Stoke City away match thread

[2015]

Great win. Delighted for Mehmeti after a frustrating display last week. Just the reaction Pearson would have wanted

[Spudgun]

Just now, REDOXO said:

Nah, all to busy laughing at where our next win was going to come from!

 Not you as well!

Certainly made myself look like a plonker.

Great win today, feared the worst in the first half hour or so.

[BigTone]

7 minutes ago, slartibartfast said:

I thought Harry was ok when he came on, as well.

Fair play to him. Didn't see the game as it wasn't on Robins TV.

[Davefevs]

26 minutes ago, Port Said Red said:

I wish I could find the posts from whomever it was that kept telling that JD was shit and we need to get rid, I said he was a little out of form, but Nigel sees him as a big player.

me

14 minutes ago, Shuffle said:

yes some people are just too quick to write him off.  In fairness had said his goodbyes in Jan and then the Currie deal collapsed but has remained professional throughout.  Well played Jay

he has been playing below par though. But was tip-top today. 

10 minutes ago, Gimme Shelton said:

And how many different partners has he had this season as well,at least four! Done very well in the circumstances.

Yep, got to be taken into the equation. Neither Pring nor Vyner are ball winners, they are trying their best and doing bloody well. Mistakes happen. They ain’t hiding though. Love it. 

[The Original OTIB]

16 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Not forgetting the Tanner inception first and good pacey ball into Weimann…who thought had a good second half. 

I’ve been critical in recent weeks but probably MOTM today. Fair play. 

We are generally better at pace and on the front foot. Over thinking/playing is generally our downfall.

[ExiledAjax]

48 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I guess my challenge to this is that if we make the defence and midfield better on the summer, then maybe our strikers / forwards are good enough. Often feeding on scraps. City are a side that are well above average for taking chances. If the team can up their creation then who knows. 

It's all shown by goal difference.

Last season we finished with -15. Top 6 sides tend to finish with +10 or more. So we needed to find a swing of about +25 (or roughly 0.4-0.5 per game). Does not matter how that comes about - improved defence, attack, midfield - or any element of each of those. As you say, one way is to up our chance creation rate whilst maintaining our clinical finishing. If we can do that then we'll challenge. That's ultimately what you need to do.

So far this season it's looking like we've found +15 of that required +25. Mainly through defensive improvement (our xG per game (1.22) is basically the same as last season (1.25), but xGA (1.29 22/23 v 1.66 21/22) is hugely improved). With 6 games left we've conceded 48, last season we conceded 77 (seventy seven) in 46. So we have to concede 29 in 6 games to match last season's GA column. Huge improvement there.

Next season we need to swing that GD another 10-15 to the good. How that's done is up to Pearson, Fleming, Euell et al. But that's what we need to do.

Edited April 7, 2023 by ExiledAjax

[mozo]

2 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

It's all shown by goal difference.

Last season we finished with -15. Top 6 sides rend to finish with +10 or more. So we needed to find a swing of about +25 (or roughly 0.4-0.5 per game). Does not matter how that comes about - improved defence, attack, midfield - or any element of each of those. As you say, one way is to up our chance creation rate whilst maintaining our clinical finishing. If we can do that then we'll challenge. That's ultimately what you need to do.

So far this season it's looking like we've found +15 of that required +25. Mainly through defensive improvement (our xG per game (1.22) is basically the same as last season (1.25), but xGA (1.29 22/23 v 1.66 21/22) is hugely improved). With 6 games left we've conceded 48, last season we conceded 77 (seventy seven) in 46. So we have to concede 29 in 6 games to match last season's GA column. Huge improvement there.

Next season we need to swing that GD another 10-15 to the good. How that's done is up to Pearson, Fleming, Euell et al. But that's what we need to do.

Good shout.

If we could do it with goals for, that would be fun.

[REDOXO]

15 minutes ago, Spudgun said:

 Not you as well!

Certainly made myself look like a plonker.

Great win today, feared the worst in the first half hour or so.

You have taken it well though Sir!

[ExiledAjax]

4 minutes ago, mozo said:

Good shout.

If we could do it with goals for, that would be fun.

Absolutely. But equally, if we only concede 35 goals next season that would be incredible.

I really don't care how we do it, but a GD of about +0.3 per game is what you want to look for over the season. So if by game 20 we're on about +8 or so, then play offs start to become something we can think about.

Edited April 7, 2023 by ExiledAjax

[Spike]

28 minutes ago, Leveller said:

This sounds like it could have been written a year ago. This season he has been extremely reliable and those mistakes have been rare. Most fans seem to see him as possibly the player of the season, certainly one of them. I no longer worry when he's on the ball, the way I used to.

