Where are all the doubters now??

[cidered abroad]

15 minutes ago, Port Said Red said:

Sorry Joe but if you can't see where the difference is in Atkinson, then you need to go and review his past work.

I have been a big fan of his from day one, but even he would probably admit that the "Old Rob" would have struggled to cope with Ched Evans last week or Pukki and Sargent this week. The sheer determination not to be beaten just wasn't quite there before. 

That coupled with Zak being in the form of his life and Matty James in front of them proving why he was such an important signing, has allowed him to change to a formation he prefers. He said he couldn't "trust Rob" and I am sure that hurt, but I would bet good money that they both will admit it had the desired effect. It's been a long time since I was so confident that we would not concede in those last few minutes.

Regarding the time he has had, I think you and @Bar BS3 both mentioned this, I think he had a remit that was as much to do with off the pitch as on it. As a club we needed an evolution not a revolution, the board and some of us with a little inside knowledge could see it happening, others perhaps rightly, were only concerned with what's was happening on the pitch. There was a poster from Leicester City on here 18 months ago saying "stick with him, he will make your club better", and I think he is right. We aren't completely there yet, but I think we 75-85% of what a Pearson team should be.

I would say that "We aren't completely there yet, but I think we are 75-85% of what a successful football club should be."

The most successful clubs are those where decade to decade, the proverbial "tea lady" is as important as the CEO, owner, football manager, players and supporters.

PS. The last sentence is not meant to be sexist or demeaning tlo feminine catering staff. Just my old fashioned language.

Edited February 12, 2023 by cidered abroad

[Barrs Court Red]

I can’t remember what match it was, may have been WBA, may have been sooner; but I wanted off Pearson’s wild ride.

 I hadn’t got to the point where I was vehemently against him, but the end seemed inevitable at some point soon, especially with the fans seemingly starting to get vocal about it.

Having finally found some consistency this side is now showing what it’s all about, and it’s the consistency that has been missing for so long. Too many wonderful performances were followed by woeful ones.  

 

 

[ExiledAjax]

Although yesterday was a fantastic win, and this 9 game unbeaten run is excellent in terms of results, there remain concerns, and there remain reasons we won't get into the play offs.

Defensively we still allow opponents a large number of chances. However they tend to be lower quality, and O'Leary has played well. Combined that means we've been able to keep goals conceded fairly low. But - we are conceding.

Just as we were never as bad as some thought we were in the autumn, we're not as good as some think we are now. Expect the run to finish fairly soon, and for us to then go through the remainder of the season with a fairly typical mix of wins, draws and losses, ultimately finishing in mid table.

[Port Said Red]

2 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Although yesterday was a fantastic win, and this 9 game unbeaten run is excellent in terms of results, there remain concerns, and there remain reasons we won't get into the play offs.

Defensively we still allow opponents a large number of chances. However they tend to be lower quality, and O'Leary has played well. Combined that means we've been able to keep goals conceded fairly low. But - we are conceding.

Just as we were never as bad as some thought we were in the autumn, we're not as good as some think we are now. Expect the run to finish fairly soon, and for us to then go through the remainder of the season with a fairly typical mix of wins, draws and losses, ultimately finishing in mid table.

Everybody allows chances and everybody concedes in this league. There are only 4 teams with a positive goal difference in double figures.

[FNQ]

11 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Although yesterday was a fantastic win, and this 9 game unbeaten run is excellent in terms of results, there remain concerns, and there remain reasons we won't get into the play offs.

Defensively we still allow opponents a large number of chances. However they tend to be lower quality, and O'Leary has played well. Combined that means we've been able to keep goals conceded fairly low. But - we are conceding.

Just as we were never as bad as some thought we were in the autumn, we're not as good as some think we are now. Expect the run to finish fairly soon, and for us to then go through the remainder of the season with a fairly typical mix of wins, draws and losses, ultimately finishing in mid table.

Go on then, when will our run finish (ex Man City).. and while I also don’t think we’ll finish top 6, who are the 12 teams that you’re expecting to finish above us?

[ExiledAjax]

3 minutes ago, Port Said Red said:

Everybody allows chances and everybody concedes in this league. There are only 4 teams with a positive goal difference in double figures.

We're just about in the bottom third for shots against, shots on target against, goals against, xG against. All in terms of raw numbers and when adjusted to be per 90mins. We're not the worst, not the near worst, but we're in that group.

2 minutes ago, FNQ said:

Go on then, when will our run finish (ex Man City).. and while I also don’t think we’ll finish top 6, who are the 12 teams that you’re expecting to finish above us?

I don't know when exactly it'll finish. And "mid table" doesn't mean 13th. It's anything between 9th and 15th as far as I'm concerned.

I am not saying we are bad, I'm delighted and I said in the match day thread that I think yesterday was a game where we came of age. But we should keep our feet on the ground. We're incredibly unlikely to be a playoff team this season.

[Robbored]

16 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Although yesterday was a fantastic win, and this 9 game unbeaten run is excellent in terms of results, there remain concerns, and there remain reasons we won't get into the play offs.

Defensively we still allow opponents a large number of chances. However they tend to be lower quality, and O'Leary has played well. Combined that means we've been able to keep goals conceded fairly low. But - we are conceding.

Just as we were never as bad as some thought we were in the autumn, we're not as good as some think we are now. Expect the run to finish fairly soon, and for us to then go through the remainder of the season with a fairly typical mix of wins, draws and losses, ultimately finishing in mid table.

The difference between the low of Boxing Day and now has been the fitness of and the cohesion within the team. It was there yesterday for all to see.

The team spirit is excellent and every player is leaving nothing on the pitch and those factors are down to the influence and guidelines of the coaching team, recruited btw by Nige. 

City are now performing well and other clubs will be very aware of our upturn in form. They’ll visit AG with some trepidation - it’s been quite some time since that’s been the case.

Another three points on Wednesday eve will enhance City’s growing reputation.

[downendcity]

51 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

I would say that "We aren't completely there yet, but I think we are 75-85% of what a successful football club should be."

The most successful clubs are those where decade to decade, the proverbial "tea lady" is as important as the CEO, owner, football manager, players and supporters.

PS. The last sentence is not meant to be sexist or demeaning tlo feminine catering staff. Just my old fashioned language.

As Churchill famously said, after the Allies first major victory two and a half years into the war, "this is not end, it is not the beginning if the end, it is the end of the beginning".

Perhaps, after the last 2 years we are at the end of the beginning,  and that without all the off field distractions and financial concerns the team becomes increasingly Pearson's team and that it continues to develop and improve.

[ExiledAjax]

19 minutes ago, Robbored said:

The difference between the low of Boxing Day and now has been the fitness of and the cohesion within the team. It was there yesterday for all to see.

The team spirit is excellent and every player is leaving nothing on the pitch and those factors are down to the influence and guidelines of the coaching team, recruited btw by Nige. 

City are now performing well and other clubs will be very aware of our upturn in form. They’ll visit AG with some trepidation - it’s been quite some time since that’s been the case.

Another three points on Wednesday eve will enhance City’s growing reputation.

None of this really means anything though does it?

As for teams coming to AG with "trepidation". I suspect that actually they'll look at the numbers and the videos and they'll see that most teams get at least a dozen shots at our goal, that O'Leary is in form but is still prone to an error (like most goalkeepers), and they'll feel pretty confident of scoring at least once. 

Then they'll look at our attack and their goalkeeper will think "ok I've probably got to make just 2 or 3 saves today". If the defenders can stop the through balls and low crosses then there's not much else to worry about.

We can be dangerous, but we're not battering teams, we're getting good draws and wins, but we are vulnerable, and other teams will know that.

[DaveInSA]

Past performance is no indicator or guarantee of future performance. 

[Robbored]

19 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

None of this really means anything though does it?

As for teams coming to AG with "trepidation". I suspect that actually they'll look at the numbers and the videos and they'll see that most teams get at least a dozen shots at our goal, that O'Leary is in form but is still prone to an error (like most goalkeepers), and they'll feel pretty confident of scoring at least once. 

Then they'll look at our attack and their goalkeeper will think "ok I've probably got to make just 2 or 3 saves today". If the defenders can stop the through balls and low crosses then there's not much else to worry about.

We can be dangerous, but we're not battering teams, we're getting good draws and wins, but we are vulnerable, and other teams will know that.

This applies to pretty much every club all of whom have strengths and vulnerabilities. The top PL clubs are no exception.
 

[AshtonGreat]

10 hours ago, Robbored said:

The bottom line is that football fans are a fickle bunch. Their dedication wavers depending on results and exactly why we saw so many criticising Nige when he was struggling to sort out the shambles left by LJ and Ashton.

Some of us appreciated that and also that he has a three year project in which time he’d be able to build a team capable of becoming a serious threat in the Championship with a mix of youth and experienced players.

Now in just 18 months he has changed the entire culture which was essential to enable the playing squad to feel ‘at home’ within the new healthy club culture.

I’ve said it before but Nige really is a proper manager. Head an shoulders above all the previous managers in the last 30 years.

