Norwood's Foul on Williams - Why no Red Card?

[1960maaan]

5 minutes ago, hertsexile said:

Inconsistent officials are the main problem throughout the championship.

And yet they have consistently ignored our Penalty shouts, consistently ignored other teams shthousing and have been consistently poor.

[BCFC11]

1 hour ago, johnheadbcfc said:

I know we all love city but come on Tanners tackle was a red, this isn't the days of Tony Adams and keown you can't fly in like that in todats game.

I don't think anyone has said it wasn't a deserved red?

[Super]

16 minutes ago, 2015 said:

After a good first half, the ref totally lost control in the 2nd and the longer the game went on the worse he got

Blame @Fordy62

[Mr Popodopolous]

Any chance anyone who was watching on Sky, recorded it etc can post the penalty shout we has turned down?

Seems not to be on the highlights. Which is odd, approaching 10 mins those highlights..

Thanks in advance.

[Lrrr]

8 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Nah, even in your picture below, you’re showing the point of impact, not the point where he tried to win the ball.  That’s a subtle different.  He wasn’t trying to scissors him, that’s just the way his body ended up.  It’s mistimed, yeah, you can describe that as reckless, but in o way was the intention to scissor him.  That’s the speed of two players moving towards each other making it look worse.

Two cars hitting each other at 30 mph each is 60mph impact and will look worse (and is worse) than if one car is stationary.

Im not disputing it’s a red, because the red is for what actually happened.

I’m not talking intent, just outcome 

[Alessandro]

7 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Any chance anyone who was watching on Sky, recorded it etc can post the penalty shout we has turned down?

Seems not to be on the highlights. Which is odd, approaching 10 mins those highlights..

Thanks in advance.

I was watching on sky last night - are you talking about the Nahki pen shout?

IMO - it would have been a soft one. Nahki gets slightly ahead of the defender, both players had arms on each other IIRC, ball not really under control and it looked like Wells 'left' his legs trailing looking for contact then went down, quite softly. Think the commentators said, not a penalty. Certainly wasn't stonewall - but you've seen them given!

R.E other key flash points, it's a poor night for the officials - 1) offside goal 2) Norwood red. Generally ref lost control and you could see it coming - Sheff Utd very cynical. 

[Davefevs]

3 minutes ago, Lrrr said:

I’m not talking intent, just outcome 

But it wasn’t a scissor tackle, that’s a very different thing.  That was a mistimed block tackle.  It was reckless because he was susceptible to getting it wrong and his body would follow through.  Which was the outcome.

[Mr Popodopolous]

7 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

I was watching on sky last night - are you talking about the Nahki pen shout?

IMO - it would have been a soft one. Nahki gets slightly ahead of the defender, both players had arms on each other IIRC, ball not really under control and it looked like Wells 'left' his legs trailing looking for contact then went down, quite softly. Think the commentators said, not a penalty. Certainly wasn't stonewall - but you've seen them given!

R.E other key flash points, it's a poor night for the officials - 1) offside goal 2) Norwood red. Generally ref lost control and you could see it coming - Sheff Utd very cynical. 

Bcfc Pezza posted on Twitter, not a penalty IMO having seen it again. Would have been very soft, perhaps simply wrong.

Agree on the officiating though, it was dreadful. Latter stages ref lost control entirely.

[steveybadger]

39 minutes ago, maxjak said:

Sheff U  are full of older pro's well versed in all of the dark Art's.........from bullying, ref intimidation, cheating, time wasting, feigning injury and nasty fouls?   So they'll probably get promoted?    If all of the above traits of their team was not sufficient, the league then gave them the extra bonus of the Ref.Steve Martin.....?    "The Man with No Brains"   Who was manipulated by Utd, and managed to miss not only an offside goal, and a penalty......but the worst foul of the night, which could have been a leg breaker....Norwood had No intention of playing the ball....just taking out the man.

Me bitter?......You'd think? 

You missed standing marginally in an offside position than discreetly shoving Vyner as he jumped .

[GrahamC]

49 minutes ago, Bristol Oil Services said:

Pretty much what Nige said he wants us to be.

Dirty?

Don’t think so.

The last few minutes at West Brom where we kept the ball in their right back area is what he’s referring to.

I have no issue with running the clock down with the ball in play, but repeatedly faking injury, off the ball fouling, relentless time wasting, nope.

[Cowshed]

10 hours ago, Fammyfan said:

No punishment at all, so presumably it was missed….like the offside….like the shirt pulling (by the offside Sharp)

Awful decisions yet again, I seriously hope the ref watches back on this game.

Baffling that there is still no VAR in the Championship. When it comes, we will likely be 10 points better off.

Its not baffling, it costs, and the industry in the championship doesn't cover it yet.

No team would be better off points wise beyond a very short term. Unless you believe there is a conspiracy v Bristol City refereeing error is chance (luck). Luck is a consistent across all teams, luck occurs in even measure where refereeing errors even out across teams over months and seasons.

[GrahamC]

1 hour ago, exAtyeoMax said:

Sky were lapping it up! They thought it was all too amusing…

Who was the summariser?

