The Office (UK): Ipswich Town edition

[exAtyeoMax]

40 minutes ago, Loosey Boy said:

I wonder if the arrogant so and so will be in attendance that night?! 

Unfortunately I won't be but I want to hear the rousing cheers for him over the Radio Bristol airwaves. Three cheers for Mark Ashton…

[LondonBristolian]

59 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

A few thoughts on Ipswich/Mark Ashton.

1) I don't doubt he has learnt from some of his mistakes, of which there were no doubt many. I'm sure his experience (read 'failures') here will be of benefit to Ipswich.

2) McKenna and promotion momentum.

3) Waaaay too early make judgements on any team in the league. 2, 3 games without a win and you drop very quickly from the top 6.

4) Hard to know what his exact involvement in transfers at Ipswich is vs. what it was here. Could be much less in terms of player identification for example. Likewise we don't know how much he is 'supervised' or not by his now bosses vs. what SL did here.

5) We don't know what budgets/expectations are at Ipswich. Will a season or 2 in the championship push them towards FFP limits for example with an overloaded squad? Remember it took several years for his mess to unfold here and almost a year after he left for us to fully appreciate the full picture/shit show of his time here. 

We know the Ipswich fans love him, TBF he has seemingly delivered, so far. But don't forget, he was always loud and proud when things were good here, less so when it got tough....

 

The issue for me is he was a gambler. For all the flak he gets, the gambles generally went well for us up until the end of 2019. But a season of poor transfer business, the pandemic and a managerial gamble that didn't pay off showed that it was all built on foundations of sand. So for me, the test of whether he's learned and whether he's good for Ipswich is not so much what happens when things are going well but how the club's set up for the long-term.  Hopefully - even if Ipswich don't go up this season - he's not taking financial risks with the club's future in the same way he did with us. 

[One Team]

1 hour ago, petehinton said:

He absolutely will be. And I don’t think he’ll be welcomed with open arms in the box/hospitality either…

A Section 82 banner display would be good!

[Davefevs]

3 hours ago, Lrrr said:

He rolled the dice with Ipswich's finances and got lucky they went up last season, if not they'd have been ****** and be asset stripping

Yep, you told me they would’ve had to lose people.

[Sleepy1968]

1 hour ago, One Team said:

A Section 82 banner display would be good!

Maybe Chelsea could send a letter of thanks and a shirt - we could present them to MA during the game.

PS No real issues with the three signing except maybe Palmer, who it appears LJ flip-flopped on. But we seemed to pay well over the odds both in terms of transfer fees and wages, when I'm sure there were better alternatives had we'd had a better recruitment policy. MAs look at me aren't I great statement signings.

[Tinmans Love Child]

I saw this stat on Sky:

No club in Sky Bet Championship history has picked up 27 or more points from their first 11 games and failed to win promotion that season.  

Ipswich Town have 28 and Leicester 30 after 11 games!

[luke_bristol]

3 minutes ago, Tinmans Love Child said:

I saw this stat on Sky:

No club in Sky Bet Championship history has picked up 27 or more points from their first 11 games and failed to win promotion that season.  

Ipswich Town have 28 and Leicester 30 after 11 games!

Just shows the league might not be as tight as it was last season, which feels more and more like a missed opportunity to sneak into the play offs

[Harry]

36 minutes ago, luke_bristol said:

Just shows the league might not be as tight as it was last season, which feels more and more like a missed opportunity to sneak into the play offs

Nah, it’ll still be very tight this year. 
Leicester will seemingly run away with it. 
I can’t see Ipswich keeping up the current form. Fair play to them so far but I look at their squad and I actually wonder how they’re doing it at the moment. Decent championship players yes, but I honestly can’t see a top 2 spot for them. 
Maybe if Leeds or Southampton get things together they might get a gap in 2nd place, but I still think that pretty much everyone else are very even - anyone can and will beat anyone else. 
It’ll still be very tight from 3rd or 4th right down to 12th or 13th. 

Edited October 13, 2023 by Harry

[Northern Red]

31 minutes ago, Harry said:

Nah, it’ll still be very tight this year. 
Leicester will seemingly run away with it. 
I can’t see Ipswich keeping up the current form. Fair play to them so far but I look at their squad and I actually wonder how they’re doing it at the moment. Decent championship players yes, but I honestly can’t see a top 2 spot for them. 
Maybe if Leeds or Southampton get things together they might get a gap in 2nd place, but I still think that pretty much everyone else are very even - anyone can and will beat anyone else. 
It’ll still be very tight from 3rd or 4th right down to 12th or 13th. 

I do think Leeds might click and get 2nd, but everything below that is wide open.

[Redland]

I am sure that I am not the only one who has been waiting for newly promoted lpswich’s  bubble to burst but following yet another win yesterday they appear to be relentlessly marching on to automatic promotion to the Premier League.

Under their new US owners I believe Ashton was headhunted and has been given relatively free rein to run the club and the appointment of McKenna as manager has proved to be inspired. In contrast I think there is little doubt that the managerial appointments at City of Keith Millen, Lee Johnson and Dean Holden were driven by Steve Lansdown and Ashton had the unenviable job of presenting these underwhelming decisions to the fans and media. When he made comments along the lines of the “outstanding candidate“ being appointed what was he supposed to say? He could hardly say “well, it was Steve’s decision, so you better ask him.“

Similarly I am sure that it was SL’s decision to persist with LJ for over four and a half years including a remarkable period that saw the club “achieve” a new record for the number of successive league defeats.

The fact that we no longer even have a CEO provides further indication where the footballing decisions are made at our club.

As the season progresses I can’t help but feel envious of Ipswich and wonder if the previous criticism of Mark Ashton on this forum is justified. I certainly think it is reasonable to ask why he has been so successful at Ipswich and not here.

Incidentally a good mate of mine is an Ipswich fan and whilst they have a more successful history than us they are not a “fashionable’ club and I always think of them as a similar club to City. There is still a long way to go but I wish them all the best for the rest of the season.

[Silvio Dante]

7 minutes ago, Redland said:

As the season progresses I can’t help but feel envious of Ipswich and wonder if the previous criticism of Mark Ashton on this forum is justified.

Yes.

[cidercity1987]

Can't wait for Leeds to overtake them, then lose to Southampton in the play offs and McKenna gets headhunted by Crystal Palace.

We will see how the financial situation plays out thereafter

[Tim Monaghan]

13 minutes ago, Redland said:

I am sure that I am not the only one who has been waiting for newly promoted lpswich’s  bubble to burst but following yet another win yesterday they appear to be relentlessly marching on to automatic promotion to the Premier League.

Under their new US owners I believe Ashton was headhunted and has been given relatively free rein to run the club and the appointment of McKenna as manager has proved to be inspired. In contrast I think there is little doubt that the managerial appointments at City of Keith Millen, Lee Johnson and Dean Holden were driven by Steve Lansdown and Ashton had the unenviable job of presenting these underwhelming decisions to the fans and media. When he made comments along the lines of the “outstanding candidate“ being appointed what was he supposed to say? He could hardly say “well, it was Steve’s decision, so you better ask him.“

Similarly I am sure that it was SL’s decision to persist with LJ for over four and a half years including a remarkable period that saw the club “achieve” a new record for the number of successive league defeats.

The fact that we no longer even have a CEO provides further indication where the footballing decisions are made at our club.

As the season progresses I can’t help but feel envious of Ipswich and wonder if the previous criticism of Mark Ashton on this forum is justified. I certainly think it is reasonable to ask why he has been so successful at Ipswich and not here.

Incidentally a good mate of mine is an Ipswich fan and whilst they have a more successful history than us they are not a “fashionable’ club and I always think of them as a similar club to City. There is still a long way to go but I wish them all the best for the rest of the season.

Yes. But as always with our fans, if your face doesn’t fit…

[richwwtk]

At one point with Ashton in place we were riding high in the Championship, had just beaten Man Utd to reach the semi final of the League Cup, we were being cast a lot of envious glances by other teams and being justifiably described as a Premier League team in waiting.

Then Frankie got sent off against Wolves and somehow the whole house of cards began to tumble.....

[Sturgess]

17 minutes ago, Ghost Rider said:

Yes. But as always with our fans, if your face doesn’t fit…

… We’re going ballistic, Mav?

Edited December 10, 2023 by Sturgess

[Andy082005]

35 minutes ago, Redland said:

I am sure that I am not the only one who has been waiting for newly promoted lpswich’s  bubble to burst but following yet another win yesterday they appear to be relentlessly marching on to automatic promotion to the Premier League.

Under their new US owners I believe Ashton was headhunted and has been given relatively free rein to run the club and the appointment of McKenna as manager has proved to be inspired. In contrast I think there is little doubt that the managerial appointments at City of Keith Millen, Lee Johnson and Dean Holden were driven by Steve Lansdown and Ashton had the unenviable job of presenting these underwhelming decisions to the fans and media. When he made comments along the lines of the “outstanding candidate“ being appointed what was he supposed to say? He could hardly say “well, it was Steve’s decision, so you better ask him.“

Similarly I am sure that it was SL’s decision to persist with LJ for over four and a half years including a remarkable period that saw the club “achieve” a new record for the number of successive league defeats.

The fact that we no longer even have a CEO provides further indication where the footballing decisions are made at our club.

As the season progresses I can’t help but feel envious of Ipswich and wonder if the previous criticism of Mark Ashton on this forum is justified. I certainly think it is reasonable to ask why he has been so successful at Ipswich and not here.

Incidentally a good mate of mine is an Ipswich fan and whilst they have a more successful history than us they are not a “fashionable’ club and I always think of them as a similar club to City. There is still a long way to go but I wish them all the best for the rest of the season.

The one common denominator throughout 25 years of under achieving is the Lansdown family 

The quicker they sell up and move on the better 

[richwwtk]

11 minutes ago, Andy082005 said:

The one common denominator throughout 25 years of under achieving is the Lansdown family 

The quicker they sell up and move on the better 

How is it 25 years of under achieving? You would be hard pushed to find a 25 year period in our history where our average league placing was higher.

We haven't been wildly successful, I will grant you that but seeing as most of our time has been spent as a yoyo between Championship and League 1 level we are now firmly established as a mid table Championship club with a better platform than we have ever had to push on.

Be careful what you wish for when the Lansdowns move on. You might think there is disconnect between the club and the fans now, it will only get worse...

[jambodinho]

Ipswich signed a silly amount of players when Ashton first arrived. A continuation of what he was doing here. Trading as he calls it. He hasn’t really been there that long but he’s already had to pay off a number of players that were signed by himself. It didn’t really go well under Paul Cook. The “trading” has slowed right down under McKenna. Maybe MA’s realised that he’s hit the jackpot in appointing him as head coach and is trying to stay out of the way. I remember Ipswich fans getting concerned by the lack of signings in the summer but if McKenna is of the same opinion as Nigel Pearson, that you don’t just bring in players for the sake of it, that they need to be an improvement on what you already have, then maybe Ashton has had to change his ways so that he doesn’t upset McKenna. 
If they go up this year then fair play to them. Incredible achievement. But if they don’t, and McKenna gets poached, they could be in a mess. He really seems to be the real deal. When you think of the likes of Wes Burns, Ladapo, Kayden Jackson, Luongo, Morsy, Lee Evans, Harness, Cameron Burgess, Dominic Ball, Sone Aluko, Hladky. Most of those either spent the majority of their careers in league 1/2 or were squad players at  other championship clubs. Not sure I’d particularly want any of them at City but KMc has got them all on board with his system and has them flying. Very impressive. 

Edited December 10, 2023 by jambodinho

[Mike Stone]

4 minutes ago, richwwtk said:

How is it 25 years of under achieving? You would be hard pushed to find a 25 year period in our history where our average league placing was higher.

We haven't been wildly successful, I will grant you that but seeing as most of our time has been spent as a yoyo between Championship and League 1 level we are now firmly established as a mid table Championship club with a better platform than we have ever had to push on.

Be careful what you wish for when the Lansdowns move on. You might think there is disconnect between the club and the fans now, it will only get worse...

Spot on 

[Silvio Dante]

I posted a few days ago that I think the appointment of Manning was in a lot of ways a reaction to what’s happening at Ipswich, both in terms of it being the latest thing that brings success (see Luton) and that there would be a part of the Lansdowns who look at Mark Ashton in harness with a head coach and think “hey, we were right after all”

As Fevs said in that thread, the trouble is that’s viewing the outcome and not the process. It seems McKenna is just exceptionally good and following the same approach may not give the same result.

[Red-Robbo]

15 minutes ago, jambodinho said:

Ipswich signed a silly amount of players when Ashton first arrived. A continuation of what he was doing here. Trading as he calls it. He hasn’t really been there that long but he’s already had to pay off a number of players that were signed by himself. It didn’t really go well under Paul Cook. The “trading” has slowed right down under McKenna. Maybe MA’s realised that he’s hit the jackpot in appointing him as head coach and is trying to stay out of the way. I remember Ipswich fans getting concerned by the lack of signings in the summer but if McKenna is of the same opinion as Nigel Pearson, that you don’t just bring in players for the sake of it, that they need to be an improvement on what you already have, then maybe Ashton has had to change his ways so that he doesn’t upset McKenna. 
If they go up this year then fair play to them. Incredible achievement. But if they don’t, and McKenna gets poached, they could be in a mess. He really seems to be the real deal. When you think of the likes of Wes Burns, Ladapo, Kayden Jackson, Luongo, Morsy, Lee Evans, Harness, Cameron Burgess, Dominic Ball, Sone Aluko, Hladky. Most of those either spent the majority of their careers in league 1/2 or were squad players at  other championship clubs. Not sure I’d particularly want any of them at City but KMc has got them all on board with his system and has them flying. Very impressive. 

 

I think that's the key:

Ashton + weak management = overspends & bloated squad; Ashton + competent management = success

[KegCity]

18 minutes ago, richwwtk said:

How is it 25 years of under achieving? You would be hard pushed to find a 25 year period in our history where our average league placing was higher.

We haven't been wildly successful, I will grant you that but seeing as most of our time has been spent as a yoyo between Championship and League 1 level we are now firmly established as a mid table Championship club with a better platform than we have ever had to push on.

Be careful what you wish for when the Lansdowns move on. You might think there is disconnect between the club and the fans now, it will only get worse...

Is there a trophy for that?

Edited December 10, 2023 by KegCity

[GrahamC]

55 minutes ago, cidercity1987 said:

Can't wait for Leeds to overtake them, then lose to Southampton in the play offs and McKenna gets headhunted by Crystal Palace.

We will see how the financial situation plays out thereafter

Looking at their results over 20 games now I reckon you’ll be waiting a long time.

They are on a roll even better than ours under GJ in 2007/8.

As for Ashton, I despise him & Watford fans don’t like him either.

Maybe Ipswich have a system where his excesses are kept in check, under SL we sure didn’t.

On a related note I’m surprised no one has mentioned Fleetwood’s recent run, absolutely horrific, LJ looks in big trouble already (again).

[transfer reader]

Just now, KegCity said:

Is there any silverware for that?

They might not be prestigious, but I believe we've won 3 trophies in that time.

[Red-Robbo]

3 minutes ago, KegCity said:

Is there a trophy for that?

No, but he's got a point. It means gates about 80% up or more on the period immediately preceding it, and away trips to places like Elland Road and the Stadium of Light, rather than the Broadhall Way or the New Meadow.  Consistent second tier football has allowed the infrastructure to expand and improve.

It's just the Lansdowns haven't a clue how to make that final step to achieve their ultimate stated goals. 

[GrahamC]

59 minutes ago, Ghost Rider said:

Yes. But as always with our fans, if your face doesn’t fit…

Engvall, Watkins, Adelakun, Palmer, Gimartin, Nagy.

Off the top of my head that’s over £10m spent (God knows what on wages) on nothing.

Ashton was good at selling high but the excessive, scatter gun spending of his era left us in real danger of failing FFP & with no assets to sell to solve this until Pearson came in.

Maybe Ipswich know his limits & have a structure that works but it isn’t that his face didn’t fit, he was a slippery individual who went missing when things went bad & was hated at Watford.

Much of this is on Steve Lansdown too who still appears to think an era when we spent about £180 for every £100 we earned (& never challenged even for the playoffs) was a success.

Gould is a big miss, we are well shot of Ashton whatever happens at Ipswich.

[Rob k]

5 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Engvall, Watkins, Adelakun, Palmer, Gimartin, Nagy.

Off the top of my head that’s over £10m spent (God knows what on wages) on nothing.

Ashton was good at selling high but the excessive, scatter gun spending of his era left us in real danger of failing FFP & with no assets to sell to solve this until Pearson came in.

Maybe Ipswich know his limits & have a structure that works but it isn’t that his face didn’t fit, he was a slippery individual who went missing when things went bad & was hated at Watford.

Much of this is on Steve Lansdown too who still appears to think an era when we spent about £180 for every £100 we earned (& never challenged even for the playoffs) was a success.

Gould is a big miss, we are well shot of Ashton whatever happens at Ipswich.

I also think he gets more praise than he deserves for ‘selling high’

In still not overly convinced we got more for our players than what we should have 

[tin]

23 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Looking at their results over 20 games now I reckon you’ll be waiting a long time.

They are on a roll even better than ours under GJ in 2007/8.

As for Ashton, I despise him & Watford fans don’t like him either.

Maybe Ipswich have a system where his excesses are kept in check, under SL we sure didn’t.

On a related note I’m surprised no one has mentioned Fleetwood’s recent run, absolutely horrific, LJ looks in big trouble already (again).

Exactly that IMO. He had the keys to the kingdom at Ashton Gate and due to SL’s neglect, he was accountable to nobody. At Ipswich, I’d guess the Americans expect ROI and therefore his wings have been clipped. He still had the spending spree on players last year, but appears to have struck gold with McKenna.  

[glynriley]

You can always tell when there is a collective downer on OTIB. 
 

1. Our young players are all shit and need a league 1 loan. 
2. Our older players are all over the hill. 
3. Mark Ashton wasn’t so bad after all.

As has been pointed out, the Lansdowns are the problem, the common denominator. Forget any thoughts about promotion while they are here, especially now Jon is seeking the council of a failed previous manager. The blood pressure will be a lot lower as a result. 
 

[And Its Smith]

Bizarre opening post. So if I get sacked for underperformed and then go somewhere else and perform well, my current company might have been wrong to sack me despite my poor performance?  It literally makes no sense