Poor Old Everton

[MarcusX]

3 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Why can't the ref's association just bring in a rule for a few months so that when a player asks for a yellow to be given the Ref gets his card out of his pocket and says "no problem, here YOU go..........". That might stop it reasonably quickly I would have thought.

probably covered under Misconduct or unsporting behaviour

[Jerseybean]

Going to be interesting to see this unfold

Burnley

Watford (A)

Aston Villa (H)

Tottenham (A)

Aston Villa (A)

Newcastle (H)

Everton

Chelsea (H)

Leicester (A)

Watford (A)

Brentford (H)

Crystal Palace (H)

Arsenal (A)

[Numero Uno]

7 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

probably covered under Misconduct or unsporting behaviour

Well if it is covered I would be doing it if I was reffing.

[Robbored]

5 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

is waving an imaginary card worse then specifically asking the ref to book someone? Half the time it could just be language barrier with foreign players. If you think the Brits don’t ask the ref to book people then you’re silly. it happens in every single game at every level.

I’ll happily admit I do it, as captain I am in the refs ear the whole game (politely) because you’ll be amazed how much you get just for shouting first / loudest. If someone does something that’s an obvious yellow ie booting the ball away to waste time / stop an attempt to play quickly or standing in front of a free kick when you take it I’ll definitely point it out.

Not so much with tackles to be honest though, that’s a bit more subjective - unless they’ve clearly gone in 2 feet up or dangerous.

Its part of the game, if you don’t do it the other team will. It just looks worse to a fan when you see someone waving an imaginary card because you don’t hear the rest of it

It’s been several decades since I played competitive football but I can remember players getting in the refs ear all the time  back then but I don’t remember seeing anyone waving an imaginary yellow card, nor do I remember ever seeing that at AG - not ever in over 5 decades.

As I posted just now it’s foreign thing. Loads of European players do it as do the Latino’s.

[elhombrecito]

11 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Why can't the ref's association just bring in a rule for a few months so that when a player asks for a yellow to be given the Ref gets his card out of his pocket and says "no problem, here YOU go..........". That might stop it reasonably quickly I would have thought.

I was under impression that this was already the case, but never seems to be enforced. 

[Numero Uno]

1 minute ago, elhombrecito said:

I was under impression that this was already the case, but never seems to be enforced. 

Such an easy thing to enforce and once players start missing games when other bookings are taken into account you can guarantee Managers will put a stop to it.

[Sheltons Army]

21 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Why can't the ref's association just bring in a rule for a few months so that when a player asks for a yellow to be given the Ref gets his card out of his pocket and says "no problem, here YOU go..........". That might stop it reasonably quickly I would have thought.

I thought waving an imaginary card was a bookable offence , it seems that the enforcement of it has waned

[BS4 on Tour...]

3 hours ago, redapple said:

So 20 teams out of 30 have gone back up to the Premiership. Two Thirds of teams. That basically means there’s only One Promotion Place available for non Premiership Clubs. Fare ? 

I dunno what you mean by 20 out of 30? Anyhow, whatever you mean it’s less than 20 - my list of 10 was just an example, I said there were more - eg Middlesbrough, Blackpool, Bournemouth etc ... in addition to my initial example list of 10 clubs these have also been recently relegated from the premier league with parachute payments and haven’t made it back ... and there’s probably yet more examples ... eg if Sheffield United don’t go up this season you can add them to the ever growing list ...

Edited April 24, 2022 by BS4 on Tour...

[BS4 on Tour...]

2 hours ago, RedM said:

Come on Liverpool, I want a new ground next season

Surely the one Mr Lansdown built for £40m+ is good enough for you?!

[BS4 on Tour...]

1 hour ago, David Brent said:

Every so often we get a reminder of the amount of Liverpool fans we have

@Davefevs being one of the most committed ‘pool fans on here ...

[Nogbad the Bad]

1 hour ago, David Brent said:

Every so often we get a reminder of the amount of Liverpool fans we have

A few avowed Everton/BCFC fans too iirc.

A Jackie loving poster from a pub in the Whiteladies area springs to mind, plus WTFiGO? (What......ever happened to him?) said he used to go up there a few times a season.

Wonder what they make of the prospect of Everton visiting AG in the league next season?

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

@Davefevs being one of the most committed ‘pool fans on here ...

Red raw tonight….

[RoystonFoote'snephew]

43 minutes ago, cityloyal473 said:

My mistake- slightly above average. The man, the myth, the Frank Lampard. 

You really do have a downer on Lampard don't you, but I suppose jealousy is a human trait. 

[Kid in the Riot]

1 hour ago, elhombrecito said:

Racist, much? 

Unlike those saintly English players who never dive, feign injury, or ask for yellow cards...

It's true that English players behave in this way now too.

However, diving/play-acting is definitely a South American import to the European and English game. 

[Fordy62]

Let me settle this…

 

Lampard was in the top 2% of English midfielders of his era. His goal scoring was especially commendable. He was a great premier league footballer  

As a manager he’s done nothing and I’d liken him being given the Chelsea/Everton jobs to LJ getting the Bristol City job. Absolutely nothing to justify it. 

[Bristol Rob]

 

[chinapig]

12 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

It's true that English players behave in this way now too.

However, diving/play-acting is definitely a South American import to the European and English game. 

West Germany were notorious for it in the 60s, particularly Helmut Haller.

[Fordy62]

Everton had one job to do to avoid relegation:

Don’t appoint Frank Lampard. 

[P'head Red]

1 hour ago, cityloyal473 said:

Frank Lampard “world class”. Dear deary me. 

I’ll say he was above average. That’s about it. 

I think you're in a very small minority here, but it's a game of opinions I suppose. 

[Akira]

1 hour ago, cityloyal473 said:

My mistake- slightly above average. The man, the myth, the Frank Lampard. 

Whilst I don't rate him as a manager, please do elaborate on the so-called 'myth' of him being an outstanding player? 

The stats speak for themselves as evidence to back that up. 

[BanburyRed]

On the weekend that one of the founder members of the Premier League gets relegated to Non League, oh the irony of one of the 'big clubs' getting relegated to the Championship.....

[David Brent]

3 hours ago, Super said:

Great isn't it. Who wants to support the Manc clubs and the London Clubs?

Mancs and Londoners, probably 

[Midred]

11 minutes ago, BanburyRed said:

On the weekend that one of the founder members of the Premier League gets relegated to Non League, oh the irony of one of the 'big clubs' getting relegated to the Championship.....

Just be Arsenal and Liverpool surviving from the 60's.

Sorry, there was football before 1992?

[BS4 on Tour...]

3 hours ago, DaveInSA said:

I couldn’t be happier. I dislike Everton. Only because I think they’ve been so lucky to stay up so many times.

“They’ve been lucky to stay up so many times” - really? In the last 16 premier league seasons they’ve finished:

4th, 11th, 6th, 5th, 5th, 8th, 7th, 7th, 6th, 5th, 11th, 11th, 7th, 8th, 8th, 12th, 10th ... those are the finishing positions of a solid, established premier league club ...

 

[PHILINFRANCE]

1 hour ago, chinapig said:

West Germany were notorious for it in the 60s, particularly Helmut Haller.

So you remember Hansi.

Actually, I used to quite enjoy watching him, and Uwe.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Just been watching MOTD2 highlights, 1st penalty shout definitely not, but the 2nd? Definitely could have been. Stronger shout than the 1st anyway IMO.

[Superjack]

4 hours ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

A few avowed Everton/BCFC fans too iirc.

A Jackie loving poster from a pub in the Whiteladies area springs to mind, plus WTFiGO? (What......ever happened to him?) said he used to go up there a few times a season.