I remember when we won up there with a late Flint goal (Paterson scored a worldie first half), Michael Brown did that game, I thought he was going to start crying or phone The Samaritans at the final whistle, ridiculously biased.

[W-S-M Seagull]

6 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

Its not baffling, it costs, and the industry in the championship doesn't cover it yet.

No team would be better off points wise beyond a very short term. Unless you believe there is a conspiracy v Bristol City refereeing error is chance (luck). Luck is a consistent across all teams, luck occurs in even measure where refereeing errors even out across teams over months and seasons.

At this point I'm sure there is a conspiracy against us. 

Maybe it goes back to the LJ days when we kept getting letters of apology? Who knows. 

But look how long we've gone without a penalty. When do we ever score goals that shouldn't be goals? We are we always having to talk about having horrendous decisions go against us? 

This has been going on for years now. There is too much to it now to just say we've been unlucky. 

[Cowshed]

6 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

At this point I'm sure there is a conspiracy against us. 

 

Are you really really sure?

How would in this industry where detail down to minutiae is measured would this conspiracy versus one team be missed?

 

[Big C]

I think the refs have got a pool going and that the first one who gives us a penalty needs to get the drinks in 

[Curr Avon]

38 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

Are you really really sure?

How would in this industry where detail down to minutiae is measured would this conspiracy versus one team be missed?

 

On the grassy Knowle. Or is that knoll?

[Clutton Caveman]

11 hours ago, Jacki said:

The ref lost control, like so many do in this league. Both challenges were reds bit of course we get the rough end of all the decisions yet again. The standard of officiating in this league is disgraceful. 

Why are we surprised by the standard of refereeing? Go to any junior game and the ref gets abuse from the parents all game. Move up to youth and players feel free to treat the referee in a way that if it occurred in the work place they would be fired on the spot. Move to adult football and the ref gets verbal abuse and often the threat of physical abuse. Why would anybody take up refereeing? Far less do nowadays and so we have a smaller pool. No surprise that the quality is low. I think we need a major change from the top to the bottom. Only captains can talk to the ref. Any abuse from players is not tolerated, any abuse from the parents of spectators at amateur level and the game is abandoned and if the abuse is repeated the club is suspended for a year. Nobody in any walk of life should have to put up with the treatment referees get. They are human. They turn out at the weekend to get some exercise and enjoy being part of the game they love and get paid almost nothing. If we want better referees we need more, to get more we have to treat them in a better way. End of rant.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Had a quick look at Bristol City news.

It is the Daily Star for one but ott??

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/championship-bristol-city-sheffield-united-28386233

We all know what tabloids are like etc.

Edited November 2, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, steveybadger said:

You missed standing marginally in an offside position than discreetly shoving Vyner as he jumped .

 

and as you say the little nudge too.  Re the nudge, I think you get away with it, but VAR rules out for offside.  It makes no odds what Vyner does afterwards, the offside is first.

[maxjak]

7 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

 

and as you say the little nudge too.  Re the nudge, I think you get away with it, but VAR rules out for offside.  It makes no odds what Vyner does afterwards, the offside is first.

And as can be seen from your still.......the assistant ref is directly in line.  Someone (Utd Fan) claimed that as it was a header by our defender towards his own goal, that then overruled the offside.  You are much more aware of the rules than I am Dave, is there a case for the defender playing the attacker onside for that reason?

[kit]

Sharpe is challenging and involved in the play so he is offside. 

If the other guy was offside when the ball was played and sharpe wasn't in the picture at all then Vyners header would have meant he was then onside if that makes sense.

[maxjak]

29 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Had a quick look at Bristol City news.

It is the Daily Star for one but ott??

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/championship-bristol-city-sheffield-united-28386233

We all know what tabloids are like etc.

Toilet Paper.........anyone see Norwood apologise for his far worse tackle?, at least Tanner (Taylor? tried to play the ball.  Norwood just went straight for the man.  Journo''s who work for comics like the star, do their reports from the local pub, whether it's on TV or not?

4 minutes ago, kit said:

Sharpe is challenging and involved in the play so he is offside. 

If the other guy was offside when the ball was played and sharpe wasn't in the picture at all then Vyners header would have meant he was then onside if that makes sense.

I Geddit.......Thanks.

Edited November 2, 2022 by maxjak

[Mr Popodopolous]

5 minutes ago, maxjak said:

Toilet Paper.........anyone see Norwood apologise for his far worse tackle?, at least Tanner (Taylor? tried to play the ball.  Norwood just went straight for the man.  Journo''s who work for comics like the star, do their reports from the local pub, whether it's on TV or not?

Oh it's a nonsense but anything for those clicks I guess...

[Davefevs]

15 minutes ago, maxjak said:

And as can be seen from your still.......the assistant ref is directly in line.  Someone (Utd Fan) claimed that as it was a header by our defender towards his own goal, that then overruled the offside.  You are much more aware of the rules than I am Dave, is there a case for the defender playing the attacker onside for that reason?

No, the offside comes first.

[Dan Robin]

2 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Any chance anyone who was watching on Sky, recorded it etc can post the penalty shout we has turned down?

