O'Neills - New Kit Supplier (Confirmed)

[cider hoss rules]

17 hours ago, MarcusX said:

Not even sure why they had to release a “third” kit first. Just call it an away kit and bring the 3rd one out later and no one would even be moaning

Are you new here?

[1960maaan]

6 minutes ago, Ian M said:

I definitely remember seeing it being posted that anyone can attend

Sorry to quote myself, but you are right.

8 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

Venue and time: Meetings start at 7.00 pm. Since the start of the COVID-19 pandemic in 2020, all meetings are now being held on Zoom. To request a link, please email info@bristolcitysupporters.org

All welcome!

 

[ExiledAjax]

@Ian M yes anyone can email the SC&T or attend the monthly meetings. Anyone. Member or not, season ticket holder or random, gas fan, anyone. 

It's how I got involved with the SC&T. 

I had an issue I cared about - how kit choice affects colourblind fans - and I emailed the SC&T. I joined a couple of their meetings. 

Within a few weeks I'd exchanged emails with Richard Gould and had a zoom call with him to discuss the issue.

All it takes is a little effort. Not everyone actually cares enough to make that effort though.

[BasSavage88]

24 minutes ago, Ian M said:

I definitely remember seeing it being posted that anyone can attend.
I also see that the person who is amazed that people seem to care so much is still going to bring it up on behalf of others.
But if you're just here to troll Phantom and I've missed the point then I'll stop wasting my time on you.

Thats not what I mean, meetings are for all fans but a select few of those in the sc&t then take those concerns to the club. I'm not in anyway "trolling" more concerned that one of the few people from those meetings who actually get to speak to the club dont care about an issue that many fans obviously do.

[Bristol Rob]

29 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

From their website.

 

Venue and time: Meetings start at 7.00 pm. Since the start of the COVID-19 pandemic in 2020, all meetings are now being held on Zoom. To request a link, please email info@bristolcitysupporters.org

All welcome!

https://www.bristolcitysupporters.org/meet/

 

But are they allowed to contribute?

[Ian M]

4 minutes ago, BasSavage88 said:

Thats not what I mean, meetings are for all fans but a select few of those in the sc&t then take those concerns to the club. I'm not in anyway "trolling" more concerned that one of the few people from those meetings who actually get to speak to the club dont care about an issue that many fans obviously do.

But any concerned fan can attend that monthly meeting which to my understanding is with the club. It's not limited to SC&T members even. Am I missing the point somehow?

 

[Ian M]

1 minute ago, Bristol Rob said:

But are they allowed to contribute?

One for @ExiledAjax who has actual experience of attending as a non-member initially rather than just imagining what it might be like.

[BasSavage88]

2 minutes ago, Ian M said:

But any concerned fan can attend that monthly meeting with the club. It's not limited to SC&T members even. Am I missing the point somehow?

 

Again from what ive read on here, apart from maybe the SLO no one from the club is at those meetings, its just fans talking amongst each other.

2 or 3 people from the sc&t then have an actual meeting with the club to bring up concerns from the meeting between the fans. 

[ExiledAjax]

@Ian M @BasSavage88

Ok. There seems to be some confusion.

MEETING 1

There is a meeting of the SC&T on the first Wednesday of every month. That is at 7pm, lasts about 2 hours, and is held over zoom. It's open to everyone , you just contact the SC&T as set out on the website and the link and agenda comes to you.

Yes anyone can speak at that meeting, at any time. Be respectful (ie normal meeting/zoom etiquette of raising your hand, letting othe speak, respect the Chair etc). If your item isn't on the agenda then wait until AOB to raise it.

Generally Jerry the SLO attends these meetings, but it is not a "meeting with the Club".

Then. Separately.

MEETING 2

@phantom has mentioned a monthly meeting between himself, presumably @thatcham red, and the Club - Phil Alexander and Dave Barton. These meetings started a couple of years ago following the MOU, my colourblindness chat and the fan-led review being announced. This meeting is not open to literally anyone, but honest to god if you show willingness, effort, and are polite, it's well within the SC&T's power to consider inviting you to it.

It's not a secret cabal, it's not a drinking club, the SC&T isn't out to get anyone. All they ask is for some effort and respect from you and, in my experience at least, it will be returned tenfold.

[BasSavage88]

2 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

It's not a secret cabal, it's not a drinking club, the SC&T isn't out to get anyone. All they ask is for some effort and respect from you and, in my experience at least, it will be returned tenfold.

That's not what I am getting at and I can imagine they do some great stuff and help more people than I could imagine.

I was just getting at its a little disappointing as a fan that someone from the sc&t and one of the few that gets an audience with the club is surprised that people care about something like the kit. This then doesn't fill me with hope that they will portray it as something important to the club when they get the chance.

[ExiledAjax]

Just now, BasSavage88 said:

That's not what I am getting at and I can imagine they do some great stuff and help more people than I could imagine.

I was just getting at its a little disappointing as a fan that someone from the sc&t and one of the few that gets an audience with the club is surprised that people care about something like the kit. This then doesn't fill me with hope that they will portray it as something important to the club when they get the chance.

Fair.

I got involved because of kit, and I'd be more involved if new jobs, houses, children etc weren't filling my time right now. 

I'd say that from what I know the Club have been told on multiple occasions about the concerns. Whether they have listened to those concerns is another issue, and is one outside of your control, my control, and the SC&T's control.

[Unan]

Members of the SC&T do not have to be actively involved, or care, about every single aspect of Bristol City. However, I don't see what positives it brings to actively go out of your way to make a point of "It still amazes me that people seem to care so much", for a topic that, clearly, people do care so much about. Each to their own though.

[lenred]

1 hour ago, ExiledAjax said:

@Ian M @BasSavage88

Ok. There seems to be some confusion.

MEETING 1

There is a meeting of the SC&T on the first Wednesday of every month. That is at 7pm, lasts about 2 hours, and is held over zoom. It's open to everyone , you just contact the SC&T as set out on the website and the link and agenda comes to you.

Yes anyone can speak at that meeting, at any time. Be respectful (ie normal meeting/zoom etiquette of raising your hand, letting othe speak, respect the Chair etc). If your item isn't on the agenda then wait until AOB to raise it.

Generally Jerry the SLO attends these meetings, but it is not a "meeting with the Club".

Then. Separately.

MEETING 2

@phantom has mentioned a monthly meeting between himself, presumably @thatcham red, and the Club - Phil Alexander and Dave Barton. These meetings started a couple of years ago following the MOU, my colourblindness chat and the fan-led review being announced. This meeting is not open to literally anyone, but honest to god if you show willingness, effort, and are polite, it's well within the SC&T's power to consider inviting you to it.

It's not a secret cabal, it's not a drinking club, the SC&T isn't out to get anyone. All they ask is for some effort and respect from you and, in my experience at least, it will be returned tenfold.

Are there minutes that we can read of meeting 2?  

[ExiledAjax]

5 minutes ago, lenred said:

Are there minutes that we can read of meeting 2?  

Probably not.

[lenred]

5 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Probably not.

Could be said that it’s a ‘secret cabal’  then if we are not privy to what is discussed and agreed (sorry not picking on you - sounds passive aggressive I know).  And I think that the ‘we are discussing things which you don’t know about’ angle presents the wrong impression. It’s our club.  If there are fan led discussions being held then we should be able to have access to everything that is discussed imho.  It shouldn’t be a secret.  

Edited September 9, 2023 by lenred

[Bristol Rob]

7 minutes ago, lenred said:

Could be said that it’s a ‘secret cabal’  then if we are not privy to what is discussed and agreed (sorry not picking on you - sounds passive aggressive I know).  And I think that the ‘we are discussing things which you don’t know about’ angle presents the wrong impression. It’s our club.  If there are fan led discussions being held then we should be able to have access to everything that is discussed imho.  It shouldn’t be a secret.  

But things do get reported back, the away kit being available early Sept was fed back as a result of these meetings.

[Norn Iron]

For those that haven't read all 91 whoops 92 pages (hello Phantom, :laugh:) here is a summary....

BCFC are now having all their shirts made in China and available through another website. You get a free pie with every order plus free entry to SC&T meetings courtesy of Zoom.

