Derby County

[Hxj]

7 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

season ticket revenue kicks in

The cash may be received, but it creates an obligation in respect of putting matches on next season.  With potential personal liability, there is no prospect of Administrators doing anything other than putting that cash in a different account marked '2022/23 season'.

 

10 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

saw it suggested on their forum a few weeks back

I've seen alot suggested on their forum over the last few years, including Morris playing with EFL puppets 'on strings', purchasers lauded as 'saviours' who turn out to be fake, or publish fake pictures of their wealth, or who get arrested for tax fraud.  Not much evidence of fact finding journalism on there!

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Hxj said:

How to make a burke of yourself in one easy step.  Write nonsense without doing your research.

The Derby County Football Club Limited do not owe Morris a single bean.  They do owe Sevco 5112 Ltd £8.2 million and they do owe Club DCFC Limited £4.1 million.  Those are all the connected party debts I can see.  By way of contrast HMRC are owed £26.6 million.

In a CVA 75% of creditors have to vote for it.  HMRC have more than 25% of the total debt of the company so can simply say no.

As I, and others, have already said, a Cross Class Cram Down is not simply a question of coming up with a plan.  It takes time and lots of cash, neither of which the company has.  Other cases have taken almost a year from starting the process to getting the court sanction.  As far as I am aware none of the cases so far sanctioned involve stripping a preferential creditor of their rights.

 

Thanks, was hoping you’d challenge that…it didn’t sound right.

15 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

There have been suggestions that season ticket revenue kicks in of course, and the central funds thing too absolutely- good point- although saw it suggested on their forum a few weeks back that these would be received at the end of the season.

What season ticket revenue?

https://www.dcfc.co.uk/page/season-tickets

Not got any on sale!!!

[Mr Popodopolous]

6 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Thanks, was hoping you’d challenge that…it didn’t sound right.

What season ticket revenue?

https://www.dcfc.co.uk/page/season-tickets

Not got any on sale!!!

Tbh was going on snippets I read. In theory one or two on Twitter a little while ago suggested that they could put season tickets on sale under administration- how that'd work in practice however is very different probably!

[Bristol Rob]

4 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Tbh was going on snippets I read. In theory one or two on Twitter a little while ago suggested that they could put season tickets on sale under administration- how that'd work in practice however is very different probably!

Would guess any transactions would need to be in cash, as I can't imagine any credit card companies would want a Section 75 claim if they don't start or complete next season.

[Mr Popodopolous]

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/14043371

Looks like Kirchner has set up a new Holding Company although I thought he was reported to be in his 30s.

That aside, what of a) The remaining issues outstanding on the Embargo service, b) The unresolved (or is it resolved now) Wycombe issue. c)  Would this constitute insolvency and transfer to a Newco- how would this align to EFL regs? Control of the Golden Share reverts back to EFL when Insolvency kicks in IIRC.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Also read that Rooney wanted to sign Adebayo from Luton in Jan had a takeover gone through.

I'm sure he did but on the pitch it would have been an undoubted short term step down given the League position and secondly would that have been possible under the Business Plan to June 2022 agreed as part of the settlement?

Luton certainly wouldn't have sold mid-season either IMO.

[Mr Popodopolous]

As I thought, the budget agreed said no Loan Fee, Transfer Fee so how he signs Adebayo in Jan takeover or not that still applied.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/14043371

Looks like Kirchner has set up a new Holding Company although I thought he was reported to be in his 30s.

That aside, what of a) The remaining issues outstanding on the Embargo service, b) The unresolved (or is it resolved now) Wycombe issue. c)  Would this constitute insolvency and transfer to a Newco- how would this align to EFL regs? Control of the Golden Share reverts back to EFL when Insolvency kicks in IIRC.

I guess the setting up of a limited company can be done regardless of whether he does take over Derby.

Think the age was a input error by CH.

[Mr Popodopolous]

39 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I guess the setting up of a limited company can be done regardless of whether he does take over Derby.

Think the age was a input error by CH.

Agreed on both counts.

Yep, can set up a Limited company irrespective- I understand both Gabay and Alonso did (Rams Investment and Rams Sports Management in the case of Gabay and No Limits Sports in the case of Alonso).

The main priority is that the EFL continue to uphold everything for the wider good of the game.

Edited April 17, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous

[Hxj]

So we have now passed the date by when a CVA can be started and finished by the end of the season, and the suggested end of the money.

If the end of the money is as suggested someone will have to fund the company to the tune of around £1.5 million a month to get Derby to the start of next season on 30 July.  Even if season tickets are sold, it is highly unlikely that the proceeds are available to fund the club before the ownership has changed.  So Kirchner, I guess, will need to start funding pretty soon.

 

[chinapig]

25 minutes ago, Hxj said:

So we have now passed the date by when a CVA can be started and finished by the end of the season, and the suggested end of the money.

If the end of the money is as suggested someone will have to fund the company to the tune of around £1.5 million a month to get Derby to the start of next season on 30 July.  Even if season tickets are sold, it is highly unlikely that the proceeds are available to fund the club before the ownership has changed.  So Kirchner, I guess, will need to start funding pretty soon.

 

Kieran Maguire said again this morning that on the basis of his bid HMRC are going to have to compromise their position and that unsecured creditors are going to have to take "an absolute hammering".

Far from a done deal still.

[ScottishRed]

31 minutes ago, chinapig said:

Kieran Maguire said again this morning that on the basis of his bid HMRC are going to have to compromise their position and that unsecured creditors are going to have to take "an absolute hammering".

Far from a done deal still.

I simply cannot see HMRC compromising their position one jot. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

Don't read the Derby forum so much these days but after his latest rant, I do wonder if Gee Screamer !! had some kinda sense of humour bypass, or context one. Perhaps even some combo of the two!

Fans have celebrated relegating an opposing club for some time so it's nothing new is it.

Secondly if you're Pearson, being the manager of a side who put Derby down at their own ground. Given his suspension, sacking, the other rumours such as drones, being undermined by players with a direct line to Mel Morris well you would, wouldn't you.

I could also add NP is from Nottingham (dunno if he supports either side), managed Leicester and played for Sheffield Wednesday although these might be irrelevant considerations of course.

[Sir Geoff]

On 14/04/2022 at 16:51, Mr Popodopolous said:

Tbh was going on snippets I read. In theory one or two on Twitter a little while ago suggested that they could put season tickets on sale under administration- how that'd work in practice however is very different probably!

Who in their right mind would give a company in administration circa £400 cash? Surely not even the most died in the wool fan would be that foolish.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Oh and another quick search played for Middlesbrough too towards the end of his career. Under a certain Mr Gibson.

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, Sir Geoff said:

Who in their right mind would give a company in administration circa £400 cash? Surely not even the most died in the wool fan would be that foolish.

Certainly none on sale currently.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Just now, Sir Geoff said:

Who in their right mind would give a company in administration circa £400 cash? Surely not even the most died in the wool fan would be that foolish.

Depends if it's a thought of survival at all costs, not like a normal business emotionally speaking even though I totally get it.

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Don't read the Derby forum so much these days but after his latest rant, I do wonder if Gee Screamer !! had some kinda sense of humour bypass, or context one. Perhaps even some combo of the two!

Fans have celebrated relegating an opposing club for some time so it's nothing new is it.

Secondly if you're Pearson, being the manager of a side who put Derby down at their own ground. Given his suspension, sacking, the other rumours such as drones, being undermined by players with a direct line to Mel Morris well you would, wouldn't you.

I could also add NP is from Nottingham (dunno if he supports either side), managed Leicester and played for Sheffield Wednesday although these might be irrelevant considerations of course.

I shouldn't bite tbh but it can be tricky at times.

My position, fwiw...

Derby will probably get relegated.

Derby won't go bust.

EFL need to uphold their rules as they represent 72 and not just one.

[Davefevs]

21 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I shouldn't bite tbh but it can be tricky at times.

My position, fwiw...

Derby will probably get relegated.

Derby won't go bust.

EFL need to uphold their rules as they represent 72 and not just one.

So, does that mean - Lg1 with minus 15….plus penalties for any future indiscretions?

[Mr Popodopolous]

10 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

So, does that mean - Lg1 with minus 15….plus penalties for any future indiscretions?

Yes. Provided the bid or structure of the deal doesn't satisfy the EFL then a -15 in what is likely to be League 1 next season is a must.

Plus a Business Plan as Kieran Maguire mentioned when they first went into administration- that acts as both a moral hazard and a punishment IMO- as well as a deterrence.

[chinapig]

31 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

So, does that mean - Lg1 with minus 15….plus penalties for any future indiscretions?

Maguire reckoned Kirchner is trying to persuade the EFL to deduct 15 points this season so he presumably accepts there will be a penalty. But Maguire reckons there is no chance of him getting what he wants.

[Lanterne Rouge]

10 minutes ago, chinapig said:

Maguire reckoned Kirchner is trying to persuade the EFL to deduct 15 points this season so he presumably accepts there will be a penalty. But Maguire reckons there is no chance of him getting what he wants.

Past the cut-off point though aren`t they? If they get away with it then it would be outrageous to say the least.

[ExiledAjax]

Ladies and gentlemen, it's been an honour. In indignation we have discovered our virtue and Derby County Football Club Ltd (in administration) will, if still in existence, play out next season in EFL League 1.

I shall be at Pride Park on Saturday, I shall order a beer, and I shall toast to @havanatopia in memoriam. He started this illustrious discussion in the hope of a just relegation last season. Bureaucracy and fate have conspired to delay it, but the punishment has been served. I hope he is basking in a heavenly warmth today. 

To all who have educated, entertained and informed this thread throughout this season. I thank you and salute you.

Edited April 18, 2022 by ExiledAjax

[1960maaan]

Pretty, init 

[Hxj]

On 25/05/2021 at 05:09, havanatopia said:

Are the Football League hoping this will quietly disappear?

Will Wycombe have to call the legal team in?

Two weeks after the season has ended and the Pride Park club, via its online newspaper mouthpiece, is already arrogantly discussing the seasons new fixtures in the Championship.

Do they know more than the rest of us? have they paid someone off handsomely to ensure the club remain much more attractive to a buyer?

To complete the circle as far as we can Derby have been relegated as a result of the actions of Morris and Pearce, no one else is responsible.

The future of the club is still in serious doubt.  I hope they survive, but not sure what this season and starting next season with no squad and minus 15 points will do to Rooney and the remaining squad if tehy do.

Finally a big thank you to @havanatopia.

[chinapig]

10 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Ladies and gentlemen, it's been an honour. In indignation we have discovered our virtue and Derby County Football Club Ltd (in administration) will, if still in existence, play out next season in EFL League 1.

I shall be at Pride Park on Saturday, I shall order a beer, and I shall toast to @havanatopia in memoriam. He started this illustrious discussion in the hope of a just relegation last season. Bureaucracy and fate have conspired to delay it, but the punishment has been served. I hope he is basking in a heavenly warmth today. 

To all who have educated, entertained and informed this thread throughout this season. I thank you and salute you.

I'll add my thanks to those from whom I have learned so much about finance and property in particular. More fans should take note, these things are so important for the game as a whole.

Please respect the day of national mourning for Derby the media will now declare.

[22A]

On 25/05/2021 at 09:01, italian dave said:

From a purely selfish point of view I’d rather they had a big points deduction next season. 

Your wish was granted! 

[Bristol Rob]

If you have a few days to bother, worth going back to the original posts when Derby entered administration.

They were really quite deluded back then, believing it was a cunning ruse to escape a debt (or something), and having blamed everyone else, it finally sunk it that they are in trouble.

Their general outrage at the thought of Mike Ashley getting involved was a very fluid situation 

[Mr Sno]

5 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

If you have a few days to bother, worth going back to the original posts when Derby entered administration.

They were really quite deluded back then, believing it was a cunning ruse to escape a debt (or something), and having blamed everyone else, it finally sunk it that they are in trouble.

Their general outrage at the thought of Mike Ashley getting involved was a very fluid situation 

Do you have a link to these original posts? I have very little sympathy for them due to their fans behaviour.

[Midred]

Will the offers for a league 1 club be lower now?