Middlesborough at home match thread

[cidered abroad]

3 minutes ago, Southport Red said:

So, FWIW, here’s my ‘two-penneth’. 
 

i liked Nige, I wanted him to stay longer. 
 

The way the top brass dumped him was shameful. 
 

JL poured petrol in the fire talking about ‘top 6’ etc.  BUT

The club I support today is the same club I have supported for about 60 years now, I wish nothing but good things for them. 
 

We have a new coaching team and I desperately hope they will bring the team success. All I can do to help that goal is support them. It’s not much, but it is my gift to give, and I will (continue) to give it willingly. COYRs. 

Good post @Southport Red

The game has changed so much in my 74 watching years. The change from all the time spent by both sides in each others penalty areas to back fours playing keep all is really annoying.

However all the developments in tactics are based on coaches trying to minimise goals against and increase goals for. Boring going from a throw in near opponents corner flag to our keeper is the way it is. We either get used to it or sit at home watching crap TV.

I may not like it but I'll keep on going until they screw the lid down. COYREDS

[Southport Red]

13 minutes ago, mason said:

BUT I disagree "the club" is now part of something else so its not the same, we rent the stadium and have no say over its uses or income. We have "top brass" who seem content to stay just where we are and seem frightened to go for the final step up.

A proven high level manager is discarded and not backed with suitible funds to make the jump up, while they prefer to take on a 3rd level manager and build again.

While king pins of previously built teams are sold off and we are left fed with just hope and words of better things to come, they havent yet Steve/Jon

 

But my main point was that, despite everything, I have a simple choice to make. Continue to support the team or withdraw my support. Do you disagree with that?

[cidered abroad]

1 hour ago, mason said:

BUT I disagree "the club" is now part of something else so its not the same, we rent the stadium and have no say over its uses or income. We have "top brass" who seem content to stay just where we are and seem frightened to go for the final step up.

A proven high level manager is discarded and not backed with suitible funds to make the jump up, while they prefer to take on a 3rd level manager and build again.

While king pins of previously built teams are sold off and we are left fed with just hope and words of better things to come, they havent yet Steve/Jon

 

WE DO NOT RENT ASHTON GATE FOOTBALL GROUND!

The only employees of Bristol City Football Club are players and coaches. Probably not the Tea Lady/Man. Possibly the medical staff? Thus we have to pay our share of the stadium use for all those formerly paid by City and now employed by and paid by Bristol Sport, and most of that is an exemption (I guess) of spending and not counted for FFP.

@mason

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, 1960maaan said:

Enjoyable day all round. Maybe not the best performance , but they are a very good side and for all their good movement , passing and possession we created the better chances. Scoring 3 and having 10 shots on target is another step up, so yeah, good day.

Funny game though, they were giving us a bit of a run around and I think that lead to us playing around the back for a while. We just needed to control things and take the sting out of their attacks. Not exciting but we just needed that for a spell, however boring .
Then we managed to start to get at them. Fantastic strike by TGH and he was unlucky from his free kick. We got a Pen (you read that correctly) and TC sort of made up for that terrible miss . We could have been going in 3-0 , but instead 6 minutes into the 2nd half 2-2. Difficult ball to deal with and I'm not sure if Vyner was trying to nod it back to a prone OLeary or head it over, he did neither. Then his ball to Tanner wasn't great, gets caught and 2-2, good finish by that walking wardrobe TBF.
Then it felt like the first 20 again, they dominated without creating too much. Again through the 2nd half we created better chances .
I thought the Subs did the jobs we needed them to do. Cornick is busy and annoying for defenders, he carried the ball well and was hard to knock off it. I said shortly after Mehmeti came on that I wanted to see him on the ball running at their back line. When he did , they looked terrified . As soon as he gets in the box they were frightened to tackle, when one did get a foot in it nearly caused an OG. Great finish from a tight angle by Sykes, who I thought had a real in and out game. Not sure where he had been told to play but several times on the ball players looking wide for a pass and he'd moved inside. It will take time to get his ideas across, but it looks like we may carry more of a threat than of late. 
Plus we get a Pen every other game, which is a bit of an improvement over the last 3 years.
 

I don’t think we were given the run around, just they were a bit more confident in what they were doing, but they didn’t create hardly anything.  They were quite “safe” imho.  I’m not sure we were taking any real sting out of Boro, but trying to gain control.

One of the things I looked at early this season was to see if there was any trend between conceding shots in batches, because I’ve felt for a long time we don’t take the sting out of games.  The data was inconclusive, although you could imagine what was going through my head at 50 and 52 mins!!!

An interesting but from James Piercy in his post-match interview.

1 hour ago, Southport Red said:

So, FWIW, here’s my ‘two-penneth’. 
 

i liked Nige, I wanted him to stay longer. 
 

The way the top brass dumped him was shameful. 
 

JL poured petrol in the fire talking about ‘top 6’ etc.  BUT

The club I support today is the same club I have supported for about 60 years now, I wish nothing but good things for them. 
 

We have a new coaching team and I desperately hope they will bring the team success. All I can do to help that goal is support them. It’s not much, but it is my gift to give, and I will (continue) to give it willingly. COYRs. 

Spot on.

[Davefevs]

6 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

WE DO NOT RENT ASHTON GATE FOOTBALL GROUND!

The only employees of Bristol City Football Club are players and coaches. Probably not the Tea Lady/Man. Possibly the medical staff? Thus we have to pay our share of the stadium use for all those formerly paid by City and now employed by and paid by Bristol Sport, and most of that is an exemption (I guess) of spending and not counted for FFP.

@mason

Sorry to correct you, but we do actually.  Bristol City FC Ltd rent it from Ashton Gare Ltd.

Bristol City FC Ltd has 201 employees:

 

[Sleepy1968]

FYI The Football League paper gave the match 5 stars (they gave the last match at QPR 1 star), and TGH the 'Star man'. I don't know what his rating was because his name seems too long for the way they display this graphic to show it. It might have been an 8 given that we had quite a few 7's.

Edited November 26, 2023 by Sleepy1968

[Alessandro]

Said it at half time and I’ll say it again - seemed noticeable how much braver the CB’s were on the ball, lovely to see and both Vyner and Dickie very capable of stepping out and it helps so much with keeping the opposition press guessing - good improvement.

Also seen a bit of stick for Tanner…think he did seemed to often be more one of three CB’s as we moved the ball across the pitch looking for space and his instructions were to be less expansive than Pring going forward. Also felt he/his area of the pitch was targeted for the overlap/overloads as Sykes got caught upfield - so was perhaps made to look to struggle more than he actually did, defensively. 
 

I enjoyed the game - felt like had we not made those couple of mistakes beginning of the second overloads, we were generally in control for large parts of the game. Obviously the second half got a bit hectic and open, from both teams.

Manning’s comments make sense - it’s not going to be high press/front foot/exciting football all the time - as JL and Tinnion banged on about before he was appointment - but knowing when to attack. Feel like we’re beginning to see that in that game there.

Dickie brilliant - TGH in his rightful spot at CM and looks undroppable now. 
 

Still want much more end product from Bell and Mehmeti - interesting to see Bell having to drop off a lot more.
 

[Davefevs]

@Alessandro the CBs bit continues the discussion had with @spudski and others in the week.

In some respects Matty James having a quiet game (by design or Boro’s tactics) meant our CBs was the route into their territory.

[mozo]

3 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I don’t think we were given the run around, just they were a bit more confident in what they were doing, but they didn’t create hardly anything.  They were quite “safe” imho.  I’m not sure we were taking any real sting out of Boro, but trying to gain control.

One of the things I looked at early this season was to see if there was any trend between conceding shots in batches, because I’ve felt for a long time we don’t take the sting out of games.  The data was inconclusive, although you could imagine what was going through my head at 50 and 52 mins!!!

An interesting but from James Piercy in his post-match interview.

Spot on.

We do seem to be Weimann times 11 sometimes; full of enthusiasm and energy, but lacking the cutting edge or clarity of thought when it matters.

If Manning can maintain that spirit and coach the lads to be a bit smarter then we'll do alright.

[frenchred]

3 hours ago, cidered abroad said:

WE DO NOT RENT ASHTON GATE FOOTBALL GROUND!

The only employees of Bristol City Football Club are players and coaches. Probably not the Tea Lady/Man. Possibly the medical staff? Thus we have to pay our share of the stadium use for all those formerly paid by City and now employed by and paid by Bristol Sport, and most of that is an exemption (I guess) of spending and not counted for FFP.

@mason

Wrong!

[spudski]

3 hours ago, Davefevs said:

@Alessandro the CBs bit continues the discussion had with @spudski and others in the week.