Seems not to be on the highlights. Which is odd, approaching 10 mins those highlights..

Not the first time it happens: the club shoul pay more attention on the channel's work, because the numerous refs decisions that go against us could be used as a proof to be showed to EFL/Refs Associations.

[W-S-M Seagull]

17 minutes ago, maxjak said:

And as can be seen from your still.......the assistant ref is directly in line.  Someone (Utd Fan) claimed that as it was a header by our defender towards his own goal, that then overruled the offside.  You are much more aware of the rules than I am Dave, is there a case for the defender playing the attacker onside for that reason?

No, cos Sharp is directly involved in play, hence Vyner having to header it. 

It's just so basic. The ball is being played to him. As the ball is played, Sharp is clearly offside. There can be zero debate about that. It's the most obvious offside you'll ever see. Yet the lino missed it. The flag should have gone up immediately from when the ball was crossed. That's the rules. You don't have to touch the ball to be offside. 

There is absolutely zero excuse for the lino to miss that. 

That Utd fan would only have a point IF Sharp would have been onside. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

6 minutes ago, Dan Robin said:

Not the first time it happens: the club shoul pay more attention on the channel's work, because the numerous refs decisions that go against us could be used as a proof to be showed to EFL/Refs Associations.

Yes good point. There was another big penalty shout that wasn't shown earlier in the season or was maybe last season, although it seemed to be Sky commentary so I dunno who did the final edit.

Sykes red card, well he was clearly obstructed, the Bennett yellow that should habe been red...

When did we last get a major call in our favour, 'Phew, we really got away with one there' kinda thing.

Edited November 2, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous

[W-S-M Seagull]

3 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Yes good point. There was another big penalty shout that wasn't shown earlier in the season, although it seemed to be Sky commentary so I dunno who did the final edit.

Sykes red card, well he was clearly obstructed, the Bennett yellow that should habe been red...

When did we last get a major call in our favour, 'Phew, we really got away with one there' kinda thing.

We just simply don't. We are constantly on the end of bad decisions and we get no luck the other way. It's baffling. 

But we need to be better at controlling our own destiny and then the luck aspect is irrelevant. 

[Cowshed]

40 minutes ago, Clutton Caveman said:

Why are we surprised by the standard of refereeing? Go to any junior game and the ref gets abuse from the parents all game. Move up to youth and players feel free to treat the referee in a way that if it occurred in the work place they would be fired on the spot. Move to adult football and the ref gets verbal abuse and often the threat of physical abuse. Why would anybody take up refereeing? Far less do nowadays and so we have a smaller pool. No surprise that the quality is low. I think we need a major change from the top to the bottom. Only captains can talk to the ref. Any abuse from players is not tolerated, any abuse from the parents of spectators at amateur level and the game is abandoned and if the abuse is repeated the club is suspended for a year. Nobody in any walk of life should have to put up with the treatment referees get. They are human. They turn out at the weekend to get some exercise and enjoy being part of the game they love and get paid almost nothing. If we want better referees we need more, to get more we have to treat them in a better way. End of rant.

The standard of refereeing is high. Refereiing standards in England of similar levels to those in comparatiive lewagues in Europe, Ref efficiency is measured, Refs have to go through a rigorous process of many years to reach championship level, a process that also seems them demoted if their marks and evaluations fall below standards.

Refs will make errors, as did the City player giving the ball away under little pressure with options available last night and Utd score from the possession City conceded. The reaction on here to a pass a youth player could have made? None. 

Double standards?

City failed because the team failed not because a ref made errors and errors above ARE part of football. 

 Projecting failure onto offiicials is a weak mindset. Excuses are not solutions. Excuses are a flight response not a fighters. A major change is needed in footall. Self reflection where people look at themselves rather than projecting blame elsewhere. This should start at the top with respecting the game. It is top to bottom. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

18 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

We just simply don't. We are constantly on the end of bad decisions and we get no luck the other way. It's baffling. 

But we need to be better at controlling our own destiny and then the luck aspect is irrelevant. 

Couple of examples of how it had affected us and yes we score our chances last night, we win. Last night aside...

Hull away- Depending on POV, between 1 and 3 points cost through the penalty. I'm leaning towards 1 as Hull were putting us under some pressure 2nd half, others may argue 3 due to momentum etc.

Wigan away- Bennett yellow, not red. We were winning at that point and it was baking heat, 10 v 11, a goal down 15-20 mins in I think Wigan would have had a problem! As it turned out they came back very strongly but I would argue that the Bennett decision cost us 2 points.

Luton home- Now this didn't cost us as such but again, Sykes straight red. We were cruising at 11 v 11, could have been added to our margin but while the penalty on Atkinson was debatable and the Sykes red just he was clearly sandwiched between 2 not long before. Foul? He doesn't make the challenge, we maybe add to the scoreline. Or Freeman off same time for the shove, again much more comfortable.

That isn't to detract from the fact that Sykes was correctly sent off but at the same time, it shouldn't have reached that point or Freeman should have gone with him.

Sure there are others!! I think a number of our penalty calls this season have been arguable personally, but these clear errors have cost us.

Edited November 2, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous