Tinnion is being treated far too harshly

[Crimson Crayola]

4 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I think you’ll find they do!  There are constantly threads mentioning the dilution of the CEO role.

These have passed me by. And I do worry about how the lack of CEO will affect the club long term (not that it appears PA set the bar particularly high).

Where it appears Tins really dropped the ball was being completely absent between the departures of PA and Nige. Nige was the only one speaking to the press regularly. Now he is atleast on the comms but its a case of too little too late. Not helped by Manning's less than brilliant performance.

 

 

 

[Monkeh]

4 hours ago, Numero Uno said:

Missed a few things. I hope Liam turns it round but facts are facts and, actually, judging him on the facts because they are so poor at present SHOULD make it easier to confirm that he has made some positive changes in due course if and when he manages to do that.

My main concern this season is that he reverses the last point and gets a minimum of 6 points from Huddersfield, Blackburn and Rotherham. I'm sure that will trigger a particular poster but never mind.

I dont like manning as I don't think he's the right fit for the club, but I'd love him to turn it round because it means my club is performing,

That dire performance against Swansea, it could be a turning point, I doubt it but it could 

[GrahamC]

3 hours ago, George Rs said:

You’d think after the year we’ve had, most liked manager in almost a decade sacked, underperforming replacement, academy in youth cup SF, good first team cup run, 10 points behind season objective (according to JL) and 30m in the bank with barely any spent he’d of made some sort of communication. 

 

It really is laughable at this point. 

Only if you don’t realise he checked out a little while ago.

This is his son’s show now, SL’s sole real interest is in the Sporting Quarter & the opportunity for a return on that investment.

[DaveInSA]

7 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Firstly, I’m not in the camp of Tins being the bad-guy for everything.

My beef is predominantly that Manning isn’t the right man - both ability and football style - imho.  And Tins would’ve played a large part in selecting him, and imho has mis-profiled him against the type of football him and JL said they wanted.

So, it’s not an easy one to answer in your kinda one-dimensional question.  Nor is that a criticism of the question, but that it’s just more nuanced than that.

My evaluation of Tins as the recommender is ultimately judged on how Manning does…against where I think the squad should be.

This season, I expected him to carry on the progress being made, so was looking for a finish circa 10th, staying in the play off hunt deep into the season.  Failing that, I expected any regression to be the result of implementing his football style, ie, I’d cut him some slack.

So far, he’s underperformed on playoff hunt and football style is a mess imho.  For me, I don’t see him changing nor us progressing with how he’s doing things, hence why I’m Manning out.  That is my prerogative, you happen to think people are judging too early.  I think the longer you leave it, the worse it will get.

But…

I accept things can change, three simple scenarios, e.g.

• he does carry on what he’s doing in his way, and we make progress, proving that “time was indeed the healer”, and I’ll hold my hands up
• we throw money at him in the summer to cover his inadequacies - to me that shouldn’t mean credit for anyone, if anything it proves they got it wrong - don’t forget there was no budget in August when Alex was sold, and the owner told us fans via PA on SOTC that he was no longer willing to stump up the sums he had been each year
• he does improve us, but by doing it different / playing differently - then I could turn round and say “told you so”, but I’ll at least give some credit to Manning for at least showing adaptability.  I’m not sure Tins gets any credit in this scenario.

 

I’m not as smart as you @Davefevs when it comes to the football.

Norwich at home. Strangely in that game I felt we had the better of it. Although watching in S82 isn’t ideal, in the left attacking channel it was clear we had no clue what we were doing, although this was where Norwich were weakest. It was, yet again laughable, Bell, Knight and Pring were all getting in each others way. Either all trying to overlap. Or all going inside. It was nonsense football.

My other in person experience was Cardiff at home, which was nothing short of shambolic. First half, we were compact defensively (good) offered nothing in the final third (bad). In the second half, it was much the same until Cardiff scored, it then felt like we threw on all the attackers we had, and it became so incoherent and disjointed it was laughable. E.g. Mebude was left isolated on the left wing partly because nobody would pass him the ball.

In between these two games our head coach has had plenty time on the grass with the lads. Hopefully to teach them his methods, behaviours and attacking patterns. I’ve seen nothing on the pitch to suggest we’re getting better.

I’d LOVE him to turn it around. Really I would. But I don’t think he’s able to.

5 hours ago, spudski said:

Of course he wants the best for our club...he's hardly going to want the opposite. 

Wanting the best for our Club doesn't mean he's the right man for the role of Technical Director.

We have an owner, JL and Gavin Marshall. None of em know **** all about managing or coaching a football team...so they will have to take all their info from BT. 

What experience does BT have at making the right decisions for the first team? Academy and loan progressions yes...but not the first team. He failed massively as a manager...and simply doesn't warrant his position to basically make and inform ( in his opinion ) what is best for our first team. He is the only one in that position to do so. 

Add that he is hopeless when speaking to the media and public, as is JL...then it's a poor appointment. 

Gavin Marshall as CFO is spread thinner by the year. He works on Bristol Sport, HPC, Woman's Rugby, Bristol Bears, both Academy's, Bristol City Holdings, Aston Gate Ltd and the Flyers...it's a crazy situation. 

The owner, JL, BT and the poor CFO.

It really is a crazy situation...backed up with a coach learning on the job and a bunch of analysts out of Uni.

It’s totally batshit @spudski. I’ve got a mate who is the CFO for a few companies. Not as many as Marshall - and he’s super intelligent and methodical, it simply doesn’t make sense to have one person managing all that at Bristol Sport. While at the same time not having any football people in the boardroom at all.

If we continue like this for any period of time, >18 months, we will be relegated. I’ve no doubt about it. And this omnishambles started in September with the departure of Alexander. I will be astounded if we’re not in a relegation battle in a years time. We might avoid it because there could be 3 absolutely dreadful teams below us that keep us out the mire.

And as for Tinnion. I don’t have real problem with him as a person. But, he’s also spread way too thin across all his areas of responsibility. Noting, that at the same time you can’t give away confidential information in a radio interview - for me that’s an instant sackable offence. It’s surely gross misconduct. Or have I totally misread the room there?

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Crimson Crayola said:

These have passed me by. And I do worry about how the lack of CEO will affect the club long term (not that it appears PA set the bar particularly high).

Where it appears Tins really dropped the ball was being completely absent between the departures of PA and Nige. Nige was the only one speaking to the press regularly. Now he is atleast on the comms but its a case of too little too late. Not helped by Manning's less than brilliant performance.

 

 

 

Difficult for PA to perform when the owner’s son does what he likes!

[mozo]

12 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Firstly, I’m not in the camp of Tins being the bad-guy for everything.

My beef is predominantly that Manning isn’t the right man - both ability and football style - imho.  And Tins would’ve played a large part in selecting him, and imho has mis-profiled him against the type of football him and JL said they wanted.

So, it’s not an easy one to answer in your kinda one-dimensional question.  Nor is that a criticism of the question, but that it’s just more nuanced than that.

My evaluation of Tins as the recommender is ultimately judged on how Manning does…against where I think the squad should be.

This season, I expected him to carry on the progress being made, so was looking for a finish circa 10th, staying in the play off hunt deep into the season.  Failing that, I expected any regression to be the result of implementing his football style, ie, I’d cut him some slack.

So far, he’s underperformed on playoff hunt and football style is a mess imho.  For me, I don’t see him changing nor us progressing with how he’s doing things, hence why I’m Manning out.  That is my prerogative, you happen to think people are judging too early.  I think the longer you leave it, the worse it will get.

But…

I accept things can change, three simple scenarios, e.g.

• he does carry on what he’s doing in his way, and we make progress, proving that “time was indeed the healer”, and I’ll hold my hands up
• we throw money at him in the summer to cover his inadequacies - to me that shouldn’t mean credit for anyone, if anything it proves they got it wrong - don’t forget there was no budget in August when Alex was sold, and the owner told us fans via PA on SOTC that he was no longer willing to stump up the sums he had been each year
• he does improve us, but by doing it different / playing differently - then I could turn round and say “told you so”, but I’ll at least give some credit to Manning for at least showing adaptability.  I’m not sure Tins gets any credit in this scenario.

