Manning's under development, he needs more time

[Street red]

53 minutes ago, 2015 said:

I don't really want a coach or manager who is developing whilst being manager at Bristol City. We've done that before, it never works.

Certain clubs suit certain types of Coaches/Manager's. We don't suit this route.

Yep been saying it for years it's one of the hardest jobs outside the premier league experience is definitely key in managing city it just isn't a job for a apprentice. 

[italian dave]

9 hours ago, Davefevs said:

What are the comparative “challenges” you see that should’ve resulted in equal treatment?

For me, Nige inherited a mess and therefore needed a period of time to reset the club.

Liam took over a club in a “healthy state” - BT:

”best squad in a long time, well contracted, only 3 OOC in the summer”

In fairness he did say “when fit”.  Although we have seen a few more creep in over recent weeks, they’ve been spread across the positions, so he hasn’t had to play players out of position.

Depth has been an issue for both, but we are then back to budgets!

FWIW I don’t think Manning is shit, there are things I like about the way he’s done things.  But just too many areas I’m not convinced by.  I didn’t like everything Nige did either.

 

 

I think maybe you’ve answered your own question Dave!

I guess we’ll see whether the January window was about budgets or about who’s available come the summer.

One thing I think is often overlooked - because it’s out of sight and off the field - is the issue of relationships and trust. If the assumptions on here are correct, then that was NPs downfall at the end of the day. I have no idea what goes on behind the scenes, but you’d imagine/hope that relationship and trust between senior people is now better. And that has to be a good thing for the club.

I know you can debate whether the right people ended up leaving when those relationships broke down - but that’s a fairly pointless debate: it’s just about being realistic!

And I know you can make the case @Capman  makes above about speaking truth to power. And I don’t argue with that. But there are ways of doing that. And doing it in a way that ends up with a complete breakdown of the relationship isn’t the way.

I think you’ve made the point in the past about Gould having been the buffer between NP and JL and it’s possibly his departure that’s been more of a problem for the club than anything else.

Whether LM is just a ‘yes man’, or whether he has different skills in terms of speaking that truth - I’ve no idea, and I’m not sure anyone on here really does? 

[TV Tom]

9 minutes ago, RollsRoyce said:

Let's talk about Manning. Pearson has gone, and Manning being unsuited has nothing to do with Pearson. Two hugely different scenarios.

So, why did we appoint Manning? What are the attributes you see, with the squad that we have, that suit the way Manning wants to play? What youth players have been developed under Manning? What players have improved under Manning? Why, when Luton and possibly Ipswich get promoted to the Prem playing a certain way, with a budget closer to ours than say Leeds/Burnley/Leicester do you think the Manning 's approach to playing football is superior to that of McKenna and Edwards? How many players does Manning need to sign? Particularly when 2 players already signed, we tried to sign before he got here, a powerful forward we tried to sign before he got here, and the number 10 position, filled by Scott and not replaced, would have been filled if the money was available. So we already know the squad for next year, bar Twine (or his replacement) and a Semenyo replacement. Is that enough to give Manning the players he would want to play his way? Is that way of playing as. a non-parachute payment club going to bring success? As we would be the first club to do that, nothing like being first of course, but it does not follow any other path to success by any other club. 

In any case, when, who, has said we are now going on a different path? The club have never said it, fans have created this narrative to explain Mannings's failure. 

In my view, the club did not do their due diligence and hired a Russel Martin replacement, when what we needed was a McKenna or Edwards if we wanted to utilise better the players at our disposal. 

It will be faster and more economical to cut our losses with Manning now before we enter into a blind faith, or an attempt at face-saving , path that will be destructive and carries a high risk of relegation next season. 

Whilst 10 games left can change the mood and take Manning into next season with positive energy, something stupendous will need to happen to lift what would appear to be increasing doubts. An empty ground at full-time for a derby I had never seen before, and the atmosphere was the worst I can recall for a derby. There is no faith or belief. Those are worrying traits. Anger would be better, really, as it shows passion. But people have stopped caring. As it is a lost cause. 

So, please, try and explain what it is that you believe Manning has that I and maybe a few others are struggling to grasp. 

To be honest I really don't know what Manning has or doesn't have yet but like it or not he is our manager so i'm willing to give him a chance and a bit of time and get behind him, the good games have been good and the bad games have been bad so much the status quo of the last five years, since xmas i've really enjoyed a few games (the 4 cup games, Cov' Middlesbrough, Southampton and even Ipswich the other night, the bad games were atrocious as were many games under NP (i still break out into a cold sweat with our away performance at Reading last season)

[1960maaan]

1 minute ago, pillred said:

By cohesive I mean in the pattern of play I thought for long periods against Ipswich we played well as a team and looked to have a good gameplan, the same against Southampton that is the most frustrating thing such good bits followed by dross, and as for the arguing I have seen Man City players arguing with each other it happens a lot, maybe it shows the players are as disappointed as us and actually care.

Do you think it could be because he wants to play the same way whoever the opposition ?
Southampton and Ipswich were always going to come at us, play football and leave space. WHU & Forest similarly , and we did well against them too. Now we got battered 2nd half Vs M'boro and Ipswich's changes won them the game , that's in game changes. QPR , Sheff W and Cardiff sat, didn't allow us to counter and made us dictate the game , that's where the slow pass, pass pass football fell down. 

Same team , looks like the same tactics ,as this is the Plan and the Plan is right seems to be a Mantra . 
It didn't work Vs QPR , did the same against Sheff W.
It didn't work against Sheff W , did the same against Cardiff.
It didn't work against Cardiff , spot the theme ?

Any Manager will have his own ideas , that's fair. But what you can't afford to be is blinkered , you have to be able to adapt to what you inherit . He doesn't seem to be doing that. 
I think it is LJ rinsed and repeated . Loads on here said he hadn't done anything ( though ironically he was more experinced than Manning when he came here ) , and we needed more experience. The difference is LJ was keen to learn but couldn't focus on a plan. Manning seems set on his plan but can't adapt to situations. 

The Man City comparison is interesting . Coming from that Camp it feels like he wants to play that way. Sadly the difference in the two shows up this plan. Man C have some of the best players around and it makes it easier to dominate teams, we have some good honest pros who are good, but not the best in the Division. 

[MarcusX]

3 hours ago, TV Tom said:

Can't remember Pearson getting the same stick when he went 14 odd games without a home win

Pearson got loads of stick early in his first full season, and some wanted him gone before Xmas that year.

Doesnt matter what side of the “divide” you are on, its re-writing history to pretend Pearson had it easy or didn’t get any stick from fans at the same stage of his tenure as Manning is in.

Difference js, Nige should have been in credit to some extent after keeping us up.

 

 

 

 

[AshtonGreat]

54 minutes ago, Galley is our king said:

Context, context, CONTEXT!!!

I was responding to this statement: "If any manager delivered that sort of record then the mood is going to be exactly the same." 

 

 

[TV Tom]

5 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

Pearson got loads of stick early in his first full season, and some wanted him gone before Xmas that year.

Doesnt matter what side of the “divide” you are on, its re-writing history to pretend Pearson had it easy or didn’t get any stick from fans at the same stage of his tenure as Manning is in.

Difference js, Nige should have been in credit to some extent after keeping us up.

 

 

 

 

I'm happy to give Pearson plenty of credit and am fully appreciative of some of the things he did under difficult circumstances but after two and a half years i think the time was right to go, again this is only my opinion and i appreciate fully and i understand why some people have the opposite opinion

[Major Isewater]

It all boils down to Lansdown I’m afraid. He would like promotion to the Prem but either can’t or won’t bring in the quality of coaching staff and players that could enable us to get there. 
He has wasted millions on people who are not quite good enough and when he fell on those that were he bottled it and got rid. 
He is slowly suffocating the life out of the club and needs to change his policy or hand the reins over to someone who knows how to make a success out of a, don’t laugh, comatose giant. 
The crowds will eventually drop as apathy sets in. 
 

[milo1111]

The style doesn’t suit our squad as most people correctly recognise. 
 

our technical director is most to blame for this. He’s the one that needs to go first ffs. 

[RedRock]

As said many times previously, if you want to get promoted playing fast-paced, front-foot possession football you need a team made up of the division’s best and most skilled players at that style. Man City are successful as they can buy the best. 

We simply don’t have those players because they cost £££. Pearson adopted an all together different and pragmatic approach of trying to weld a successful team.  A ‘band of brothers’ approach. His problem - aside from the off the field issues - was that recruitment was pretty poor. As a consequence, we weren’t improving - at least not at a fast enough pace. 

With a great deal of luck you might be able to develop a Man City style of play on the cheap and develop your own youngsters, or buy in young players for elsewhere - the strategy we’re, seemingly, now employing but that will take time and possibly, a relegation. No guarantees of eventual success though and the likelihood is if we do develop any decent players they’ll be snaffled up by bigger Clubs - unless by some stroke of good luck they develop all at the same time so we can offer players a realistic vision of them as a collective going on to the Prem. 

While I can see some logic in ditching Pearson, I struggle massively with flip-flopping to an entirely different approach and reversion back to the failed LJ type model. 

Think we’re right in a hole now. Stick or twist? 

Gamble either way. Do I trust our recruitment ‘team’ to deliver quality, physically resilient players in the Summer that can deliver ‘Pep’ football?  No. Do I think that Manning can adapt his style of play, get the players on board and become a quality in-game manager in the last ten games? No. Do I think the Lansdown’s will press the button. No, at least not until October at the earliest. 

The next few months are going to be hard for us supporters. Relegation, I fear, is a distinct possibly.
 

[Steve Watts]

3 hours ago, Shauntaylor85 said:

Manning is another LJ. All about him and throws players under the bus rather than take responsibility. He needs to go, hes not good enough for what we require and as DaveFevs said is going against what he said were his fundamentals at the outset. 

He doesn't throw the team under the bus at all.  I know this because he tells us he's not doing this......usually just before throwing the team under the bus...but he's assured us he's not doing that......

5 minutes ago, TV Tom said:

I'm happy to give Pearson plenty of credit and am fully appreciative of some of the things he did under difficult circumstances but after two and a half years i think the time was right to go, again this is only my opinion and i appreciate fully and i understand why some people have the opposite opinion

Whether the change was needed or not it was absolutely not the case that the time was right for him to go.  It was either too early or too late, but to sack him when they did was wrong on all levels.

[Colemanballs]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

@Colemanballs I’m beginning to think that’s the only thing they have left in their argument, to keep dragging it back to Pearson.  I rarely see anything detailing the pros of Manning.  In fact, I reckon I give more pros of Manning than they do!

And they've succeeded in derailing yet another thread. 

[Ian M]

1 hour ago, TV Tom said:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, i've had enough of this nonsense, i'm getting ready for 10:00 and the Plymouth away tickets, Manning's red 'n white army 

Awesome init. Don’t know why there’s so many dissenting voices.

 

[2015]

49 minutes ago, Street red said:

Yep been saying it for years it's one of the hardest jobs outside the premier league experience is definitely key in managing city it just isn't a job for a apprentice. 

Expectation is high
Ambition is high (for the fans)
Reality is we aren't very good.
Big City mentality.

It needs experienced Manager's, or one with a big personality who can handle it.

[Meh]

When Nigel was here and things were bad he was honest with fans and detract blame from his players, he tried tinkering with the system slightly, personnel slightly and maybe switched the speed of play and where the line was to press.

Liam is sticking to the same tactics, same formation generally, putting blame on the players already under pressure and changing the team regularly and it does not seem to be representative of who fans are seeing having a bad patch.

It reminds me so much of LJ and what became known as his tombola team selection. Manning does not seem to know his strongest team and is not changing our style to combat the system of the opposition.

Experience over inexperience I guess.

[SydneyCity]

4 hours ago, redsquirrel said:

get someone like warnock or mccarthy in for 6 months

This is exactly what Aberdeen have done with Warnock and it’s been an absolute disaster for them. They have a decent squad that should be aiming for third, but are possibly heading to a relegation battle.

A big reason for this, that’s been given by those ITK is that the players aren’t really listening to a word he says, as they know he’s not going to be there long-term.

[Wrongagain]

59 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

Pearson got loads of stick early in his first full season, and some wanted him gone before Xmas that year.

Doesnt matter what side of the “divide” you are on, its re-writing history to pretend Pearson had it easy or didn’t get any stick from fans at the same stage of his tenure as Manning is in.

Difference js, Nige should have been in credit to some extent after keeping us up.

 

 

 

 

Cant be any worse than Cardiff away and a youth right back waiting for instructions from midfield to defend!

more like non league football

its not just the manager it’s the shit show running of our club!

[Son of Fred]

2 hours ago, pillred said:

I have said on another post-NP did not get particularly good results, now how much of that was down to reducing the wage bill getting rid of the dead wood etc I don't know. I have come in for some stick for even daring to point that out, he was working under some constraints but the way he is mourned on here anyone would think we had been successful and entertaining under his management, well I must have missed that part, as you have pointed out Manning seems to be on a hiding to nothing what frustrates me most is good results and performances followed by disappointment. I personally can see some improvement overall the team look more cohesive but again we have the curse of Bristol City with injuries which have impacted our progress, all this harking back to the "good old days" under Pearson is getting us nowhere. 

If Swansea beat us on Sunday we are looking down the barrel.....Manning's responsibility.

 

[George Rs]

I think Manning could’ve worked with us if he was hired at the correct time in the correct way. I quite like him tbh but his tenure was tainted from the start with the cloud he arrived under. 

If Lansdown/Tinnion were no longer willing to fund Pearson to improve the team they should’ve gone their seperate ways then and there. Would’ve given Manning a full pre-season and potentially some of his own signings. 

Hiring him for his first championship stint mid season, after controversially sacking his predecessor and claiming our squad was “top 6” material was absolute lunacy imo. Put a significant and unnecessary amount of pressure on LMs shoulders, the blame will always lie on their shoulders for me. 

I think claiming Manning has shown “nothing“ so far is just false and incredibly unfair. Although they have been surrounded by poor results the performance against southampton was the most complete city performance i’ve seen in years. And whilst the cup is of secondary importance to the league his admirable performance their shouldn’t be discounted. 

Also can we please stop bringing up Pearson in every debate about LM? He’s gone and he won’t come back, comparing the two is completely pointless at this stage and serves no purpose but to deviate from the subject and divide people into petty arguments and “point-scoring”.

For now i’m Manning in but that view is precarious at best. 

Edited March 7 by George Rs

[Red-Robbo]

I think the vast majority of us agree that sacking Pearson was unnecessary and short-sighted and yet another reason why the Lansdown family need to be away from this club as soon as possible. 

However, we can't turn the clock back, that's old history and in the short-term I'm interested in how we can make the team more competitive now.

Sacking Manning with 10 games to go would be a big roll of the dice. Unless the new guy hits the ground running it'll take a while for him to know the players and work out where they best perform. LJ pulled off a rescue package when he came in, SOD did the opposite. Both had more than 10 games however.

For me, rather than take that particular gamble now, removing the malign influence of our unofficial DOF might be a quick fix to allow this coach more flexibility in how he sets up. The entire logic of putting a bloke in as DOF whose management career amounts to failing at one club is crazy. "Brian is in overall charge of all football matters" was the most chilling thing I've read on the OS. You might as well ring up Liz Truss to get her advice on balancing your household budget. 

We might have a shot at bringing in a genuine wise advisor before the season end or perhaps it's just time for the club to realise that the Tinnion as DOF experiment isn't working and just let Manning stand or fall on his own merits. 

[W-S-M Seagull]

1 hour ago, TV Tom said:

To be honest I really don't know what Manning has or doesn't have yet but like it or not he is our manager so i'm willing to give him a chance and a bit of time and get behind him, the good games have been good and the bad games have been bad so much the status quo of the last five years, since xmas i've really enjoyed a few games (the 4 cup games, Cov' Middlesbrough, Southampton and even Ipswich the other night, the bad games were atrocious as were many games under NP (i still break out into a cold sweat with our away performance at Reading last season)

I'm delighted to hear that you're really enjoying 23 points from 21 games. 

I hope you enjoy our relegation next season because that's what's gonna happen. 

I think you're the only person on this planet thats enjoyed our 3 wins from 13 since Xmas. 

[W-S-M Seagull]

6 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

Sacking Manning with 10 games to go would be a big roll of the dice. Unless the new guy hits the ground running it'll take a while for him to know the players and work out where they best perform. LJ pulled off a rescue package when he came in, SOD did the opposite. Both had more than 10 games however.

My thoughts are it's a big roll of the dice to keep him for the 10 games. Our immediate future is hanging on this. 

This is an entirely different scenario to other relegation battles we've been in because in those battles we've had a squad that was worthy of being in those battles. 

This squad should be no where near having a relegation battle so that's why in my opinion a change would make the difference because someone else would be able to get this squad to perform to its ability. 

 

Edited March 7 by W-S-M Seagull

[George Rs]

1 minute ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

My thoughts are it's a big roll of the dice to keep him for the 10 games. Our immediate future is hanging on this. 

 

So what your saying is, our current appointment is so poor you don’t have faith in him to pick up 4 or so points from our last 10 which would probably see us safe. 

 

And your solution is to fire him and let the same people who hired the man you have so little faith in hire someone new who will have to waste time getting to know his best players, style he wants to play to come into a relatively toxic environment with only 10 games left? 

[Capman]

2 hours ago, italian dave said:

And I know you can make the case @Capman  makes above about speaking truth to power. And I don’t argue with that. But there are ways of doing that. And doing it in a way that ends up with a complete breakdown of the relationship isn’t the way.

I agree with that summary by the way. NP should certainly be reflecting on his own responsibilities to build relationships, but ultimately that is not the supporters problem. The supporters, I suspect, want an experienced manager who can build a successful team. They do not need over delicate egos (in the board room or the dug out) thinking they are more important than getting points on the board and getting the team promoted. 

[cheese]

As I see it, Nige created a team of greyhounds (runners) whereas Manning (also read Tinnion) wants a team of intelligent footballers.  Not enough of our current squad fit into that category.  Now you can argue until you're blue in the face that Manning should adapt to the squad he has and play to their strengths but that's not what he was brought in to do.  It will be painful until he has the players he wants.  The hierarchy decided that we were safe from relegation this season and so November was the best time to press the button.  Whether they were right on timing we shall see.  Whether they were right on the appointment depends on us staying up and then seeing what happens next season.

[Galley is our king]

47 minutes ago, Son of Fred said:

If Swansea beat us on Sunday we are looking down the barrel.....Manning's responsibility.

 

Plus the bozo's that put him there..

[IAmNick]

1 minute ago, cheese said:

Now you can argue until you're blue in the face that Manning should adapt to the squad he has and play to their strengths but that's not what he was brought in to do. 

Then why were the club so clear with their expectations for the season, which was progress/success?

They didn't say - transition and do our best until the summer when we can replace and rebuild the squad for a year or twos time.

So what was Manning brought in to do?

[CyderInACan]

5 hours ago, Shauntaylor85 said:

Manning is another LJ. All about him and throws players under the bus rather than take responsibility.

This really boils my piss. Any Manager/Head Coach worth their salt knows this is totally counter-productive. You keep this shit to the dressing room (as a collective) or face to face for individuals. 

It's a sure fire trait of inexperience & insecurity along with rank bad management. Manning needs to seriously up his game off the pitch as well as on it. 

[IAmNick]

48 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

If they were to replace Manning, there wouldn’t need to be a(nother) rebuild if they got an adaptable manager in.

Without going through all the quotes, they appointed Manning because they thought all modern, progressive, on the grass coaches play high press, forward thinking football.  Possession and winning (MK season 1, Oxford early this season) do not equal high press, forward thinking football.  It’s incredible incompetence they thought that. 

I agree - and as you said, it's incompetence. It also doesn't give us much of a clue what might come next, which is I guess what I was getting at, when their appointment is so at odds with their communication.

4 hours ago, Silvio Dante said:

Tbh mate so wouldn’t put too much stock in that. Over the time SL has been here the one main constant has been we look at what someone else is doing and chase that. Luton doing it without funds? We must be able to etc etc

One of, IMO, the reasons we’ve got Manning is as a reaction to a) Whats in vogue (younger coaches with less playing experience) and more specifically, b) What’s happening at Ipswich - with the Lansdowns seeing what their old set up is doing and thinking that they were right after all, so let’s emulate

Mannings playing style is ingrained in the club until the next thing comes along that someone gets success with that SL thinks we can emulate. We get rid of Liam and it’s totally not a factor.

Which again is why you bin him now before he adds loads of players, we get a bloated and misshapen squad and have to sort it out.

I guess it maybe comes down to whether you trust that the words they've said recently were the truth, and that'll be our path now - or whether you look at our recent(ish) history and think they're likely to continue in that way. I think they're at odds with each other, so both can't be true.

I'd probably be tempted to agree with what I think you're saying, that their actions speak louder than their words and regardless of what they say, we'll likely continue down the tortuous and confused path we've been on for a long time now.

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, RollsRoyce said:

Let's talk about Manning. Pearson has gone, and Manning being unsuited has nothing to do with Pearson. Two hugely different scenarios.

So, why did we appoint Manning? What are the attributes you see, with the squad that we have, that suit the way Manning wants to play? What youth players have been developed under Manning? What players have improved under Manning? Why, when Luton and possibly Ipswich get promoted to the Prem playing a certain way, with a budget closer to ours than say Leeds/Burnley/Leicester do you think the Manning 's approach to playing football is superior to that of McKenna and Edwards? How many players does Manning need to sign? Particularly when 2 players already signed, we tried to sign before he got here, a powerful forward we tried to sign before he got here, and the number 10 position, filled by Scott and not replaced, would have been filled if the money was available. So we already know the squad for next year, bar Twine (or his replacement) and a Semenyo replacement. Is that enough to give Manning the players he would want to play his way? Is that way of playing as. a non-parachute payment club going to bring success? As we would be the first club to do that, nothing like being first of course, but it does not follow any other path to success by any other club. 

In any case, when, who, has said we are now going on a different path? The club have never said it, fans have created this narrative to explain Mannings's failure. 

In my view, the club did not do their due diligence and hired a Russel Martin replacement, when what we needed was a McKenna or Edwards if we wanted to utilise better the players at our disposal. 

It will be faster and more economical to cut our losses with Manning now before we enter into a blind faith, or an attempt at face-saving , path that will be destructive and carries a high risk of relegation next season. 

Whilst 10 games left can change the mood and take Manning into next season with positive energy, something stupendous will need to happen to lift what would appear to be increasing doubts. An empty ground at full-time for a derby I had never seen before, and the atmosphere was the worst I can recall for a derby. There is no faith or belief. Those are worrying traits. Anger would be better, really, as it shows passion. But people have stopped caring. As it is a lost cause. 

So, please, try and explain what it is that you believe Manning has that I and maybe a few others are struggling to grasp. 

Great post.

Just for everyone else, RR is referring to Rob Edwards not Joe Edwards!!!

And on that basis I wonder what reasons City’s hierarchy had Rob Edwards and Liam Manning on the same list, because their footballing style are very different.  And I’m not just talking Edwards at Luton, but Edwards at FGR too.  I suspect it was an “age filter” or maybe based on “looks”?

2 hours ago, italian dave said:

One thing I think is often overlooked - because it’s out of sight and off the field - is the issue of relationships and trust. If the assumptions on here are correct, then that was NPs downfall at the end of the day. I have no idea what goes on behind the scenes, but you’d imagine/hope that relationship and trust between senior people is now better. And that has to be a good thing for the club.

I know you can debate whether the right people ended up leaving when those relationships broke down - but that’s a fairly pointless debate: it’s just about being realistic!

Yes, don’t disagree that the relationship broke down. The Q is why!!!

2 hours ago, 1960maaan said:

Do you think it could be because he wants to play the same way whoever the opposition ?

I actually think it’s almost the opposite.  He wants to match the opposition where possible.  There is definitely a link between when we go back-3 or back-4 and how the opposition play.  He’s “brave” enough to block 424 against an opposing back-4, but then blocks with a 3 (3421) against a back-3, but not brave to get his wingbacks up against their wingbacks and make it a 5 (325) block.

There could be some arrogance that if he matches up, his superior gameplan will deliver.

11 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

For me, rather than take that particular gamble now, removing the malign influence of our unofficial DOF might be a quick fix to allow this coach more flexibility in how he sets up. The entire logic of putting a bloke in as DOF whose management career amounts to failing at one club is crazy. "Brian is in overall charge of all football matters" was the most chilling thing I've read on the OS. You might as well ring up Liz Truss to get her advice on balancing your household budget. 

We might have a shot at bringing in a genuine wise advisor before the season end or perhaps it's just time for the club to realise that the Tinnion as DOF experiment isn't working and just let Manning stand or fall on his own merits. 

I honestly don’t think Tinnion is having input on the team or team set-up.

But to your second para, yes I agree, he needs expert help.  We don’t currently have that in-house.