The 3rd kit known as Splat is now the second kit. The away kit will be released in September together with a dvd on neck exercises. This will help the wearer either expand or contract their neck muscles for a proper fit.

Many people can personally vouch for the poor/good quality of the kit even though they haven't actually felt one in the shop let alone wear it. 

Some people have bought the new O'Neills shirt but their opinions don't count.

Posters have also done their own private polls where the results show everybody hates it and isn't a patch on other manufacturers especially Castore, who nobody had heard of 8 years ago as they didn't exist.

I see O'Neills products every day here in Norn Iron where they are made. They look good and are good, apart from BCFC products obviously and don't let's talk about their t-shirt range especially if it is Blue. But me? I'm just a lawnmower, you can tell me by the way I walk.

[ExiledAjax]

2 minutes ago, lenred said:

Could be said that it’s a ‘secret cabal’  then if we are not privy to what is discussed and agreed (sorry not picking on you - sounds passive aggressive I know).  And I think that the ‘we are discussing things which you don’t know about’ angle presents the wrong impression. It’s our club.  If there are fan led discussions being held then we should be able to have access to everything that is discussed imho.  It shouldn’t be a secret.  

No I agree. I'm all for more transparency. Honestly all for it.

But there's a balance to be struck between reporting a meeting and keeping certain things private - not from fans - but perhaps from the EFL, rival clubs, the media etc.

For example, and I think I can say this now, when the discussion around fan led review stuff with Gould was going on the Club was also in discussions with the EFL about FFP. Now some things came up in those SC&T/BCFC meetings that the EFL were not privy to and that could have prejudiced those discussions between the EFL and the Club. Nothing "bad" I hasten to add, but stuff that in negotiation you might not want the other side knowing. Tactical if you like. Now if detailed, full minutes had been kept and published then some stuff would be out there which you and I wouldn't have wanted.

So redacted or partial minutes then? Well that looks even more sneaky.

The SC&T do report things that are relevant and are decided though. But it's hard, you don't tend to get a situation where a problem is presented, discussed, and a solution decided all in one part of a single hour's meeting.

[David Brent]

23 minutes ago, Norn Iron said:

Many people can personally vouch for the poor/good quality of the kit even though they haven't actually felt one in the shop let alone wear it. 

Some people have bought the new O'Neills shirt but their opinions don't count.

I admire your loyalty to our new kit provider but as someone who has actually felt one in the shop I must say the quality is disappointing.

I know some who are happy with their purchase though.

Of those who have an opinion though, I’m sure more would agree that most of it is expensive tat. 

[lenred]

30 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

No I agree. I'm all for more transparency. Honestly all for it.

But there's a balance to be struck between reporting a meeting and keeping certain things private - not from fans - but perhaps from the EFL, rival clubs, the media etc.

For example, and I think I can say this now, when the discussion around fan led review stuff with Gould was going on the Club was also in discussions with the EFL about FFP. Now some things came up in those SC&T/BCFC meetings that the EFL were not privy to and that could have prejudiced those discussions between the EFL and the Club. Nothing "bad" I hasten to add, but stuff that in negotiation you might not want the other side knowing. Tactical if you like. Now if detailed, full minutes had been kept and published then some stuff would be out there which you and I wouldn't have wanted.

So redacted or partial minutes then? Well that looks even more sneaky.

The SC&T do report things that are relevant and are decided though. But it's hard, you don't tend to get a situation where a problem is presented, discussed, and a solution decided all in one part of a single hour's meeting.

All very fair points and an appreciated reply.  
 

I was more than surprised that the club shared the info you refer to (think it’s been mentioned on here previously) but very much appreciate it is not for sharing in that instance.  But if it’s not for sharing then the fans representatives should just not speak about it full stop. It’s the air of ‘I know something you don’t’ that gets some peoples goats imho.  I think this item was probably an outlier though.

Wider reaching,  non-financial items  such as shirts, seating, match day experience, fan involvement, stadium updates, fan engagement, future plans etc - imho that information very much should be shared if it’s been discussed and I don't really see any reason why it isn’t if the meetings are being conducted on behalf of the fans as a whole.  

If meetings are about individual private matters then of course, fair enough.   But if it’s about all of us it and these people attending are doing so on the premise of representing us as a whole then the info needs to be shared imho and I see no reason why it isn’t being. 

Edited September 9, 2023 by lenred

[johnheadbcfc]

On 01/09/2023 at 11:08, phantom said:

The club did say start of September, NOT the 1st of September

So this away kit then...

[ExiledAjax]

7 minutes ago, lenred said:

All very fair points and an appreciated reply.  
 

I was more than surprised that the club shared the info you refer to (think it’s been mentioned on here previously) but very much appreciate it is not for sharing in that instance.  But if it’s not for sharing then the fans representatives should just not speak about it full stop. It’s the air of ‘I know something you don’t’ that gets some peoples goats imho.  I think this item was probably an outlier though.
Wider reaching,  non-financial items  such as shirts, seating, match day experience, fan involvement, stadium updates, fan engagement, future plans etc - imho that information very much should be shared if it’s been discussed and I don't really see any reason why it isn’t if the meetings are being conducted on behalf of the fans as a whole.  

If meetings are about individual private matters then of course, fair enough.   But if it’s about all of us it and these people attending are doing so on the premise of representing us as a whole then the info needs to be shared imho and I see no reason why it isn’t being. 

All fair points. From memory Gould volunteered such items tangentially to discussions around financial distribution between the EFL and PL. We didn't go in saying "tell us all your FFP secrets Richard!" It just came up. 

The other stuff, yes where decisions are made they should be communicated. I think they are. I'm not sure that every word of the discussions needs to be made public, although broad points could be. I think you just have to remember that there are multiple parties involved, big egos in certain places, and others...behind the scenes shall I say...that have influence over the club representatives.

It's a balance, and as I said earlier, I've not bee part of this since Alexander took over as life has become a bit busier for me. Things may have changed and others may now be better placed to speak about this l.

Ps I really try not to give over an air of "I know something you don't know" btw. 

[lenred]

Just now, ExiledAjax said:

All fair points. From memory Gould volunteered such items tangentially to discussions around financial distribution between the EFL and PL. We didn't go in saying "tell us all your FFP secrets Richard!" It just came up. 

The other stuff, yes where decisions are made they should be communicated. I think they are. I'm not sure that every word of the discussions needs to be made public, although broad points could be. I think you just have to remember that there are multiple parties involved, big egos in certain places, and others...behind the scenes shall I say...that have influence over the club representatives.

It's a balance, and as I said earlier, I've not bee part of this since Alexander took over as life has become a bit busier for me. Things may have changed and others may now be better placed to speak about this l.

Ps I really try not to give over an air of "I know something you don't know" btw. 

You don’t

[ExiledAjax]

4 minutes ago, lenred said:

You don’t

Thanks. Sometimes I worry I'm saying too much, but as I said, transparency is important. This is a club, we're all part of it, all invested in it, and all worth something to it. Gosh, the sun's got to me and I've gone soppy.

Enjoy the weekend @lenred

[lenred]

2 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Thanks. Sometimes I worry I'm saying too much, but as I said, transparency is important. This is a club, we're all part of it, all invested in it, and all worth something to it. Gosh, the sun's got to me and I've gone soppy.

Enjoy the weekend @lenred

Haha!  Nothing wrong at all with a bit of sop!  Good man - you too @ExiledAjax

[steviestevieneville]

On 08/09/2023 at 19:13, phantom said:

You've misunderstood me, personally I have no interest but you are correct that it will be raised 

As with last month when the SC&T sub committee met with the club, (that prompted the club to announce those release dates) if the kits are not confirmed before Wednesday I can confirm that the question will be asked again for an update 

It's why I have said a few times in this thread that at worst information will be released next week 

Out of courtesy the minutes taken by the SC&T are shared with the club first to advise what we will be releasing, then we'll share on the SC&T website before being announced on here 

Please find why it’s been delayed. Re think due to splat being on it again . Are the club staying with O’Neil’s ? Must of hit the club financially due to the poor quality & design . Also can you ask if anyone can please take jons crayons off of him. He’s started drawing on the walls again

[steviestevieneville]

On 09/09/2023 at 10:48, Norn Iron said:

I've explained in previous posts here Ian that Castore wasn't a thing until around 2015 ish.