Based on what - his achievements at other clubs?

[ExiledAjax]

8 minutes ago, Robbored said:

This applies to pretty much every club all of whom have strengths and vulnerabilities. The top PL clubs are no exception.

In which case why would an opponent approach us any differently?

[cidered abroad]

11 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said:

Based on what - his achievements at other clubs?

No. How he manages people.

[AshtonGreat]

2 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

No. How he manages people.

That’s just one aspect of the job

[Robbored]

11 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said:

Based on what - his achievements at other clubs?

Based on several factors. 

The professional way in which he conducts himself impresses not only me but many others, including his backroom staff and players. 

He has developed a positive culture throughout the entire club, quite an achievement after the miasma left by Ashton and LJ. He’s achieved that by bringing in staff that he’d worked with previously and who’s qualities he knows.

Nige is a natural leader who others admire and follow.

He's creating a squad with a blend of experience and youth - SLs long term ambition - who must be delighted to see Nige  going about implementing his ambition.

I repeat - Nige is a proper manager and I’m delighted that he’s at our club.

[Robbored]

11 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said:

That’s just one aspect of the job

That both Johnson’s were crap at as was SC. All of them subjected to scorn by those under them. We very rarely, if ever hear negative comments about Nige.

[Robbored]

21 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

In which case why would an opponent approach us any differently?

Perhaps because our vulnerabilities are harder to identify?

[AshtonGreat]

4 minutes ago, Robbored said:

That both Johnson’s were crap at as was SC. All of them subjected to scorn by those under them. We very rarely, if ever hear negative comments about Nige.

I find that hard to believe. There was an incredibly positive feeling around the club when SC was in charge, and the players seemed to really like him. Besides, you simply can’t be a poor manager and achieve what SC and GJ achieved. For me, NP has a long way to go yet

[ExiledAjax]

2 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Perhaps because our vulnerabilities are harder to identify?

So the trepidation is generated by the frustration of knowing that we have vulnerabilities, but having an inability to identify them.

Not sure I agree with that but you do you.

[Port Said Red]

10 minutes ago, Robbored said:

That both Johnson’s were crap at as was SC. All of them subjected to scorn by those under them. We very rarely, if ever hear negative comments about Nige.

You are so transparent, I have windows in my house that are harder to see through.

[CodeRed]

10 minutes ago, Robbored said:

That both Johnson’s were crap at as was SC. All of them subjected to scorn by those under them. We very rarely, if ever hear negative comments about Nige.

You're slipping Robbored! .... we're on page 4 of the thread and you've only just managed to work in something negative about Gary Johnson.

 

[Robbored]

3 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

So the trepidation is generated by the frustration of knowing that we have vulnerabilities, but having an inability to identify them.

Not sure I agree with that but you do you.

I’ve had to read that four times…………..

If I’ve read it correctly you’re saying what I posted earlier 

[Robbored]

1 minute ago, CodeRed said:

You're slipping Robbored! .... we're on page 4 of the thread and you've only just managed to work in something negative about Gary Johnson.

 

Just stating facts CR. 

Who in their right mind can compare any previous City manager in the last 3O years with what Nige is achieving in a couple of years?

[mozo]

3 hours ago, robinforlife2 said:

I personally don't think there is anything wrong with being a doubter. I get people can understand the bigger picture and the long term scale of things, and with that, maybe they are more accepting. But if a manager and any manger for that matter, didn't have any doubts when they had one of the poorest strike rates of managers in recent times, then the question should be, when is there time to doubt?

Am I pleased it has been turned around, absolutely. It is very much his team now, and whilst he may not have been able to bring in some luxury additions he would like, the additions are his additions. 

I don't care what anyone says, but in life performances don't breed confidence, results do, and the difference is, that on Boxing Day, we were being treated to the odd performance but there was no result, we had players out of position, and we seemed incapable of putting two results together. One might say, that some fans getting on Nige's back, and as a result probably people at the club as well, he had to try something new, and realised now was the time to put up, or be put out.

January and early February, has been a breath of fresh air, we have gone from unable to win despite playing well, to being able to win, or draw even if we don't. Confidence breeds confidence and confidence often leads to results. As present we are getting the results even when we are not impressive, and a lot of that will come down to confidence. 

The team is finally progressing in the right way on the pitch under Pearson, and that is all that those who were voicing concern wanted to see. Whether it's a change of playing staff, change of formation, playing players in the right position, or a combination of all those factors, the facts are, if anything we are starting to do a little too well. and this is when sometimes expectation becomes unrealistic.

