Norwich City away match thread

[A Horse With No Name]

9 minutes ago, red colin said:

I am not alone in seeing this,he is not a centre half.

One minute Naismith looks like Bobby Moore, the next minute Taylor Moore. 

[chinapig]

7 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

I understand what you’re saying but I don’t agree.

I think when we talk about the “performance”, we’re generally referring to the collective display from the team - the setup, the tactics, the effort, the intent, the style of play, the entertainment value.

I think the team can get all of the above broadly right - and therefore be considered to have put in a positive performance - but still be undone by individual errors that can’t be attributed to collective failings or poor management. And I think that’s what happened tonight.

Agreed, I remain astonished how Nigel has transformed us into a terrific attacking side, as good as any City team I can remember at this level. Remember under Holden when we would ironically cheer if we had a shot of any kind?

But at the same time we can't simply ignore the repeated individual errors. They have been going on for a long time regardless of personnel but we seem to be just hoping they will somehow just go away. Nigel doesn't seem to be particularly concerned though so maybe it will fix itself somehow.

[And Its Smith]

Just now, The Swan and Cemetery said:

Let’s move Naismith to screen in front… oh hang on, now the wing backs need to be full backs… we don’t want that so let’s make Naismith 1 of 2 centre mids… oh hang on, now his passing angles are completely different and he’s spending his time looking backward as much as forward… his first mistake is a bad one, but every CB on our books will have made that type of mistake, the second one is more Naismith specific, but so are all the positives. Naismith sans errors is Baresi/Hansen playing very well (or something like that) and I never spotted either at the Gate. Replying to you, frustrated with some others! 

We need to stick with Naismith where he is for sure. A big part of how we play. People can’t have it both ways. If he cuts out the silly errors then what a player.  
 

Hope this post is okay @Lew-T !

[downendcity]

36 minutes ago, cidercity1987 said:

I have no idea why the other two spread wide when he's on the ball

They need to back up tighter into him as cover into a corner surely ?

This might be a safer tactic. 

[Sheltons Army]

Just now, The Swan and Cemetery said:

Let’s move Naismith to screen in front… oh hang on, now the wing backs need to be full backs… we don’t want that so let’s make Naismith 1 of 2 centre mids… oh hang on, now his passing angles are completely different and he’s spending his time looking backward as much as forward… his first mistake is a bad one, but every CB on our books will have made that type of mistake, the second one is more Naismith specific, but so are all the positives. Naismith sans errors is Baresi/Hansen playing very well (or something like that) and I never spotted either at the Gate. Replying to you, frustrated with some others! 

Thank you , as far as I’m concerned , you’ve absolutely got it 

Saves me repeating the same to @red colin, although I explained the same a couple of weeks back

You either drop him or persist and accept a risk / reward

Pearson will act,  if and when , he thinks the risk outweighs the reward 

Simply moving him further forward is a cop out

He was recruited for a specific purpose

 

 

[City1970]

23 minutes ago, Finley_Smith10 said:

True. However, it’s good we’re acc giving teams a proper game now. We had spells in that game where we was all over Norwich. Last season we wouldn’t of had a sniff all game. Our record at home is decent tho. Isn’t it 3 clean sheets in a row? 

Agree, 3 clean sheets is definitely a positive and great to see an attacking attitude, but we must reduce the amount of goals we concede as it is putting extra pressure on our strikers.

[Sheltons Army]

6 minutes ago, Dr Balls said:

Nsismith may be nominally played as a central back but he’s clearly not a defender and doesn’t think like a defender (yet?) which is why he keeps giving away these sloppy goals. Either he has to move out to the left and Atkinson come central or we need to work out another way to cover behind him so that he’s not the last man.

Someone earlier suggested that we were playing like Brazil. That always feels like an exaggeration but there are similarities with the 1982 Brazil - brilliant going forward from all over the pitch but not great at the back, always liable to concede goals and ultimately won nothing. Football fans still love Zico, Socrates, Eder, Falcao, Junior but the game they are most remembered for is the one they lost to Italy. Brilliant players, wonderful team but still losers.

It may sound harsh but it would be such a waste if a City team playing this well going forward doesn’t achieve anything tangible this season, which is the risk if we don’t cut out the mistakes at the back.