See I disagree with player of the season, compared to anyone in our back line I still see more mistakes from him that are often blamed on other players because they are more about his decision on when to attack a ball carrier and when to stay and his positioning at times really causes problems with our backline shape.
I do not for a second think he's not improved, he has, but he's still too prone to mistakes, bad positioning and decision-making. As much as I hate to say it I think if you put a CB who is fit all season in his place and just had the qualities in positioning, decision making in his passes and when to commit I think we'd look a lot stronger in defence.

[Loosey Boy]

23 minutes ago, Kodjias Wrist said:

How many made the trip up? Fair play to those who went 5 wins in a row up there is it?

1,200

[Davefevs]

13 minutes ago, maxjak said:

I always respect your opinion, and you are the king of stats!   However our top goal scorer has 11 goals this season, and i believe that any side which has ambitions to be top six needs a goalscorer higher than that.  Possibly Tommy Conway could be that man, but it is a lot to ask of a player of his age.  We have plenty of frontmen....but we do not have a strong tall unit who can hold up the ball and bring others into play by holding the ball up, and also contributing aerially?   I just think that type of striker would be a great club to have in our bag?

Thanks.  To be honest, my view on this isn’t really about stats, and not really about how many our top scorer scores.  It doesn’t have to be them that scores the goals.

Look at Byfield in 07/08….8 or 9 wasn’t it?  Nahki is 12th top scorer in the league also.

It’s about team cohesiveness.  We are making great strides here.  No point having Weimann score 22 if we can’t keep them out at the other end.  Goal difference is a very good barometer of how good a team is…we are trending at mid-table….and today’s results gets us to zero.

This has happened with a team that has little depth, that depth tested massively at key points of the season (currently for one), but I think it highlights what Nige, the coaches and players have done over a period of time.

Don't get me wrong, I’m not getting carried away, but it doesn’t take much in terms of additions to suddenly move us into the next levels.

Conway is a gem btw.

I grew up on Neville and Riley, and loved Mick Harford, but I’ve never been dead set on “you must have a big man”.  I saw today how Cornick can play off the right, especially off diags from the left.  Left backs get a different challenge against him.  Sterling found him a different proposition to Weimann.

[Davefevs]

10 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

It's all shown by goal difference.

Last season we finished with -15. Top 6 sides rend to finish with +10 or more. So we needed to find a swing of about +25 (or roughly 0.4-0.5 per game). Does not matter how that comes about - improved defence, attack, midfield - or any element of each of those. As you say, one way is to up our chance creation rate whilst maintaining our clinical finishing. If we can do that then we'll challenge. That's ultimately what you need to do.

So far this season it's looking like we've found +15 of that required +25. Mainly through defensive improvement (our xG per game (1.22) is basically the same as last season (1.25), but xGA (1.29 22/23 v 1.66 21/22) is hugely improved). With 6 games left we've conceded 48, last season we conceded 77 (seventy seven) in 46. So we have to concede 29 in 6 games to match last season's GA column. Huge improvement there.

Next season we need to swing that GD another 10-15 to the good. How that's done is up to Pearson, Fleming, Euell et al. But that's what we need to do.

I was typing too slow!

[pillred]

14 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

It's all shown by goal difference.

Last season we finished with -15. Top 6 sides rend to finish with +10 or more. So we needed to find a swing of about +25 (or roughly 0.4-0.5 per game). Does not matter how that comes about - improved defence, attack, midfield - or any element of each of those. As you say, one way is to up our chance creation rate whilst maintaining our clinical finishing. If we can do that then we'll challenge. That's ultimately what you need to do.

So far this season it's looking like we've found +15 of that required +25. Mainly through defensive improvement (our xG per game (1.22) is basically the same as last season (1.25), but xGA (1.29 22/23 v 1.66 21/22) is hugely improved). With 6 games left we've conceded 48, last season we conceded 77 (seventy seven) in 46. So we have to concede 29 in 6 games to match last season's GA column. Huge improvement there.

Next season we need to swing that GD another 10-15 to the good. How that's done is up to Pearson, Fleming, Euell et al. But that's what we need to do.

We made the playoffs and finished 4th in 2008 our goal difference was a big fat zero so maybe we just have to tighten up a bit all round.

Edited April 7, 2023 by pillred

[22A]

 

[ExiledAjax]

8 minutes ago, pillred said:

We made the playoffs and finished 4th in 2008 our goal difference was a big fat zero so maybe we just have to tighten up a bit all round.

Sure (although pedantically it was +1), and Blackburn are currently in the top 6 on -2. It's not an exact science but if you aim for GD of 0 then you're most likely going to be mid-table, if you target +15 you're most likely to be top 6.

The other 5 top 6 teams in 07/08 had +33, +14, +18, +16 and +6. With our +1 that's an average of +15!

There are always exceptions but as a general rule GD is an excellent indicator of how a team is performing and of where they "should" roughly be in a table.

Edited April 7, 2023 by ExiledAjax

[ralphindevon]

Another enjoyable trip to Stoke, this is getting daft now, it's always sunny and we always win lately. 

Well done to the whole club, started slowly but once we got going we were great, forcing Stoke into errors and 2 cracking goals. 

[Port Said Red]

28 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

me

he has been playing below par though. But was tip-top today. 

Yep, got to be taken into the equation. Neither Pring nor Vyner are ball winners, they are trying their best and doing bloody well. Mistakes happen. They ain’t hiding though. Love it. 

It wasn't you Dave, you are never so black and white, it was whoever was in the same thread with us. I think your posts were far more level headed although suggesting we can do better. 

[pongo88]

49 minutes ago, 22A said:

https://oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/thread/308273/stoke-city-bristol?page=13

The players looked like they were unsure of what their role was after the subs.

Getting worried about being able to make the play-offs now.

Baffling second half collapse and a very strange, slow reaction by the manager to what was a very simple tactical change from Bristol.

There is at least one sensible person their forum, who said:

” as soon as King came on the momentum swung.”

[slartibartfast]

1 hour ago, Port Said Red said:

I wish I could find the posts from whomever it was that kept telling that JD was shit and we need to get rid, I said he was a little out of form, but Nigel sees him as a big player.

What would he have made of Bent and Galliers, then ?

[Jerseybean]

Post-match comments from NP and AM

https://fb.watch/jM4ZPNlOaU/

https://fb.watch/jM4_UA_wiC/

 

[Midred]

If that was a penalty for Sunderland how many should we have had?

[Port Said Red]

8 minutes ago, slartibartfast said:

What would he have made of Bent and Galliers, then ?

The actual quote was something like "a big player in his head/mind" I guess meaning he doesn't let his size stop him from competing for the ball.

[redkev]

4 hours ago, redkev said:

Shoot me down , hope I’m wrong  , but with our current form / squad problems it really wouldn’t surprise me if over the 2 games this weekend we come away with a 5 or 6 - 0 aggregate loss . 
 

Don’t get me wrong I think slowly we are going in the right direction I just think our injuries / suspension has come and caught up with us . Playing 2 sides in form albeit Stoke are full of loanees , bit like Hull were when they got promoted 

Well shoot me down , fair play to the team / squad / management & fans today who were very noisy , take all things in perspective that has to be the result of the season . Great performance after a very sticky opening 20 mins 

[Midred]

Great start to the weekend. Is it just me whose first thought the next morning after a loss is oh sh*t?

[downendcity]

21 minutes ago, pongo88 said:

There is at least one sensible person their forum, who said:

” as soon as King came on the momentum swung.”

Funny isn't it, but not too long ago there were plenty suggesting that King's legs had gone , implying he was a liability.

[ExiledAjax]

56 minutes ago, maxjak said:

any side which has ambitions to be top six needs a goalscorer higher than that. 

Strongly disagree. A team with top 6 ambitions needs to get to a GD of about +15. In any manner possible. Concede 35 and score 50 and you'll likely be up there. Not much room for a 15-20 goal striker in a team like that.

You've not mentioned 20 goal strikers, but just to look at an extreme position - the last two times we've had a striker score 20+ we've finished well down the table (2016/17 Tammy, 2021/22 Weimann).

[milo1111]

3 minutes ago, downendcity said:

Funny isn't it, but not too long ago there were plenty suggesting that King's legs had gone , implying he was a liability.

To be fair I think that was during the period when he was being played at centre back albeit in a back 3

[Mr Popodopolous]

6 minutes ago, downendcity said:

Funny isn't it, but not too long ago there were plenty suggesting that King's legs had gone , implying he was a liability.

King I thought was excellent v Watford in November indeed we were in the context of the backdrop- Tanner-King-Pring and thrashed by Lincoln vs at that point a Watford looking top 6 contenders and decent in the win at Rotherham in the back 3.

Soft goal vs Stoke in December and seemed to have run its course v West Brom Boxing Day but nice to see him contributing in what is after all his best position.

[Port Said Red]

1 hour ago, 22A said:

https://oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/thread/308273/stoke-city-bristol?page=13

The players looked like they were unsure of what their role was after the subs.

Getting worried about being able to make the play-offs now.

Baffling second half collapse and a very strange, slow reaction by the manager to what was a very simple tactical change from Bristol.

They thought they could make the playoffs? I must find out what they drink up there.