In some respects Matty James having a quiet game (by design or Boro’s tactics) meant our CBs was the route into their territory.

Sadly I missed yesterdays game Dave. Only seen the highlights.

[1960maaan]

5 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I don’t think we were given the run around, just they were a bit more confident in what they were doing, but they didn’t create hardly anything.  They were quite “safe” imho.  I’m not sure we were taking any real sting out of Boro, but trying to gain control.

I might be being a little unfair saying run around, but I thought they were much better in those early stages and we didn't look like getting a grip. It felt almost like reset, wanting to get a feel of the ball and work our way into the game, safely. Also while have safe possession we aren't chasing the ball.
I thought M'boro's passing and movement was excellent early on we didn't lay much of a glove on them. As we settled it felt like we gained some control , but their movement still caused problems. 
I see "taking the sting out' and gaining control as being very similar, they were imposing themselves on the game and we countered by keeping the ball.

Interesting bit by Piercy , going to take time for the team to evolve as Manning wants, but we did carry much more of a threat yesterday than we have done this year. 

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, spudski said:

Sadly I missed yesterdays game Dave. Only seen the highlights.

Full game was uploaded to Robins TV at 07:46….always uploaded early after a win!

[W-S-M Seagull]

8 hours ago, mason said:

BUT I disagree "the club" is now part of something else so its not the same, we rent the stadium and have no say over its uses or income. We have "top brass" who seem content to stay just where we are and seem frightened to go for the final step up.

A proven high level manager is discarded and not backed with suitible funds to make the jump up, while they prefer to take on a 3rd level manager and build again.

While king pins of previously built teams are sold off and we are left fed with just hope and words of better things to come, they havent yet Steve/Jon

 

Whilst we may 'technically' rent Ashton Gate the fact is the stadiums revenue is included in our FFP calculations. 

The football club and the stadium were separated to protect both entities in case one of them gets into trouble which makes total sense. 

It's all rather complicated and above my pay grade but I do know it's false to suggest we have no say in its income etc when it's income is included in our ffp calculations. 

Ashton Gate Ltds immediate parent is Bristol City Holdings Ltd. BC holdings is what our ffp calculation is worked out from I believe.

Coventry for example have a licence to play at the CBS arena. The CBS arena income wouldn't be used in Coventrys accounts. Only the income they recieve from the CBS, but the overall income, no.

Edited November 26, 2023 by W-S-M Seagull

[EstoniaTallinnRed]

21 hours ago, BigTone said:

We won. Savour the moment.

Yes Tone and I'm having a glass of Harveys Bristol Cream sherry right now with my wife to celebrate the win.I know it's a bit late, but I wasn't that well yesterday, I'm a bit better today,

[bcfc01]

54 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Full game was uploaded to Robins TV at 07:46….always uploaded early after a win!

I'll watch that back when I have a bit of time, probably late tonight to see if what I thought I saw in real time actually happened as I thought.

[Robbored]

There’s about two mins of highlights on YouTube. - essentially just the goals.

[BigTone]

25 minutes ago, EstoniaTallinnRed said:

Yes Tone and I'm having a glass of Harveys Bristol Cream sherry right now with my wife to celebrate the win.I know it's a bit late, but I wasn't that well yesterday, I'm a bit better today,

Good man, enjoy

[petehinton]

1 hour ago, Robbored said:

There’s about two mins of highlights on YouTube. - essentially just the goals.

Extended highlights (10 mins) available on the club website 

[JP Hampton]

9 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I don’t think we were given the run around, just they were a bit more confident in what they were doing, but they didn’t create hardly anything.  They were quite “safe” imho.  I’m not sure we were taking any real sting out of Boro, but trying to gain control.

One of the things I looked at early this season was to see if there was any trend between conceding shots in batches, because I’ve felt for a long time we don’t take the sting out of games.  The data was inconclusive, although you could imagine what was going through my head at 50 and 52 mins!!!

An interesting but from James Piercy in his post-match interview.

Spot on.

Was going to say. As seemingly tedious as the first twenty minutes or so was, perhaps it’s what we need to learn to do first, keep possession, get comfortable moving the ball around, wearing the opposition out. Get used to being in control. 
 After gaining confidence in that way, we then learn how to find those channels, when it’s the right time to move forward, to attack. 
 I’m happy to wait and see how the process works.

Similarly as Southport Red says I support the team, no matter who is managing, they’re the ones I go and see and give my support to come what may.

Manning has a good baseline, inherited from Pearson, a team that clearly wants to play and a great work ethic, so let’s hope he can not work on that final third.

 

 

 

Edited November 26, 2023 by JP Hampton

[downendcity]

14 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

 

and what a life! 

If ever you wanted to park your bike in a swimming pool.

[downendcity]

3 hours ago, EstoniaTallinnRed said:

Yes Tone and I'm having a glass of Harveys Bristol Cream sherry right now with my wife to celebrate the win.I know it's a bit late, but I wasn't that well yesterday, I'm a bit better today,

[Mr Popodopolous]

Extended EFL highlights here although it could be double counting of what Pete said.

[Davefevs]

25 minutes ago, mason said:

All above my pay grade as well and your attachment is well below my eye sight range so;

1. How much do we pay Ashton Gate plc/whoever no idea, and I doubt we ever will!  In the accounts there is info re inter-group txns but not broken down to the level we require to answer your Q.
2. How much of Concert profits/retailers profits do we BCFC get Bristol City FC get zilch, but Ashton Gate do, and as it is both BCFC and AG combined we use for FFP, then convert profits help offset football losses.
3. Did BCFC invite the rugger boys etc to play on our ground then if it is indeed our ground Ashton Gate invited them, not BCFC
4. If we are getting nothing from the grounds other users then we to must be just another user as well and paying for the privalige as per concerns, Bears pay Ashton Gate, so we benefit from FFP perspective 
5. All SL`s baby/dream with his son at our helm, it’s got us.......no-where. There is logic to trying to use the stadium more regularly that a few times a month.

[REDOXO]

12 hours ago, Southport Red said:

So, FWIW, here’s my ‘two-penneth’. 
 

i liked Nige, I wanted him to stay longer. 
 

The way the top brass dumped him was shameful. 
 

JL poured petrol in the fire talking about ‘top 6’ etc.  BUT

The club I support today is the same club I have supported for about 60 years now, I wish nothing but good things for them. 
 

We have a new coaching team and I desperately hope they will bring the team success. All I can do to help that goal is support them. It’s not much, but it is my gift to give, and I will (continue) to give it willingly. COYRs. 

You old softy! 

[W-S-M Seagull]

1 hour ago, mason said:

All above my pay grade as well and your attachment is well below my eye sight range so;

1. How much do we pay Ashton Gate plc/whoever
2. How much of Concert profits/retailers profits do we BCFC get
3. Did BCFC invite the rugger boys etc to play on our ground then if it is indeed our ground
4. If we are getting nothing from the grounds other users then we to must be just another user as well and paying for the privalige
5. All SL`s baby/dream with his son at our helm, its got us.......no-where.

I assume the 969k 'service charges and rent charged to other parties' is the rent charged to BCFC, BCWFC and the Bears. 

Its all very complicated. But for example if the companies were not separated, we'd have to pay costs such as maintance and staff etc. This way everything gets put into a big pot, the running costs of the stadium are deducted, income that each clubs generate shared with them and then anything left goes into our ffp calculations. 

When it comes to football I don't trust the lansdowns at all as they are useless with football matters. But considering how they've made all their money, in the finance world then I trust what they have set up is done in a way for us to get the best returns.

Edited November 26, 2023 by W-S-M Seagull

[1960maaan]

Few notes from Twitter on yesterday's game.

Just cherry picked the ones City appear.

[Sleepy1968]

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Extended EFL highlights here although it could be double counting of what Pete said.

I watched those earlier then subbed to The EFL channel. It has all Champ clubs extended highlights so it might be a more useful way to catch up games of interest, especially if you prefer your tvs YouTube app.

[bcfc01]

Just rewatched the first half, specifically to see the impact that Dickie had in the half (didn't check second half as it was a totally different game really).

It was as I thought when watching live, he had 7 carries or steps out of defence, 4 passes that broke the lines, and 7 receipts/passes within five yards either side of the half way line. Great first half from him.

McCrorie on co-commentary said he's having a great game and doing what the gaffer has asked of the CBs, to carry the ball out of defence. 

It makes a hell of a difference in getting the ball forward, reminds me of Webster who was allowed to do that when he was here, not so much for Brighton though.

 

[CiderJar]

Middlesbrough perspective of Sykes goal. I love to see our fans celebrating.