He actually does a lot of good ‘defending’ Dr Balls

Blocks , headers , challenges

 

His errors come when he’s trying to ‘play’

Of course you can take that away , but we’d be a far less attractive , potent , side 

[red colin]

2 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

Thank you , as far as I’m concerned , you’ve absolutely got it 

Saves me repeating the same to @red colin, although I explained the same a couple of weeks back

You either drop him or persist and accept a risk / reward

Pearson will act,  if and when , he thinks the risk outweighs the reward 

Simply moving him further forward is a cop out

He was recruited for a specific purpose

 

 

Ok we are all sat at home thinking why didn't we get something from that game we were the better side

 

Answer mistakes by naismith 

 

[Fammyfan]

Proud of the lads tonight, we really were able to compete against one of the big teams who are flying atm.

[HappyClapper]

7 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

Thank you , as far as I’m concerned , you’ve absolutely got it 

Saves me repeating the same to @red colin, although I explained the same a couple of weeks back

You either drop him or persist and accept a risk / reward

Pearson will act,  if and when , he thinks the risk outweighs the reward 

Simply moving him further forward is a cop out

He was recruited for a specific purpose

 

 

FWIW I think Naismith will improve his decision making in the medium term. He is clearly an intelligent footballer, but what most people don’t/ choose not to recognise that he is a baby in centre back terms. Certainly has not played regularly in the middle of a 3. He is central to so much that is good about our patterns of play. He has not quite got a handle on the extra risks of being last man but I’m sure it will come. When it does he will be phenomenal.

As an aside I can’t remember the last time I felt so positive after a defeat. Tonight is the performance that has convinced me we are genuine playoff contenders this season.

Edited September 14, 2022 by HappyClapper

[Sheltons Army]

Just now, red colin said:

Ok we are all sat at home thinking why didn't we get something from that game we were the better side

 

Answer mistakes by naismith 

 

So , what’s your solution for Burnley and going forwards 

You obviously don’t get the bit, the irony ,  that the reason you are disappointed we didn’t get something from the game “due to Naismith’ m  having played so well................  (Also significantly ‘due to Naismith’)

[And Its Smith]

1 minute ago, red colin said:

Ok we are all sat at home thinking why didn't we get something from that game we were the better side

 

Answer mistakes by naismith 

 

Take Naismith out of that team and put Kalas in and what is the result? Do we play in the same way? Do we cut teams open as easily ?  Very much opinion as we will never know.  Personally I’d play Naismith 

[AppyDAZE]

5 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Take Naismith out of that team and put Kalas in and what is the result? Do we play in the same way? Do we cut teams open as easily ?  Very much opinion as we will never know.  Personally I’d play Naismith 

Naismith to play, but what is so hard about knowing when you have to just boot the ******* ball?

If in doubt, BOOT, do your stuff the OTHER times, there are plenty of them.

A most odd start to any Bristol City career I can remember.

I'm a fan overall though. I'm sure it will all come good in time.

Edited September 14, 2022 by AppyDAZE

[red colin]

1 minute ago, And Its Smith said:

Take Naismith out of that team and put Kalas in and what is the result? Do we play in the same way? Do we cut teams open as easily ?  Very much opinion as we will never know.  Personally I’d play Naismith 

So would I just not at centre half 

[Dr Balls]

2 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

He actually does a lot of good ‘defending’ Dr Balls

Blocks , headers , challenges

 

His errors come when he’s trying to ‘play’

Of course you can take that away , but we’d be a far less attractive , potent , side 

I don’t disagree but the better defender taking on this role knows when to risk it and when not. At the moment I don’t think he has that quite right, doesn’t appreciate the risks, and he quickly needs to find that balance. He’s not Beckenbauer or Maldini and opposition teams will rightly target him as a potential weak link, which will continue to cost us goals.

[marcofisher]

We are playing great football and just making some silly mistakes. Now is not the time to start messing around with the core principles of how we are doing that, meaning Naismith should keep playing where he is.

[Dr Balls]

2 minutes ago, AppyDAZE said:

Naismith to play, but what is so hard about knowing when you have to just boot the ******* ball. If in doubt, BOOT, Do your stuff the OTHER times, there are plenty of them.

It’s his lack of experience as a centre back that’s why he doesn’t yet appreciate when it’s the right time to just stick it into row Z.

