Did the players let us down last night?

[Allwaysred]

36 minutes ago, Harry said:

I personally have not defended LJ in this thread. The question though was “are the players to blame” and in my opinion last night they were. 
In answer to your other erratic points :  
Kalas - isn’t shit, but hasn’t been fit all season. 
Baker - isn’t shit, is our best CB, but is regularly a let-down with his fitness. 
Weimann - Isn’t shit, but isn’t of Prem quality as you mention. He’s a runner, a heads down player with little true quality, but isn’t shit as you say. But he was last night. 
Eliasson - isn’t shit, but he was last night. 
JD - isn’t shit, but hasn’t been fit all season. 
Williams - is shit, and was last night. 
Massengo - isn’t shit, but isn’t experienced either. And didn’t play last night. 
Nagy - isn’t shit, but isn’t yet up to the speed of English football, isn’t fit, and was shit last night. 
Smith - isn’t shit, but hasn’t been fit for a year. 
 

LJ - isn’t shit, has plenty to do to put things right, but wasn’t as shit last night as the players. 

I’m neither pro LJ not anti LJ at the moment Dave. I’m not passing the buck for him. He’s got plenty to prove to turn this form around. But performances by many of the players recently have been poor. Last night in particular. 
Baker going off injured forces one sub. Thereby leaving a restriction to change the game too early. Use 2 more subs early and potentially have extra time? Or have confidence that players who should do better might actually do better? 
Last night was not Lj’s fault. But I’m also not going to defend him to the hilt - he’s making mistakes, but he’s not fully at fault. 

Do you really think those are the tactics LJ set his team out to do. Pass it sideways, sideways and then lose it? 
Perhaps there were too many players off their game and there were no passing options, or if there were, they were poorly executed. 
What I saw was a lack of movement, a lack of mental awareness and a lack of quality. 
We know our players DO have these things in their lockers, but they didn’t bring them last night. 

Yes, LJ absolutely carries the can in the end. No one is Teflon coating him. There is fair criticism from many quarters, but there’s also somewhat extreme views to get him out when he isn’t at that point for many yet. 
Plenty to prove, certainly not beyond criticism, but the criticism ought to be fair, and certainly, in view of the thread title, the players should bear the main bulk of the responsibility last night. 
You mention that he persists with Fam despite him missing lots of chances. Who should he play up top then? He doesn’t have too many options up there to be fair. He tried Weimann up there at West Brom away and we looked as poor as I’ve seen. No other options really is there. 

You ask why the guy had so much room for that strike. 
Josh Brownhill. 
When the ball goes back to Pierre, Josh is in a decent position, able to screen the CB’s, closing off any penetration through the middle. 
But he decides to go on a wander and chase another bloke out wide to the right. 
He leaves behind a huge hole, easily exploited by a centre back, playing a 1-2 and then a wonder strike. 
Whilst this 1-2 is occurring, Josh watches it unfold and bounces up and down a couple of times. No nous or desire whatsoever to close down the massive gap infront of our CB’s that he himself was responsible for. 
This wasn’t a managerial tactic. Brownhill had himself in a good position and vacated it to chase what he thought was his man rather than be aware of the game situation and what was around and behind him. I’m sure LJ didn’t tell him to do that. It was a player switching off, simple as that. 
You are correct - our midfield is very, very, very weak. 

I can’t see what hugely confusing tactics LJ was asking of his players last night. Their inability to move and pass was at fault, I don’t think LJ’s tactics were “don’t move about and be shit in everything you do”. Basics. 

He’s been our most outstanding performer this season and has literally kept us in most games. 
Whether he should’ve got across a bit quicker is fair. And you go on to state that Moore & Williams would’ve expected him to save it, well Bentley wouldn’t have been expecting a centre back to shoot from 30 yards with no one attempting to block it. I’m sure he wasn’t correctly set for it as he was not anticipating a shot. 
However, at the moment Bentley escapes all criticism for me as he’s been our player of the season by a country mile. 
He’s the only one who has earned any slack. 

This isn't new though not closing down it's happened for ages Sunderland at home Derby away Preston away Barnsley away all from different seasons under LJ the list goes on. All basic mistakes and still happening. How many home games this season have we all seen us get deeper and deeper and predictable and get found out?? Too many. Why?? Because that's how LJ has set them up and the players don't believe in it. Hence why we've gone through 60 players in that time. Bottom line it's LJ players he's bought and it's his philosophy DNA what ever and the players aren't responding they simply don't believe init and he's out of ideas to change another slide. 

[Redsi2]

Im still angry from last night. I for one will find it extremely difficult standing up and applauding the players when they come out on Saturday after yesterday. I think I will just have to stay in my seat and enjoy my Clarks pie.

[CityCiderEd]

57 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

WBA have used two formations this season.

Bristol City seven.

That's is drastically different.

Just looked at LJ's stats when he was manager at Barnsley and in 42 games he used 10 different formations................

[Allwaysred]

4 minutes ago, CityCiderEd said:

Just looked at LJ's stats when he was manager at Barnsley and in 42 games he used 10 different formations................

Exactly why he can't get the basics right.

[Guest]

When we play well or win games I give all the credit to Johnson.

When we are play terrible I blame Johnson.

He buys the players. He coaches them. He picks the tactics, the team. It's his responsibility.

If it were the players fault then whoever the manager is would make no difference. As it's the players fault, not the manager. Which is obviously not true.

A different manager, let's say Bielsa would set us up completely differently to how LJ does, so we'd play completely differently to what we see every week.

It would not even be close to what we are seeing at the moment. It's 100% down to LJ.

I understand he has been unfortunate with Afobe. We should have brought in another.

But with what we have got he has to adapt. He is not really doing that. He keeps making the same mistakes. We can see he is making mistakes by all the changes mid game, often at half time or early second half he makes.

[Chivs]

4 hours ago, spudski said:

Anti 'Dave'? Behave yourself...got no problem with Dave...I agree with most of his posts...top bloke.

As for Fammy...he is totally inconsistent and lacks correct movement. One game unplayable...5 like a rank amateur.

I'm not anti Fammy...I like him and his effort and heart. But he lacks the consistency and natural intelligence of a forwards movement.

So wind her neck in and read my posts correctly with the intention they are meant.

I'm not anti anyone FFS...idiot

Dave is the name some idiots on here give to Diedhiou.  It's nothing to do with any individual on here.  I'm lumping you in with those idiots.

Perhaps you'd like to read my post and state how high up the "goals scored" table you'd like us to be before you'd accept our strikers as perhaps not the problem.

As to the highlighted bit, I've just looked up the word "ironic" in the dictionary....

 

[StGeorge]

5 hours ago, grifty said:

Still, I'll be there to enjoy the ride whether its good or bad.

Thing is,  I'm  not enjoying the ride at the moment, good or bad...

 

[Cowshed]

45 minutes ago, CityCiderEd said:

Just looked at LJ's stats when he was manager at Barnsley and in 42 games he used 10 different formations................

I've wondered if 4-3-3 will appear at some point to make it an eight this season. I simply thought the statement odd. Football teams differ significantly tactically in the championship. 

[Superjack]

7 hours ago, spudski said:

We created enough chances to win the game.

Problem is, if you've got a forward who can't hit a barn door from a few yards you aren't going to win games. You can only create so many chances.

