could see it from the first 10 or 15 minutes.

I hope he tells us why he kept BW on when he was having such a nightmare.

No disrespect to Bailey, he's a decent CB being played our of position.

Show me your big praises of LJ when we win then 

[Roger Red Hat]

2 hours ago, cityexile said:

This is being hyper critical, but wonder if Frankie will be a little disappointed by their third? No compliant about the result, but Frankie has always had a relative weakspot on shots along the ground from 20 yards or so. Maybe I am being a bit unfair.

I agree. Frankie has a weakness in that area. It's also one of the reasons I think Nicki is a better 'keeper. I haven't seen the goal, so if that was the case here I couldn't possibly say.

[steviestevieneville]

12 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Why do suppose that he did that?  Hunt has been injured and so has Pisano. Both not fully recovered so what options did LJ have?      

 

To be fair , Pisano is fit. If he’s not then why is he on the bench

[TonyTonyTony]

Meh. Ultra critical posts when we lose as always

 

[Robbored]

4 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

To be fair , Pisano is fit. If he’s not then why is he on the bench

Because he’s not fit enough for 90 mins but possibly fit enough for a cameo appearance. It would be reckless to play a bloke not 100% fit. High chances of worsening the injury.

[Silvio Dante]

7 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Obviously Pisano or Hunt weren’t  match fit - why else would LJ play BW at right back?     

Kelly is versatile at left back or CB but not right back.

Tbf, Robbo, whether deliberately or in an alcohol haze, you’re having a mare here.

BW historically and particularly last season played a lot at RB. I’m happy to accept Hunts not fit but have to believe Pisano is - last game v Blackburn and no issues since. We have other defenders (albeit not RB) in Baker, Kelly, so if Pisano not fit, wouldn’t be on bench.

LJ chose to pick BW. When BW played RB (well) last year, Josh was in front of him with a lot of cover. That’s not Andi’s game, hence why BW was exposed.

IMO, LJ played BW as he believes (correctly) he’s a better pure defender than Pisano. To state otherwise kind of feels like trolling when you see the evidence..

[NorwichGeezer]

2 hours ago, The Original OTIB said:

Irritating that Mclean, who's hardly started and not scored chips in with 2! + one from a bit part defender. Shows that Norwich have momentum and will be in the Premier League next season.

A bit of context might be useful here.

Ben Godfrey the 21 year old 'bit part defender' has started 15 games in a row for a us at centre back, keeping two current internationals out of the side.... one that we signed for about £5m from Wolfsburg when in the Premier League (Timm Klose and Grant Hanley). We signed him as an 18 year old from York City for £1m at the same time we signed an 18 year old called James Maddison from Coventry. In pre-season friendlies and for the first half of the season mostly in the U23's he has slowly been converted from a box-to-box midfielder to a centre back. Now I'd be willing to bet a weeks wages on him becoming an England international.... he's strong, extremely quick and can ping balls about like Rio Ferdinand. Once he becomes more dominant in the air he'll be going to the top.

It is true that Kenny McLean has hardly started this season, its probably also true that if we had both Vrancic and Leitner fit he'd struggle to get into our first XI, but he was signed in the summer, did his ankle ligaments in August, had surgery, had some complications with his recovery, had surgery again in October and then made his comeback in January..... so I wouldn't judge him too harshly based on how many games he has played this season. 

Really like this Bristol City side though, I thought you were really good in the last fixture and was surprised to see that your fans were frustrated with Lee Johnson at the time. When looking at teams we've played twice this season I think the only teams to be as good as you lot against us are West Brom and Sheffield United. Leeds did tank us at the start of the season, but we then did the same to them at their place and they looked poor second time out. 

Will be rooting for you lot in the play-offs if you are in them, as long as we aren't in them of course! 

[Vincent Vega]

55 minutes ago, wendyredredrobin said:

Mistake 1 - Playing BW at RB

Mistake 2 - Not subbing BW after 30 mins

Mistake 3 - Not subbing BW at HT

Mistake 4 - Taking off DaSilva

Mistake 5 - Not bringing on Eliasson when we needed a goal.

