The bigger picture

[Alex_BCFC]

Just now, Sheltons Army said:

Sorry Alex but in relation to Bristol City he’s not shown such astuteness at any point , save his Appointment of  GJ 

 

As for ‘His recent appointment of managers has been good’ 

I literally couldn’t disagree more - I’d be interested in your backing of that

I’ve gone through it before but in summary:

Coterril and LJ both taken the club forward and we are now a top half championship side versus bottom of league one. Considering since I’ve supported since early 90s - to have continuous seasons of improvement (until last) in the championship is pretty much unknown. Could it be better? Of course and I want it to improve again - however I do understand the current stance the club took on Holden. 

[Sheltons Army]

Just now, Alex_BCFC said:

I’ve gone through it before but in summary:

Coterril and LJ both taken the club forward and we are now a top half championship side versus bottom of league one. Considering since I’ve supported since early 90s - to have continuous seasons of improvement (until last) in the championship is pretty much unknown. Could it be better? Of course and I want it to improve again - however I do understand the current stance the club took on Holden. 

Firstly , and putting aside Holden and your belief as to the reason

Cotts wasn’t Lansdowns appointment - He was Keith Dawes man

And I won’t go into our opinions of Lee Johnson as we are likely poles apart so I’ll just ask 

‘Do you still believe he was the best appointment we (SL) could have made?’

Before that - well I won’t go through them but post GJ a depressing list of failure 

 

 

[Alex_BCFC]

9 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

Firstly , and putting aside Holden and your belief as to the reason

Cotts wasn’t Lansdowns appointment - He was Keith Dawes man

And I won’t go into our opinions of Lee Johnson as we are likely poles apart so I’ll just ask 

‘Do you still believe he was the best appointment we (SL) could have made?’

Before that - well I won’t go through them but post GJ a depressing list of failure 

 

 

He may have been but still falls under the SL reign and he will have authorised it etc. So some credit due.

I doubt he was the best appointment but I guess we will never know as we can’t play out every eventuality. I can’t really remember who else was available - would be interested to see the list now. He certainly wouldn’t of been the worst as he went on to continually improve the league position but clearly didn’t have enough to take it that step further. Like I said, in our recent history it was certainly good versus years of league one football that had endured. So progress but would like to see the next appointment take us that next step on. Don’t get me wrong - LJ wasn’t amazing  and I certainly felt he went at the right time. But prior to his final season he was very close to getting us to the playoffs. 

Yes there are a lot of failures after GJ although on paper SOD and Coppell looked good but sometimes it just doesn’t work out. The appointment that annoyed me was Millen - was all set up to fail like Tinnion did. SL far from perfect but I do think things have headed in the right direction and will continue to do so. 

[Hampshire Red]

Why not put the real problem for pessimism amongst 30,000 city fans?

Not the owner, nor the chairman, nor the CEO, nor the head coach. 

Perhaps just the 50 or so neg-heads who make up the forum? 

[Sheltons Army]

31 minutes ago, Hampshire Red said:

Why not put the real problem for pessimism amongst 30,000 city fans?

Not the owner, nor the chairman, nor the CEO, nor the head coach. 

Perhaps just the 50 or so neg-heads who make up the forum? 

Fair play for your honesty and admission 

Who’s the other 49 ?

* Not sure what a ‘Neg Head is ‘but I’m probably one .... so the other 48 ?

[Sheltons Army]

12 minutes ago, Alex_BCFC said:

He may have been but still falls under the SL reign and he will have authorised it etc. So some credit due.

I doubt he was the best appointment but I guess we will never know as we can’t play out every eventuality. I can’t really remember who else was available - would be interested to see the list now. He certainly wouldn’t of been the worst as he went on to continually improve the league position but clearly didn’t have enough to take it that step further. Like I said, in our recent history it was certainly good versus years of league one football that had endured. So progress but would like to see the next appointment take us that next step on. Don’t get me wrong - LJ wasn’t amazing  and I certainly felt he went at the right time. But prior to his final season he was very close to getting us to the playoffs. 

Yes there are a lot of failures after GJ although on paper SOD and Coppell looked good but sometimes it just doesn’t work out. The appointment that annoyed me was Millen - was all set up to fail like Tinnion did. SL far from perfect but I do think things have headed in the right direction and will continue to do so. 

 

[The Constant Rabbit]

8 hours ago, BTRFTG said:

Save he hasn't. City's net indebtedness (£100m +) is no longer covered by value of retained assets.

The value of the stadium? Who wants a stadium in Bristol & what might they be prepared to pay for it?  I've heard rumour there's only on other professional (sic) club hereabouts but also, crucially, that they're potless. Benchmark AG's Residual Land Value  and it'll be nowhere near as much as you might imagine. Ditto the training facilities. The Squad is a wholesale liability in both financial and playing terms.

And no, SL isn't stupid. What SL is is extraordinarily wealthy. And with that comes an interesting take on life. When one had all one needs, hundreds of times over, what does one do with what remains? The stupid, tasteless new rich splurge on shiny things, vast floating or airborne trinkets, or a la mode 'arm candy'. Others with more civic responsibility indulge in buying that money may not buy. They become public servants and philanthropic. In our case I'd argue SL is both the latter.

I don't think I have ever read a post that is so wrong, on so many levels.

The club has no assets. The ground is not the clubs asset. Or the land. Or the houses. Or the offices. Or the new estates at AV.

The club exists on paper only.

Why? Because Lansdown owns EVERYTHING listed above.

You do know that City PAY Lansdown rent to play at AG - yes?

It's about the Real estate, stupid. (Plagerised from an American president).

The amount of fans who have absolutely no idea of the financial set up and separation between Club and physical assets is staggering.

 

Or to make it easier for you - have a look at the prices of the Flats at AG.

The leases on the offices at AG

The price of the new homes on AV

The revenue from non-matchday income from the Arena (after change of use PP), the Hotels when finished, the 'Commercial alleyway' - plus the mooted micro-brewery and food production units that will supply all the above.

Every house sale, every lease signed, every room booked, every convention filled, every concert performed - EVERY SINGLE PENNY GOES TO SL

 

Not the club - as we no longer own it, or the land it sits on.

So many people keep trying to explain this  but it just won't sink in to some of you.

Lansdown has spent £200m - and that comes out of interest earned on his own made money (fair play to him)

He has bought everything listed above with that money - it's all his.

And it's worth north of £1.5 BILLION now.

 

Do you get it now?

 

Stephen Lansdown , according to Forbes, is currently the  1001st RICHEST PERSON ON THE PLANET

£200 million is nothing to him, especially over 20 years.   Chump change.

 

https://www.forbes.com/profile/stephen-lansdown/?sh=56c79b5250b0

[Davefevs]

@The Constant Rabbit, but, but, but, it’s just a donation!  But, but, but, it is an investment, and he won’t be making any money from it!

Thank you for your post.  There are some people out there who haven’t got their head around one of SL’s motives.  I’m sure there is some goodwill in there too, but he didn’t get involved to throw his money away.

[The Constant Rabbit]

18 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

@The Constant Rabbit, but, but, but, it’s just a donation!  But, but, but, it is an investment, and he won’t be making any money from it!

Thank you for your post.  There are some people out there who haven’t got their head around one of SL’s motives.  I’m sure there is some goodwill in there too, but he didn’t get involved to throw his money away.

Pleasure Dave

 

Don't forget too, SL may have left L/H but is sole owner of Earth Capital and DZ Racing - both international firms.

And no, the irony of one business being about 'green' money and the other is a racing and car accessory world wide franchise is highly amusing.....

https://www.earthcapital.net/

 

Also EarthCapital's list of Portfolio Companies (ie SL owns them too) - completely explains the pre-season Botswana trip a few years back.

Altruism my arse.

See the African Renewable Energy Fund - owned by SL and winner of a £200m 'contract' from Berkeley Energy ( a subsidiary of AREF)    - who amazingly have projects in *drum roll*  BOTSWANA!

The whole trip was a complete tax write off.  

Interesting the number of staff who have interests in both AREF and BE.

 

But,but,but, indeed Dave.

https://www.earthcapital.net/portfolio/

[Mr Popodopolous]

29 minutes ago, The Constant Rabbit said:

Pleasure Dave

 

Don't forget too, SL may have left L/H but is sole owner of Earth Capital and DZ Racing - both international firms.

And no, the irony of one business being about 'green' money and the other is a racing and car accessory world wide franchise is highly amusing.....

https://www.earthcapital.net/

 

Also earth Energies list of Portfolio Companies (ie SL owns them too) - completely explains the pre-season Botswana trip a few years back.

Altruism my arse. 

The whole trip was a complete tax write off. 

But,but,but, indeed Dave.

https://www.earthcapital.net/portfolio/

Interesting stuff indeed TCR.

Not yet looked at the links but in that theme, he also seems to have an interest in Sustainable Technology Investments (Guernsey). Unsure if it's a significant or controlling one but definitely has an interest.

Although Earth Capital (as per a quick CH search), no longer seems to have this interest. Could be had.

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/officers/V4mosyvTbFOq9QOo6vqVTESLuV8/appointments

SL has his fingers in a few pies it seems. Certainly has his Business Interests in Botswana. Reserve/luxury Safari.

Apologies if you've already covered it but he now has his Business ie the Guernsey Golf venture.

His Investments do appear to be relatively benign however. Shares in eg Arms or even Big Oil/Shale companies wouldn't be.

[The Constant Rabbit]

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Interesting stuff indeed TCR.

Not yet looked at the links but in that theme, he also seems to have an interest in Sustainable Technology Investments (Guernsey). Unsure if it's a significant or controlling one but definitely has an interest.

Although Earth Capital (as per a quick CH search), no longer seems to have this interest. Could be had.

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/officers/V4mosyvTbFOq9QOo6vqVTESLuV8/appointments

SL has his fingers in a few pies it seems. Certainly has his Business Interests in Botswana. Reserve/luxury Safari.

Apologies if you've already covered it but he now has his Business ie the Guernsey Golf venture.

His Investments do appear to be relatively benign however. Shares in eg Arms or even Big Oil/Shale companies wouldn't be.

EARTH CAPITAL HOLDINGS LIMITED

Correspondence address

Pula House, La Grande Rue, St. Martin, Guernsey, GY4 6RT

 

Pula Holdings IIRC is a company of note in the Bristol Sport set-up  

@Davefevs

[BS4 on Tour...]

On 11/02/2021 at 11:01, steviestevieneville said:

...it’s quite clear he knows very little about football and I’ve said plenty of times that we’ll never get promoted with him as owner....

But we have been promoted with him as owner ...

[Davefevs]

9 minutes ago, The Constant Rabbit said:

EARTH CAPITAL HOLDINGS LIMITED

Correspondence address

Pula House, La Grande Rue, St. Martin, Guernsey, GY4 6RT

 

Pula Holdings IIRC is a company of note in the Bristol Sport set-up  

@Davefevs

Pula airlines

[steviestevieneville]

9 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

But we have been promoted with him as owner ...

You know full well that I’m talking about the prem . 

[KeepUpLino]

On 11/02/2021 at 11:26, Mr Chappers said:

Stable owner who loves the club, supports managers, has re-built the stadium, and developed top notch training facilities. That’s a problem most clubs would love to have

You know what, I miss our club before it was sanitised with the soulless stadium.... its dead!!!

[KeepUpLino]

On 11/02/2021 at 11:34, Mr Chappers said:

Generally OK. I just look at other clubs owners and am very grateful for what we have.

What have we actually got?

[KeepUpLino]

5 hours ago, Hampshire Red said:

Why not put the real problem for pessimism amongst 30,000 city fans?

Not the owner, nor the chairman, nor the CEO, nor the head coach. 

Perhaps just the 50 or so neg-heads who make up the forum? 

Neg head!! You’ve clearly never experienced a Bristol derby or proper passion at Ashton gate, I actually feel for you young man that you’re happy with this shite.... god help us all!!

[Mr Chappers]

8 hours ago, KeepUpLino said:

What have we actually got?

A club that’s had a consistent run in the top half of the Championship, League Cup semi final, and now the most horrific injury crisis possible. 
Financial stability. 
My only complaint is no priority away ticket scheme, to reward those of us who used to, and will again, trek around the Country supporting the team. When we finally go up, it will be needed.... Although VAR may well kill some of the enjoyment.

[steviestevieneville]

16 minutes ago, Mr Chappers said:

A club that’s had a consistent run in the top half of the Championship, League Cup semi final, and now the most horrific injury crisis possible. 
Financial stability. 
My only complaint is no priority away ticket scheme, to reward those of us who used to, and will again, trek around the Country supporting the team. When we finally go up, it will be needed.... Although VAR may well kill some of the enjoyment.

We’re further away from promotion & closer to relegation now than we were 4 years ago. Forget league position at the moment. The quality of recruitment of the squad is declining rapidly . The coaching is worse now as well & I was certainly not a LJ fan . We’re bang in trouble. I don’t know how long you’ve supported us , but if you remember the millen/mciines era, that’s where we’re heading if it doesn’t change. 

[Mr Chappers]

11 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

We’re further away from promotion & closer to relegation now than we were 4 years ago. Forget league position at the moment. The quality of recruitment of the squad is declining rapidly . The coaching is worse now as well & I was certainly not a LJ fan . We’re bang in trouble. I don’t know how long you’ve supported us , but if you remember the millen/mciines era, that’s where we’re heading if it doesn’t change. 

Recruitment fail was 2019 when we lost Pack, made worse by the sale of Brownhill. Since then the midfield has been incredibly weak. Covid clearly affected recruitment in 2020, and whilst things are a tad poor right now, chance of a big rebuild ahead, and looking good from the Academy.

And who knows what the coaching is like? Hard to judge in times like these, and seems to be an excuse for average performances from some very ordinary players.

[steviestevieneville]

6 minutes ago, Mr Chappers said:

Recruitment fail was 2019 when we lost Pack, made worse by the sale of Brownhill. Since then the midfield has been incredibly weak. Covid clearly affected recruitment in 2020, and whilst things are a tad poor right now, chance of a big rebuild ahead, and looking good from the Academy.

And who knows what the coaching is like? Hard to judge in times like these, and seems to be an excuse for average performances from some very ordinary players.

It’s just what I see and I’m certainly no expert. We just looked disjointed. There’s a lack of any kind of press or pressure on the ball, teams play around us too easily with the gap from back to front  too big at times. Going forward , it just looks off the cuff .

well coached teams , you can see their patterns of play , how they drag teams about . I hate how Cardiff play but you could clearly see how big mick  had coached them & how they were trying to isolate us in certain areas . 

[Mr Chappers]

1 hour ago, steviestevieneville said:

It’s just what I see and I’m certainly no expert. We just looked disjointed. There’s a lack of any kind of press or pressure on the ball, teams play around us too easily with the gap from back to front  too big at times. Going forward , it just looks off the cuff .

well coached teams , you can see their patterns of play , how they drag teams about . I hate how Cardiff play but you could clearly see how big mick  had coached them & how they were trying to isolate us in certain areas . 

Some fair points, but I just think we have such a weak squad of available players, any coach would struggle. No left back, a very limited midfield with no bite, that neither supports defence or attack, and younger players who can’t cope with 2 games a week. Also looks to me as though we are being forced to pick players who are not fully match fit. 
I just look at the threads of suggested teams, none look strong, and are mostly based on wild optimism that certain players will perform way above what they have achieved to date.

Just look on the bright side, we can suffer from the warmth of our homes rather than freezing in a dull part of the Home Counties, where Wetherspoons is the least worst beer option. You never know, 9 man defence, and win with a dodgy penalty.... I’m setting my sights high.

[Sheltons Army]

1 hour ago, steviestevieneville said:

It’s just what I see and I’m certainly no expert. We just looked disjointed. There’s a lack of any kind of press or pressure on the ball, teams play around us too easily with the gap from back to front  too big at times. Going forward , it just looks off the cuff .

well coached teams , you can see their patterns of play , how they drag teams about . I hate how Cardiff play but you could clearly see how big mick  had coached them & how they were trying to isolate us in certain areas . 

Spot on in every aspect 

[italian dave]

14 hours ago, Sheltons Army said:

Firstly , and putting aside Holden and your belief as to the reason

Cotts wasn’t Lansdowns appointment - He was Keith Dawes man

And I won’t go into our opinions of Lee Johnson as we are likely poles apart so I’ll just ask 

‘Do you still believe he was the best appointment we (SL) could have made?’

Before that - well I won’t go through them but post GJ a depressing list of failure 

 

 

SC and LJ "a depressing list of failure"? Sorry, that is nonsense. From bottom of league 1 to a club that's not just in the Championship, but established there - not the yo-yo side we traditionally had been. 

If you judge that failure then I'd like to know what your measure of success would be. Presumably you'd expect 7 years for us to be winning the Chamions League? 

[Sheltons Army]

5 minutes ago, italian dave said:

SC and LJ "a depressing list of failure"? Sorry, that is nonsense. From bottom of league 1 to a club that's not just in the Championship, but established there - not the yo-yo side we traditionally had been. 

If you judge that failure then I'd like to know what your measure of success would be. Presumably you'd expect 7 years for us to be winning the Chamions League? 

Where have I said SC was failure - you will know from my posts exactly what I think of SCs time here 

You May want to actually re read the posts as we were discussing SLs managerial appointment s - I dealt with SC and LJ and described the rest as a depressing list of failure

 

LJ - failure ? -  Maybe harsh , but no ‘success ‘ in my book, let’s say ‘missed opportunities’ and the wrong appointment (IMHO) 

And yes those GJ - SC , a depressing list of failure 

[italian dave]

14 hours ago, Alex_BCFC said:

He may have been but still falls under the SL reign and he will have authorised it etc. So some credit due.

I doubt he was the best appointment but I guess we will never know as we can’t play out every eventuality. I can’t really remember who else was available - would be interested to see the list now. He certainly wouldn’t of been the worst as he went on to continually improve the league position but clearly didn’t have enough to take it that step further. Like I said, in our recent history it was certainly good versus years of league one football that had endured. So progress but would like to see the next appointment take us that next step on. Don’t get me wrong - LJ wasn’t amazing  and I certainly felt he went at the right time. But prior to his final season he was very close to getting us to the playoffs. 

Yes there are a lot of failures after GJ although on paper SOD and Coppell looked good but sometimes it just doesn’t work out. The appointment that annoyed me was Millen - was all set up to fail like Tinnion did. SL far from perfect but I do think things have headed in the right direction and will continue to do so. 

Completely agree Alex. 

My greatest fear now is that we're back to the internal /short lived appointments that served us so badly prior to SC. I have this worry that we'll look back on LJ a little like Ericsson as England manager - as someone who, despite some mistakes and some limitations - actually got the side punching above its weight. 

[italian dave]

2 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

Where have I said SC was failure - you will know from my posts exactly what I think of SCs time here 

 

LJ - failure ? -  Maybe harsh , but no ‘success ‘ in my book, let’s say ‘missed opportunities’ and the wrong appointment (IMHO) 

You said above "post GJ a depressing list of failure" 

I was surprised

[Sheltons Army]

Just now, italian dave said:

You said above "post GJ a depressing list of failure" 

I was surprised

Reread the thread - the debate and my post above

[italian dave]

1 minute ago, Sheltons Army said:

Reread the thread - the debate and my post above

Yeah, I know, when it suits you're trying to be selective about who you count as a SL appointment! 

Im with @Alex_BCFC on that: as the thread title says this is "bigger picture" and in terms of judging  SLs tenure as owner and SC was appointed during his tenure. I have no idea what went on behind the scenes for any of the appointments.

I've said my piece about LJ above. I think history will judge his period here as a success. I just hope it's not as the pinnacle of our success during SLs ownership but with the current direction of travel there's a risk it may? 

[BTRFTG]

14 hours ago, The Constant Rabbit said:

I don't think I have ever read a post that is so wrong, on so many levels.

The club has no assets. The ground is not the clubs asset. Or the land. Or the houses. Or the offices. Or the new estates at AV.

The club exists on paper only.

Why? Because Lansdown owns EVERYTHING listed above.

You do know that City PAY Lansdown rent to play at AG - yes?

It's about the Real estate, stupid. (Plagerised from an American president).

The amount of fans who have absolutely no idea of the financial set up and separation between Club and physical assets is staggering.

 

Or to make it easier for you - have a look at the prices of the Flats at AG.

The leases on the offices at AG

The price of the new homes on AV

The revenue from non-matchday income from the Arena (after change of use PP), the Hotels when finished, the 'Commercial alleyway' - plus the mooted micro-brewery and food production units that will supply all the above.

Every house sale, every lease signed, every room booked, every convention filled, every concert performed - EVERY SINGLE PENNY GOES TO SL

 

Not the club - as we no longer own it, or the land it sits on.

So many people keep trying to explain this  but it just won't sink in to some of you.

Lansdown has spent £200m - and that comes out of interest earned on his own made money (fair play to him)

He has bought everything listed above with that money - it's all his.

And it's worth north of £1.5 BILLION now.

 

Do you get it now?

 

Stephen Lansdown , according to Forbes, is currently the  1001st RICHEST PERSON ON THE PLANET

£200 million is nothing to him, especially over 20 years.   Chump change.

 

https://www.forbes.com/profile/stephen-lansdown/?sh=56c79b5250b0

Congratulations on what has to be one of the most patronising posts this forum has ever seen. One which conveys lots of information yet wholesale confusion and contradiction.

You really didn't need to explain the numerous entities established in and around AG are mostly to the benefit of SL. We have to say mostly as other than SL saying he has ownership of Pula and its many entities we don't see the accounts, so don't know. We do know that in respect of the football club both SL & ML own 25% each with, we assume, SL owning the other 50% via the holding.  It's the fact SL mostly  'benefits' (sic) from them all is why people rightly use interchangable language when discussing the football club, stadium, holding company, or any of the various entities level and upward. Why people get hung up by that I'll never understand.

It's also incorrect to state SL has 'spent' £200m. He hasn't. He's financed and bankrolled huge sums but that's how finance and accounting works. The amount he will have 'spent' (irrecoverable) depends upon how much is eventually written off, which by your argument appears not to be anything in the long-term?

Now last time I looked most of the assets and income streams you reference existed only on paper. They aren't there yet, you know, delivering income? If they are to exist I'd suggest one should first reference what the benefit or disbenefits are to there being a football club adjacent? In the case of residential accomodation would occupants pay a premium to have a very short walk to matches they never have intention to watch? Or, perchance like the rest of 'inbounds' to 'Lower Clifton' (sic), might they prefer match-days and troublesome supporters to be a thing of the past? 

Strangely, most business folks who desire to make money by building shops or hotels or conference centres build, er, shops, hotels and conference centres as they tick all the boxes. They tend not to build football stadia disguised as any of the abovementioned. On the other hand stadia owners do like to tack on shops, hotels and conference centres as, otherwise, they've a ****ing huge and expensive asset to run that receives footfall only 30 times a year.

But let's not talk of hypotheticals, let's stick to what's there. The 'cash cow' (sic) that is the stadium operation. The 'cash cow' that LOST £2.7m last year, that has net LIABILITIES to the tune of £23.6m, the entity with fixed assets at £47m (or 18 months current losses to put it in context.) 

Or Bristol Sport, the 'cash cow' (sic) that caused much hilarity amongst Gasheads when strike off notices for its dissolution appeared in The London Gazette. The 'cash cow' (sic) that has net LIABILITIES of £530k and that was sitting on deferred income of around £1.5m (for those who don't understand the term, it refers to the season ticket money you've fronted or have committed but which for accounting reasons hasn't yet been 'released' to the club for services provided. The 'income' that's been coming back into your bank accounts these past 10 months and will be reported as much next period.)

So AG and its assets are worth £1.5bn by your valuation ( I think you've confused with SL's personal wealth that has little to do with any of the entities linked to Bristol,) but I'll run with your argument. So let's add in the liabilities and we assume assets are actually worth nearer £1.7bn. Good news is I spent a few years as the Estates Director of a Government Agency, so know a thing or two about Infrastructure Valuation. You, as well as I, know one key and useful benchmark is Residual Land Value , the measure by which one evaluates development potential. Now by any reasonable measure the RLV on constructing a residential / commercial mix, (densities of occupation, transport prelims et al) would be far higher were AG to be a brown or greenfield site rather than developed over what was once a football stadium. Stadia provide very poor returns on investment. If you don't believe me, ask The FA.

In respect of residential disposals (post recent changes leaseholds should also be considered virtual freeholds,) the Residential Development Margin (profit) averages out at around 17.5% of Gross Development Value (price obtained for all properties sold.) Let's assume the selling price of a residential unit to be £350k. SL would need to sell 3,300 units to recoup the £200m loss you estimate. Once sold they're sold, it's a one-off. To cover the existing rates of operational loss he'd need to sell 500 properties each and every year. Just how big is this site and demand for housing?

You infer a business model that allows for the football club to be a 'loss leader', problem being at £30m a year (operational losses) that's quite a chunk of money when little else is bringing in the bucks. Would the attraction of it being badged with a football association deliver an additional £30m in conference, retail or restaurant income?  I've spent many an hour in conferences at Wembley and The Oval but they weren't chosen for their association to sport, rather they ticked certain boxes in terms of accessibility and pricing. If one were to build a conference centre in Bristol would it be at the largely inaccessible AG, or perchance near a major transport hub?

You've assumed SL's 'loss leader' to be £200m over 20 years which may prove correct, though is only 1/3rd of what existing losses are if not stemmed.

Do I get it now?

Yes, I think I always did.