Wonder what they make of the prospect of Everton visiting AG in the league next season?

The first one will be me.

I will be gutted. But I have actually never been to Goodison. The closest I have got was Anfield in 94.

It's high on my agenda before it is bulldozed. Looks like I may be in the away end!

[Port Said Red]

If they come down they will be absolutely desperate to get back, there is no way they can afford to fall so far behind Liverpool and the 2 Manchester clubs. 

They will be losing a lot of names anyway, they can wave goodbye to the new ground as well I expect, they could be in for some very tough years.

[sticks 1969]

Still think they will stay up but loved to be proved wrong 

[Fordy62]

31 minutes ago, sticks 1969 said:

Still think they will stay up but loved to be proved wrong 

Still haven’t got over that last day escape at the expense of Wimbledon. Wonder what year that would’ve been? About 1993 I reckon. 

[BS2 Red]

9 hours ago, Midred said:

Just be Arsenal and Liverpool surviving from the 60's.

Sorry, there was football before 1992?

If Everton go down, there will only be 5 left from the 20th Century.

1 Arsenal (1919/20)

2. Liverpool (1962/63)

3. Manchester United (1975/76)

4. Tottenham (1978/79)

5. Chelsea (1989/90)

Next on the list would be:

6. Manchester City (2002/03)

[SecretSam]

I don't particularly like Lampard, although he was a very fine player (FWIW).

But I find it hard to dislike Everton, having met a few of their lot in my time. Always pretty respectful, no big time Charlies. Oddly enough, same goes for 'real' (i.e. Scouse) Liverpool fans. The plastic ones are another matter...

[BS2 Red]

3 minutes ago, SecretSam said:

But I find it hard to dislike Everton, having met a few of their lot in my time.

I don't dislike them at all. But I want them to go down as Bristol City v Everton sounds a lot more fun than Bristol City v Burnley.

[SecretSam]

Just now, BS2 Red said:

I don't dislike them at all. But I want them to go down as Bristol City v Everton sounds a lot more fun than Bristol City v Burnley.

Oh, absolutely. I've never really been to Liverpool, but I hear it's a cracking place for a night out.

Mind you, so's Barcelona 

[Henry]

If they go down, Dyche might finally get the Everton job.

[Super]

9 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Just been watching MOTD2 highlights, 1st penalty shout definitely not, but the 2nd? Definitely could have been. Stronger shout than the 1st anyway IMO.

Had Gordon not dived in first half he may have got that pen. That's what i say about Alex Scott diving and going to ground so easily will cost you when it really matters.

[BS2 Red]

4 minutes ago, SecretSam said:

Oh, absolutely. I've never really been to Liverpool, but I hear it's a cracking place for a night out.

Mind you, so's Barcelona 

Sadly we are more likely to get an away day at Basford United than Barcelona.  

[MarcusX]

14 hours ago, Robbored said:

It’s been several decades since I played competitive football but I can remember players getting in the refs ear all the time  back then but I don’t remember seeing anyone waving an imaginary yellow card, nor do I remember ever seeing that at AG - not ever in over 5 decades.

As I posted just now it’s foreign thing. Loads of European players do it as do the Latino’s.

Some cultures are more expressive and use hand gestures more while talking, that and language differences are probably the reason you see foreign players do it more.

 

 

[Robbored]

4 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

Some cultures are more expressive and use hand gestures more while talking, that and language differences are probably the reason you see foreign players do it more.

That’s complete nonsense Marcus - ‘street craft’ as they see it is part of that culture. They see conning the referee as fair game whereas we see it a downright cheating. Simeone was the perfect example and he’s now encourages his teams to act in the same way and other European managers hate that style.

Pep was brilliant post match after they’d beaten them when he said ‘I have nothing to say’…………….

[MarcusX]

18 minutes ago, Robbored said:

That’s complete nonsense Marcus - ‘street craft’ as they see it is part of that culture. They see conning the referee as fair game whereas we see it a downright cheating. Simeone was the perfect example and he’s now encourages his teams to act in the same way and other European managers hate that style.

Pep was brilliant post match after they’d beaten them when he said ‘I have nothing to say’…………….

I didn't say they don't. I was talking specifically about "waving imaginary cards" - it's no different to a British player saying "c'mon ref, that's got to be a booking" heard on the pitch up and down the country every week.

The rest of it I agree with, some countries are masters of the "dark arts" but our players are getting better at it. Not necessarily just diving, but "buying" a foul is getting more and more common place right down to grassroots and some people are very good at it. Look at Saka against Chelsea the other night - felt an arm on him, so he held onto it and made it look more of a foul than it initially might have been.

Similarly and back on topic, Gordon against Liverpool, put his leg across Trent to create the contact and it's 50/50 whether that gets given or not.

[East Londoner]

I don’t really get the hostility to Lampard both on here and social media. He did a decent job at Derby getting them to the play off final albeit with Chelsea loanees and Mel trying to cheat the system 

But people forget he went into Chelsea whilst under a transfer embargo and brought on a lot of their younger players qualifying for the champions league and laying the foundations for them winning it the next year 

The problems at Everton have been years in the making and the result of bad recruitment followed by more bad recruitment and trying not to live in Liverpool’s shadow 

[2015]

Just now, East Londoner said:

The problems at Everton have been years in the making and the result of bad recruitment followed by more bad recruitment and trying not to live in Liverpool’s shadow 

They're probably the worst run 'big club' in Europe. Some absolutely shocking managerial appointments and player recruitment.

[Shaun Taylor]

I thought the Scoucers go on

 

[Nogbad the Bad]

7 hours ago, Superjack said:

The first one will be me.

I will be gutted. But I have actually never been to Goodison. The closest I have got was Anfield in 94.

It's high on my agenda before it is bulldozed. Looks like I may be in the away end!

Yep. 

I've been to Goodison Park once, this game in '79.

 

Sat up high in that big side stand. Freezing cold, Whitehead scored first, then a hat trick for Andy King and a 4-1 defeat. 'King Andy' as the Everton fan behind me kept saying. Proper traditional ground and fans - you had to keep your head down inside and outside the ground - but they all were in those days.

If Everton go down they'd no doubt lose a few 'stars' (perhaps they need to) but they've always had a good youth system and they'd probably come back quickly and stronger.

As with City under Cotts a season of success, at whatever level, can rejuvenate a club and it's fans. Then it's a case of backing the manager and building on it.

I don't have any strong feelings either way about Everton but their presence in the Championship would certainly make our league more interesting.

Anyway, all speculation, plenty of chances for them to get out of it yet and they'll stay up if they deserve to.

[chinapig]

2 hours ago, East Londoner said:

I don’t really get the hostility to Lampard both on here and social media. He did a decent job at Derby getting them to the play off final albeit with Chelsea loanees and Mel trying to cheat the system 

Iirc Gary Rowett got them to 6th, the same position as Lampard, without the luxury of having Mount, Tomori and Wilson on loan. Should he have been in the frame for the Chelsea job?

[REDOXO]

Everton are enquiring why their Peno shout was not reviewed by VAR. For me it could have gone one way or the other, but I take the point about a review.
 

Either way they have been awful since Benitez left (pretty poor before). I was watching a program that showed how significantly they had outspent Liverpool and yet are utter pony, thus making anyone think their problems have run deep for a long time. 
 

The one constant at the club over many years is Bill Kenwright and it probably doesn’t take to much of a look to come to that conclusion. 
 

Lampard imo is the wrong man. When has he ever had a relegation battle?
 

 

[DaveInSA]

17 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

“They’ve been lucky to stay up so many times” - really? In the last 16 premier league seasons they’ve finished:

4th, 11th, 6th, 5th, 5th, 8th, 7th, 7th, 6th, 5th, 11th, 11th, 7th, 8th, 8th, 12th, 10th ... those are the finishing positions of a solid, established premier league club ...

 

People with their bloody facts, undermining my perceptions and opinions. .

 

[Davefevs]

30 minutes ago, DaveInSA said:

People with their bloody facts, undermining my perceptions and opinions. .

 

Not just “people” but the one and only “Mr Pedant”.

[BCFC Rich]

1 hour ago, DaveInSA said:

People with their bloody facts, undermining my perceptions and opinions. .

 

It's funny I had a similar perception, I think it's shaped from the early days of the Prem when they were often in that position. @BS4 on Tour... If I'm wrong about that too, please don't shatter my illusions that I know a little about football! 

[downendcity]

1 minute ago, BCFC Richard said:

It's funny I had a similar perception, I think it's shaped from the early days of the Prem when they were often in that position. @BS4 on Tour... If I'm wrong about that too, please don't shatter my illusions that I know a little about football! 

About 93 or 94 last game of the season, Everton were 2 down at home against Wimbledon and being relegated when they “miraculously” recovered to win 3-2 and escape the drop.

Suspicions were later cast over the result, following prosecution of the Wimbledon goalie, Hans Seegars, for taking bribes from a betting syndicate to throw games.

[BCFC Rich]

11 minutes ago, downendcity said:

About 93 or 94 last game of the season, Everton were 2 down at home against Wimbledon and being relegated when they “miraculously” recovered to win 3-2 and escape the drop.

Suspicions were later cast over the result, following prosecution of the Wimbledon goalie, Hans Seegars, for taking bribes from a betting syndicate to throw games.

Thank you! I am going to take this to mean me and @DaveInSA have incredible football insight, and intelligence that is not warped by the mere 16 of most recent seasons. 

[22A]

Listening to the Everton fan at work today "Looks like we'll be playing Bristol City next season. At least we've avoided playing the Posh"!

[elhombrecito]

I actually quite like Everton. My first ever football shirt was an Everton shirt (a gift from a friend of my dad's) and Stuart McCall and Pat Nevin were my childhood heroes.

That being said, I'd really like an away trip to Goodison. So... C'mon Burnley!!! 

[East Londoner]

4 hours ago, chinapig said:

Iirc Gary Rowett got them to 6th, the same position as Lampard, without the luxury of having Mount, Tomori and Wilson on loan. Should he have been in the frame for the Chelsea job?

Circumstances got him the Chelsea job as they were under a transfer embargo 

[BanburyRed]

7 hours ago, Shaun Taylor said:

I thought the Scoucers go on

 

I thought everyone in Liverpool, red or blue, loves each other and lives next to each other in sweet harmony? No? Oh. Calm down calm down!

[The Swan and Cemetery]

1 hour ago, elhombrecito said:

I actually quite like Everton. My first ever football shirt was an Everton shirt (a gift from a friend of my dad's) and Stuart McCall and Pat Nevin were my childhood heroes.

That being said, I'd really like an away trip to Goodison. So... C'mon Burnley!!! 

Sure some of these are on earlier pages, but my 3 overriding (addled) memories of the Howard Kendall era, other than a great team:

- classic Hafnia (for all your Danish canned meat needs) kit

- 100% of their goals being Andy Gray diving headers inside the 6 yard box

- a little ledge at the back of the away end where those after more of a periscope view would stand (/teeter)

 

[BS4 on Tour...]

3 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Not just “people” but the one and only “Mr Pedant”.

Steady on Liverpool fan - facts are facts, they are not pedantic ...

[1960maaan]

I was talking earlier about the amount Everton have spent, wasted. When Koeman took over and had money to spend, I was excited for them . My mate, Everton fan , sits next to me at the Gate so had regular conversations. It went from excitement to confusion as they bought 5 "10s" , and we say our recruitment is bad. Anyway, just saw this comparison on Twitter, this proves that a focused and smart recruitment is key, having money is helpful but not everything.