Mistake 6 - standing off and giving Norwich far too much room around the edge of our box.

If it had not been for the above, then we would have come away with a point today, maybe even 3.

Adds even more importance to Tuesday night now as if we don't get 3 points, Brum will be right up behind us and we will probably be 7th in the league and have lost a lot of ground on the top 5.

 

What a state to get in.

[Jerseybean]

Wanted to refect on today’s game before commenting and also wanted to do so before looking at others opinions on here.

So IMO a very good game in which both teams played well and were a credit to themselves and the Championship. 

We were the better team in the first half, they were a much better and different team in the second half. In fact they were the most complete team I’ve seen in the Championship this season in the second half.

Thought we could have defended better for all of their goals. Having said  that I thought overall  each and every City player played well. 

Based on today they will go up automatically and we are certainly good enough for a play-off place.

We now need to show a brilliant reaction on Tuesday and continue to play the way we did today, especially in the opening 45 minutes, for the rest of the season. 

 

 

[Dr Balls]

5 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

Tbf, Robbo, whether deliberately or in an alcohol haze, you’re having a mare here.

BW historically and particularly last season played a lot at RB. I’m happy to accept Hunts not fit but have to believe Pisano is - last game v Blackburn and no issues since. We have other defenders (albeit not RB) in Baker, Kelly, so if Pisano not fit, wouldn’t be on bench.

LJ chose to pick BW. When BW played RB (well) last year, Josh was in front of him with a lot of cover. That’s not Andi’s game, hence why BW was exposed.

IMO, LJ played BW as he believes (correctly) he’s a better pure defender than Pisano. To state otherwise kind of feels like trolling when you see the evidence..

I think your being a bit unfair on Weimann. He tracks back and helps, but I agree he's not as covering as Brownhill. 

Don't get me wrong, Bailey Wright is a decent defender, but he's a centre back. As a right back, he is always going to be exposed by pace in a way that neither Hunt not Pisano are. If LJ can't see that then I would be worried about what game he's watching.

And what would really worry me would be LJ playing Wright just because he's club captain and has to be fitted in somewhere. For the sake of the team, he doesn't have to be. He is now a back up player behind Webster & Kalas, just like Baker. We don't have to play him -unless of course it's in his contract or he has something on LJ!!

[downendcity]

33 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Why do suppose that he did that?  Hunt has been injured and so has Pisano. Both not fully recovered so what options did LJ have?      

 

Not so long ago he would have played Brownhill at RB!

[robin_unreliant]

3 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

LJ chose to pick BW. When BW played RB (well) last year, Josh was in front of him with a lot of cover. That’s not Andi’s game, hence why BW was exposed.

IMO, LJ played BW as he believes (correctly) he’s a better pure defender than Pisano. To state otherwise kind of feels like trolling when you see the evidence..

I do think BW is a solid defender. If we don't go up and can't afford Kalas I would be comfortable with him and AW as a pairing.

However he is suspect defending against pace at RB imo. Pisano would be my choice at RB IF he's fit. Whether he was today we won't know. 

I do worry that LJ is putting BW in because he is captain, rather than objectively deciding the best player we have available as RB. I can understand why he wants a player he sees as a 'leader' out there, and why he wants to make BW feel wanted. However, it feels a bit like he is deliberately overlooking his weaknesses in that position.

Overall LJ has been doing a great job. Don't see why we can't comment on things he could do better though. That's what he's doing when asked about the team performance so it seems fair enough to me.

[steviestevieneville]

9 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Because he’s not fit enough for 90 mins but possibly fit enough for a cameo appearance. It would be reckless to play a bloke not 100% fit. High chances of worsening the injury.

Really ? Well he played fine lately and only rested through illness. So he is fit .

as I said earlier LJ doesn’t deserve critism at all but we are allowed opinion if we think the team could be strengthened. 

So imho. Pisano for wright and also . 

Ive never been Patos biggest fan. Yes he scored a good goal but. 

How many fuckng  times , home and away when he has a easy give and go on , he tries to take players on and lose the ball . 

It was patos fault for their equaliser . We had the ball on the edge of their box with 2-3 passes on but no. I’ll try to take 2 players on.  

