Liam Pre Cardiff

[footie]

Don’t post that often here but am a frequent reader, thought I’d share my thoughts as what I’d considered a balanced City fan.

For context my first season ticket was in the Danny Wilson days at 10 years old, I had become accustomed to different styles of football since then, yielding different results and a whole array of new and “improved” agendas.
 

To focus on our more recent history, we have had a turbulent few years where we experienced some highs and lows since being back in the championship, which under mr Pearson I had felt was trending in the right direction. I had awaited each pre match interview always excited with what Nige had to say. Arriving to each match with Nige at the helm I felt we were in safe hands and knew that all players were going to give us 100% each game and play to our strengths wherever we could.

As much as I think Liam is a likeable, tactical and potentially progressive head coach, I’m unsure this fit is what we’ve needed to achieve the next level. I feel all previous optimism has completely diminished for me, the whole team play with a different personality and for the first time in a fair few years I don’t feel at one with our club. I’m struggling to look forward to our games currently and feel something has to give with the hierarchy, I’m always going to love our club but hope it’s not just me who’s in a currently disillusioned state!

 

 

[Robbored]

17 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

Considering the comments that I've seen since the Wednesday match, not there or even listening to Radio Bristol, the two full backs should be Tanner and Roberts.

And I'll bet that he doesn't play two strikers.

And how we need a midfielder who can make penetrating passes. How about Naismith instead of James or Williams?

Anyway my pessimistic mind tells me that it will be another home defeat. Cheerful sod aren't I.

He never has started with two strikers. His approach seems to be for Kinght/Mehmeti play as a 8 or 10 to add goalscoring to the attacking line.

[W-S-M Seagull]

25 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

Considering the comments that I've seen since the Wednesday match, not there or even listening to Radio Bristol, the two full backs should be Tanner and Roberts.

And I'll bet that he doesn't play two strikers.

And how we need a midfielder who can make penetrating passes. How about Naismith instead of James or Williams?

Anyway my pessimistic mind tells me that it will be another home defeat. Cheerful sod aren't I.

It worried me that he said "whatever they decide to do or whatever the game looks like we have to be prepared, we can't go out with any expectations to dominate" "we have to go out with a clear head and make sure that whatever the game presents we find a way of controlling it in a manner that we want" 

I just find this astounding. He doesn't know how Cardiff are going to play so he's just going to wing it and it will be up to the players to find a way. No doubt if we lose the excuse will be "the players didn't find a way" 

I find it inexcusable that we are allowing Cardiff to come here and allowing them to impose their game on us and then we'll decide what to do based on that. Why the f are we not imposing our game on them? Probably cos we haven't got a game. 

He sounds like a man that has ran out if ideas. LJ did this. 

I think because we are in that realm of him not knowing what to do, we'll see him revert to his default which is a 3/5 at the back. 

[BrizzleRed]

46 minutes ago, footie said:

Don’t post that often here but am a frequent reader, thought I’d share my thoughts as what I’d considered a balanced City fan.

For context my first season ticket was in the Danny Wilson days at 10 years old, I had become accustomed to different styles of football since then, yielding different results and a whole array of new and “improved” agendas.
 

To focus on our more recent history, we have had a turbulent few years where we experienced some highs and lows since being back in the championship, which under mr Pearson I had felt was trending in the right direction. I had awaited each pre match interview always excited with what Nige had to say. Arriving to each match with Nige at the helm I felt we were in safe hands and knew that all players were going to give us 100% each game and play to our strengths wherever we could.

As much as I think Liam is a likeable, tactical and potentially progressive head coach, I’m unsure this fit is what we’ve needed to achieve the next level. I feel all previous optimism has completely diminished for me, the whole team play with a different personality and for the first time in a fair few years I don’t feel at one with our club. I’m struggling to look forward to our games currently and feel something has to give with the hierarchy, I’m always going to love our club but hope it’s not just me who’s in a currently disillusioned state!

 

 

Oh you’re far from alone in your disillusined state pal.  

I’ve been following the club a good bit longer than you, but you reflect my own feelings and mood exactly.

[Superjack]

2 hours ago, footie said:

Don’t post that often here but am a frequent reader, thought I’d share my thoughts as what I’d considered a balanced City fan.

For context my first season ticket was in the Danny Wilson days at 10 years old, I had become accustomed to different styles of football since then, yielding different results and a whole array of new and “improved” agendas.
 

To focus on our more recent history, we have had a turbulent few years where we experienced some highs and lows since being back in the championship, which under mr Pearson I had felt was trending in the right direction. I had awaited each pre match interview always excited with what Nige had to say. Arriving to each match with Nige at the helm I felt we were in safe hands and knew that all players were going to give us 100% each game and play to our strengths wherever we could.

As much as I think Liam is a likeable, tactical and potentially progressive head coach, I’m unsure this fit is what we’ve needed to achieve the next level. I feel all previous optimism has completely diminished for me, the whole team play with a different personality and for the first time in a fair few years I don’t feel at one with our club. I’m struggling to look forward to our games currently and feel something has to give with the hierarchy, I’m always going to love our club but hope it’s not just me who’s in a currently disillusioned state!

 

 

I think it's patently obvious that it isn't just you, my friend. 

It beggars belief to me that there are some that aren't.

[Robbored]

6 hours ago, Superjack said:

I think it's patently obvious that it isn't just you, my friend. 

It beggars belief to me that there are some that aren't.

Having witnessed numerous managerial changes over the decades yet another one doesn’t phase me but the sacking of Nige has left me more frustrated than the dismissal of any other previous manager.

That said, we have to accept what we cannot change………….

[Colemanballs]

13 hours ago, ExiledAjax said:

@Colemanballs - old Spreadsheet Boy has come to our rescue (thanks SB). Honestly I'm not going to pretend I accurately recall the precise degree to which each of these teams is or isn't similar to "Manning's preferred style" (hereafter "MPS"). But based on what I do remember I guess looking at that list you're going to conclude that the answer to your question is "very few".

My gut feel is "none", but I make no pretense of accurately recalling all their styles either. 

However, because I am of the opinion - and this may be tinpot - that actually targeting promotion is a flawed aim for our club I would actually tweak your question to something more like "How many non-parachute clubs have managed to finish between 3rd and 6th playing a style similar to that which Manning prefers." I think that's the aim when we sit down in July each season, as that then gives us a chance of promotion.

I think that is an entirely reasonable aspiration based on where we currently are as a club.

I suspect that if we saw that spreadsheet we might say that there is a bit of a chance.

I'm struggling to think of many apart from occasional iterations of Swansea. Then again, I am totally prepared to concede that the reason "Manning's preferred style" is under-represented in the list could be because fewer teams have attempted to play it. 

There's a couple of supplementary questions as well imo (do I have to keep saying "in my opinion" or can it just be taken as read across every post?):

1. How many have finished top 6/been promoted playing "the other guy's style" (hereafter "OGS") we have played this season? Again, gut feel, but I'd say more but, yes,  more teams have probably played in that style.
2. Is it feasible/likely that we can move to any other style - including the general styles you see represented in Fev's table - within the timeframe we have (6 months as I said in my chat with @Silvio Dante earlier in the thread. In my opinion, the current squad has been built to play OGS and any effort to play any other style will require some re-building of the squad to a greater or lesser extent. I agree that it would likely be impractical to move from OGS to MPS within the timeframe but a move from OGS to a variation of the same might be possible. That would, however, require a head coach who was prepared to embrace such a style.

The answers to those questions (which I hypothesise are 1) not many, and 2) no) should influence the considerations one has when deciding which style we should invest in - which is the overriding question this thread is currently exploring.

Thanks. Great post. Responses above in bold.

[mozo]

This game is loaded with baggage and Manning's massively under the microscope today. The local rivalry seems like an afterthought today, behind the obvious comparison with Nige's last game. 

Losing three in a row, with Cardiff being the third isn't acceptable and if we go behind in the game the atmosphere is gonna be nasty. It's a good test for Manning and he's going to have to deliver.

Edited March 2 by mozo

[frenchred]

Win today, season tickets may be out later. That's just the cynic in me!

[Engvall’s Splinter]

12 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Team for tomorrow:

O’Leary

McCrorie Vyner Dickie Pring

Williams James

Knight

Sykes Wells Conway

what I think LM will pick 

I really do think it’s mad that Tanner isn’t in the right back spot (appreciate this is what you think LM will start with). Tanner has been one of, if not our most consistent and steadiest performers over a good couple of months. I will be incredibly disappointed if we try to shoehorn Conway in on the left of a three. 

[Davefevs]

27 minutes ago, Engvall’s Splinter said:

I really do think it’s mad that Tanner isn’t in the right back spot (appreciate this is what you think LM will start with). Tanner has been one of, if not our most consistent and steadiest performers over a good couple of months. I will be incredibly disappointed if we try to shoehorn Conway in on the left of a three. 

Aye, it’s not what I would do.

[petehinton]

Really couldn’t, or shouldn’t, be a better game in order to see a response in. Shouldn’t need any geeing up. Over to you Liam & co

[GrahamC]

9 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Aye, it’s not what I would do.

Think the probability is today’s side is going to be very similar (possibly identical) to last week’s.

With James presumably out & Bell definitely so, there aren’t many options.

I think Mehmeti & TGH could consider themselves very fortunate to start after last week but unless we shoehorn Roberts & Pring in, or ask Sykes to play on the left & include McCrorie, there isn’t an alternative.

Basically as all season we are relying on the same 12 or so, especially now Bell’s season is over.

[Engvall’s Splinter]

34 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Think the probability is today’s side is going to be very similar (possibly identical) to last week’s.

With James presumably out & Bell definitely so, there aren’t many options.

I think Mehmeti & TGH could consider themselves very fortunate to start after last week but unless we shoehorn Roberts & Pring in, or ask Sykes to play on the left & include McCrorie, there isn’t an alternative.

Basically as all season we are relying on the same 12 or so, especially now Bell’s season is over.

Which when you consider our transfer window, it baffles me to think Tinnion stated it positive one. We needed bodies for the here and now. Blokes delusional. 
 

Anyway… fingers crossed for a reaction and some fight today. 

[Ivorguy]

7 minutes ago, Engvall’s Splinter said:

Which when you consider our transfer window, it baffles me to think Tinnion stated it positive one. We needed bodies for the here and now. Blokes delusional. 
 

Anyway… fingers crossed for a reaction and some fight today. 

Just remember Tinnion as our manager.

Says it all

[extonsred]

11 hours ago, footie said:

Don’t post that often here but am a frequent reader, thought I’d share my thoughts as what I’d considered a balanced City fan.

For context my first season ticket was in the Danny Wilson days at 10 years old, I had become accustomed to different styles of football since then, yielding different results and a whole array of new and “improved” agendas.
 

To focus on our more recent history, we have had a turbulent few years where we experienced some highs and lows since being back in the championship, which under mr Pearson I had felt was trending in the right direction. I had awaited each pre match interview always excited with what Nige had to say. Arriving to each match with Nige at the helm I felt we were in safe hands and knew that all players were going to give us 100% each game and play to our strengths wherever we could.

As much as I think Liam is a likeable, tactical and potentially progressive head coach, I’m unsure this fit is what we’ve needed to achieve the next level. I feel all previous optimism has completely diminished for me, the whole team play with a different personality and for the first time in a fair few years I don’t feel at one with our club. I’m struggling to look forward to our games currently and feel something has to give with the hierarchy, I’m always going to love our club but hope it’s not just me who’s in a currently disillusioned state!

 

 

Couldn't put it better myself....after 65 years seriously thinking I won't renew..talking with mate coming up in the car may just support Taunton...still some interesting place to travel to. So sad I feel like this and very seriously made worse by the Arms Fair

[GrahamC]

Just read Naismith not available again today, what a sicknote he’s turned into.

Still if he’s on Robins TV he’ll be able to say what the dozen players who have slogged through the season are doing wrong.

Massive contribution.

[Galley is our king]

12 hours ago, footie said:

Don’t post that often here but am a frequent reader, thought I’d share my thoughts as what I’d considered a balanced City fan.

For context my first season ticket was in the Danny Wilson days at 10 years old, I had become accustomed to different styles of football since then, yielding different results and a whole array of new and “improved” agendas.
 

To focus on our more recent history, we have had a turbulent few years where we experienced some highs and lows since being back in the championship, which under mr Pearson I had felt was trending in the right direction. I had awaited each pre match interview always excited with what Nige had to say. Arriving to each match with Nige at the helm I felt we were in safe hands and knew that all players were going to give us 100% each game and play to our strengths wherever we could.

As much as I think Liam is a likeable, tactical and potentially progressive head coach, I’m unsure this fit is what we’ve needed to achieve the next level. I feel all previous optimism has completely diminished for me, the whole team play with a different personality and for the first time in a fair few years I don’t feel at one with our club. I’m struggling to look forward to our games currently and feel something has to give with the hierarchy, I’m always going to love our club but hope it’s not just me who’s in a currently disillusioned state!

 

 

This all day long! Thank you!

62 years me, getting to the stadium and around the stadium is getting harder for me.

I would definitely have renewed if still under Nige but won't put myself through the pain to watch the crap being served up.

Renewal? It's a definite NO from me 

[Super]

11 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Just read Naismith not available again today, what a sicknote he’s turned into.

Still if he’s on Robins TV he’ll be able to say what the dozen players who have slogged through the season are doing wrong.

Massive contribution.

And same people will lap it up.

[MarcusX]

2 hours ago, Engvall’s Splinter said:

I really do think it’s mad that Tanner isn’t in the right back spot (appreciate this is what you think LM will start with). Tanner has been one of, if not our most consistent and steadiest performers over a good couple of months. I will be incredibly disappointed if we try to shoehorn Conway in on the left of a three. 

He must be injured?

[Davefevs]

13 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

He must be injured?

Knee - last week, one week

[MarcusX]

53 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Knee - last week, one week

So a month then? 

[Spike]

Watching the game at the moment this just further frustrates me:

 

On 29/02/2024 at 16:28, Silvio Dante said:

- Says he didn’t get it right tactically against QPR - Same set up as QPR, same gameplan, same problems. So he says he got it wrong and has set up the same way and has the same issues.

- Against Sheffield was more around the basics and didn’t see much wrong with the gameplan. Team got too emotional and weren’t controlled - No problem with emotions here, next to no emotion from anyone due to the football.

- “It makes me laugh because 12 days ago everything was great” - 12 days agao we beat a team who played tactically in our favour and so we got a fantastic result. It wasn't just how well we played but how poorly Southampton set up against us tactically.

- Wouldn’t change any of his processes or the way he works - As we can see in this game as we struggle to deal with the weaknesses in the gameplan and 60 minutes in we're still 0-0 and the atosphere in a derby game has been largely dead. This refusal to adapt based on what is going on it what will hold us, and ultimately Manning, back

- Thinks he has had to adapt because of the players but didn’t say much specific - Hasn't adapted at all from what we're seeing

- Believes prior to the last two games there was only one poor performance out of 20 - I'd agree we've played some good games and not got results but the more we play a single gameplan with no ability to adapt the more common it will become to see other teams see where we struggle and set up that way. I'd also add that we've not only had one poor performance out of that 20 he mentioned.

- Thinks some fatigue from the period just got through - Fair comment but we've rotated players, the change in personel isn't what seems to be the issue, it's the gameplan.

- Can give all the information to the players but they need to step up on pitch - This is the comment that boils my piss. These same players looked far more dangerous under Pearsons counter attack football. Were they perfect? No, far from it but they defiently had more bite and played better when played to their strengths. This also may as well be translated to "I have given them all the correct information and they're not doing it", it's such a bullsh*t cop out attitude and not the comment of a leader.

- Delighted with Dickie/Vyner generally and wouldn’t focus on last week - I'd agree that they can be fantastic in a back 4 line when they're comfortable with the tactics but Dickie has looked less comfortable the last few games and Vyner still doesn't operate well in a back 3. I agree that they don't deserve any blame though, they're performing to the standards they best can in our current set up.

 

As I've been typing this up we've gone behind and I'm not at all surprised. Tacically the same gameplan as the previous two games and Cardiff have set up their gameplan the same as QPR and Wednesday did. As a manager you can make a gameplan mistake once and lose and think "Ah we were unlucky, it just didn't work today", you can play it again and lose and think "It didn't work, same issues at last week" and then make a change to adapt or you can look back at the fact you've made the same mistake twice and set up the same way to make it a third time!

Forget the whole "give him a pre-season" crap, the issue is when someone can't accept that they're making the same mistake over and over again and are too self-assured to adapt and would rather blame the players than change his process or way he works and adapt his gameplan. I think we'll have a preseason that changes players but we'll come out the same way, same gameplan and when it fails we'll be left with a changed squad to play a gameplan that doesn't work and in need of a new man to come in and rebuild all over again, thus the City way it would seem.