[red colin]

Just now, AppyDAZE said:

Naismith to play, but what is so hard about knowing when you have to just boot the ******* ball. If in doubt, BOOT, Do your stuff the other times.

Exactly nige keeps banging on about stopping the ball going In our net. This means hitting it into stands when needed unfortunately Naismith thinks he is betrer and able to play his way out but is being found out. 

[DaveF]

Easiest way to identify someone who doesn't understand football is to ask if they think moving Naismith into midfield is the solution. 

[Ian M]

Norwich have dominated almost every game this season, even their early defeats. The fact they didn't tonight has given me huge confidence for the rest of the season.

[Dolman_Stand]

44 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

It’s funny how fans can forget that defending is part of the game when describing a performance. You cannot call that performance excellent when you look at the goals we conceded 

You make a good point but to be honest the fact it was a competitive game  against a top opponent where we looked a threat throughout is such an improvement on the last couple of years that fans are quite rightly praising the performance. If we can tighten up at the back and cut the sloppy errors out we are a very good side.

Edited September 14, 2022 by Dolman_Stand

[red colin]

1 minute ago, DaveF said:

Easiest way to identify someone who doesn't understand football is to ask if they think moving Naismith into midfield is the solution. 

Do you know me

[Sheltons Army]

1 minute ago, red colin said:

Exactly nige keeps banging on about stopping the ball going In our net. This means hitting it into stands when needed unfortunately Naismith thinks he is betrer and able to play his way out but is being found out.

 

so for the second goal in particular .......you want him to ‘hit it in the stands’  do you 

[miketh2nd]

41 minutes ago, firstdivision said:

Also, I thought Norwich sat in and tried to hit us on the break, which essentially worked for them. For all our nice football and possession, we didn’t create that many chances, especially in the second half. I never thought we looked like scoring after Antoine’s goal, which came out of nothing. 

 Yep Smith did his homework on us Norwich played like the away team , our pressing was good and we played attacking good looking football on the eye. The Norwich commentary kept saying how narrow they were playing and how much joy we were getting from the flanks. This stopped us supplying the front two .

 Whilst our first goal was from a cross it was from neither of our wingbacks. Then when Semenyo came on we had someone to run at them other but they still defended well, than the goal he didn't get a shot away other than a deflected one at the very end. 

The commentary also noticed how many gaps there are the back and knew they would always have chances. . For me Norwich had the better defence and managed the game better.Norwich should get top two if they keep they keep Pukki/Sargent injury free.

Have to mention  Bentley if it wasn't for him it would of been game over 4-1 mid way through the 2nd half and later in the game saved a great one on one.  

 

 

Edited September 14, 2022 by miketh2nd

[marcofisher]

For those wanting Naismith out of defence: I’m curious to know who you would replace him with that would allow us to still play in the same way and be able to start attacking moves from defence by playing balls through the lines? Because I don’t see another player in our squad who can.

[And Its Smith]

6 minutes ago, AppyDAZE said:

Naismith to play, but what is so hard about knowing when you have to just boot the ******* ball?

If in doubt, BOOT, do your stuff the OTHER times, there are plenty of them.

A most odd start to any Bristol City career I can remember.

I'm a fan overall though. I'm sure it will all come good in time.

Why would he boot it on the second one?  Would have been odd. First one was a miscontrol 

[AppyDAZE]

Just now, Sheltons Army said:

 

so for the second goal in particular .......you want him to ‘hit it in the stands’  do you 

No, but for their first, it wasn't brain surgery.

[DaveF]

1 minute ago, red colin said:

Do you know me

I feel like I understand you based on your posts.

[And Its Smith]

1 minute ago, Dolman_Stand said:

You make a good point but to be honest the fact it was a competitive game  against a top opponent where we looked a threat throughout is such an improvement on the last couple of years that fans are quite rightly praising the performance. If we can tighten up at the back and cut the sloppy errors out we are a very good side.

I agree it was a good performance and worth praise but just can’t see it was excellent. 

[Ian M]

....and it's not as simple as saying Naismith needs to learn to boot it out. On some occasions he doesn't cede possession in a scenario where maybe if he was in a booting it out mindset we would lose that ball forward or pirouette, and then we'd miss out on several good counter attacks that is causing us to pressure teams into conceding themselves.