Am I the only one?

[Davefevs]

43 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

I've seen us in lower leagues, I've seen us thrashed by more, I've seen us in a lot worse situations. 

But I don't think I've walked out down Winterstoke Road more pissed off, bored and thinking "why am I doing this" than the last two home games.

It isn't just me either. My neighbour in the Dolman said he thinks this might be his last season as a STH. He's been going for years. 

Given that we've had a lot worse sides than we have now, I've tried to justify my feelings. 

I think it's because we - the fanbase - had our expectations high this season and the AG results and the general atmosphere surrounding the club at present just seems as flat as ****.  Even Pearson's last interview after the Birmingham defeat sounded as boring and as uninterested as could be.

Entitled some might say. But my response is if you pay the best part of £600 + the travel, the time, the other expenses, to see your club, you are entitled to think those in charge of it at least give a shit. 

I'm long in the tooth enough to know that this ennui could soon dissipate with a couple of lively results. 

But my point is that the OP is certainly not alone with feeling it. 

All fair RR, we all view things different, different tolerances, different measurements of expectations, etc.  kinda what keeps this forum going.

I don’t think you’re response comes across as entitled either.

[Supersonic Robin]

22 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

I don't want Hoden back, but we were 13th in the league table and he had a 44% win ratio when he was sacked. Just sayin'...

We also had the worst xG in the league, the worst xGA in the league, a huge injury crises due to our dreadful/lack of pre-season, and we absolutely smashed the Championship record for least shots in a season.

Almost every single metric had us down as a bottom 3 standard team. A mildly fortunate start to the season, combined with the individual heroics of Bentley & Kalas, made our league position look a little healthier than we deserved at the point of Holden's sacking. Make no mistake though, results had started aligning with performance standard, and the primary goal of Pearson's initial appointment was to simply avoid relegation.

[ChrisBW]

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I take your point and some are better than others but there are a lot of clueless owners around.

NP has that experience and lots of it to fall back on but there are quite a few unimpressive appointments these days.

NP is 60, could go on for years if he wanted. Look at some managers who go on and on.

Had Martin, Carrick, Parker, maybe Heckingbottom although as I say good job with poor resouces at Barnsley, Kompany, Maresca took over in late February 2021...we would be worse off in a host of ways.

Farke may also have seen us slide but who knows. Two Championship titles but two fails at PL level.

Cooper has kinda spawned his way forward a bit.

I’m not sure what your point is.

[Davefevs]

Just now, Supersonic Robin said:

and the primary goal of Pearson's initial appointment was to simply avoid relegation.

And we achieved that relatively early on in reality.  I still believe that he then started testing out the squad’s character (senior players) and who from the younger group were not just up for the journey but good enough too.

Had we not got those early wins I think he’d have gone - let’s get some nil-nils, get points the hard way, and go from there.

We didn’t need to.

[Mr Popodopolous]

22 minutes ago, ChrisBW said:

I’m not sure what your point is.

We would have done worse had many of those young managers taken over in March 2021.

I don't necessarily include e.g. Mark Robins as genuinely impressed at his Coventry work and he has had a varied career. A lot of these are silver spoon, promoted beyond their track record to Parachute bolstered clubs.

[BritAbroad]

For me, Nige has done a great job with what he's had to work with, and if he was given more, I have no doubt he'd do even better. Why should someone else be given a chance to have a free reign and spend as they like when they haven't earned it, when Nige has. For what it's worth, I don't think the problem is Nige - I think it's the club keeping his hands tied and not letting him have that free reign. I appreciate everything SL has done, but he seems to flip-flop on how he wants the club run.

[Dr Balls]

5 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

We would have done worse had many of those young managers taken over in March 2021.

I don't necessarily include e.g. Mark Robins as genuinely impressed at his Coventry work and he has had a varied career. A lot of these are silver spoon, promoted beyond their track record to Parachute bolstered clubs.

Agreed. Nige was tasked of making a silk purse out of a sow’s ear - cut wages, sell players for a profit, bring on academy prospects, boost the team, and improve our league position at the very least (and avoid relegation when first appointed), if not even getting promotion to the Premier League.

Of the things that he can control, he has achieved all of those, plus he has each year improved our league position, despite the contradictions inherent in the various tasks (I.e. boasting the team while cutting wages and selling players at a profit). We are again a solid and established Championship club for whom relegation is unlikely rather than a constant threat. And that has been achieved without the Ashton technique of spending money like water, or the Johnson “clubs in the bag” approach.

However, we do have a problem playing counter-attacking football at pace against teams who sit back and let us keep possession. Our midfield without Scott is built on players who provide cover, sit in and tackle, rather than have much in the way of creativity. I am sure Nige appreciates that but unearthing the next Scott or Maddison is far easier said than done, especially when the budget you are being given would make the average Aldi shopper baulk at what you could really get for the money. Scouring Leagues 1 and 2 and Scotland for top Championship level talent at bargain prices or even no fee at all is extremely difficult, and doesn’t always come off e.g. Kane Wilson.

Remember after the first 2 games last season, we had more goals but no points. And we can only hope for a better refereeing performance against Hull tonight than what we suffered last season.

[ralphindevon]

When we have these discussions I’m always struggling to think who we might get in as manager.

I see people mention Robins and Schumacher but if they carry on being successful there’s no way they’re going to come here as their next club. 

[IAmNick]

11 hours ago, firstdivision said:

Under Lee Johnson, Bristol City finished in three of their five highest league positions since 1980.  8th in the Championship (2018-19), 11th (2017-18) and 12th (2018-19)

Also in the top five: Gary Johnson - 4th in the Championship 2007-08, Jimmy Lumsden 9th in the 'Championship' 1990-91. 

Not quite - Gary finished 10th twice after his 4th place!

So it'd be Gary 4th, Lee 8th, Lumsden 9th, Gary 10th, Gary 10th.

[firstdivision]

53 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

Not quite - Gary finished 10th twice after his 4th place!

So it'd be Gary 4th, Lee 8th, Lumsden 9th, Gary 10th, Gary 10th.

So three of the top seven, not five, Nick, for Lee.

I somehow overlooked those two seasons for Gary - still getting over the disappointment of Wembley. 

Edited August 25, 2023 by firstdivision

[prankerd]

8 hours ago, Red-Robbo said:

I've seen us in lower leagues, I've seen us thrashed by more, I've seen us in a lot worse situations. 

But I don't think I've walked out down Winterstoke Road more pissed off, bored and thinking "why am I doing this" than the last two home games.

It isn't just me either. My neighbour in the Dolman said he thinks this might be his last season as a STH. He's been going for years. 

Given that we've had a lot worse sides than we have now, I've tried to justify my feelings. 

I think it's because we - the fanbase - had our expectations high this season and the AG results and the general atmosphere surrounding the club at present just seems as flat as ****.  Even Pearson's last interview after the Birmingham defeat sounded as boring and as uninterested as could be.

Entitled some might say. But my response is if you pay the best part of £600 + the travel, the time, the other expenses, to see your club, you are entitled to think those in charge of it at least give a shit. 

I'm long in the tooth enough to know that this ennui could soon dissipate with a couple of lively results. 

But my point is that the OP is certainly not alone with feeling it. 

There is no chance in hell that the last 2 home games have been the worst you have ever seen at city, stop being so dramatic, theres fans like southend who have just got a 10 point deduction and dont know whether they will be a club in the future and your neighbour is thinking of ending his season ticket because of a boring 1-1 draw and a loss to Birmingham i guess he doesnt watch away games then, didnt like millwall or oxford? 

We have lost our best player, got countless injuries to important players and your panicking and moaning after 3 games!

 

[Northern Red]

1 hour ago, ralphindevon said:

When we have these discussions I’m always struggling to think who we might get in as manager.

I see people mention Robins and Schumacher but if they carry on being successful there’s no way they’re going to come here as their next club. 

Fully expecting it to be Jason Euell and I'll be pleasantly surprised if it isn't.

[And Its Smith]

30 minutes ago, prankerd said:

There is no chance in hell that the last 2 home games have been the worst you have ever seen at city, stop being so dramatic, theres fans like southend who have just got a 10 point deduction and dont know whether they will be a club in the future and your neighbour is thinking of ending his season ticket because of a boring 1-1 draw and a loss to Birmingham i guess he doesnt watch away games then, didnt like millwall or oxford? 

We have lost our best player, got countless injuries to important players and your panicking and moaning after 3 games!

 

I’m not sure what you read but he didn’t say they are the two worst games he’s ever seen at Ashton Gate. 

[ExiledAjax]

10 hours ago, Davefevs said:

We do, it appears that we don’t want to use that opportunity.

Which would be a damn shame, as it will be a rare occasion that we again have the resources we have now. 

10 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

Why don’t people just chill out and see where we are after 15 games?!  We will have much more info about Pearson’s ability to get the best out of his team. 

I can only speak for myself but ultimately my musings on Pearson's future come from the musings in the interviews and my impression of the personalities involved rather than the three league performances so far.

Broadly those performances have been ok. Full and a bit lacklustre, and low on true chance creation, but other than that broadly ok. I don't think we're looking like promotion contenders at this stage, but I'll concede that our defensive figures are decent, probably just about good enough that with a firing attack we'd be in with a shout of the top 10 finish that seemed to be the popular prediction in pre-season.

But, as you say, I agree that 10 games, or the international break, is the time to really assess our chances.

[And Its Smith]

1 minute ago, ExiledAjax said:

Which would be a damn shame, as it will be a rare occasion that we again have the resources we have now. 

I can only speak for myself but ultimately my musings on Pearson's future come from the musings in the interviews and my impression of the personalities involved rather than the three league performances so far.

Broadly those performances have been ok. Full and a bit lacklustre, and low on true chance creation, but other than that broadly ok. I don't think we're looking like promotion contenders at this stage, but I'll concede that our defensive figures are decent, probably just about good enough that with a firing attack we'd be in with a shout of the top 10 finish that seemed to be the popular prediction in pre-season.

But, as you say, I agree that 10 games, or the international break, is the time to really assess our chances.

Ultimately he will be judged by league position alone. No excuses on injuries or what if we had won that game etc.   if we are 20 games in and we are top 10 then carry on. If we are 11-16th then the calls to sack him will be growing.  If we are below 16th then he will be sacked and even his biggest fans won’t be able to complain about that really.  This is the season we need to show progress.  Until there is proof he’s not the man to give us that progress then we need to get behind him.  

[ExiledAjax]

Just now, And Its Smith said:

Ultimately he will be judged by league position alone. No excuses on injuries or what if we had won that game etc.   if we are 20 games in and we are top 10 then carry on. If we are 11-16th then the calls to sack him will be growing.  If we are below 16th then he will be sacked and even his biggest fans won’t be able to complain about that really.  This is the season we need to show progress.  Until there is proof he’s not the man to give us that progress then we need to get behind him.  

And as I've said time and time and time again - objectively judging a manager on league position alone is stupid, shortsighted, and leads to knee-jerk decisions.

He, and every manager, should be judged on performance, indicative stats and figures, and trends in those areas, with mitigating factors taken into account. 

My judgement, based on that second paragraph, is that we have stalled, plateaued, are coasting, whatever language you want. I come to the same conclusion as you though: this is the season we need to show (more) progress. 

[Nogbad the Bad]

5 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Ultimately he will be judged by league position alone. No excuses on injuries or what if we had won that game etc.   if we are 20 games in and we are top 10 then carry on. If we are 11-16th then the calls to sack him will be growing.  If we are below 16th then he will be sacked and even his biggest fans won’t be able to complain about that really.  This is the season we need to show progress.  Until there is proof he’s not the man to give us that progress then we need to get behind him.  

Why would anyone expect us to be top 10, and why would there be growing calls for him to be sacked if we're in mid table?

Your expectations for the season are unrealistic.

[supercidered]

17 hours ago, The hand of RO'D said:

Excited with the prospect of Nige potentially leaving after this season?

Controversial post I know. Now, don’t get me wrong, the job he has done to this point has been great. He has trimmed the wage bill and has had limited funds at his disposal since he’s arrived which could be detrimental to how his success will be perceived in years to come. Look at when Leicester won the premier league, a lot of credit came Niges way from the players who were involved who said if it wasn’t for Nige sorting issues behind the scenes they wouldn’t have had that success. Are we at a similar crossroads?

The football since he’s taken over hasn’t been great. We had terrible form at home for a long time, struggled to take the game to the opposition and have treaded water in mid table for his reign. Has Nige sorted the club out off the pitch but has subsequently ran his course with the club? Is SL ready to take the plunge in another manager with fresh ideas who will bring, in my opinion, a much needed footballing identity to the club? Perhaps why we’re seeing the purse strings tightened after the sale of Scott & Semenyo?

Entitely my opinion but I feel we need a new coach, not a manager, with a clear footballing identity and style of play to take us to the next level.

This Post smacks of, I'm a bit bored and could do with some notifications and a reaction. 

Congratulations. It worked!

[And Its Smith]

1 minute ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

Why would anyone expect us to be top 10, and why would there be growing calls for him to be sacked if we're in mid table?

Your expectations for the season are unrealistic.

All I’ve commented on is what will happen if we are in those positions. I’ve not commented on my expectations.   Pearson himself said we are aiming for the play offs though so maybe talk to him about unrealistic expectations! 

11 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

And as I've said time and time and time again - objectively judging a manager on league position alone is stupid, shortsighted, and leads to knee-jerk decisions.

He, and every manager, should be judged on performance, indicative stats and figures, and trends in those areas, with mitigating factors taken into account. 

My judgement, based on that second paragraph, is that we have stalled, plateaued, are coasting, whatever language you want. I come to the same conclusion as you though: this is the season we need to show (more) progress. 

I don’t disagree but most fans are stupid, short sighted and knee jerks! 

[Nogbad the Bad]

5 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

All I’ve commented on is what will happen if we are in those positions. I’ve not commented on my expectations.   Pearson himself said we are aiming for the play offs though so maybe talk to him about unrealistic expectations! 

 

You've no idea what will happen in those circumstances so can only assume your comments to be based on your own thoughts.

If you're saying you know this is how SL will view things I'd say his expectations are totally unrealistic.

As things stand, without bolstering the squad, we're a mid table team and that's the best SL can expect. 

 

[Baba Yaga]

A lot will depend for Nige on how the next few months go but at the moment I hope he extends and stays a couple more years even if there is more mid table football this year. The strategy they have adopted I support and want to see it embedded more, ideally with the same manager to oversee it as one worry is that the next person won't and it falls away. Really not buying this narrative that Lansdown has it in for NP and is reluctant to renew the contract due to his strong personality. Also not convinced that spending big in the last 2 weeks of the window now that Scott has been sold is a smart idea that will shoot them up the table and possibly to the prem. I am quite happy to moan about Nige for certain things such as team selection after a loss but I still back him as the right manager for City who is working with the bigger picture in mind.

[And Its Smith]

3 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

You've no idea what will happen in those circumstances so can only assume your comments to be based on your own thoughts.

If you're saying you know this is how SL will view things I'd say his expectations are totally unrealistic.

As things stand, without bolstering the squad, we're a mid table team and that's the best SL can expect. 

 

I’ve supported City for over 30 years and been on this forum for well over 10 years.  I think it’s pretty easy to predict the mood by league position for the season ahead.  So I’ve got a good idea what will happen in those circumstances. 

[Jeez]

13 hours ago, redkev said:

as I see it at the moment we’re not gonna be troubling the play off positions this year but things by the end of this season should all really be in place to have a right go of it next year , if we haven’t reached that place by the end of the season I think Nige will be under great pressure ,

I would be keeping my eyes on how Steven Schumacher does with Plymouth this year

Kev - What things will be in place by the end of this season that will mean we can have a right go next season?

 

[BasSavage88]

 

 

[Davefevs]

22 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

All I’ve commented on is what will happen if we are in those positions. I’ve not commented on my expectations.   Pearson himself said we are aiming for the play offs though so maybe talk to him about unrealistic expectations! 

I don’t disagree but most fans are stupid, short sighted and knee jerks! 

I guess every team’s aim is to get promoted.

Then comes a set of expectations / targets / measures of achievement.

Im not saying it’s anywhere near as basic as this, or that these are the right categories, but if I put it into our job type objectives:

Autos - top performer 

POs - exceeded expectations

Top 10 - above 

Top 14 - met

Top 18 - below

Below - did not meet

if this was Nige’s appraisal, I think below 14th starts to get Steve twitchy.

Of course, these objectives should be multiple, inc things like financial performance too, e.g. did he stick to the wage bill, did he generate transfer revenue.

If it truly was just league position driving Nige’s position, then I think we’d see different decisions made on selling Alex, or the tightness of the wage budget.

 

[And Its Smith]

4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I guess every team’s aim is to get promoted.

Then comes a set of expectations / targets / measures of achievement.

Im not saying it’s anywhere near as basic as this, or that these are the right categories, but if I put it into our job type objectives:

Autos - top performer 

POs - exceeded expectations

Top 10 - above 

Top 14 - met

Top 18 - below

Below - did not meet

if this was Nige’s appraisal, I think below 14th starts to get Steve twitchy.

Of course, these objectives should be multiple, inc things like financial performance too, e.g. did he stick to the wage bill, did he generate transfer revenue.

If it truly was just league position driving Nige’s position, then I think we’d see different decisions made on selling Alex, or the tightness of the wage budget.

 

I think most fans look at it in quite a basic way. Nige has said we are aiming for play offs, which is fair enough. Fans have been asked to be patient over the last two season, again fair enough.  But as of today, the expectations are now higher amongst fans, which is shown by the overreaction to the last game.  Most fans, in my opinion, now want/expect to see a top half finish with a bit of a glimmer of hope of play offs this season, at times.   Anything less than that and the knives will be sharpened, rightly or wrongly 

Edited August 25, 2023 by And Its Smith

[Davefevs]

True.

 

And I guess it looks a bit shit if you come out and say - we are aiming to do a tinsy-winsy but better than last season, but with a good wind behind us we might give it a good go!

I’m not suggesting that’s what they really think, but just imagine the fans if that was the message.

Ifs, buts and maybe, but should we win tonight, 7 points from 4 games.  Personally I don’t work like that, but it’s certainly a game we can win.

Edited August 25, 2023 by Davefevs

[ChrisBW]

41 minutes ago, supercidered said:

This Post smacks of, I'm a bit bored and could do with some notifications and a reaction. 

Congratulations. It worked!

Wrong, I agree with them. 

[Red-Robbo]

9 hours ago, Supersonic Robin said:

We also had the worst xG in the league, the worst xGA in the league, a huge injury crises due to our dreadful/lack of pre-season, and we absolutely smashed the Championship record for least shots in a season.

Almost every single metric had us down as a bottom 3 standard team. A mildly fortunate start to the season, combined with the individual heroics of Bentley & Kalas, made our league position look a little healthier than we deserved at the point of Holden's sacking. Make no mistake though, results had started aligning with performance standard, and the primary goal of Pearson's initial appointment was to simply avoid relegation.

It has to be said, performances actually got worse in that initial period Pearson took over. We finished 19th, kept up by the fact others were even worse than us. 

However, he's pulled it around and we've actually got season-on-season improvements, so please don't think I'm criticising NP or saying Dean Holden is a better manager. 

Without extra recruitment I just think that slight upward slope of finishes might start to slope downwards, so am feeling slightly trepidatious and disconnected from the club this season so far. Would love it if my fears prove premature. 

[Shauntaylor85]

9 hours ago, Davefevs said:

All fair RR, we all view things different, different tolerances, different measurements of expectations, etc.  kinda what keeps this forum going.

I don’t think you’re response comes across as entitled either.

It depends if you are a local fan or not I feel. I travel 6 hours round trip to every city home game, every game is therefore an away game which doubles the frustration rather than a 20 min drive back to Clevedon.