[MarcusX]

On 25/04/2022 at 15:24, REDOXO said:

Everton are enquiring why their Peno shout was not reviewed by VAR. For me it could have gone one way or the other, but I take the point about a review.
 

Either way they have been awful since Benitez left (pretty poor before). I was watching a program that showed how significantly they had outspent Liverpool and yet are utter pony, thus making anyone think their problems have run deep for a long time. 
 

The one constant at the club over many years is Bill Kenwright and it probably doesn’t take to much of a look to come to that conclusion. 
 

Lampard imo is the wrong man. When has he ever had a relegation battle?
 

 

It would have been reviewed though - I did find it odd that the commentators didn't really mention it and it moved on pretty quickly with the game carrying on

[Engvall’s Splinter]

For all the stick Lampard is getting, he’s actually got a better win ratio at Everton than Gerrard has at Villa. Gerrard also has a better squad. 

[elhombrecito]

41 minutes ago, Engvall’s Splinter said:

For all the stick Lampard is getting, he’s actually got a better win ratio at Everton than Gerrard has at Villa. Gerrard also has a better squad. 

Has he though? Admittedly Wikipedia isn't the most reliable of sources, however...

Lampard (33.3%)

Gerrard (36.4%)

[REDOXO]

1 hour ago, MarcusX said:

It would have been reviewed though - I did find it odd that the commentators didn't really mention it and it moved on pretty quickly with the game carrying on

I watched it in the US and the commentators definitely did mention it. 
 

It’s a strange thing. They are English commentators but they are working for NBC. Not sure why the commentary is changed and it’s a bit annoying as we never get JP talking about the City during the game. 

[MarcusX]

12 hours ago, REDOXO said:

I watched it in the US and the commentators definitely did mention it. 
 

It’s a strange thing. They are English commentators but they are working for NBC. Not sure why the commentary is changed and it’s a bit annoying as we never get JP talking about the City during the game. 

On sky Carragher was saying he didn’t think it was a pen, then said it would be a foul anywhere else on the pitch. I don’t recall any mention of VAR checking it and before they finished the replay the game had resumed and Liverpool were on the attack

[Bernard Lerring]

On 25/04/2022 at 19:22, BanburyRed said:

I thought everyone in Liverpool, red or blue, loves each other and lives next to each other in sweet harmony?

They do... Did you not see how on the video how no one, absolutely no one, made any attempt to actually get close to the opposition fans? Preferring instead to shout a bit and just film their rivals 

[BS4 on Tour...]

On 25/04/2022 at 11:18, 2015 said:

They're probably the worst run 'big club' in Europe. Some absolutely shocking managerial appointments and player recruitment.

Which of their recent managerial appointments would you deem ‘absolutely shocking’? These are their managers over the last decade:

David Moyes

Roberto Martinez

Ronald Koeman

Sam Allardyce

Marco Silva

Carlo Ancelotti

Rafael Benitez

There’s some serious CVs amongst that lot and it ain’t the worst list of ex managers I’ve ever seen...

 

 

[Red-Robbo]

Because of childcare issues I rarely attend away games these days, but I'd certainly make an exception for my inaugural visit to Goodison Park.  Would hopefully stay and enjoy an evening out in the 'Pool. 

[Sir Geoff]

Re the penalty incident, I am surprised they didn't mention the stonewall pen they were  denied in the last minute against Man City. A penalty that if converted would have given them a bit of momentum (as well as a point) and ironically have Liverpool top of the league at the moment.

[Sheltons Army]

Now 5 points off safety

 

[Fordy62]

2 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

Now 5 points off safety

 

All in Villa’s hands. Burnley play them twice. 

[Bristol Rob]

3 minutes ago, TomF said:

I have this feeling Leeds are going to go down.  More injures today as well. 

I agree.

My preference would be for an Everton relegation, but I can see Leeds taking the plunge.