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VAR (part 3965 !)


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They won't get a replay or points as no-one can prove Liverpool would have won or drawn the game if that goal had been given.

Quite what the VAR and his assistant were doing at the time though to think the goal had been ruled onside which seems to be the crux of the issue.

Cannot even say it was a subjective decision like a red card or penalty which VAR basically is tbh.

Just another ref putting pressure on his mates or non mate on the pitch because they think it's wrong and the original ref feels obliged to agree with them. 

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1 hour ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Ever since Mike Dean admitted he didn't send his mate to the monitor to save him I've questioned the integrity of VAR. 

It's all cloak and daggers and fans have no idea about what is going on. 

The audio needs to be released in real time which would go along way to easing concerns of integrity. No way does that goal get given as offside if someone has to walk fans through the decision of why it is offside. 

But for the ref and the linos to get it wrong. Plus the VAR ref and his assistant is a monumental mess up and it just shouldn't happen with that many involved. This wasn't even a subjective call. It was blatantly onside by quite a margin. 

Var ruling on offsides has often intrigued me. One frame can be onside, the next frame offside so it relies on the VAR officials using the correct frame of which I'm not at all convinced that they do. 

You then have to wonder why they don't use the FIFA system of having a chip in the ball which detects when the ball is touched. Using that you can then establish the correct frame to use without any subjectivity from humans.

The fact they don't use the system raises doubts about integrity because it gives the impression that they can manipulate the situation for whatever outcome they may desire. 

Premier league rejected to bringing it in. 

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/no-automated-offside-in-the-premier-league-next-season-knlk26nfg

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1 hour ago, Markthehorn said:

⬇️⬇️⬇️

1 hour ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

And you have to wonder why....

The automated offside used in the WC was very successful, as was VAR too.  It’s the Stockley Park incompetents that are making the errors.  It’s the PL’s / PGMOL’s people that are the problem.

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Thoroughly enjoying the hoo-ha around all this, only this morning on the wireless there are ex-players suggesting again that ex-players be involved, because they have "played the game." Thing is there, they haven’t ever reffed the game. Most of them - ex-players, current players - appear to have a sketchy knowledge of some of the laws of the game.

And there's one fella saying it could be "three or four" ex-players involved at Stockley Park. Imagine that: 3 officials plus a fourth at the game, a couple more at Stockley Park, as well as "three or four" ex-players.

Also imagine, if you will, an ex-player of Manchester United overseeing a game at Anfield at Stockley Park - that will sort this out, that will end all the rancour, won't it? Because he will have "played the game."

And they used to say, before this technology was brought in: what will we talk about after the game?

Edited by Bristol Oil Services
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1 minute ago, Bristol Oil Services said:

Thoroughly enjoying the hoo-ha around all this, only this morning on the wireless there are ex-players suggesting again that ex-players be involved, because they have "played the game." Thing is there, they haven’t ever reffed the game. Most of them - ex-players, current players - appear to have a sketchy knowledge of some of the laws of the game.

And there's one fella saying it could be "three or four" ex-players involved at Stockley Park. Imagine that: 3 officials plus a fourth at the game, a couple more at Stockley Park, as well as "three or four" ex-players.

Also imagine, if you will, an ex-player of Manchester United overseeing a game at Anfield at Stockley Park - that will sort this out, that will end all the rancour, won't it? Because he will have "played the game."

And they used to say, before this technology was brought in: what will we talk about after the game?

Personally I think the problem is that they are not in the actual stadium. 

Being locked away at Stockley Park doesn't give me too much confidence. 

But if they were in the stadium they'd have seen the ref had not given the goal and therefore wouldn't have said check complete. 

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The main reason for this VAR decision being wrong is the actual current offside rule. FIFA or whoever it is who sets the rules seems to have forgotten what the purpose of the offside rule is, which is to stop goal hanging. 

If the rule was changed so that if you can clearly see that the attacking player is ahead of the last defender then it's offside. Can't be possible to get it wrong then. This current rule of the attacking player's big toe nail is offside is just bonkers.

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46 minutes ago, Show Me The Money! said:

The main reason for this VAR decision being wrong is the actual current offside rule. FIFA or whoever it is who sets the rules seems to have forgotten what the purpose of the offside rule is, which is to stop goal hanging. 

If the rule was changed so that if you can clearly see that the attacking player is ahead of the last defender then it's offside. Can't be possible to get it wrong then. This current rule of the attacking player's big toe nail is offside is just bonkers.

 

How do you define "clearly see" though? Wherever you draw the line it will still need VAR to determine whether it's offside for the close calls. I think the reason was human error. Need to look at control measures to stop it happening again.

 

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12 minutes ago, Bob Turnip said:

 

How do you define "clearly see" though? Wherever you draw the line it will still need VAR to determine whether it's offside for the close calls. I think the reason was human error. Need to look at control measures to stop it happening again.

 

The only way to limit the problems with lines and close calls etc, is to just use a players boots as the marker. No need for the extra drop lines, to worry about the part of the arm you can score with etc. 

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16 minutes ago, Bob Turnip said:

 

How do you define "clearly see" though? Wherever you draw the line it will still need VAR to determine whether it's offside for the close calls. I think the reason was human error. Need to look at control measures to stop it happening again.

 

Make it daylight between the attacker and the last defender; and change the rule so that you have to be offside when the pass is made and when the pass is received to stop this nonsense about coming back from an offside position.

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15 hours ago, formerly known as ivan said:

Liverpools statement tonight is hilarious! ‘Explore the range of options available’ 🤣

What is the best they are hoping for from this???

The Klopp has been a world leader.

Football has followed the Klopp pressing machine.

He is a progressive.

Option one:

Subs will be lined up on each side of the pitch horizontally carrying a giant skipping rope indicating where the offside line is.

Offside players will be felled by the rope.

This rope will only exist in the half Liverpool defend. 

No need for VAR. 

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3 hours ago, Bob Turnip said:

 

How do you define "clearly see" though? Wherever you draw the line it will still need VAR to determine whether it's offside for the close calls. I think the reason was human error. Need to look at control measures to stop it happening again.

 

Well, you could just use s common sense rule of the majority of the attacking player is ahead of the last defender. Would be a lot harder to question decisions than the current rule 

...but if course "common sense" is banned in football. Everything has to be black or white.

Edited by Show Me The Money!
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21 minutes ago, Show Me The Money! said:

black or white

Rules generally are though - it's kind of the point!

In your scenario people will argue about whether the majority of the player was in front or not, the same as they argue if it's based on clear daylight, or based on the foot etc. The point is whichever way you want to define offside, you either except there will be mistakes or you use VAR to reduce the mistakes from happening.

 

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2 minutes ago, Bob Turnip said:

Rules generally are though - it's kind of the point!

In your scenario people will argue about whether the majority of the player was in front or not, the same as they argue if it's based on clear daylight, or based on the foot etc. The point is whichever way you want to define offside, you either except there will be mistakes or you use VAR to reduce the mistakes from happening.

 

Before VAR though offsides were never this exact and there wasn't all the uproar on whether someone's big toe was ahead of the defender. The premise used to be if the player looked level then they were onside. Let the attacking team have the advantage so we get more chances on goal.

All the precise rules and VAR delays are killing the entertainment and spectacle 

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6 hours ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Make it daylight between the attacker and the last defender; and change the rule so that you have to be offside when the pass is made and when the pass is received to stop this nonsense about coming back from an offside position.

You would still need the lines to see if there is clear daylight or not

plus it would take twice as long to get it right

long delay checking if offside when pass is made

then another long delay checking if offside when pass is received 

 

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22 hours ago, Super said:

There is nothing wrong with VAR. Its the useless idiots in charge of it.

I dont think they are idiots

Got a horrible feeling it is more sinister than that

Had that been a Serie A game with Juventus getting that go their way

we would all be talking about brown envelopes etc

 

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41 minutes ago, Maltshoveller said:

I dont think they are idiots

Got a horrible feeling it is more sinister than that

Had that been a Serie A game with Juventus getting that go their way

we would all be talking about brown envelopes etc

 

Look at how many decisions they are still getting wrong. The majority of them are completely useless. Get ex players involved at least they'll have an understanding of the game.

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55 minutes ago, Super said:

Look at how many decisions they are still getting wrong. The majority of them are completely useless. Get ex players involved at least they'll have an understanding of the game.

Well would still be subjective but they could give a player view point although there might still be allegations of bias and agendas .

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We keep on hearing about Howard Webb and how he’s now in charge and he’s gonna make it all better. 
Well, why doesn’t Howard Webb just be the Video Ref? 

Why does he not just do it himself. If the people working under him aren’t good enough, get involved fella and take direct action. 

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This has been so totally blown out of proportion it’s pathetic imo. Talk of having the game replayed? Give me strength. It’s not a World Cup final. It’s a huge **** up, but Liverpool have been on the right end of some poor calls in their favour since VAR was introduced but they were fine with that. We didn’t see anywhere near this level of scrutiny for the goal line tech issues that sent meant Villa didn’t go down. It’ll have no bearing on where either team finishes this season, but I’m sure they’ll try and make it relevant somehow. 
 

If it’d ended 1-1, a result Liverpool would’ve been broadly happy with probably, it wouldn’t be getting half the coverage it currently is. But Matip Shanghai’d one into his own net through no fault of an official so it’s the end of the world. 

Edited by petehinton
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It’s just human error. We’re all prone to mistakes. Fortunately most of us don’t make such high profile ones. Liverpool were unlucky, but replay talk is nonsense. Time to get over it and move on. At least the consequences aren’t as big as the not given goal Villa conceded. 

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