A couple of under 30s sporting brothers wanted to get into sportswear. Because of a financial background their connections obviously helped. They have significant backing.

A shrewd move to get a major team to wear their clothing must've helped despite the obvious cost. Just like Admiral who went for Leeds in the early 70s which took their sportswear to another level, so did Castore with Rangers plus other non- football teams.

Who made/make Castore clothing? Don't know.....maybe O'Neills under licence! Now that would be funny.

I’ve just bought a castore England cricket polo shirt . No branding on it apart from the England badge . The quality is brilliant , really comfortable . I know you were joking but it’s a million times better than anything oneils make . 

[phantom]

On 09/09/2023 at 13:08, BasSavage88 said:

Thats not what I mean, meetings are for all fans but a select few of those in the sc&t then take those concerns to the club. I'm not in anyway "trolling" more concerned that one of the few people from those meetings who actually get to speak to the club dont care about an issue that many fans obviously do.

I'm not directing this solely to you, but to anyone reading this thread

This is the last I'm going to say on this subject until after the meeting on Wednesday.

Please don't expect any update instantly, it will be in the same format as at the bottom of my post here 

Personally I'm not interested at all about the away kit, and my comment was more in relation to the handful of people that continue to question it's availability when I had already written on a number of occasions that if the club hadn't announced anything by the time we meet on Wednesday it would be asked again what is happening. 

It's very likely that those of us asking questions  don't have a personal interest with every issue we take to the club, BUT please don't assume that doesn't mean the issue won't be addressed

If that was the case I'd certainly not be taking time out of my working day (I have to arrange to get this time off work and then work the additional time at the end of the day) to meet with club officials 

As you'll see throughout this thread and the monthly SC&T threads I've listed the questions raised on here and they WILL ALL be asked on behalf of not only those that asked the question but those that it also impacts on. 

Going forward I will always take questions  asked on here (whether I agree, or have interest in them) and ensure that they get asked at the correct meeting. Be that the Monthly SC&T meeting, the monthly meeting with Phil Alexander and Dave Barton or the new monthly meeting being set up with the women's side of Bristol City (Shahan from on here and D-M Withers will be attending those meetings) 

23 hours ago, lenred said:

Are there minutes that we can read of meeting 2?  

 

https://www.bristolcitysupporters.org/representing-fans-concerns/

https://www.bcfc.co.uk/news/bristol-city-kit-update/

 

[Taz]

7 hours ago, steviestevieneville said:

Please find why it’s been delayed. Re think due to splat being on it again . Are the club staying with O’Neil’s ? Must of hit the club financially due to the poor quality & design . Also can you ask if anyone can please take jons crayons off of him. He’s started drawing on the walls again

Not done as bad financially as some people may think - and that's come from someone I know who would know!

I went to the Oxford game as we were visiting my family, and actually the number of people in attendance and walking to the ground in a new shirt of some type - whether that be home, splat, or one of the GK variations - was actually a lot more than the number I thought I would see going by the comments on here!

Do I like them - not particularly, although I did have the blue GK shirt brought for me as an early birthday present which is quite nice, although the material and fit isn't great, but my 2 year old who has the home shirt absolutely loves it and wears it as soon as it's washed.

People are still buying them.

[frenchred]

On 09/09/2023 at 13:02, ExiledAjax said:

@Ian M yes anyone can email the SC&T or attend the monthly meetings. Anyone. Member or not, season ticket holder or random, gas fan, anyone. 

It's how I got involved with the SC&T. 

I had an issue I cared about - how kit choice affects colourblind fans - and I emailed the SC&T. I joined a couple of their meetings. 

Within a few weeks I'd exchanged emails with Richard Gould and had a zoom call with him to discuss the issue.

All it takes is a little effort. Not everyone actually cares enough to make that effort though.

I requested the link via the e mail as advertised prior to last game

Never had a response