[RumRed]

2 hours ago, The Original OTIB said:

Good. Get a new perspective. Why one of our 3 coaches does not routinely sit in the stands is utterly beyond me.

At Worthing the manager sits in the stands on the half way line, just in front of me.  Second half he’s in the dugout.

 

[Robbored]

2 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

Ive never been Patos biggest fan. Yes he scored a good goal but. 

How many fuckng  times , home and away when he has a easy give and go on , he tries to take players on and lose the ball . 

It was patos fault for their equaliser . We had the ball on the edge of their box with 2-3 passes on but no. I’ll try to take 2 players on.  

I, and plenty of other fans can’t see what Pato brings to the team but obviously LJ considers him to be an integral part of his matchday squad - probablly because Pato understands the way in which LJ wants the team to play.

To me Pato is too lightweight and consequently doesn’t have the upper body strength to hold off defenders but, that said he does have an occasional trick in him and that ability LJ clearly admires..........

[joenaldo]

Maybe Pisano rested for tuesday and maybe even elliason?

[Offside]

No disgrace today losing there, but a frustrating defeat because it sounded like we should have got something from the game. 

Time to re-group, learn from what went wrong today and smash the Brummies on Tuesday.

 

[Pippintogg]

I thought it was a good game but all their goals were down to poor defending. For their first we have 9 players in the box, including Frankie, and 4 Norwich players. Bailey Wright dives in and misses his tackle, and McLean is unmarked. Godfrey's goal we have 9 players in the box, including Frankie, and 5 Norwich players. Who's first to the ball? Godfrey. Before that it was pinball defending. McLean's second. 6 in the box, including Frankie, and 2 Norwich. Outside the box 4 reds and 2 yellows. We have 10 players in or around the box and he still scores. Neither O'Dowda or Pack get in a challenge and I feel Frankie's position was poor. Norwich are a good side and we played well for the majority of the game but poor defending against a free scoring side and we were punished. Most of their threat came down their left hand side, targeting Bailey Wright. It was clearly a game plan to attack him with the pace a trickery of Onel Hernández . We could have had all 3 points. Also set pieces were woeful again. Not sure what they do in training. That having been said we still have a shout at the playoffs especially given our run in against sides around us. Roll on Tuesday and lets bag a few against the blues. 

[Northern Red]

Having just seen the goals, anyone blaming Frankie for the 3rd is looking for reasons to have a pop at him.

[Wrongagain]

3 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

He has just said that he thought we may as well go for it even if we conceded again.

I think he was conscious of the number of times Norwich have scored late in their games and wanted to give us some freshness and energy.

 

Following up and having watched quest I’m wondering how we would have done if Nikki were between the sticks, wtf does Frankie not position himself better?

[DT The Optimist]

1 hour ago, Jerseybean said:

Wanted to refect on today’s game before commenting and also wanted to do so before looking at others opinions on here.

So IMO a very good game in which both teams played well and were a credit to themselves and the Championship. 

We were the better team in the first half, they were a much better and different team in the second half. In fact they were the most complete team I’ve seen in the Championship this season in the second half.

Thought we could have defended better for all of their goals. Having said  that I thought overall  each and every City player played well. 

Based on today they will go up automatically and we are certainly good enough for a play-off place.

We now need to show a brilliant reaction on Tuesday and continue to play the way we did today, especially in the opening 45 minutes, for the rest of the season. 

 

 

I agree.  Was at game and now at sons near by.  I said to my son at half time I really fancied us to score again in second half and fancied us for all 3 points if game continued in same vein  as first half.

the second half was like chalk and cheese. Thought Norwich really upped it and won midfield and all second balls and we were on back foot  for most of that 45 and apart from  a Webster header never really looked like getting  a third  Sadly 3 points went where they belonged. However that first half we were good and LJ simply had to get us playing like that for 90 mins.  

The pray offs are realistic. Simply got to apply our game. 

[wendyredredrobin]

1 hour ago, joenaldo said:

Maybe Pisano rested for tuesday and maybe even elliason?

May have a point, but it was clear from the off that we were being done down our right side and Eros wouldn't have stood for it.  He would have put a stop to it fairly and if that didn't work, he has a few tricks up his sleeve.

Unless Eros wasn't fit, I can't understand why he did not start or come on when it was clear that Bailey was not coping today. We knew that there would be a threat in that area.

[DT The Optimist]

48 minutes ago, wendyredredrobin said:

May have a point, but it was clear from the off that we were being done down our right side and Eros wouldn't have stood for it.  He would have put a stop to it fairly and if that didn't work, he has a few tricks up his sleeve.

Unless Eros wasn't fit, I can't understand why he did not start or come on when it was clear that Bailey was not coping today. We knew that there would be a threat in that area.

BW is a great centre back and an ok  full back. Others have pointed out perhaps Pisano not 100% but then why put him on bench.  Mind you who ever had played today I suspect we would still have come off second best when Norwich upped the game.  

[chinapig]

6 hours ago, DT The Optimist said:

BW is a great centre back and an ok  full back. Others have pointed out perhaps Pisano not 100% but then why put him on bench.  Mind you who ever had played today I suspect we would still have come off second best when Norwich upped the game.  

What we needed was a fit Jack Hunt. I'm not convinced Eros would have coped much better than Bailey against the speed of their attacks. 

[Major Isewater]

12 hours ago, Dr Balls said:

I think your being a bit unfair on Weimann. He tracks back and helps, but I agree he's not as covering as Brownhill. 

Don't get me wrong, Bailey Wright is a decent defender, but he's a centre back. As a right back, he is always going to be exposed by pace in a way that neither Hunt not Pisano are. If LJ can't see that then I would be worried about what game he's watching.

And what would really worry me would be LJ playing Wright just because he's club captain and has to be fitted in somewhere. For the sake of the team, he doesn't have to be. He is now a back up player behind Webster & Kalas, just like Baker. We don't have to play him -unless of course it's in his contract or he has something on LJ!!

To be fair to BW , any full back in the world would struggle against the pace and control of their winger , the lad was outstanding.

Poor old Bails . 

[pillred]

17 hours ago, RedDave said:

People don’t like it when I call out fans but there are certainly a fair few posters who are very quick to lay blame at Johnson’s door but never post credit to him when we win. Shame really 

That's life, it happens wherever you are, when I was working I could go weeks without making a mistake boss never said anything, one small error and he would be the first to go on about it, that's just how it is.

[pillred]

16 hours ago, NorwichGeezer said:

A bit of context might be useful here.

Ben Godfrey the 21 year old 'bit part defender' has started 15 games in a row for a us at centre back, keeping two current internationals out of the side.... one that we signed for about £5m from Wolfsburg when in the Premier League (Timm Klose and Grant Hanley). We signed him as an 18 year old from York City for £1m at the same time we signed an 18 year old called James Maddison from Coventry. In pre-season friendlies and for the first half of the season mostly in the U23's he has slowly been converted from a box-to-box midfielder to a centre back. Now I'd be willing to bet a weeks wages on him becoming an England international.... he's strong, extremely quick and can ping balls about like Rio Ferdinand. Once he becomes more dominant in the air he'll be going to the top.

It is true that Kenny McLean has hardly started this season, its probably also true that if we had both Vrancic and Leitner fit he'd struggle to get into our first XI, but he was signed in the summer, did his ankle ligaments in August, had surgery, had some complications with his recovery, had surgery again in October and then made his comeback in January..... so I wouldn't judge him too harshly based on how many games he has played this season. 

Really like this Bristol City side though, I thought you were really good in the last fixture and was surprised to see that your fans were frustrated with Lee Johnson at the time. When looking at teams we've played twice this season I think the only teams to be as good as you lot against us are West Brom and Sheffield United. Leeds did tank us at the start of the season, but we then did the same to them at their place and they looked poor second time out. 

Will be rooting for you lot in the play-offs if you are in them, as long as we aren't in them of course! 

you won't be.

[And Its Smith]

9 minutes ago, pillred said:

That's life, it happens wherever you are, when I was working I could go weeks without making a mistake boss never said anything, one small error and he would be the first to go on about it, that's just how it is.

Well your boss was a ******** then 

[Davefevs]

17 hours ago, NorwichGeezer said:

A bit of context might be useful here.

Ben Godfrey the 21 year old 'bit part defender' has started 15 games in a row for a us at centre back, keeping two current internationals out of the side.... one that we signed for about £5m from Wolfsburg when in the Premier League (Timm Klose and Grant Hanley). We signed him as an 18 year old from York City for £1m at the same time we signed an 18 year old called James Maddison from Coventry. In pre-season friendlies and for the first half of the season mostly in the U23's he has slowly been converted from a box-to-box midfielder to a centre back. Now I'd be willing to bet a weeks wages on him becoming an England international.... he's strong, extremely quick and can ping balls about like Rio Ferdinand. Once he becomes more dominant in the air he'll be going to the top.

It is true that Kenny McLean has hardly started this season, its probably also true that if we had both Vrancic and Leitner fit he'd struggle to get into our first XI, but he was signed in the summer, did his ankle ligaments in August, had surgery, had some complications with his recovery, had surgery again in October and then made his comeback in January..... so I wouldn't judge him too harshly based on how many games he has played this season. 

Really like this Bristol City side though, I thought you were really good in the last fixture and was surprised to see that your fans were frustrated with Lee Johnson at the time. When looking at teams we've played twice this season I think the only teams to be as good as you lot against us are West Brom and Sheffield United. Leeds did tank us at the start of the season, but we then did the same to them at their place and they looked poor second time out. 

Will be rooting for you lot in the play-offs if you are in them, as long as we aren't in them of course! 

Thanks for the info, and congrats on the three points.

Young (Private!!) Godfrey might have to get past Adam Webster for that England cap 

A few thoughts on general comments from everyone.

Fielding: not at fault for any of the 3 goals imho.  To blame him for the 3rd is crazy.  Good volley from McLean.

Wright: didn’t have a good game, that is for all to see, but he had a cracking game at Wolves and has generally done perfectly ok since his return. If anything I thought Weimann didn’t provide the normal level of cover he usually does in front of the full-back.  I do feel that Pisano is the player who perhaps has been unfairly de-selected on a couple of occasions this season, after being ‘rested’.  Someone comes in for the rested Pisano, but Pisano not restored to the team, like others have.  That is my one small smidge of criticism.

Johnson: he may have got a few things wrong yesterday, but I think ultimately the players let him down a bit.  They needed to take the sting out of the game.  We started the second half (first 5) quite well, but once Norwich got ontop, we seemed to have no answer.  We lost a bit of defensive dicipline and shape.  I understand why LJ went for 3-sub revolution, but I think we just needed the odd tweak.  Maybe Pisano for Wright was a more simple change first of all, or even just get men behind the ball and weather the storm.

[Canary_Yellow]

I’m back!

 

The vast majority of what I’ve read on here is very fair (a slightly barking mad match report aside ). 

 

I thought it was a really good game between two good sides. Both will feel that the oppositions goals were avoidable, but I think in both cases that does a disservice to the opposition.

 

For me, where you went wrong was the tactics in the second half. Seemed to me the plan was to protect what you had and try and get a third on the break. Logical given the strength of your defence, but once we pin a team in we’re relentless and we’re pretty decent at breaking through the lines. I made a comment midweek that I can’t see many teams getting a shit house 1-0 win against us (famous last words!).

 

i think you needed to be a bit braver and go for it. It was clear in my mind at 2-1 that the next goal would be decisive. I don’t mean go gung ho, just keep pressing up the pitch and put us under more pressure. The tactics of containment and counter were right, just thought you focussed on the containment bit a little too much.

 

anyway, as I said yesterday, I thought you were the best side we’d played in the last 6 months or so other than sheffield United.

 

yesterday was one of those days where with some luck you could have won; I didn’t think it was a pen (still don’t) but had it been given...or had you got a breakaway and got the third to make it 3-1 that would have been that....

 

good of luck rest of the season, i’ll be rooting for you. Us, Sheffield United and you would be my choice. I don’t like Sheffield United but makes a change from the usual suspects and you’ve got to respect what wilder is doing there.