Hope that makes sense?

The other thing is that Tins has now given us next season’s target, and that is playoffs.  He’s basically said he expects us to be right in the mix next season.

I will of course wait and see what happens between now and mid-July when the season kicks off, before deciding whether that’s a realistic aim or not.  Just like I did on Manning’s appointment when they made their claims!

The other area I’ll be judging Tins on is recruitment.  That is nuanced again.  I thought the winter window was 6/10.

I guess, I could turn the question back on you now.  What your basis for continuing to give Tins credit, and what would it take to make you think the opposite?

I think it would’ve more appropriate to have an image of Tins in his playing days.  To put him “up-top” alongside Manning (no issue with Manning) and opposite Dicks with an image of his current role is bordering on antagonistic.  They didn’t use an image of Scotty Murray pegging the kit out did they!

Great breakdown of your view Fevs 

I think if he was successful in the the throwing money scenario he would still get credit.

Realistically, there's only so much money to spend, and in my view the only way a top manager like Nige was going to have any chance of success is by being given money to spend.

In fact, not being given a transfer kitty is what did for Nige, because his squad was lacking depth of quality and experience and was therefore unable to sustain an injury crisis, and a losing streak followed (and the board saw their sinister opportunity).

I agree though that if Manning reverts to us being a 4-3-3 counter attacking team, and it brings success, you can definitely say I told you so and Manning can thank Nige for the blueprint. I can't imagine he'll do it though (nor do I think it will bring success, unless we do strengthen in those forward areas).

With you on judging Tins too. 

 

 

[Davefevs]

18 minutes ago, mozo said:

Great breakdown of your view Fevs 

I think if he was successful in the the throwing money scenario he would still get credit.

Realistically, there's only so much money to spend, and in my view the only way a top manager like Nige was going to have any chance of success is by being given money to spend.

In fact, not being given a transfer kitty is what did for Nige, because his squad was lacking depth of quality and experience and was therefore unable to sustain an injury crisis, and a losing streak followed (and the board saw their sinister opportunity).

I agree though that if Manning reverts to us being a 4-3-3 counter attacking team, and it brings success, you can definitely say I told you so and Manning can thank Nige for the blueprint. I can't imagine he'll do it though (nor do I think it will bring success, unless we do strengthen in those forward areas).

With you on judging Tins too. 

 

 

Just on the transfer kitty I have no issue with a summer akin to last summer, but remember they already spent some early on Bird (imho).

Haven't heard any rumours on fee for Bird, so I’m plumping for a nice round £1.000m.

What I’m alluding to is suddenly going out and buying 3-4 players for £10.000m with wages to boot, without trading.

Agree on the other stuff.

[SecretSam]

On 13/03/2024 at 12:52, reddogkev said:

I don't care if I get shot down, that's fine, but I am sick of the negativity towards Tinnion.

I love the guy.  Pure and simple, he's a city legend

 

On what grounds is he a "City legend"? One goal at Anfield? His right foot???

[SecretSam]

On 13/03/2024 at 12:52, reddogkev said:

It's not his fault if he's not right for the job, it's up the people above him if they feel he should be replaced.

By that logic, an incompetent surgeon who keeps killing his or her patients should be retained, but it isn't their fault they're useless...

[Mike Hunt-Hertz]

1 minute ago, SecretSam said:

On what grounds is he a "City legend"? One goal at Anfield? His right foot???

Tearing Division 3 a new arsehole.

[SecretSam]

Just now, Mike Hunt-Hertz said:

Tearing Division 3 a new arsehole.

Whoopee. 

[exAtyeoMax]

10 hours ago, mozo said:

Great breakdown of your view Fevs 

I think if he was successful in the the throwing money scenario he would still get credit.

Realistically, there's only so much money to spend, and in my view the only way a top manager like Nige was going to have any chance of success is by being given money to spend.

In fact, not being given a transfer kitty is what did for Nige, because his squad was lacking depth of quality and experience and was therefore unable to sustain an injury crisis, and a losing streak followed (and the board saw their sinister opportunity).

I agree though that if Manning reverts to us being a 4-3-3 counter attacking team, and it brings success, you can definitely say I told you so and Manning can thank Nige for the blueprint. I can't imagine he'll do it though (nor do I think it will bring success, unless we do strengthen in those forward areas).

With you on judging Tins too. 

 

 

Is it different for a coach like LM then? Can they get by on pennies? I don’t really understand. Surely a better manager can succeed with less?

[Mike Hunt-Hertz]

Just now, exAtyeoMax said:

Is it different for a coach like LM then? Can they get by on pennies? I don’t really understand. Surely a better manager can succeed with less?

He'll bore the opposition into a catatonic state, thus making them susceptible to to the progressive Manningball.

You know it makes sense.

[Mr Hankey]

The bloke is a complete & utter goon, couldn't care less about him being a decent league 1 player.

Also, on the basis of him being a "legend" (mostly because of that goal) & how many appearances he made........surely Korey Smith had much more of an impact on the club in a much shorter spell? Scored a match winning goal against Man United that got us to a semi-final & was part of a double-winning City side, when are we welcoming him back with a big banner across section 82?

Edited March 15 by Mr Hankey

[Numero Uno]

4 hours ago, SecretSam said:

By that logic, an incompetent surgeon who keeps killing his or her patients should be retained, but it isn't their fault they're useless...

Yeah, fair point, but when they were a porter 30 years ago they never missed a ward delivery. You haven’t taken that into account. Hospital Legend ain’t it?

[Galley is our king]

9 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Yeah, fair point, but when they were a porter 30 years ago they never missed a ward delivery. You haven’t taken that into account. Hospital Legend ain’t it?

Hospital legend it would be if you stabbed the head porter in the back 

 

Just saying...

[Monkeh]

6 hours ago, SecretSam said:

On what grounds is he a "City legend"? One goal at Anfield? His right foot???

I use to consider him a legend until he stabbed Wilson in the back, then I saw him for what he is,

[Natchfever]

7 hours ago, Mike Hunt-Hertz said:

Tearing Division 3 a new arsehole.

Thats about it mate.

Legend ffs.

[Sir Geoff]

23 hours ago, DaveInSA said:

I’m not as smart as you @Davefevs when it comes to the football.

Norwich at home. Strangely in that game I felt we had the better of it. Although watching in S82 isn’t ideal, in the left attacking channel it was clear we had no clue what we were doing, although this was where Norwich were weakest. It was, yet again laughable, Bell, Knight and Pring were all getting in each others way. Either all trying to overlap. Or all going inside. It was nonsense football.

My other in person experience was Cardiff at home, which was nothing short of shambolic. First half, we were compact defensively (good) offered nothing in the final third (bad). In the second half, it was much the same until Cardiff scored, it then felt like we threw on all the attackers we had, and it became so incoherent and disjointed it was laughable. E.g. Mebude was left isolated on the left wing partly because nobody would pass him the ball.

In between these two games our head coach has had plenty time on the grass with the lads. Hopefully to teach them his methods, behaviours and attacking patterns. I’ve seen nothing on the pitch to suggest we’re getting better.

I’d LOVE him to turn it around. Really I would. But I don’t think he’s able to.

It’s totally batshit @spudski. I’ve got a mate who is the CFO for a few companies. Not as many as Marshall - and he’s super intelligent and methodical, it simply doesn’t make sense to have one person managing all that at Bristol Sport. While at the same time not having any football people in the boardroom at all.

If we continue like this for any period of time, >18 months, we will be relegated. I’ve no doubt about it. And this omnishambles started in September with the departure of Alexander. I will be astounded if we’re not in a relegation battle in a years time. We might avoid it because there could be 3 absolutely dreadful teams below us that keep us out the mire.

And as for Tinnion. I don’t have real problem with him as a person. But, he’s also spread way too thin across all his areas of responsibility. Noting, that at the same time you can’t give away confidential information in a radio interview - for me that’s an instant sackable offence. It’s surely gross misconduct. Or have I totally misread the room there?

I'm not sure there will be. Portsmouth, Bolton, Derby will all be pretty strong (well maybe not Bolton). Stoke. QPR, Birmingham you would think will all be stronger next season.

I'm sure Mr Pops will put me right but I don't see any 'basket case' clubs next season or any with a threat of points deductions.

Make no mistake under Manning, playing this type of negative, keep the ball nonsense will see us in the mix at the wrong end of the table imo.

[Mr Popodopolous]

53 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

I'm not sure there will be. Portsmouth, Bolton, Derby will all be pretty strong (well maybe not Bolton). Stoke. QPR, Birmingham you would think will all be stronger next season.

I'm sure Mr Pops will put me right but I don't see any 'basket case' clubs next season or any with a threat of points deductions.

Make no mistake under Manning, playing this type of negative, keep the ball nonsense will see us in the mix at the wrong end of the table imo.

Can't really see any basket case clubs on the horizon no. However.

Is hard to say if Birmingham should be stronger, I'm looking at their FFP and wondering. They made a £4.5m loss in the 6 months to December 31st 2023 and that was despite and including the Bellingham cash.

Stoke have perhaps used a fair chunk of headroom.

There is a lot of uncertainty, basket case no but I can see cutbacks or retrenchment needed at some clubs. The League ould be in a 70% of wages and amortisation to Turnover position, then again it might not be.

Hull it is suggested may have to retrench if not promoted, see also Norwich, Watford, West Brom to varying levels.

I can't see us flourishing under the current set up next season in any case no.

[Sir Geoff]

36 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Can't really see any basket case clubs on the horizon no. However.

Is hard to say if Birmingham should be stronger, I'm looking at their FFP and wondering. They made a £4.5m loss in the 6 months to December 31st 2023 and that was despite and including the Bellingham cash.

Stoke have perhaps used a fair chunk of headroom.

There is a lot of uncertainty, basket case no but I can see cutbacks or retrenchment needed at some clubs. The League ould be in a 70% of wages and amortisation to Turnover position, then again it might not be.

Hull it is suggested may have to retrench if not promoted, see also Norwich, Watford, West Brom to varying levels.

I can't see us flourishing under the current set up next season in any case no.

Re Birmingham.  Answer Tony Mowbray.

[Mr Popodopolous]

5 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

Re Birmingham.  Answer Tony Mowbray.

Well this is true but I am watching their FFP position with interest. They don't seem to have so far been dealt with in the same tough manner we seems to be..£48-50m losses in 2 seasons prior to this, clearly a fully healthy Mowbray should improve them yes but wondering about off-pitch etc.

Anyway either way we won't be seriously troubling even the top 10 under this setup IMO. Irrespective of other clubs.

Edited March 15 by Mr Popodopolous

[Sir Geoff]

1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Well this is true but I am watching their FFP position with interest. They don't seem to have so far been dealt with in the same tough manner we seems to be..£48-50m losses in 2 seasons prior to this, clearly a fully healthy Mowbray should improve them yes but wondering about off-pitch etc.

Surely the sell on for Bellingham will get them over the line.

[Mr Popodopolous]

5 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

Surely the sell on for Bellingham will get them over the line.

That's my working assumption too but the fact there is a questionable possible RPT and that they seemed to lose £4.5m even with that sell-on makes me wonder a bit.

Anyway when they drop this season it won't matter.

It would be quite nice, it feels like their turn.

Edited March 15 by Mr Popodopolous

[mozo]

11 hours ago, exAtyeoMax said:

Is it different for a coach like LM then? Can they get by on pennies? I don’t really understand. Surely a better manager can succeed with less?

Pre-season, when it became clear that we weren't spending much of the Scott money, I predicted we would finish mid table. Nige looked like he was going to get us mid-table, and now Manning too. Both managers struggled to get us to be clinical in the final third and it is costing us. When you look at the profile of our forwards, it's hardly surprising. Most of them are young and learning their trade.