Markthehorn Posted October 1, 2023 Report Share Posted October 1, 2023 They won't get a replay or points as no-one can prove Liverpool would have won or drawn the game if that goal had been given. Quite what the VAR and his assistant were doing at the time though to think the goal had been ruled onside which seems to be the crux of the issue. Cannot even say it was a subjective decision like a red card or penalty which VAR basically is tbh. Just another ref putting pressure on his mates or non mate on the pitch because they think it's wrong and the original ref feels obliged to agree with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markthehorn Posted October 1, 2023 Report Share Posted October 1, 2023 1 hour ago, W-S-M Seagull said: Ever since Mike Dean admitted he didn't send his mate to the monitor to save him I've questioned the integrity of VAR. It's all cloak and daggers and fans have no idea about what is going on. The audio needs to be released in real time which would go along way to easing concerns of integrity. No way does that goal get given as offside if someone has to walk fans through the decision of why it is offside. But for the ref and the linos to get it wrong. Plus the VAR ref and his assistant is a monumental mess up and it just shouldn't happen with that many involved. This wasn't even a subjective call. It was blatantly onside by quite a margin. Var ruling on offsides has often intrigued me. One frame can be onside, the next frame offside so it relies on the VAR officials using the correct frame of which I'm not at all convinced that they do. You then have to wonder why they don't use the FIFA system of having a chip in the ball which detects when the ball is touched. Using that you can then establish the correct frame to use without any subjectivity from humans. The fact they don't use the system raises doubts about integrity because it gives the impression that they can manipulate the situation for whatever outcome they may desire. Premier league rejected to bringing it in. https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/no-automated-offside-in-the-premier-league-next-season-knlk26nfg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W-S-M Seagull Posted October 1, 2023 Report Share Posted October 1, 2023 10 minutes ago, Markthehorn said: Premier league rejected to bringing it in. https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/no-automated-offside-in-the-premier-league-next-season-knlk26nfg And you have to wonder why.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerly known as ivan Posted October 1, 2023 Report Share Posted October 1, 2023 Liverpools statement tonight is hilarious! ‘Explore the range of options available’ What is the best they are hoping for from this??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted October 1, 2023 Report Share Posted October 1, 2023 1 hour ago, Markthehorn said: Premier league rejected to bringing it in. https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/no-automated-offside-in-the-premier-league-next-season-knlk26nfg 1 hour ago, W-S-M Seagull said: And you have to wonder why.... The automated offside used in the WC was very successful, as was VAR too. It’s the Stockley Park incompetents that are making the errors. It’s the PL’s / PGMOL’s people that are the problem. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted October 2, 2023 Report Share Posted October 2, 2023 They must have known they ballsed up seconds after the restart. Rule needs to be changed where they can stop the play and give the goal. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Oil Services Posted October 2, 2023 Report Share Posted October 2, 2023 (edited) Thoroughly enjoying the hoo-ha around all this, only this morning on the wireless there are ex-players suggesting again that ex-players be involved, because they have "played the game." Thing is there, they haven’t ever reffed the game. Most of them - ex-players, current players - appear to have a sketchy knowledge of some of the laws of the game. And there's one fella saying it could be "three or four" ex-players involved at Stockley Park. Imagine that: 3 officials plus a fourth at the game, a couple more at Stockley Park, as well as "three or four" ex-players. Also imagine, if you will, an ex-player of Manchester United overseeing a game at Anfield at Stockley Park - that will sort this out, that will end all the rancour, won't it? Because he will have "played the game." And they used to say, before this technology was brought in: what will we talk about after the game? Edited October 2, 2023 by Bristol Oil Services Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W-S-M Seagull Posted October 2, 2023 Report Share Posted October 2, 2023 1 minute ago, Bristol Oil Services said: Thoroughly enjoying the hoo-ha around all this, only this morning on the wireless there are ex-players suggesting again that ex-players be involved, because they have "played the game." Thing is there, they haven’t ever reffed the game. Most of them - ex-players, current players - appear to have a sketchy knowledge of some of the laws of the game. And there's one fella saying it could be "three or four" ex-players involved at Stockley Park. Imagine that: 3 officials plus a fourth at the game, a couple more at Stockley Park, as well as "three or four" ex-players. Also imagine, if you will, an ex-player of Manchester United overseeing a game at Anfield at Stockley Park - that will sort this out, that will end all the rancour, won't it? Because he will have "played the game." And they used to say, before this technology was brought in: what will we talk about after the game? Personally I think the problem is that they are not in the actual stadium. Being locked away at Stockley Park doesn't give me too much confidence. But if they were in the stadium they'd have seen the ref had not given the goal and therefore wouldn't have said check complete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markthehorn Posted October 2, 2023 Report Share Posted October 2, 2023 2 hours ago, Super said: They must have known they ballsed up seconds after the restart. Rule needs to be changed where they can stop the play and give the goal. That seems to be the problem. All could have been prevented with some common sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Show Me The Money! Posted October 2, 2023 Report Share Posted October 2, 2023 The main reason for this VAR decision being wrong is the actual current offside rule. FIFA or whoever it is who sets the rules seems to have forgotten what the purpose of the offside rule is, which is to stop goal hanging. If the rule was changed so that if you can clearly see that the attacking player is ahead of the last defender then it's offside. Can't be possible to get it wrong then. This current rule of the attacking player's big toe nail is offside is just bonkers. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midred Posted October 2, 2023 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2023 3 hours ago, Super said: They must have known they ballsed up seconds after the restart. Rule needs to be changed where they can stop the play and give the goal. There's knowing it and admitting it. Being a bit more humble would help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Turnip Posted October 2, 2023 Report Share Posted October 2, 2023 46 minutes ago, Show Me The Money! said: The main reason for this VAR decision being wrong is the actual current offside rule. FIFA or whoever it is who sets the rules seems to have forgotten what the purpose of the offside rule is, which is to stop goal hanging. If the rule was changed so that if you can clearly see that the attacking player is ahead of the last defender then it's offside. Can't be possible to get it wrong then. This current rule of the attacking player's big toe nail is offside is just bonkers. How do you define "clearly see" though? Wherever you draw the line it will still need VAR to determine whether it's offside for the close calls. I think the reason was human error. Need to look at control measures to stop it happening again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1960maaan Posted October 2, 2023 Report Share Posted October 2, 2023 12 minutes ago, Bob Turnip said: How do you define "clearly see" though? Wherever you draw the line it will still need VAR to determine whether it's offside for the close calls. I think the reason was human error. Need to look at control measures to stop it happening again. The only way to limit the problems with lines and close calls etc, is to just use a players boots as the marker. No need for the extra drop lines, to worry about the part of the arm you can score with etc. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dolman Pragmatist Posted October 2, 2023 Report Share Posted October 2, 2023 16 minutes ago, Bob Turnip said: How do you define "clearly see" though? Wherever you draw the line it will still need VAR to determine whether it's offside for the close calls. I think the reason was human error. Need to look at control measures to stop it happening again. Make it daylight between the attacker and the last defender; and change the rule so that you have to be offside when the pass is made and when the pass is received to stop this nonsense about coming back from an offside position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixtyseconds Posted October 2, 2023 Report Share Posted October 2, 2023 15 hours ago, formerly known as ivan said: Liverpools statement tonight is hilarious! ‘Explore the range of options available’ What is the best they are hoping for from this??? The Klopp has been a world leader. Football has followed the Klopp pressing machine. He is a progressive. Option one: Subs will be lined up on each side of the pitch horizontally carrying a giant skipping rope indicating where the offside line is. Offside players will be felled by the rope. This rope will only exist in the half Liverpool defend. No need for VAR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted October 2, 2023 Report Share Posted October 2, 2023 (edited) This was the goal line system but who remembers this one after the restart in 2020 post the Covid break. Just adds to my general strong dislike at minimum of Veeelaa. They stayed up by one point then within a year sold Grealish for £100m. Edited October 2, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Show Me The Money! Posted October 2, 2023 Report Share Posted October 2, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, Bob Turnip said: How do you define "clearly see" though? Wherever you draw the line it will still need VAR to determine whether it's offside for the close calls. I think the reason was human error. Need to look at control measures to stop it happening again. Well, you could just use s common sense rule of the majority of the attacking player is ahead of the last defender. Would be a lot harder to question decisions than the current rule ...but if course "common sense" is banned in football. Everything has to be black or white. Edited October 2, 2023 by Show Me The Money! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Turnip Posted October 2, 2023 Report Share Posted October 2, 2023 21 minutes ago, Show Me The Money! said: black or white Rules generally are though - it's kind of the point! In your scenario people will argue about whether the majority of the player was in front or not, the same as they argue if it's based on clear daylight, or based on the foot etc. The point is whichever way you want to define offside, you either except there will be mistakes or you use VAR to reduce the mistakes from happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Show Me The Money! Posted October 2, 2023 Report Share Posted October 2, 2023 2 minutes ago, Bob Turnip said: Rules generally are though - it's kind of the point! In your scenario people will argue about whether the majority of the player was in front or not, the same as they argue if it's based on clear daylight, or based on the foot etc. The point is whichever way you want to define offside, you either except there will be mistakes or you use VAR to reduce the mistakes from happening. Before VAR though offsides were never this exact and there wasn't all the uproar on whether someone's big toe was ahead of the defender. The premise used to be if the player looked level then they were onside. Let the attacking team have the advantage so we get more chances on goal. All the precise rules and VAR delays are killing the entertainment and spectacle 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markthehorn Posted October 2, 2023 Report Share Posted October 2, 2023 5 hours ago, Midred said: There's knowing it and admitting it. Being a bit more humble would help. Why did they miss the whole thing and think goal had been given is the big question! Can only presume the VAR weren’t watching and just don’t want to admit it . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maltshoveller Posted October 2, 2023 Report Share Posted October 2, 2023 6 hours ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said: Make it daylight between the attacker and the last defender; and change the rule so that you have to be offside when the pass is made and when the pass is received to stop this nonsense about coming back from an offside position. You would still need the lines to see if there is clear daylight or not plus it would take twice as long to get it right long delay checking if offside when pass is made then another long delay checking if offside when pass is received Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maltshoveller Posted October 2, 2023 Report Share Posted October 2, 2023 22 hours ago, Super said: There is nothing wrong with VAR. Its the useless idiots in charge of it. I dont think they are idiots Got a horrible feeling it is more sinister than that Had that been a Serie A game with Juventus getting that go their way we would all be talking about brown envelopes etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted October 2, 2023 Report Share Posted October 2, 2023 41 minutes ago, Maltshoveller said: I dont think they are idiots Got a horrible feeling it is more sinister than that Had that been a Serie A game with Juventus getting that go their way we would all be talking about brown envelopes etc Look at how many decisions they are still getting wrong. The majority of them are completely useless. Get ex players involved at least they'll have an understanding of the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markthehorn Posted October 2, 2023 Report Share Posted October 2, 2023 55 minutes ago, Super said: Look at how many decisions they are still getting wrong. The majority of them are completely useless. Get ex players involved at least they'll have an understanding of the game. Well would still be subjective but they could give a player view point although there might still be allegations of bias and agendas . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted October 2, 2023 Report Share Posted October 2, 2023 We keep on hearing about Howard Webb and how he’s now in charge and he’s gonna make it all better. Well, why doesn’t Howard Webb just be the Video Ref? Why does he not just do it himself. If the people working under him aren’t good enough, get involved fella and take direct action. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petehinton Posted October 2, 2023 Report Share Posted October 2, 2023 (edited) This has been so totally blown out of proportion it’s pathetic imo. Talk of having the game replayed? Give me strength. It’s not a World Cup final. It’s a huge **** up, but Liverpool have been on the right end of some poor calls in their favour since VAR was introduced but they were fine with that. We didn’t see anywhere near this level of scrutiny for the goal line tech issues that sent meant Villa didn’t go down. It’ll have no bearing on where either team finishes this season, but I’m sure they’ll try and make it relevant somehow. If it’d ended 1-1, a result Liverpool would’ve been broadly happy with probably, it wouldn’t be getting half the coverage it currently is. But Matip Shanghai’d one into his own net through no fault of an official so it’s the end of the world. Edited October 2, 2023 by petehinton 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchred Posted October 3, 2023 Report Share Posted October 3, 2023 Just heard the audio, not only is it damming but absolutely embarrassing! It's like downing Street when the pandemic struck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markthehorn Posted October 3, 2023 Report Share Posted October 3, 2023 4 minutes ago, frenchred said: Just heard the audio, not only is it damming but absolutely embarrassing! It's like downing Street when the pandemic struck! They know they messed up big time here ! And was too late before it was noticed https://twitter.com/ChrisWheatley/status/1709261533027450930 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordy62 Posted October 3, 2023 Report Share Posted October 3, 2023 It’s just human error. We’re all prone to mistakes. Fortunately most of us don’t make such high profile ones. Liverpool were unlucky, but replay talk is nonsense. Time to get over it and move on. At least the consequences aren’t as big as the not given goal Villa conceded. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanterne Rouge Posted October 3, 2023 Report Share Posted October 3, 2023 Clinton Morrison is losing it big time on Sky over it. He`s going mental! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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