What the current run does do, is takes us well away from the relegation zone. An area we needed to avoid this season, and all most fans wanted. Survival was key, nothing else this season mattered. On Boxing Day a number of fans, myself included were worried we were a little too close for comfort to the relegation zone. 

The issue I now have, is we are 7pts off the playoff zone, with a game in hand on 6th, and 6pts off 7th on level games. With Preston, Norwich and Blackburn all appearing to falter at present, it is not impossible that if we continue this forward momentum, that in 4/5 games time, we could be sat in the top 10. This would far surpass anything expected of the team this season by any fan, but it could set it up for a very tense final ten games, in which there is definitely a 6th spot up for grabs. The top 5, remain consistent and performing very well, and we don't have to face any of them in our next 6 fixtures and this could be a blessing. Realistically in our next 6 fixtures, we only have Sunderland who pose a serious danger to us, and it is likely we can get a result (win or draw) from the other five.

The playoffs with our final 6 games containing Burnley, Sheffield United, Watford and Middlesbrough may be a step too far, but I would not be surprised if approaching those last 6 games that we weren't within hailing distance of the top six.

The season has taken a surprising, but delightful twist, and its nice to be looking up, rather than down. If we finish where we are now, I would personally be happy, but we must not get carried away with ourselves and think that the closer to the top six we get, that expectation rises. It would be bad come 7th or 8th and fans feeling disappointed to just miss out. 

I am pleased Nige has turned it around. On paper he was always a very good appointment for us, I among many others at Xmas questioned if he was getting the best from the squad and whether he might take us down, but I am pleased it has been turned around.

What this last month has shown us though, is that next season with the purse strings loosened a little, and possibly the incoming funds should Scott be sold, that it would not be wrong to expect us to be competitive next season. 

It could also be said that bar 3/4 teams, this years Championship has been wide open, and actually grabbing the most unlikeliest of 6th places, and maybe landing the most unlikeliest of promotions given where we were at Xmas, might be our best opportunity in some time, and could also lead to us keeping hold of some of the stars ideally we don't want to lose just yet.

Personally, I think as fans we can enjoy the rest of the season, taking each game at a time. It's pleasing to see the change, and credit to Nige and his staff in turning it around. 

As said, if we end up 13th, then Nige has surpassed my hopes and expectations for this season. I personally feel it is a little too early to dare to dream, but in 6 games time, that 6th spot might not actually look that unrealistic, but our final 6 games is as tough a run in as we could have asked for, and that should not be ignored.

Well done Nige and the team for turning it around. 

Very well put 

[Northern Red]

Don't feed it lads, before he ruins yet another thread.

[ExiledAjax]

4 minutes ago, Robbored said:

I’ve had to read that four times…………..

If I’ve read it correctly you’re saying what I posted earlier 

It's absolutely not what you posted earlier - the below is what you posted regarding trepidation. It's merely a statement, it has no supporting evidence or reasoning. We've then had a conversation and arrived - apparently in agreement - upon the absurd reasoning that clubs will come to us in a state of trepidation because they know we have vulnerabilities but have been utterly unable to identify them. Bizarre tbh.

1 hour ago, Robbored said:

City are now performing well and other clubs will be very aware of our upturn in form. They’ll visit AG with some trepidation - it’s been quite some time since that’s been the case.

 

[CodeRed]

5 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Just stating facts CR. 

Who in their right mind can compare any previous City manager in the last 3O years with what Nige is achieving in a couple of years?

They're not facts though are they?  2 of the 3 managers you dismissed as crap won promotions, plus a champ play off final and a trophy between them.

Whilst Nige is doing a good job rebuilding the playing squad he hasn't won anything yet.

[Cityboy1954]

One thing stood out for me yesterday was the togetherness of the players hugging each other at the end of the game that tells you good times ahead .

[Robbored]

18 minutes ago, CodeRed said:

They're not facts though are they?  2 of the 3 managers you dismissed as crap won promotions, plus a champ play off final and a trophy between them.

Whilst Nige is doing a good job rebuilding the playing squad he hasn't won anything yet.

The entire club environment has to be right CR and we all know that Nige inherited a club pretty much on its knees and yeah he’s doing a good job in rebuilding the culture as well as getting the players much fitter.

As yet Nige hasn’t won anything  but if he stays at City he will get us to the PL, maybe not this season but next season City will be in with a serious shout.

Winning promotion from the lower leagues is not too big a deal, lots of managers have that on their CV but nowhere near as many have a promotion to the PL on theirs. Only Nige and Danny Wilson had that.