The Office (UK): Ipswich Town edition

[Redland]

25 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Engvall, Watkins, Adelakun, Palmer, Gimartin, Nagy.

Off the top of my head that’s over £10m spent (God knows what on wages) on nothing.

Ashton was good at selling high but the excessive, scatter gun spending of his era left us in real danger of failing FFP & with no assets to sell to solve this until Pearson came in.

Maybe Ipswich know his limits & have a structure that works but it isn’t that his face didn’t fit, he was a slippery individual who went missing when things went bad & was hated at Watford.

Much of this is on Steve Lansdown too who still appears to think an era when we spent about £180 for every £100 we earned (& never challenged even for the playoffs) was a success.

Gould is a big miss, we are well shot of Ashton whatever happens at Ipswich.

Yes, I appreciate that Ashton spent a lot of money but presumably the players he signed were wanted by whoever was the manager at the time.

[bearded_red]

In the main, no. The criticism was not unjustified. 
 

The only slight caveat to that, was I did feel at the time that there seemed to be a large section of fans that held him totally responsible for the utter mess we got into and allowed Steve Lansdown and Lee Johnson to get off scot-free. The main person responsible was always obviously Lansdown for allowing such shambolic overspending and Johnson, as he is currently proving once again, is an absolute fraud of a football manager who was never going to achieve anything regardless of how many millions you endlessly throw at him.

Luckily, two of the people named have now left the club, I eagerly await the day Steve Lansdown joins them.

Edited December 10, 2023 by bearded_red

[KegCity]

43 minutes ago, transfer reader said:

They might not be prestigious, but I believe we've won 3 trophies in that time.

All won at league one level? Huge achievement for the club that’s been trying and failing to finish in the play offs of the championship for nearly 20 years.

 

35 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

No, but he's got a point. It means gates about 80% up or more on the period immediately preceding it, and away trips to places like Elland Road and the Stadium of Light, rather than the Broadhall Way or the New Meadow.  Consistent second tier football has allowed the infrastructure to expand and improve.

It's just the Lansdowns haven't a clue how to make that final step to achieve their ultimate stated goals. 

Exactly. Which is why “consistent championship football” should be the bare minimum. 

[fisherrich]

1 hour ago, Andy082005 said:

The one common denominator throughout 25 years of under achieving is the Lansdown family 

The quicker they sell up and move on the better 

Post of the Day!!

[jambodinho]

1 minute ago, Redland said:

Yes, I appreciate that Ashton spent a lot of money but presumably the players he signed were wanted by whoever was the manager at the time.

Pretty sure Lee Johnson insinuated or was possibly even quoted somewhere as saying he didn’t sign/want Szmodzics. The fact he never played the likes of Engvall, Adelukan, Mo Eisa, Szomdics suggest that the manager didn’t want them. We also signed a shed load of random youngsters like Tin Plavotic, Rory Holden and Johnny Smith under Ashton that were never going to be near the first team. That never happened before Ashton and hasn’t continued since he left. Not sure who’s master plan it was to think we could replicate Chelsea in signing a load of youngsters, loan them out then try to flog them at a profit. Ultimately Ashton was given far too much freedom to do what he wanted and that has taken the last few years to sort out. 

[transfer reader]

2 minutes ago, KegCity said:

All won at league one level? Huge achievement for the club that’s been trying and failing to finish in the play offs of the championship for nearly 20 years.

 

Exactly. Which is why “consistent championship football” should be the bare minimum. 

As wa said to you, we had a better average finishing position than most of out history in that time.

You asked about silverware and we got that too.

You seem to want it both ways.

[The Original OTIB]

1 hour ago, cidercity1987 said:

Can't wait for Leeds to overtake them, then lose to Southampton in the play offs and McKenna gets headhunted by Crystal Palace.

We will see how the financial situation plays out thereafter

Think Palace or more likely Burnley will act sooner.

[headhunter]

21 minutes ago, tin said:

Exactly that IMO. He had the keys to the kingdom at Ashton Gate and due to SL’s neglect, he was accountable to nobody. At Ipswich, I’d guess the Americans expect ROI and therefore his wings have been clipped. He still had the spending spree on players last year, but appears to have struck gold with McKenna.  

That is the root cause of the problem. He does appear to be more accountable to his Masters in East Anglia.

[Redland]

6 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Bizarre opening post. So if I get sacked for underperformed and then go somewhere else and perform well, my current company might have been wrong to sack me despite my poor performance?  It literally makes no sense 

Not bizarre at all. I think it’s perfectly reasonable to wonder why Ashton has been able to succeed at Ipswich when he was unable to achieve similar success here. 

To use your example, if we released a player or sacked an employee who then went on to achieve great things I think it would be unrealistic not to recognise this.

[fisherrich]

Ashton and the Lansdowns came as a “package” of failure.

One half has gone, just waiting for the other half to get out of Ashton Gate.

[Numero Uno]

48 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

No, but he's got a point. It means gates about 80% up or more on the period immediately preceding it, and away trips to places like Elland Road and the Stadium of Light, rather than the Broadhall Way or the New Meadow.  Consistent second tier football has allowed the infrastructure to expand and improve.

It's just the Lansdowns haven't a clue how to make that final step to achieve their ultimate stated goals. 

Unfortunately, that will be the legacy when it all comes to an end.........unless Jon can surprise us all in this final roll of the dice by the family.

[GrahamC]

20 minutes ago, Redland said:

Yes, I appreciate that Ashton spent a lot of money but presumably the players he signed were wanted by whoever was the manager at the time.

We’ll never know the answer to that.

Certainly rumours that Szmodics, Adelakun & Nagy weren’t wanted by LJ.

[exAtyeoMax]

1 hour ago, Silvio Dante said:

I posted a few days ago that I think the appointment of Manning was in a lot of ways a reaction to what’s happening at Ipswich, both in terms of it being the latest thing that brings success (see Luton) and that there would be a part of the Lansdowns who look at Mark Ashton in harness with a head coach and think “hey, we were right after all”

As Fevs said in that thread, the trouble is that’s viewing the outcome and not the process. It seems McKenna is just exceptionally good and following the same approach may not give the same result.

plus they rebuilt in League One. We can't afford to rebuild in the Championship as they did in League One.

[Numero Uno]

Unfair criticism? The *** didn't get anywhere enough for my liking. That is all.

[redsquirrel]

could be as simple as the owners at ipswich know what they are doing and dont sanction all of ashtons whims

[richwwtk]

1 hour ago, KegCity said:

Is there a trophy for that?

It included our first league chamionshop for 60 years....

[fisherrich]

2 minutes ago, redsquirrel said:

could be as simple as the owners at ipswich know what they are doing and dont sanction all of ashtons whims

You beat me to it, whereas the Lansdowns ……

[Bazooka Joe]

26 minutes ago, bearded_red said:

I eagerly await the day Steve Lansdown joins them.

Me too.

But, spare a thought for poor, little abandoned Lansdown Jnr.

What would he do? Where would he go?

[Barrs Court Red]

He left us as a ticking time bomb financially, and regularly went into hiding  when things weren’t going so well - so yes, absolutely deserving of criticism. 
 

Not alone in creating the mess, but certainly holds a majority share in the blame. 

[Kid in the Riot]

2 minutes ago, Barrs Court Red said:

He left us as a ticking time bomb financially

For me the vast majority of the blame for that though should be put at Steve Lansdown’s door. I mean the bloke is literally a financial advisor, presumably an extremely good one, given his level of success in the finance sector. 

He knew exactly what he was doing during that time, and what the consequences would be if we failed to get promoted. 

[jambodinho]

31 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

We’ll never know the answer to that.

Certainly rumours that Szmodics, Adelakun & Nagy weren’t wanted by LJ.

We might find out the answers once Lee Johnson writes his books

[redsquirrel]

39 minutes ago, jambodinho said:

We might find out the answers once Lee Johnson writes his books

id prefer it if jonboy did one,wouldnt need my glasses to read it, probs be illustrated aswell

[And Its Smith]

1 hour ago, Redland said:

Not bizarre at all. I think it’s perfectly reasonable to wonder why Ashton has been able to succeed at Ipswich when he was unable to achieve similar success here. 

To use your example, if we released a player or sacked an employee who then went on to achieve great things I think it would be unrealistic not to recognise this.

Chuck enough shit at the wall and sometimes it sticks

[chinapig]

3 hours ago, jambodinho said:

Ipswich signed a silly amount of players when Ashton first arrived. A continuation of what he was doing here. Trading as he calls it. He hasn’t really been there that long but he’s already had to pay off a number of players that were signed by himself. It didn’t really go well under Paul Cook. The “trading” has slowed right down under McKenna. Maybe MA’s realised that he’s hit the jackpot in appointing him as head coach and is trying to stay out of the way. I remember Ipswich fans getting concerned by the lack of signings in the summer but if McKenna is of the same opinion as Nigel Pearson, that you don’t just bring in players for the sake of it, that they need to be an improvement on what you already have, then maybe Ashton has had to change his ways so that he doesn’t upset McKenna. 
If they go up this year then fair play to them. Incredible achievement. But if they don’t, and McKenna gets poached, they could be in a mess. He really seems to be the real deal. When you think of the likes of Wes Burns, Ladapo, Kayden Jackson, Luongo, Morsy, Lee Evans, Harness, Cameron Burgess, Dominic Ball, Sone Aluko, Hladky. Most of those either spent the majority of their careers in league 1/2 or were squad players at  other championship clubs. Not sure I’d particularly want any of them at City but KMc has got them all on board with his system and has them flying. Very impressive. 

Yes, his first season there, when he was constantly bigging himself up, was a failure.

My sense is that the owners reined him in so he was less involved in football matters and certainly doing less of the self love.

In our case Steve let him run riot with dire consequences. Though Steve will never admit that of course.

[fisherrich]

1 hour ago, Kid in the Riot said:

For me the vast majority of the blame for that though should be put at Steve Lansdown’s door. I mean the bloke is literally a financial advisor, presumably an extremely good one, given his level of success in the finance sector. 

He knew exactly what he was doing during that time, and what the consequences would be if we failed to get promoted. 

People who I know who worked for HL, say John Hargreaves was all the brains behind the business. Makes sense to most. John H lived out near us for a while and came across as a very shrewd guy.

[View from the Dolman]

8 minutes ago, fisherrich said:

People who I know who worked for HL, say John Hargreaves was all the brains behind the business. Makes sense to most. John H lived out near us for a while and came across as a very shrewd guy.

Sounds like your associates weren't particularly attentive people - it's Peter Hargreaves who was a co-founder of HL.

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 hours ago, GrahamC said:

We’ll never know the answer to that.

Certainly rumours that Szmodics, Adelakun & Nagy weren’t wanted by LJ.

Szmodics post us has gone onto quite decent things in terms of goal return etc especially at Blackburn, also unsure we saw the best of Nagy..getting injured 1.5 games in never helps and the usual chopping and changing thereafter by LJ doesn't help anyone really.

[Kid in the Riot]

17 minutes ago, fisherrich said:

People who I know who worked for HL, say John Hargreaves was all the brains behind the business. Makes sense to most. John H lived out near us for a while and came across as a very shrewd guy.

Peter. A very different personality to Steve too. More of an extrovert and very chatty. I once spoke to him for a few minutes whilst we were both naked. 

[Jeez]

Maybe now it’s more acceptable to believe that MA actually had little influence in the appointment of LJ & Deano.  

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

As to the wider question in addition to McKenna seemingly being very good.

Ipswich and their owners possibly reined him in, tightened his remit perhaps. I don't like him, he and Lee Johnson left us in an almighty hole that Gould and NP did exceptionally well to dig us out of without FFP sanctions or relegation.

1) Maybe he is limited to dealing with agents, and aspects of commercial growth.

2) Plus the Football side in the sense of not identifying players but the financial side but with stricter oversight from the Owners and a budget that is stretched less.

Last season's accounts will be instructive but they don't seem to have gone nuts this summer. TV money rises by millions on promotion. Not PL millions but perhaps £7-9m.

Edited December 10, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous