The Office (UK): Ipswich Town edition

[Silvio Dante]

28 minutes ago, firstdivision said:

It’s not just Ipswich though, Silvio. Quite a few clubs are going for the younger coaching ‘guru’ type (eg, Swed and QPR. Indeed, Oxford to replace Manning). Brighton went down that route a while back. So too Swansea. 

Yeah good point and not disputing it. The issue that brings is an interesting one - a lot of those younger coaches have a similar ethos - possession heavy, waiting for mistakes. The problem is that if everyone is playing the same way either the coach has to be “the best” or the players have to be “the best” for it to work. It’s also not a style that fosters excitement (in the short term at least).

Tactically, the “batch” of coaches are interesting so I see why people like them. But I’m not sure what gives individual coaches the edge when they all seem to have gone to the same school.

[lenred]

2 hours ago, KegCity said:

From a league we shouldn’t have dropped into in the first place! We were in the championship when Lansdown took over, took a backwards step getting relegated, recovered by getting back into the championship and have got nowhere since. I’ll be the first to admit we recovered in style, it would be better if we hadn’t filled the squad with overpaid journeymen and not got relegated in the first place.

Not letting the stadium fall down to me is the bare minimum from the owner. I appreciate not every owner can say they’ve done that but it’s not a massive ask. Lansdown bailing himself out after losing big chunks of money isn’t much of an achievement to me either. We could of course be in a much worse position, but we could be in a much better one. We’ve seen enough “smaller” clubs not have to have a fire sale every summer just to tread water shoot past us into the Premier League.

Glad someone’s said it.  Alway makes me cringe this ‘league champions’ and ‘double winners’ stuff.  It’s tinpot.  Like you say we shouldn’t even have been there.   

[BCFC31]

I'd be amazed if Ipswich doesn't get back to back promotion they were by far the best side I have seen down ashton gate for a long time you have to admire what's going on down there absolutely class stuff couldn't stand mark ashton but it's working treat for him there 

[redysteadygo]

Is it now that after learning his trade at former clubs MA is just the bean counter and the recruitment is down to knowledgeable personnel within Ipswich FC and his involvement is on the financial aspects of trading where he royally f*cked up at Ashton Gate.

[ITFC Fan in peace]

ITFC fan in peace.

The FFP thing comes up a lot on here, and seems to be by far the biggest criticism of Ashton. When listening to Ashton in interviews here though, two things he says stick in my mind:-

1) He mentioned in previous interviews that the danger for owners is to run the club on emotion when the 'promised land' seems tantalisingly close. You were in a great position to get promoted a few seasons ago and pushed the spending button. I'm sure Ashton didn't oppose it, but ultimately it was the Lansdowns money and I'm sure they had the final say. I think the Lansdowns are who he is referring to when he spoke of emotions.

2)  Ashton has repeatedly said how refreshing it is that McKenna has such specific profiles in respect of transfer targets that he will not move away from and would rather make do than sign a makeweight. I think Ashton just enjoys the challenge of obtaining a transfer target and seems to be pretty good at it, but I can see how that could be dangerous when recruiting for a manager who is less skilled at identifying the right targets (compare with Paul Cook, who wasn't bad at all but had a few misses and no real philosophy behind his targets) or a Harry Redknapp approach (yeah hes a good player get him in).

I'm not saying Ashton was totally blameless.....he had a key role with you, and should have been the voice of caution and reason at a critical time. But if he did have the go ahead to spend from the Lansdowns, and he merely signed players the manager wanted at the time, is it really fair to pin everything on him? Throw in Covid, and it just seems more like a mixture of throwing the dice and a lot of misfortune.

Genuinely wish you guys all the best for the rest of the season.

[fisherrich]

25 minutes ago, ITFC Fan in peace said:

ITFC fan in peace.

The FFP thing comes up a lot on here, and seems to be by far the biggest criticism of Ashton. When listening to Ashton in interviews here though, two things he says stick in my mind:-

1) He mentioned in previous interviews that the danger for owners is to run the club on emotion when the 'promised land' seems tantalisingly close. You were in a great position to get promoted a few seasons ago and pushed the spending button. I'm sure Ashton didn't oppose it, but ultimately it was the Lansdowns money and I'm sure they had the final say. I think the Lansdowns are who he is referring to when he spoke of emotions.

2)  Ashton has repeatedly said how refreshing it is that McKenna has such specific profiles in respect of transfer targets that he will not move away from and would rather make do than sign a makeweight. I think Ashton just enjoys the challenge of obtaining a transfer target and seems to be pretty good at it, but I can see how that could be dangerous when recruiting for a manager who is less skilled at identifying the right targets (compare with Paul Cook, who wasn't bad at all but had a few misses and no real philosophy behind his targets) or a Harry Redknapp approach (yeah hes a good player get him in).

I'm not saying Ashton was totally blameless.....he had a key role with you, and should have been the voice of caution and reason at a critical time. But if he did have the go ahead to spend from the Lansdowns, and he merely signed players the manager wanted at the time, is it really fair to pin everything on him? Throw in Covid, and it just seems more like a mixture of throwing the dice and a lot of misfortune.

Genuinely wish you guys all the best for the rest of the season.

I think point 2 is key. Bristol City had next to no scouted potentials at the time, just a “scattergun approach” - oh he’s available, let’s buy him was how it appeared (which Ashton did), with no structure to the Plan.

Squad was then bloated in players that just weren’t good enough. And in the meantime, the true quality players were sold.

The rest is history. We need new owners badly.

I have a lot of respect for Ipswich and sincerely hope you go up.

[exAtyeoMax]

32 minutes ago, ITFC Fan in peace said:

ITFC fan in peace.

The FFP thing comes up a lot on here, and seems to be by far the biggest criticism of Ashton. When listening to Ashton in interviews here though, two things he says stick in my mind:-

1) He mentioned in previous interviews that the danger for owners is to run the club on emotion when the 'promised land' seems tantalisingly close. You were in a great position to get promoted a few seasons ago and pushed the spending button. I'm sure Ashton didn't oppose it, but ultimately it was the Lansdowns money and I'm sure they had the final say. I think the Lansdowns are who he is referring to when he spoke of emotions.

2)  Ashton has repeatedly said how refreshing it is that McKenna has such specific profiles in respect of transfer targets that he will not move away from and would rather make do than sign a makeweight. I think Ashton just enjoys the challenge of obtaining a transfer target and seems to be pretty good at it, but I can see how that could be dangerous when recruiting for a manager who is less skilled at identifying the right targets (compare with Paul Cook, who wasn't bad at all but had a few misses and no real philosophy behind his targets) or a Harry Redknapp approach (yeah hes a good player get him in).

I'm not saying Ashton was totally blameless.....he had a key role with you, and should have been the voice of caution and reason at a critical time. But if he did have the go ahead to spend from the Lansdowns, and he merely signed players the manager wanted at the time, is it really fair to pin everything on him? Throw in Covid, and it just seems more like a mixture of throwing the dice and a lot of misfortune.

Genuinely wish you guys all the best for the rest of the season.

What is so galling is that Cotts and Keith Burt scouted to a plan in League One and built a fantastic team, then it was more or less ripped apart by SL, LJ and MA in the Championship, replacing them with "clubs in the bag" type players, some ok but some not, he also increased the wage bill massively. 

[Merrick's Marvels]

It would be very "Bristol City" if we dispensed with an employee only for them to speed past us in no time at all, straight to the Premier League.

Just something else to add to the list marked "You couldn't make it up".

There is such a thing as being promoted too quickly though. But good luck to them, if not him.

And, yes, there's also not being promoted quickly enough. We are world champions at that one.

Edited December 11, 2023 by Merrick's Marvels

[GrahamC]

2 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

It would be very "Bristol City" if we dispensed with an employee only for them to speed past us in no time at all, straight to the Premier League.

Just something else to add to the list marked "You couldn't make it up".

Good luck to them, if not him.

Wouldn’t it also shine a light on the total incompetence of the Lansdowns?

I despise Ashton but it is obvious that he has certain skills when reined in.

He was in my opinion a disaster for us, the question for Guernsey (like he cares any more) is why didn’t it work for us but is doing so in Suffolk.

 

[1960maaan]

1 minute ago, GrahamC said:

Wouldn’t it also shine a light on the total incompetence of the Lansdowns?

I despise Ashton but it is obvious that he has certain skills when reined in.

He was in my opinion a disaster for us, the question for Guernsey (like he cares any more) is why didn’t it work for us but is doing so in Suffolk.

 

You could be very close to the truth. 

All about balance , he was rightly criticised before MA and told he needed a "football" man in. Unfortunately he got Ashton and gave him the keys to the ranch. 

It seems to go Steve is either too full on or too distanced .

[Merrick's Marvels]

3 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Wouldn’t it also shine a light on the total incompetence of the Lansdowns?

I despise Ashton but it is obvious that he has certain skills when reined in.

He was in my opinion a disaster for us, the question for Guernsey (like he cares any more) is why didn’t it work for us but is doing so in Suffolk.

 

Yes, I think the Ipswich fan touches on it above - the logical conclusion is that the owners here and their wonderboy Lee Johnson were not good enough or clever enough and had no clear plan how to succeed (Johnson’s "clubs in the bag" philosophy is the giveaway - "can I have one of everything please sir, just in case"). Whereas over there they have owners with a clearer plan and certainly a superior manager. Working within clearly defined parameters, Ashton has made more good signings than bad and is also getting a lot more bang for the Yankee owners buck than Guernsey ever did for his. He also appears to be unable to sign players over the manager's head now, which has to be a good thing. "I could write a book" Johnson once said, well he might have time to do that sooner rather than later the way Fleetwood are going.

[The Nest Egg]

On 10/12/2023 at 15:34, lenred said:

Glad someone’s said it.  Alway makes me cringe this ‘league champions’ and ‘double winners’ stuff.  It’s tinpot.  Like you say we shouldn’t even have been there.   

I just refer to it as the s**t double

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

Mark Ashton- really nice bloke and I'm pleased he's proving his worth at Ipswich. Shame he didn't finish the job at BCFC but our best talent in whatever department eventually gets poached by a bigger club.

[Northern Red]

[alexukhc]

So it was LJ all along n not Ashton, oh 

[Bristol Rob]

5 hours ago, ITFC Fan in peace said:

ITFC fan in peace.

 

Just when, exactly, did an away fan go on another clubs message board with nefarious intentions?

If you were registered as 'ITFC with genocide in mind', I might have read your post, (which to be fair, I will do in a bit), but this whole 'in peace' nonsense really boils my urine.

As you were.

[fgrsimon]

On 10/12/2023 at 08:37, GrahamC said:

Looking at their results over 20 games now I reckon you’ll be waiting a long time.

They are on a roll even better than ours under GJ in 2007/8.

As for Ashton, I despise him & Watford fans don’t like him either.

Maybe Ipswich have a system where his excesses are kept in check, under SL we sure didn’t.

On a related note I’m surprised no one has mentioned Fleetwood’s recent run, absolutely horrific, LJ looks in big trouble already (again).

I still think Leeds will hunt them down eventually this season. Bigger, better squad, more intimidating ground/support and every club will have a losing wobble at some point, Leeds have already had theirs (start of season).

Yeah Lee Johnson lost 3-0, 3-0, 4-0 3-0 and 3-0 in last 5 games, it's officially a 'streak'! Next games v Peterborough and Pompey.... has a manager ever been sacked twice before Christmas?

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

I hope Ipswich get a normal share of injuries. Might put them down a peg.

https://www.twtd.co.uk/forum/571546/page:2

Ashton did us damage, was indulged too much and Player Trading to underpin was a crazy strategy.

Edited December 13, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Street red]

On 11/12/2023 at 17:27, ITFC Fan in peace said:

ITFC fan in peace.

The FFP thing comes up a lot on here, and seems to be by far the biggest criticism of Ashton. When listening to Ashton in interviews here though, two things he says stick in my mind:-

1) He mentioned in previous interviews that the danger for owners is to run the club on emotion when the 'promised land' seems tantalisingly close. You were in a great position to get promoted a few seasons ago and pushed the spending button. I'm sure Ashton didn't oppose it, but ultimately it was the Lansdowns money and I'm sure they had the final say. I think the Lansdowns are who he is referring to when he spoke of emotions.

2)  Ashton has repeatedly said how refreshing it is that McKenna has such specific profiles in respect of transfer targets that he will not move away from and would rather make do than sign a makeweight. I think Ashton just enjoys the challenge of obtaining a transfer target and seems to be pretty good at it, but I can see how that could be dangerous when recruiting for a manager who is less skilled at identifying the right targets (compare with Paul Cook, who wasn't bad at all but had a few misses and no real philosophy behind his targets) or a Harry Redknapp approach (yeah hes a good player get him in).

I'm not saying Ashton was totally blameless.....he had a key role with you, and should have been the voice of caution and reason at a critical time. But if he did have the go ahead to spend from the Lansdowns, and he merely signed players the manager wanted at the time, is it really fair to pin everything on him? Throw in Covid, and it just seems more like a mixture of throwing the dice and a lot of misfortune.

Genuinely wish you guys all the best for the rest of the season.

Luck? We need more than that this season at the minute it is going down the toilet. We are not a happy bunch at the minute thanks for trying to sweeten Ashton up but I couldn't give a rats arse about him.The Lansdowns and him set this club back but agree the Lansdowns are the issue and it's all starting to come out of the wash what they are like.

Cracking start to your season let's see if you keep the momentum for the rest.

Edited December 13, 2023 by Street red

[Dan11]

14 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I hope Ipswich get a normal share of injuries. Might put them down a peg.

https://www.twtd.co.uk/forum/571546/page:2

Ashton did us damage, was indulged too much and Player Trading to underpin was a crazy strategy.

We are fortunate we've not had any bone injuries (breaks etc) that are somewhat outside of our control but there is no luck about us being able to avoid muscle injuries. Since Rolls and his team came across from you guys they've been exceptional. We also recruited Ivan Mukandi (ex Arsenal, head of strength and conditioning) and Matt Allen (ex Spurs, head of athletic performance). We've invested properly in this area and gone from a club that could never keep players fit to one where we rarely get injuries. There's no coincidence there. We seem to be able to manage players before they get an injury - Broadhead is the most obvious example, his minutes are very closely managed. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

3 hours ago, Dan11 said:

We are fortunate we've not had any bone injuries (breaks etc) that are somewhat outside of our control but there is no luck about us being able to avoid muscle injuries. Since Rolls and his team came across from you guys they've been exceptional. We also recruited Ivan Mukandi (ex Arsenal, head of strength and conditioning) and Matt Allen (ex Spurs, head of athletic performance). We've invested properly in this area and gone from a club that could never keep players fit to one where we rarely get injuries. There's no coincidence there. We seem to be able to manage players before they get an injury - Broadhead is the most obvious example, his minutes are very closely managed. 

Here it went badly wrong but maybe there is something deeper, Idk. Clearly avoiding injuries is important.

Nothing against Ipswich but Mark Ashton...

Going to stick my neck out and say I don't think Ipswich woukd be 2nd or setting new records certainly with the normal level of injuries. Let alone the amount we have had, not saying we would be 2nd or anything if swapped around but our injury thread is testament to out situation.

Yes managing a tricky situation before it unfolds is often of use.

There must be an element of luck to it though as well because our situation has been challenging for 5 or 6 seasons now, maybe 7 regardless of staff, including some of those now at Ipswich. 

[Dan11]

49 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Here it went badly wrong but maybe there is something deeper, Idk. Clearly avoiding injuries is important.

Nothing against Ipswich but Mark Ashton...

Going to stick my neck out and say I don't think Ipswich woukd be 2nd or setting new records certainly with the normal level of injuries. Let alone the amount we have had, not saying we would be 2nd or anything if swapped around but our injury thread is testament to out situation.

Yes managing a tricky situation before it unfolds is often of use.

There must be an element of luck to it though as well because our situation has been challenging for 5 or 6 seasons now, maybe 7 regardless of staff, including some of those now at Ipswich. 

I think it goes without saying that any team that can't keep their best players fit isn't going to be as successful. There might be a small element of luck but most of it is down to staff, facilities and analysis of data around red zones etc - it's definitely not finger in the air and hope players stay fit. 

We couldn't keep Adam Webster fit for a prolonged run of games at Ipswich. I can't remember if Ashton said this when he was with you or it's something he's said since he was here, but he knew we under invested in our medical team/facilities and backed Bristol City to be able to keep him fit. You did and then sold him for 7/8 times what you paid us!

[The Humble Realist]

Dont know if we need to eat humble pie over Ashton. He was a huge problem in many ways during his time here , including alienating a large part of the fan base with his demeanour. 

Dont forget the Holden debacle was firmly his own doing.

 

[Fuber]

On 10/12/2023 at 07:46, richwwtk said:

At one point with Ashton in place we were riding high in the Championship, had just beaten Man Utd to reach the semi final of the League Cup, we were being cast a lot of envious glances by other teams and being justifiably described as a Premier League team in waiting.

Then Frankie got sent off against Wolves and somehow the whole house of cards began to tumble.....

Add in LJs Tombola.

I hated Ashton's mannerisms, but with him poaching Probert he evidently actually had an eye for staff. The more time that passes and the better Ipswich do, the more I consider in contect that the buck starts to stop more with the ownership and LJ.

Still an ego-centric tit mind.

[Port Said Red]

On 13/12/2023 at 18:52, Mr Popodopolous said:

I hope Ipswich get a normal share of injuries. Might put them down a peg.

https://www.twtd.co.uk/forum/571546/page:2

Ashton did us damage, was indulged too much and Player Trading to underpin was a crazy strategy.

It was just around Xmas when the wheels fell off the Ashton train when he was here, let's see if history repeats itself.

[Mr Popodopolous]

4 hours ago, Port Said Red said:

It was just around Xmas when the wheels fell off the Ashton train when he was here, let's see if history repeats itself.

Could happen. The rate at which they are going and accumulating points however I would have thought playoffs at worst.

We never had a 10 point cushion over 3rd either. Nothing close- possibly over the playoffs at some points.

Edited December 15, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[The Humble Realist]

According to the commentator in the Ipswich v norwich game Ashton had McKenna on a shortlist for the job here. 

I call classic Mark Ashton BS. 

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

I do hope Ipswich start to slip and slide, lose in the playoffs and then the fun could begin. Their position looks a very strong one though and they have a budget as per Nixon of £3m for a striker in January, wage up to £15k per week.

I'm intrigued as to how they complied with the SCMP because their wages exceeded turnover in 2021-22. Was limited to football wages as 60% wasn't it...or was it owner input at that level.

McKenna though seems a brilliant acquisition. Some of Ashton and his worse traits seem to have been forcibly reined in but it defies many many rational sets of analysis looking at the Ipswich squad and seeing 52 pts from 22 games at this level.

Slight bitterness aside, they are player for player overachieving somewhat for the level IMO. Momentum and confidence can be a powerful factor too of course.

Edited December 19, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mr Popodopolous]

Found an old post on an Ipswich forum early on in Ashton's tenure. If this is broadly accurate they're absurdly ahead of schedule.

7 year plan is fairly generous for an Arizona Pension Fund entering a loss making industry with some strict FFP regs.

Edited December 19, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Redrascal2]

57 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I do hope Ipswich start to slip and slide, lose in the playoffs and then the fun could begin. Their position looks a very strong one though and they have a budget as per Nixon of £3m for a striker in January, wage up to £15k per week.

I'm intrigued as to how they complied with the SCMP because their wages exceeded turnover in 2021-22. Was limited to football wages as 60% wasn't it...or was it owner input at that level.

McKenna though seems a brilliant acquisition. Some of Ashton and his worse traits seem to have been forcibly reined in but it defies many many rational sets of analysis looking at the Ipswich squad and seeing 52 pts from 22 games at this level.

Slight bitterness aside, they are player for player overachieving somewhat for the level IMO. Momentum and confidence can be a powerful factor too of course.

It would seem to me that Ashton is managed at Ipswich as opposed to the lack of oversight  when he  was here .Jon Lansdown  was playing with crayons all day and Steve had turned his back on the running of the club. At Ipswich they use Ashton's talents but control it and ensure he follows their plan.