It's purely down to consistency of quality imo...not the tactics. Too many players have quality on their day, but their day isn't consistent enough.

Yesterday we created the chances and our forward messed em up. Score them and we win easily.

Other days we don't create chances because of the total lack of movement into the correct areas in the final third.

All these problems of consistent inconsistency have a knock on effect and the pressure builds.

Nothing wrong with LJs tactics...the problem is recruiting players that aren't up to getting the job done on a consistent basis.

Too many rough diamonds that need developing.

Our front line needs moving on and replacing imo...all effort and heart but not enough quality where it matters.

"Nothing wrong with LJ's tactics".

And you put yourself forward as an authority on football here.

I'm no authority, but even I can tell that there is nothing right with Johnson's tactics. If you can even call them that.

[Up The City!]

5 hours ago, spudski said:

You can see when you watch what they are trying to do.

The problem is doing it well on a regular basis. The players don't.

I'm glad you watch and you can see what they are trying to do. I also watch, I watch quite intently and yet for the life of me I cant see what they are trying to do other than playing it around the back and trying not to lose. So please do enlighten us all what we are trying to do? What you can see that no one but yourself can see. Thanks in advance.

[Monkeh]

6 hours ago, Cowshed said:

I've wondered if 4-3-3 will appear at some point to make it an eight this season. I simply thought the statement odd. Football teams differ significantly tactically in the championship. 

It’s been posted on here for a while now so yea it will

[Tipps69]

11 hours ago, spudski said:

We created enough chances to win the game.

Problem is, if you've got a forward who can't hit a barn door from a few yards you aren't going to win games. You can only create so many chances.

It's purely down to consistency of quality imo...not the tactics. Too many players have quality on their day, but their day isn't consistent enough.

Yesterday we created the chances and our forward messed em up. Score them and we win easily.

Other days we don't create chances because of the total lack of movement into the correct areas in the final third.

All these problems of consistent inconsistency have a knock on effect and the pressure builds.

Nothing wrong with LJs tactics...the problem is recruiting players that aren't up to getting the job done on a consistent basis.

Too many rough diamonds that need developing.

Our front line needs moving on and replacing imo...all effort and heart but not enough quality where it matters.

Let’s not just put the blame at Diedhiou’s door, Weimann has supposedly been playing as a striker for months as well & how many goals has he scored or how many opportunities is he in a position to get on the end of each game?

For me, the intensity has gone, we have a keeper that can distribute a ball quickly & yet 99% of the time the ball is rolled to our 2 least natural ball players, who then in turn slow play down further while they play back & forth to each other across the penalty area while the opposition have all got back into position while they await our eventual long punt forward to Diedhiou who is then left to fight for the ball against 2,3 or 4 defenders on his own!

We have become far too predictable, the opposition don’t have to worry about us catching them on the break because we simply don’t play quick enough from any situation, be that from Bentley’s hands, a throw-in or a quickly taken free-kick! There were numerous times against Shrewsbury (in particular) that Diedhiou & Eliasson had made runs while the ball is being fannied about with between Williams & Baker & they were left frustrated because the ball simply never came & after making those runs a few times each, it’s easy to become despondent as you wonder what the point is in making these runs, knowing the ball is never coming!!

Having a pass completion percentage of 90%+ is pointless is if it’s done at 1mph on the edge of our own area while giving us possession stats because it’s simply not allowing us to create anything, Bentley very rarely gets the ball in his hands & sends somebody chasing a long ball over the top while the oppositions defence is unorganised, we’ve played with 4 attackers in recent months & yet they are stood waiting for something to get their teeth into, now is the time to stop this playing out from the back where it takes 3 minutes & 30 passes before the ball gets to the halfway line & shock the opposition by putting the ball over the top. Don’t get me wrong, if we’re winning then by all means slow play down & keep possession but invariably this season, we haven’t been on the front foot enough to be leading at halftime or anywhere around there. We basically play to still be 0-0 at 70 minutes or hope that by some miracle we’ve managed to sneak a goal ourselves but invariably we go behind & only then do we show a bit of energy & emergency by actually getting the ball forward quicker.

We have gone from a team that was getting rave reviews for our footballing style 2 years ago to a side that is now boring even it’s own fans! Could that be because too much emphasis is put on stats, pass completion percentages & possession stats or is it because the players aren’t fit for purpose to do what’s needed & by that I mean having 2 non ball playing centre-halves who don’t have the ability on the ball to get an attack going? 

And moving on from where I’d say our problems stem from, you clearly don’t rate Diedhiou but given our options within our squad, who would you suggest could do a better job than him in the current situation? There is no one else, Semenyo was given an opportunity & showed no signs of wanting to play as a striker let alone any enthusiasm to be in the team. Weimann despite supposedly playing as a striker for the majority of time over recent months at the very least is very rarely actually ever seen trying to lead our front line & then that left Rodri! Who else is there to help take the pressure off of Diedhiou, to give him a rest, to help take some of the oppositions defenders away from him during a match? For the limited amount of chances we create during a match, his goal return isn’t bad & his overall performances haven’t been bad, I dread to think how much worse things could be if we didn’t have him up front for us right now!
 

[Tipps69]

10 hours ago, Numero Uno said:

I’ve watched it several times and it’s either poor foot movement or positioning or both meaning he never got close to a 25 yard daisy cutter with a full length dive.....

Williams and Moore in front of him had every right to expect that to be saved.

It wasn’t a ‘daisy cutter’ as you call it, the ball didn’t touch the grass until it hit the back of the net, so wasn’t slowed down by the heavy conditions. I wouldn’t blame Bentley for their goal, no one was probably expecting their centre half to come forward & hit a ball that has broken to him about 30 yards out first time, it’s probably about as likely as Baker or Williams doing similar for us & if they did, it would probably be more of a worry for the stewards in the car park than it would for the oppositions keeper!

It was a more than decent strike by someone that no one probably expected it from that came through a crowd of players. With a minute to go, he took a gamble & it paid off handsomely for him, fair play to the guy.

[Bristol Oil Services]

12 hours ago, wendyredredrobin said:

Either the players have no confidence in the tactics or there are no tactics.

I would think it is because the players are low on confidence, that the tactics appear to be lacking

 

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

Some great posts on this thread.  Perhaps the first time this season that I’ve felt that posters are really getting to the heart of what seems to be going wrong.  For me there are three issues (apart from our ludicrous injury record):  the obvious weakness up front; the lack of an incisive midfield player who can play the ‘killer pass’ (which should be Palmer, who has been a terrible let-down); and Johnson bowing to pressure to play Eliasson.  I do think the root of all of this is the Afobe injury, and since then we’ve been fire-fighting in attack.  Given that and other injuries, we’re actually doing way better than we should be, but we desperately need a striker or two now.

[Numero Uno]

28 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Some great posts on this thread.  Perhaps the first time this season that I’ve felt that posters are really getting to the heart of what seems to be going wrong.  For me there are three issues (apart from our ludicrous injury record):  the obvious weakness up front; the lack of an incisive midfield player who can play the ‘killer pass’ (which should be Palmer, who has been a terrible let-down); and Johnson bowing to pressure to play Eliasson.  I do think the root of all of this is the Afobe injury, and since then we’ve been fire-fighting in attack.  Given that and other injuries, we’re actually doing way better than we should be, but we desperately need a striker or two now.

If we didn’t play Eliasson where would our goals come from? Go back over the season so far.

[Monkeh]

2 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

If we didn’t play Eliasson where would our goals come from? Go back over the season so far.

The point he is trying to make is that Johnson doesn’t want to play him, hence why he was always on the bench

it was only until the fans became more vocal about it that Johnson finally gave him a regular start

[Numero Uno]

1 hour ago, Tipps69 said:

It wasn’t a ‘daisy cutter’ as you call it, the ball didn’t touch the grass until it hit the back of the net, so wasn’t slowed down by the heavy conditions. I wouldn’t blame Bentley for their goal, no one was probably expecting their centre half to come forward & hit a ball that has broken to him about 30 yards out first time, it’s probably about as likely as Baker or Williams doing similar for us & if they did, it would probably be more of a worry for the stewards in the car park than it would for the oppositions keeper!

It was a more than decent strike by someone that no one probably expected it from that came through a crowd of players. With a minute to go, he took a gamble & it paid off handsomely for him, fair play to the guy.

We can argue all day about this but what I won’t have is that a pro Keeper “wasn’t expecting” the shot!!! They aren’t paid £15k a week to get caught out by not expecting things like that to happen. The ball didnt “break” to the lad, he played an intentional 1-2 with his centre forward, more reason for the keeper to “expect” the shot.

[Spud55]

1 minute ago, Monkeh said:

The point he is trying to make is that Johnson doesn’t want to play him, hence why he was always on the bench

it was only until the fans became more vocal about it that Johnson finally gave him a regular start

But that then surely shows that the man is a bloody moron? No other team would not play the most creative player in the Championship, he should be building the team around him not trying  hard not to play him. 

[Monkeh]

2 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

We can argue all day about this but what I won’t have is that a pro Keeper “wasn’t expecting” the shot!!! They aren’t paid £15k a week to get caught out by not expecting things like that to happen. The ball didnt “break” to the lad, he played an intentional 1-2 with his centre forward, more reason for the keeper to “expect” the shot.

Which had 6 city players around him not challenging not tackling 

if you want to place the blame then the players who are responsible are Palmer and brownhill for not doing there ******* job, then Moore and Williams for not doing there

the keeper is blameless 

2 minutes ago, Spud55 said:

But that then surely shows that the man is a bloody moron? No other team would not play the most creative player in the Championship, he should be building the team around him not trying  hard not to play him. 

Yep 100% correct he is inept and needs to go

[Red-Robbo]

If you are a manager (or "Head Coach") you take responsibility for the performance of your team.

That's as true of football, as it is in any other enterprise.

You've put them in the positions they are in, given them instructions and the encouragement and tools they need to do the job.

The buck stops with you.

That's what leadership is all about. And management is leadership - or it should be!

[Numero Uno]

1 minute ago, Monkeh said:

The point he is trying to make is that Johnson doesn’t want to play him, hence why he was always on the bench

it was only until the fans became more vocal about it that Johnson finally gave him a regular start

I think the team should be built around the things that Elliasson brings as he’s without doubt our most “effective” player. For a Manager who trusts stats so much it’s weird that he doesn’t trust those of our most creative player!!

14 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

Which had 6 city players around him not challenging not tackling 

if you want to place the blame then the players who are responsible are Palmer and brownhill for not doing there ******* job, then Moore and Williams for not doing there

the keeper is blameless 

Yep 100% correct he is inept and needs to go

This is going nowhere, nobodies opinion will change!!

[Tipps69]

7 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

We can argue all day about this but what I won’t have is that a pro Keeper “wasn’t expecting” the shot!!! They aren’t paid £15k a week to get caught out by not expecting things like that to happen. The ball didnt “break” to the lad, he played an intentional 1-2 with his centre forward, more reason for the keeper to “expect” the shot.

You name me one centre half in world football, let alone league 1, that if looking to play a one-two with a striker, when on the centre circle at the time, you are then expecting the ball that has broken back to him (it wasn’t an intentional pass back to him, it broke under challenge / mis-control) at 30 yards out, you are expecting to smash one into the bottom corner through a crowd of at least 6 players.

The guy took a gamble & it paid off, for me it was a great strike & I’d love to see one of our midfielders try such a thing, let alone one of our centre-halves. I think credit needs to go to Pierre more so than criticism to Bentley but I guess that’s the joys of football, some people appreciate a decent piece of play while others can find someone to blame. In theory, every goal conceded can be blamed on someone, that’s why you’ll often hear a manager complain that conceded ‘bad goals’ from a defensive point of view while the other manager will praise the attacking play that produced their goal(s).

So while Bentley on £15k p/w should be saving that (in your eyes), De Gea on £350k p/w should surely never be conceding a goal EVER, especially while his defenders & midfielders in front of him are earning just as ridiculously high wages to do their job?!? And the likes of Neymar should never allow a keeper to save a shot or put one wide or over? It is sport, there are lots a variables & no one is perfect & if they were, they wouldn’t be playing for Bristol City in the 2nd tier of English football.

[Bristol Oil Services]

13 hours ago, Harry said:

 

Last night they were dreadful at the basics. All of them. 
 

It was after losing dismally to Blackburn, that LJ said we must be "world class" at the basics, in the Championship. Four weeks later, we are "dreadful at the basics" against a modest L1 team. 

Are the coaches able to identify problems and rectify them, or just identify them?

[Super]

12 hours ago, Numero Uno said:

If you do want to look at a player it would be interesting to get Dan Bentleys perspective of the goal. Weak as piss goalkeeping I thought.

I have to admit when I first saw it I thought he should be saving that.

[Cowshed]

13 hours ago, Harry said:

We don’t have the players to successfully adopt a high press game. 
That game was based largely around Reid being the catalyst. He had the intelligence to know when and where to press, what angles to take, understanding where the rest of the team were in terms of shape, overloads etc. 
Bobby would instigate. He had lively players around him who would react to the press and understand when and where to push - Smith, Bryan, Brownhill. They generally had bundles of energy and would press all day. 
But ultimately, we had Pack sitting in front of the back line, as a security blanket if the press failed and the opposition managed to play round us. The security of a sitting DM and 2 solid CB’s who wouldn’t get drawn out of shape, stayed tight and didn’t allow spaces down the middle. Coupled with another full back (usually Wright, or Magnússon the other side) who would also stay deeper and not chase high up the pitch. 
 

We don’t have the players now to replicate this. 
We don’t have a Reid, who knows when to spark it off. 
We don’t have full backs or a DM who are prepared to sit in and keep a shape. 

If we try to play a high press with this squad, we will very quickly get passed through and see our CB’s under immediate pressure with very little cover in front or to the side. 
 

It’s not a poor tactic by LJ to not play the press. It’s a lifesaver. He obviously knows the limitations of the players he has. 
 

That's a sweeping post. You omitted that Lee Johnson has not wanted to do this for seasons. 

High pressing is a just a term. There are numerous versions. Bristol City do have the players to play higher out of possession. Patterson has and Weimann certainly can. 

That game was based largely around Reid being the catalyst. He had the intelligence to know … Reid at that point had only played a small part of his career in that position. He had obviously learned the skills to play in the position. And that is what pressing is a skill of differing parts including a very high fitness level. Lee Johnson clearly did help to develop Bobby Reid's game successfully here could he not have done similar with the large group of players he has?

It is very uneven to state that City pressing was dependant on one player without considering why.  A why is that earlier Lee Johnson has not wanted to do this for seasons. If he desired to in this timescale as part of the identity he refers to he would have recruited and developed the players to press higher in one of its multiple variants. Mr Johnson with this timescale has chosen to play and bring in individuals who lack the discipline, fitness and intensity (the skills) to aggressively press the opposition. 

The above really is a choice unless people believe season after season Lee Johnson is being given players without the basic key skills for the football he wants to pursue.

Pressing (high) Is not witchcraft that depends solely on players called Reid.

 

 

[Monkeh]

7 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

That's a sweeping post. You omitted that Lee Johnson has not wanted to do this for seasons. 

High pressing is a just a term. There are numerous versions. Bristol City do have the players to play higher out of possession. Patterson has and Weimann certainly can. 

That game was based largely around Reid being the catalyst. He had the intelligence to know … Reid at that point had only played a small part of his career in that position. He had obviously learned the skills to play in the position. And that is what pressing is a skill of differing parts including a very high fitness level. Lee Johnson clearly did help to develop Bobby Reid's game successfully here could he not have done similar with the large group of players he has?

It is very uneven to state that City pressing was dependant on one player without considering why.  A why is that earlier Lee Johnson has not wanted to do this for seasons. If he desired to in this timescale as part of the identity he refers to he would have recruited and developed the players to press higher in one of its multiple variants. Mr Johnson with this timescale has chosen to play and bring in individuals who lack the discipline, fitness and intensity (the skills) to aggressively press the opposition. 

The above really is a choice unless people believe season after season Lee Johnson is being given players without the basic key skills for the football he wants to pursue.

Pressing (high) Is not witchcraft that depends solely on players called Reid.

 

 

Off of that, the key to beating us is to press high, we can’t cope with it,

thata why we are so predictable

[Numero Uno]

1 hour ago, Tipps69 said:

You name me one centre half in world football, let alone league 1, that if looking to play a one-two with a striker, when on the centre circle at the time, you are then expecting the ball that has broken back to him (it wasn’t an intentional pass back to him, it broke under challenge / mis-control) at 30 yards out, you are expecting to smash one into the bottom corner through a crowd of at least 6 players.

The guy took a gamble & it paid off, for me it was a great strike & I’d love to see one of our midfielders try such a thing, let alone one of our centre-halves. I think credit needs to go to Pierre more so than criticism to Bentley but I guess that’s the joys of football, some people appreciate a decent piece of play while others can find someone to blame. In theory, every goal conceded can be blamed on someone, that’s why you’ll often hear a manager complain that conceded ‘bad goals’ from a defensive point of view while the other manager will praise the attacking play that produced their goal(s).

So while Bentley on £15k p/w should be saving that (in your eyes), De Gea on £350k p/w should surely never be conceding a goal EVER, especially while his defenders & midfielders in front of him are earning just as ridiculously high wages to do their job?!? And the likes of Neymar should never allow a keeper to save a shot or put one wide or over? It is sport, there are lots a variables & no one is perfect & if they were, they wouldn’t be playing for Bristol City in the 2nd tier of English football.

I literally get all that. I just have an opinion that Bentley is more than good enough to save that shot. That’s my opinion. I didn’t say he’s crap, I haven’t denied that if there was a POTS vote right now he’d be walking away with the gong if it was down to me to decide (an easy choice atm btw).

I just think he could have done better on a single goal nothing more, nothing less.

[CityCiderEd]

1 hour ago, Red-Robbo said:

If you are a manager (or "Head Coach") you take responsibility for the performance of your team.

That's as true of football, as it is in any other enterprise.

You've put them in the positions they are in, given them instructions and the encouragement and tools they need to do the job.

The buck stops with you.

That's what leadership is all about. And management is leadership - or it should be!

You've certainly hit the nail firmly on the head mate. No leadership qualities off or on the pitch imo.........

[Numero Uno]

4 minutes ago, CityCiderEd said:

You've certainly hit the nail firmly on the head mate. No leadership qualities off or on the pitch imo.........

This is where Ashton’s DNA BS falls over. Where and who are the real “leaders” in our side? Bentley and Williams at a stretch perhaps. Hunt is a warrior in himself, Kalas similar but not a leader of others. In front of that there is NOBODY. Why don’t we sign on pitch leaders? Did the DNA tests get cancelled?

[CityCiderEd]

1 minute ago, Numero Uno said:

This is where Ashton’s DNA BS falls over. Where and who are the real “leaders” in our side? Bentley and Williams at a stretch perhaps. Hunt is a warrior in himself but not a leader of others. In front of that there is NOBODY. Why don’t we sign on pitch leaders? Did the DNA tests get cancelled?

I don't think Josh is the right choice for captain either,just not a leader in my eyes.

[Pheasant plucker]

15 hours ago, deadredfred said:

Or too many tactics?

For all his efforts to squeeze the 1%’s of improvement, I think LJ hugely overthinks what is a simple game. 

I wouldn’t say we look like a “well-drilled” side, something I’d expect of a team who kept things relatively simple, particularly in dangerous areas.

This is at odds to how we played 2 seasons ago, when with Bobby leading the line it looked like we knew exactly when to press and when to sit back and did so as a team. 

I know personnel have changed but that for me was the perfect system and the reason for our results (Manchester sides in mind). It worked, and needed marginal improvement.

What we have seen is wholesale changes to tactics and personnel  and as a result nobody has any idea what it is we’re trying to do. If LJ does have a plan, he’s not convincing me that he can integrate it, and with the evident lethargy of a very talented squad, it doesn’t seem he can convince them either. 

I really couldn't agree more with this post!

I just don't understand how we have gone from a successful, very pleasing on the eye, effective, well drilled outfit, to one that is turgid, lacking focus or identity and lackluster.

As you state, we just needed a few tweaks, a few in's and outs to steadily progress. Instead we've had wholesale change in not only personal, but style of play......and not for the better!

Absolutely baffles me!

[Monkeh]

2 hours ago, CityCiderEd said:

I don't think Josh is the right choice for captain either,just not a leader in my eyes.

he isn't a captain or a leader in my eye, some players aren't, I'd give it to williams on experience but out side of that we do lack leaders 

[Mendip Broadwalk]

One or two maybe but when its like this you look at who is preparing them. City do not look well drilled. World class at the basics?

[Davefevs]

On 16/01/2020 at 08:01, Numero Uno said:

If we didn’t play Eliasson where would our goals come from? Go back over the season so far.

On 16/01/2020 at 08:04, Monkeh said:

The point he is trying to make is that Johnson doesn’t want to play him, hence why he was always on the bench

it was only until the fans became more vocal about it that Johnson finally gave him a regular start

Good earlier post by @Tipps69 and @The Dolman Pragmatist.

Re Eliasson - if you look back over the season, he only started playing back to back games v Huddersfield.  Regular Sub appearances but only 3 starts before that.  Were goals a problem up to that point?  No, not really.

We’ve had more scoreless games (4 of which Eliasson started 3) in the Eliasson-starting period than we’ve had all season (3 in more games) without him.  Two of those three were 0-0s v Swansea and Forest, at home, but ultimately not bad results looking at where they are in the league.

So if goals haven’t really been a problem all season, as fans, I’d say we (royal we) want entertainment over results / goals.  Eliasson brings that.

But does he lose us something in terms of shape, positioning, etc?

Earlier on this season I was really torn on Nic in terms if should he start or not.  I convinced myself that his assists and trickery outweighed the negative stuff.  I’m starting to move back towards being torn or not.  Because I feel whilst individually it’s great for him, I think it’s possibly having an impact elsewhere on the team.

I really don’t want to make this sound like I’m blaming him, but in accommodating him, we now need to play with width.

Earlier this season with our back 5 (WBs), we had 8 outfield players, playing in the centre of the pitch (3 CBs, 2 CMs, 1 AM, 2 CFs), with the width coming from the WBs.

Now we only have 6 (2 CBs, 2 CMs, 2 CFs), and our defence looks all over the shop / exposed....and we are playing even less entertaining football in the main, and results are more mixed.

I don’t really want to go back to a back 5 (even though I’m a fan of it), plus we don’t have Kalas or Baker fit either.  Having said that (and I know @JonDolman might agree), could we use Rowe at LCB in a 3?

All a bit of a mess really.

Time to be patient and see what team gets picked tomorrow and the result and performance that ensues.

 

 

[Numero Uno]

18 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Good earlier post by @Tipps69 and @The Dolman Pragmatist.

Re Eliasson - if you look back over the season, he only started playing back to back games v Huddersfield.  Regular Sub appearances but only 3 starts before that.  Were goals a problem up to that point?  No, not really.

We’ve had more scoreless games (4 of which Eliasson started 3) in the Eliasson-starting period than we’ve had all season (3 in more games) without him.  Two of those three were 0-0s v Swansea and Forest, at home, but ultimately not bad results looking at where they are in the league.

So if goals haven’t really been a problem all season, as fans, I’d say we (royal we) want entertainment over results / goals.  Eliasson brings that.

But does he lose us something in terms of shape, positioning, etc?

Earlier on this season I was really torn on Nic in terms if should he start or not.  I convinced myself that his assists and trickery outweighed the negative stuff.  I’m starting to move back towards being torn or not.  Because I feel whilst individually it’s great for him, I think it’s possibly having an impact elsewhere on the team.

I really don’t want to make this sound like I’m blaming him, but in accommodating him, we now need to play with width.

Earlier this season with our back 5 (WBs), we had 8 outfield players, playing in the centre of the pitch (3 CBs, 2 CMs, 1 AM, 2 CFs), with the width coming from the WBs.

Now we only have 6 (2 CBs, 2 CMs, 2 CFs), and our defence looks all over the shop / exposed....and we are playing even less entertaining football in the main, and results are more mixed.

I don’t really want to go back to a back 5 (even though I’m a fan of it), plus we don’t have Kalas or Baker fit either.  Having said that (and I know @JonDolman might agree), could we use Rowe at LCB in a 3?

All a bit of a mess really.

Time to be patient and see what team gets picked tomorrow and the result and performance that ensues.

 

 

When people start making arguments for leaving out one of if not the most creative player in the Championship then I know the game is going to the dogs quite honestly.

I can only speak for myself but I didn’t get into football because I adored statistics. When I started playing a watching results weren’t the be all and end all and sod the quality of the football.

We will no doubt see Barnsley dominate possession tomorrow but hey, if we win 1-0 on the break then what an amazing game it was. Another LJ masterclass IF YOU ******* LIKE.

The stats obsessed game that football all is becoming is not for me tbh. Box Entries? I’ll be telling the club to stick them up their arse in the next couple of years or so if the current fare is what football is deemed to be about.

[Monkeh]

25 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Good earlier post by @Tipps69 and @The Dolman Pragmatist.

Re Eliasson - if you look back over the season, he only started playing back to back games v Huddersfield.  Regular Sub appearances but only 3 starts before that.  Were goals a problem up to that point?  No, not really.

We’ve had more scoreless games (4 of which Eliasson started 3) in the Eliasson-starting period than we’ve had all season (3 in more games) without him.  Two of those three were 0-0s v Swansea and Forest, at home, but ultimately not bad results looking at where they are in the league.

So if goals haven’t really been a problem all season, as fans, I’d say we (royal we) want entertainment over results / goals.  Eliasson brings that.

But does he lose us something in terms of shape, positioning, etc?

Earlier on this season I was really torn on Nic in terms if should he start or not.  I convinced myself that his assists and trickery outweighed the negative stuff.  I’m starting to move back towards being torn or not.  Because I feel whilst individually it’s great for him, I think it’s possibly having an impact elsewhere on the team.

I really don’t want to make this sound like I’m blaming him, but in accommodating him, we now need to play with width.

Earlier this season with our back 5 (WBs), we had 8 outfield players, playing in the centre of the pitch (3 CBs, 2 CMs, 1 AM, 2 CFs), with the width coming from the WBs.

Now we only have 6 (2 CBs, 2 CMs, 2 CFs), and our defence looks all over the shop / exposed....and we are playing even less entertaining football in the main, and results are more mixed.

I don’t really want to go back to a back 5 (even though I’m a fan of it), plus we don’t have Kalas or Baker fit either.  Having said that (and I know @JonDolman might agree), could we use Rowe at LCB in a 3?

All a bit of a mess really.

Time to be patient and see what team gets picked tomorrow and the result and performance that ensues.

 

 

But when he came off the bench he normally got the assists to win the game, and that’s the point 

[Davefevs]

13 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

When people start making arguments for leaving out one of if not the most creative player in the Championship then I know the game is going to the dogs quite honestly.

I can only speak for myself but I didn’t get into football because I adored statistics. When I started playing a watching results weren’t the be all and end all and sod the quality of the football.

We will no doubt see Barnsley dominate possession tomorrow but hey, if we win 1-0 on the break then what an amazing game it was. Another LJ masterclass IF YOU ******* LIKE.

The stats obsessed game that football all is becoming is not for me tbh. Box Entries? I’ll be telling the club to stick them up their arse in the next couple of years or so if the current fare is what football is deemed to be about.

I’m not sure I get your point...apologies.

are you saying you want to see entertainment and don’t care about results?  Or vice-versa.

1 minute ago, Monkeh said:

But when he came off the bench he normally got the assists to win the game, and that’s the point 

On some occasions yes.  As I said I find him a dilemma.  Just my view.

[Pheasant plucker]

11 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

When people start making arguments for leaving out one of if not the most creative player in the Championship then I know the game is going to the dogs quite honestly.

I can only speak for myself but I didn’t get into football because I adored statistics. When I started playing a watching results weren’t the be all and end all and sod the quality of the football.

We will no doubt see Barnsley dominate possession tomorrow but hey, if we win 1-0 on the break then what an amazing game it was. Another LJ masterclass IF YOU ******* LIKE.

The stats obsessed game that foot all is becoming is not for me tbh. Box Entries? I’ll be telling the club to stick them up their arse in the next couple of years or so if the current fare is what football is deemed to be about.

With respect it's not purely about statistics. Can't you see with you own eyes the drawbacks of using Eliasson? To be straight, I like Eliasson and what he brings, but I struggle, as Dave Fevs does to be sure if the pros CONSISTANTLY outweigh the cons with our current playing staff/system. And to be fair the stats just back that up.

I've thought for months now, if we play Eliasson it has to be a 4231 system, with lots of movement and inter -changing upfront to negate him just being marked out of the game. This system IMHO would also reduced the negative impact of his poor defensive reading of the game when we lose possession. The effort is there defensively with him, he just doesnt appear "savvy" enough at present to me when possession is turned over.

[BobBobSuperBob]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Good earlier post by @Tipps69 and @The Dolman Pragmatist.

Re Eliasson - if you look back over the season, he only started playing back to back games v Huddersfield.  Regular Sub appearances but only 3 starts before that.  Were goals a problem up to that point?  No, not really.

We’ve had more scoreless games (4 of which Eliasson started 3) in the Eliasson-starting period than we’ve had all season (3 in more games) without him.  Two of those three were 0-0s v Swansea and Forest, at home, but ultimately not bad results looking at where they are in the league.

So if goals haven’t really been a problem all season, as fans, I’d say we (royal we) want entertainment over results / goals.  Eliasson brings that.

But does he lose us something in terms of shape, positioning, etc?

Earlier on this season I was really torn on Nic in terms if should he start or not.  I convinced myself that his assists and trickery outweighed the negative stuff.  I’m starting to move back towards being torn or not.  Because I feel whilst individually it’s great for him, I think it’s possibly having an impact elsewhere on the team.

I really don’t want to make this sound like I’m blaming him, but in accommodating him, we now need to play with width.

Earlier this season with our back 5 (WBs), we had 8 outfield players, playing in the centre of the pitch (3 CBs, 2 CMs, 1 AM, 2 CFs), with the width coming from the WBs.

Now we only have 6 (2 CBs, 2 CMs, 2 CFs), and our defence looks all over the shop / exposed....and we are playing even less entertaining football in the main, and results are more mixed.

I don’t really want to go back to a back 5 (even though I’m a fan of it), plus we don’t have Kalas or Baker fit either.  Having said that (and I know @JonDolman might agree), could we use Rowe at LCB in a 3?

All a bit of a mess really.

Time to be patient and see what team gets picked tomorrow and the result and performance that ensues.

 

 

Good / Interesting / thought provoking thoughts on Eliasson , Dave

Eliasson is symptomatic of one of Johnson’s major flaws IMHO

Recruiting / Planning / Planned playing ethos / Squad Building

 

I’ll take you back to when we signed Eliasson  

At the fans forum a few days later LJ did a 20 minute presentation on recruitment and on the signing of Eliasson ( @Harry)

Sat in bed with laptop , wyscout etc

I can go into detail about how the one player or type of player he wanted was Anthony Knockart who was flavour of the month at Brighton and he went into great detail how Eliasson showed all of Knockharts traits

Now you , I And most on this forum will have an accurate assessment of Anthony Knockarts attributes , but also the downsides (In simple terms defensive attributes / discipline and team cohesion)

So where did Eliasson ever fit into his plan and playing ethos - did he expect to sign a Knockart clone / game changer yet have someone who also fittted naturally into his planned formation and style with good in his defensive responsibilities  ?

Shiny toy syndrome 

 

FWIW I think Eliasson has some of the quickest feet I’ve ever seen and I’d be working on his goal output rather than turn him  into a solid wide player - In the current squad he is the one who stands out as Premier League Potential IMHO 

A good coach IMHO should be able to form a side incorporating his abilities as our X factor 

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Good / Interesting / thought provoking thoughts on Eliasson , Dave

ta

Eliasson is symptomatic of one of Johnson’s major flaws IMHO

Recruiting / Planning / Planned playing ethos / Squad Building

But he’s a “builder”, a “gardener”

True, throughout this pre-season, although I think we signed some very good players (I still think they are too), I could not see how the team was gonna shape up, and whilst not attending pre-season friendlies it was difficult to firm that up.  Pretty sure it was @Silvio Dante who posted that it looked like we were going 4231.  But then we conceded 3 v FGR and got stuffed by Palace.  Perhaps that created doubts?

I’ll take you back to when we signed Eliasson  

At the fans forum a few days later LJ did a 20 minute presentation on recruitment and on the signing of Eliasson ( @Harry)

Sat in bed with laptop , wyscout etc

remember it well...mentioned Knockaert analysis only the other day.

I can go into detail about how the one player or type of player he wanted was Anthony Knockart who was flavour of the month at Brighton 

Now you , I And most on this forum will have an accurate assessment of Anthony Knockarts attributes , but also the downsides (In simple terms defensive attributes / discipline and team cohesion)

yep, all correct.

So where did Eliasson ever fit into his plan and playing ethos - did he expect to sign a Knockart clone / game changer yet have someone who also fittted naturally into his planned formation and style with good in his defensive responsibilities  ?

Shiny toy syndrome 

Quite probably.  I’m not convinced Eliasson has improved his defensive capabilities.  In the same way some moan about Palmer’s workrate being a bit of closing down and a few sliding tackles, they’ll use similar to say Eliasson has really improved defensively.  Even Gregor (not here to defend himself) and I had a bit of a debate via Twitter DM re tackling stats, and me saying they weren’t worth reading too much into.

FWIW I think Eliasson has some of the quickest feet I’ve ever seen and I’d be working on his goal output rather than turn him  into a solid wide player - In the current squad he is the one who stands out as Premier League Potential IMHO

I know what you mean, I’d need some evidence of him playing differently.  Having said that, when he plays left, he doesn’t hug the left touchline he floats around much better.  When on the right he stays tight to the touchline.

A good coach IMHO should be able to form a side incorporating his abilities as our X factor

We have absolutely zero distraction from the task in hand now...we can all fairly judge the next 19 games from both coaching perspective and players.

 

[BobBobSuperBob]

10 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

 

I think he is an easy blame for our defensive frailties Personally Dave , he’s certainly willing , if not the sharpest off ball 

I think  others who play in front of of the back four / five get an easy ride on here , our Premier League bound skipper for one

The back four a mess in itself with a £1.9 million pound right back and another whose valued at more than that struggling to competently fill the spot , and ever changing Centre halves combinations(For a variety of reasons) who have been , very mixed in performance

And Possibly the biggest factor , constant changes of systems , no continuity

Thank Christ Lee had some of that Webster money for a goalkeeper , eh Lee ......

Otherwise I think we’d be looking over our shoulders about now  

[Davefevs]

5 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

I think he is an easy blame for defensive frailties Personally Dave , he’s certainly willing , if not the sharpest off ball

I don’t blame him for it all, but think he is one of the factors....especially when he plays right.

I think  others who play in front of of the back four / five get an easy ride on here , our Premier League bound skipper for one

the movement has been poor, but what has made it worse is the lack of angles too.

The back four a mess in itself with a £1.9 million pound right back and another whose valued at more than that struggling to competently fill the spot , and ever changing Centre halves combinations(For a variety of reasons) who have been , very mixed in performance

Hunt earlier this season looked like the Hunt I’d seen at Wednesday, and why I thought he’d be a good signing.  Since coming back from injury his form has been so in and out.  Was great the other week v Luton (who were poor admittedly), but then awful in others.  Is he another brought back too quickly.  Pereira has been good defensively but he lacks confidence on the ball.

Thank Christ Lee had some of that Webster money for a goalkeeper , eh Lee ......

MA signed him

Otherwise I think we’d be looking over our shoulders about now  

 

[wayne allisons tongues]

On 16/01/2020 at 06:46, Tipps69 said:

It wasn’t a ‘daisy cutter’ as you call it, the ball didn’t touch the grass until it hit the back of the net, so wasn’t slowed down by the heavy conditions. I wouldn’t blame Bentley for their goal, no one was probably expecting their centre half to come forward & hit a ball that has broken to him about 30 yards out first time, it’s probably about as likely as Baker or Williams doing similar for us & if they did, it would probably be more of a worry for the stewards in the car park than it would for the oppositions keeper!

It was a more than decent strike by someone that no one probably expected it from that came through a crowd of players. With a minute to go, he took a gamble & it paid off handsomely for him, fair play to the guy.

Trouble was he did the same thing first half and it nearly worked.

Someone on the pitch or in the dugout must think he can shoot, don’t  let him try it again and what do we do let him have another go.

[wayne allisons tongues]

3 hours ago, Pheasant plucker said:

With respect it's not purely about statistics. Can't you see with you own eyes the drawbacks of using Eliasson? To be straight, I like Eliasson and what he brings, but I struggle, as Dave Fevs does to be sure if the pros CONSISTANTLY outweigh the cons with our current playing staff/system. And to be fair the stats just back that up.

I've thought for months now, if we play Eliasson it has to be a 4231 system, with lots of movement and inter -changing upfront to negate him just being marked out of the game. This system IMHO would also reduced the negative impact of his poor defensive reading of the game when we lose possession. The effort is there defensively with him, he just doesnt appear "savvy" enough at present to me when possession is turned over.

That was how we were playing Tuesday. Eliasson, Pato, weimann interchanging and playing various roles. Worked find till 65 mins.

On came Palmer for Pato and we lost all momentum and was basically playing 451 with Palmer happy on Right wing between Hunt and Weimann. 
Who told him to play there if LJ he lost us match with change of formation.

If Palmer why is he playing where he feels like.

[Murraysrightplum]

They let their parents down, they let the school down, but worse; they let themselves down

[Davefevs]

39 minutes ago, wayne allisons tongues said:

That was how we were playing Tuesday. Eliasson, Pato, weimann interchanging and playing various roles. Worked find till 65 mins.

On came Palmer for Pato and we lost all momentum and was basically playing 451 with Palmer happy on Right wing between Hunt and Weimann. 
Who told him to play there if LJ he lost us match with change of formation.

If Palmer why is he playing where he feels like.

As the game wasn’t on telly I had no idea what shape we played when KP came on.  You saying he played RW?  Where was Weimann playing?

[miser]

28 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

As the game wasn’t on telly I had no idea what shape we played when KP came on.  You saying he played RW?  Where was Weimann playing?

Palmer played central, Weimann right in a 4-2-3-1. At least I think that was the plan. We lost cohesion after the substitution.

[shelts]

Well of course they did . If they play to their potential it should be an easy game . Cup football though doesn’t work like that .   A combination of manager and players let us down . Unfortunately the manager cops the flak 

[wayne allisons tongues]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

As the game wasn’t on telly I had no idea what shape we played when KP came on.  You saying he played RW?  Where was Weimann playing?

Guess he was suppose to play a free role but spent most of time on right wing between weimann and Hunt.

This meant Nagy had to push up for no cover centrally and Shrewsbury worked that out quickly and took off wider players and filled the middle and from then on we had no control of the game.

 

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, wayne allisons tongues said:

Guess he was suppose to play a free role but spent most of time on right wing between weimann and Hunt.

This meant Nagy had to push up for no cover centrally and Shrewsbury worked that out quickly and took off wider players and filled the middle and from then on we had no control of the game.

 

I’m still confused.  Where was Pato playing before Palmer replaced him?  We were 442, yes?

Pato left, Eliasson right?  Brownhill, Nagy CMs? Yes?

Did Eliasson go left?

[ScottishRed]

On 15/01/2020 at 22:51, CityCiderEd said:

Just looked at LJ's stats when he was manager at Barnsley and in 42 games he used 10 different formations................

Because he thinks he is much smarter than he actually is.

7 formations apparently this season - I bet tomorrow makes it 8!

[reddogkev]

Thanks for all responses, some of the contributions on here are truly first class.  My God OTIB has a lot of quality - take a bow one and all.

There's a lot of topics covered here, that's for sure.

 

[Numero Uno]

7 hours ago, Pheasant plucker said:

With respect it's not purely about statistics. Can't you see with you own eyes the drawbacks of using Eliasson? To be straight, I like Eliasson and what he brings, but I struggle, as Dave Fevs does to be sure if the pros CONSISTANTLY outweigh the cons with our current playing staff/system. And to be fair the stats just back that up.

I've thought for months now, if we play Eliasson it has to be a 4231 system, with lots of movement and inter -changing upfront to negate him just being marked out of the game. This system IMHO would also reduced the negative impact of his poor defensive reading of the game when we lose possession. The effort is there defensively with him, he just doesnt appear "savvy" enough at present to me when possession is turned over.

Eliasson is our best “footballer” on the ball. Our main “go to” style of play should be based around accommodating him accepting that he can still work bloody hard on weaknesses defensively that allow us to slot him into other systems the Manager might want to set us up with (which will also increase his value massively).

The day we rid our squad of all talent and revert to picking 11 players of very average ability because they can be “trusted” in the system is the day I don’t renew my season ticket tbh. The football is bad enough as it is regardless of being 1 point off the play offs.

For me entertainment and watching players do things nobody in the stands could do is important. Might not be for everyone else but it is for me. I would rather watch non league football than a “War of Attrition” every week tbh.

Because of Managers like Johnson (not just him) we have fans regurgitating exactly what they hear from these people and talk in the pub about systems, formations you never knew existed, transitions, quoting statistics that are often irrelevant and the like. All sounds impressive then you find out they have not kicked a football since Junior School

[wayne allisons tongues]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

I’m still confused.  Where was Pato playing before Palmer replaced him?  We were 442, yes?

Pato left, Eliasson right?  Brownhill, Nagy CMs? Yes?

Did Eliasson go left?

Was a 4231 to start 
 

Hunt baker Williams Rowe

          Nagy 

       Brownhill Kept dropping deep

weimann Pato eliasson These kept swapping around Pato cover Brownhill when deep

fammy on his own

 

palmer came on 

 

hunt  Williams Moore Rowe
 

                Nagy Brownhill

Palmer 

weimann                               Eliasson

 

             Fammy 

 

 

Thats how it looked like from the away end

Palmer kept going to the right and Weimann Eliasson didn’t swap over. 
 

Massive hole which Nagy tried to fill but when pushed up left gap between midfield and defence which Shrewsbury exploited with there subs.

 

Hopefully makes sense now, after match started topic about Palmer and where was he playing for made no sense. Was just getting in the way of Hunt.

[Davefevs]

Thanks @wayne allisons tongues, much appreciated.

I thought after Pato’s left wing performance v Wigan he’d have kept him there.

And then from you say, when Palmer come on, looks like a mix of 4231/433.

Im glad I wasn’t there

Looks confused. 

[Pheasant plucker]

1 hour ago, Numero Uno said:

Eliasson is our best “footballer” on the ball. Our main “go to” style of play should be based around accommodating him accepting that he can still work bloody hard on weaknesses defensively that allow us to slot him into other systems the Manager might want to set us up with (which will also increase his value massively).

The day we rid our squad of all talent and revert to picking 11 players of very average ability because they can be “trusted” in the system is the day I don’t renew my season ticket tbh. The football is bad enough as it is regardless of being 1 point off the play offs.

For me entertainment and watching players do things nobody in the stands could do is important. Might not be for everyone else but it is for me. I would rather watch non league football than a “War of Attrition” every week tbh.

Because of Managers like Johnson (not just him) we have fans regurgitating exactly what they hear from these people and talk in the pub about systems, formations you never knew existed, transitions, quoting statistics that are often irrelevant and the like. All sounds impressive then you find out they have not kicked a football since Junior School

I'm not against Eliasson playing; far from it. But it has to work. Our head coach and his team need to earn their corn and get it right.

I too am not interested in turgid, "safe" football to get results, but what I'm saying is, is for whatever reason when Eliasson plays, after a couple of games he's effectively marked out if the game, and with it all of our "flair" play disappears. As has been said there's no reason we can't accommodate him, not sure why we can't tbh, but there it is, it's a fact we don't seem to play well for more than a game or two with him in the side.

Hope we find a way, wide men an attacking football has always been the "Bristol City way".

 

[Numero Uno]

27 minutes ago, Pheasant plucker said:

I'm not against Eliasson playing; far from it. But it has to work. Our head coach and his team need to earn their corn and get it right.

I too am not interested in turgid, "safe" football to get results, but what I'm saying is, is for whatever reason when Eliasson plays, after a couple of games he's effectively marked out if the game, and with it all of our "flair" play disappears. As has been said there's no reason we can't accommodate him, not sure why we can't tbh, but there it is, it's a fact we don't seem to play well for more than a game or two with him in the side.

Hope we find a way, wide men an attacking football has always been the "Bristol City way".

 

Your first comment sums it up for me

[exAtyeoMax]

If LJ doesn’t want to play Elliasson, why didn’t they sell him?

 

[Cowshed]

18 hours ago, Numero Uno said:

Eliasson is our best “footballer” on the ball. Our main “go to” style of play should be based around accommodating him accepting that he can still work bloody hard on weaknesses defensively that allow us to slot him into other systems the Manager might want to set us up with (which will also increase his value massively).

The day we rid our squad of all talent and revert to picking 11 players of very average ability because they can be “trusted” in the system is the day I don’t renew my season ticket tbh. The football is bad enough as it is regardless of being 1 point off the play offs.

For me entertainment and watching players do things nobody in the stands could do is important. Might not be for everyone else but it is for me. I would rather watch non league football than a “War of Attrition” every week tbh.

Because of Managers like Johnson (not just him) we have fans regurgitating exactly what they hear from these people and talk in the pub about systems, formations you never knew existed, transitions, quoting statistics that are often irrelevant and the like. All sounds impressive then you find out they have not kicked a football since Junior School

I think for a Country that was known for its lack of tactical understanding fans displaying knowledge of the game is a cool thing. 

In regards to Eliason and systems .. Were you excited when Bristol City beat Manchester Utd? Drama? Dull war of attrition? That system did not have a player in it in Eliason's mould. He would not have been accommodated in it. 

I understand your point. I feel posters are picking up on Bristol City not having a system. Bristol City are not moving towards football that would accommodate the player or otherwise. 

There are consistent points made about Elaison that are fair. Opinion is frequently a question of what values you have and want to see. There are fans who yearn to see that excitement of that night, that teams football or similar back. 

[BCFC Grim]

20 minutes ago, Matty_Taylor_is_god said:

They are also much bigger clubs than we are.

Oh right, so you now need to be a big club to be able to play some decent football. Someone better have told Shrewsbury that. 

[Numero Uno]

5 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

I think for a Country that was known for its lack of tactical understanding fans displaying knowledge of the game is a cool thing. 

In regards to Eliason and systems .. Were you excited when Bristol City beat Manchester Utd? Drama? Dull war of attrition? That system did not have a player in it in Eliason's mould. He would not have been accommodated in it. 

I understand your point. I feel posters are picking up on Bristol City not having a system. Bristol City are not moving towards football that would accommodate the player or otherwise. 

There are consistent points made about Elaison that are fair. Opinion is frequently a question of what values you have and want to see. There are fans who yearn to see that excitement of that night, that teams football or similar back. 

LJ has tied himself in knots!! We are a reactive team who seem to have no identifiable way of playing except we prefer to counter attack.

The way of playing is more important than the formation. You can play a 442 or a 352 in completely different ways, the point being it’s a lot easier to adapt if the common way you play is known by the players.

If you try to be front foot one week, back foot the next and wait and see what the other lot do the next you are not helping players at all.

Yes it’s cool to have tactical knowledge but LJ seems to use his to confuse himself and everyone around him. From listening to people who were there Tuesday was a prime example.

Anyway let’s hope for three points AND a performance later

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Cowshed said:

I think for a Country that was known for its lack of tactical understanding fans displaying knowledge of the game is a cool thing. 

In regards to Eliason and systems .. Were you excited when Bristol City beat Manchester Utd? Drama? Dull war of attrition? That system did not have a player in it in Eliason's mould. He would not have been accommodated in it. 

I understand your point. I feel posters are picking up on Bristol City not having a system. Bristol City are not moving towards football that would accommodate the player or otherwise. 

There are consistent points made about Elaison that are fair. Opinion is frequently a question of what values you have and want to see. There are fans who yearn to see that excitement of that night, that teams football or similar back. 

Out of interest, if you were to become City’s Head-Coach, how would you do it, and by that I mean:

- do you have a philosophy or system

would you try to fit players into it from day one, or gradually transition to it through coaching and recruitment?  Or would you look at what you’ve got, find what you think is the best for that group of players and then make that better and better?

[Cowshed]

7 hours ago, Numero Uno said:

LJ has tied himself in knots!! We are a reactive team who seem to have no identifiable way of playing except we prefer to counter attack.

 

 

7 hours ago, Numero Uno said:

The way of playing is more important than the formation. You can play a 442 or a 352 in completely different ways, the point being it’s a lot easier to adapt if the common way you play is known by the players.

 

7 hours ago, Numero Uno said:

If you try to be front foot one week, back foot the next and wait and see what the other lot do the next you are not helping players at all.

 

I have used your post in that manner because I agree with all of the points.

7 hours ago, Numero Uno said:

Anyway let’s hope for three points AND a performance later 

Well it was a win. 

5 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Out of interest, if you were to become City’s Head-Coach, how would you do it, and by that I mean:

- do you have a philosophy or system

would you try to fit players into it from day one, or gradually transition to it through coaching and recruitment?  Or would you look at what you’ve got, find what you think is the best for that group of players and then make that better and better?

It is an out there scenario but a question is what is the expectation from the club itself? What is the clubs it (big plan)? Much noise was once made about BCFC’s player pathway and nurturing local talent. Local lads playing in Bristol City’s XI are now a rarity.

So the starting point is what is IT and what are the expectations. If its win, win now, play as you want and we can spend this, play eleven Eskimos on the pitch if it gets them the wins they consider to be progress. 

[Numero Uno]

On 17/01/2020 at 09:44, Numero Uno said:

We will no doubt see Barnsley dominate possession tomorrow but hey, if we win 1-0 on the break then what an amazing game it was. Another LJ masterclass IF YOU ******* LIKE

Wasn’t that far out..........

[Davefevs]

13 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Wasn’t that far out..........

Nor me: