Manning speak

[Street red]

1 hour ago, Simon bristol said:

Yes, and look at ashton now,, its sickening but no one can say the impact hes had at ipswich hasnt been huge,,, perhaps that could have been the case here, but our owners arent as clear at what they want as theirs?

Exactly so with the Lansdowns in charge this club won't get to the premier league it's just a badly run set up.

[redsquirrel]

1 hour ago, Simon bristol said:

Yes, and look at ashton now,, its sickening but no one can say the impact hes had at ipswich hasnt been huge,,, perhaps that could have been the case here, or our owners arent as clear at what they want as theirs?

exactly,  perhaps ipswich value success more than profit. we wont ever know and probs best if we wait until the next ma discussion. apologies for bringing him up in the first place 

[Monkeh]

16 hours ago, Jerseybean said:

Having suffered years of failing to understand lots of what LJ said I’m now trying to come to terms with Manning speak.

Here’s my best effort at an interpretation / translation of recent LM comments.

LM I’m not on social media, so I genuinely don’t hear it but I’m not stupid, I get the industry, I signed up for it, right?” Manning said. “Unfortunately with football it’s changed where three/four games and it’s where the world is at, short-term and everything straight away.”

= Football is a results based business. Our poor recent results, understandably, are a cause for concern to everybody. I have now presided over 26 games as Head Coach of Bristol City and everybody including the fans rightly expect that our results and performances should have been better and there should be more evidence of progress.

LM "For me, of course I want to win. It hurts me. I don’t want to go home having losses but I don’t see the point of wasting energy getting down about it. I’ve had to scrap, I’ve had to fight, I’ve had to graft to get where I’m at and they’re the behaviours: treat people properly, that doesn’t change, come in, drive a standard every day, deliver the work we deliver.”

= Umm….I don’t like losing and whatever happens I will keep doing the same things, I believe it’s important to treat people properly. Genuinely hard to know what ‘they’re the behaviours’ ‘drive a standard every day’ and ‘deliver the work we deliver’ actually mean.

LM “I’m fortunate in that I’ve got a lot of good people around me, the staff have been great: Hoggy’s been terrific, Krausey, Brian, Pat, Ciss (Khalifa Cisse) - there are loads of good people who see the good work that’s happening every day and that’s the only way that you change it.”

= I work with good staff, things change when you constantly and consistently do good work.

LM “Am I emotionally fully all in? You only have to ask the people around here with the way we work and the hours we put in. My energy has to go into the players, they’re the most important people.”

= I can’t answer that question, please ask others. If it’s about hard work and long hours then we are OK.

The club are trying to quell discontent by asking the local media to run puff pieces, and it isn't working

What the club actually need to do is sit down with the fans let them air their grievances and not dismiss us out of hand,

The situation is solely the clubs making and all this bullshit is just driving a bigger and bigger wedge,

That crowd reaction and turnout on Sunday is in real danger of becoming the norm if they aren't careful and stop this slide soon,

But they won't because of the ego's involved, I've seen it outside of football in business, it happens all the time, double down on a failing strategy because the peasants are wrong, and then the business dies

[Davefevs]

34 minutes ago, mozo said:

No but I put in another thread that I see midfielders showing to receive the ball but defenders not being "brave" enough to play the ball. I think it's a player problem.

As you know, there's nothing wrong with going back to then go forwards, but we're struggling with that atm

Maybe because the receiving positions / patterns are so obvious that the opposition is in place / read it, and are ready to pounce.

Generally - I don’t see players hiding (I did see TGH once do that last week, but that’s it), and I think Dickie and Vyner are pretty brave in their distribution, so I’m not convinced it’s bravery (lack of) per se.

 

[steviestevieneville]

6 hours ago, Simon bristol said:

Another thread about how terrible everything is, ideally the season would just end now so this frenzy of anger can just simmer down,, hopefully we can release a few, get the new striker and creative midfielder in, have a pre season and come back stronger next time.

You do realise you don’t have to read it don’t you ? 

[Mr Popodopolous]

5 hours ago, redsquirrel said:

that feeling is what i like most about going to footy, getting excited enough to start shouting or singing even.

I'd say so yeah, chanting, shouting, singing- we need more of it, more reasons to do so as well.

[mozo]

1 hour ago, Numero Uno said:

It gets frustrating when the ball goes back to O'Leary from twenty five yards inside the opposition half. That should literally happen a HANDFUL of times a season at most when the opposition has pressed the shite out of you but with us it's one or two times PER GAME. If O'Leary was 45 yards from goal like the Southampton keeper that's a bit different but he isn't. That simply cannot be the instructions given and assuming it isn't then the way they are being told to play requires a bit more explanation and coaching.

 

37 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Maybe because the receiving positions / patterns are so obvious that the opposition is in place / read it, and are ready to pounce.

Generally - I don’t see players hiding (I did see TGH once do that last week, but that’s it), and I think Dickie and Vyner are pretty brave in their distribution, so I’m not convinced it’s bravery (lack of) per se.

 

Perhaps, but receiving the ball in tight spaces, and threading difficult balls is the level up compared with current imo. I think this is a pretty common challenge for  Championship teams when faced with an energetic press.

Nige used to talk about being brave with the ball and I think it's an enduring problem. Tanner and Vyner are just very limited [currently] in their vision and confidence passing the ball imo. Hence they hesitate and go back. They are great at defending though.

[redsquirrel]

2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I'd say so yeah, chanting, shouting, singing- we need more of it, more reasons to do so as well.

our boy goes down to exeter a few times each season, just for the fun

[Baldyman]

So much said about NP , shouldn’t have been sacked , replaced with a novice because he couldn’t work with the board etc but seemingly very little about what’s POTENTIALLY behind all that’s gone on . The evidence to me seems to point to some pretty horrible financial accounts next time and beyond once again .  
 

The truth could be that we simply couldn’t afford Nige any longer so were never going to offer him a new contract on that basis . Loaning out Andi ( one of our likely biggest earners)to Championship rivals when we were so short of firepower seemed nuts but maybe WBA are paying his wages fully  whilst on loan . Loaning Max Bird and Josh Stokes straight back may also have been an economic decision to help us stay within FFP for the present year . Much has been rumoured about Matt James not being injured but that if he plays again it will trigger a contract extension ? Now we have the 10% price hike in season tickets . Not saying any of the above is fact but to me it points in that direction and if so , the board had little choice in making the unpopular decisions they did ? 

[Numero Uno]

5 minutes ago, mozo said:

 

Perhaps, but receiving the ball in tight spaces, and threading difficult balls is the level up compared with current imo. I think this is a pretty common challenge for  Championship teams when faced with an energetic press.

Nige used to talk about being brave with the ball and I think it's an enduring problem. Tanner and Vyner are just very limited [currently] in their vision and confidence passing the ball imo. Hence they hesitate and go back. They are great at defending though.

Movement is the key. If players have options they can pass the ball without it needing to be eye of a needle stuff requiring great vision (if players can’t see certain passes you can’t really coach that). It’s a very easy thing to do to stay “marked” when you don’t fancy showing for the ball.

[Numero Uno]

2 minutes ago, Baldyman said:

So much said about NP , shouldn’t have been sacked , replaced with a novice because he couldn’t work with the board etc but seemingly very little about what’s POTENTIALLY behind all that’s gone on . The evidence to me seems to point to some pretty horrible financial accounts next time and beyond once again .  
 

The truth could be that we simply couldn’t afford Nige any longer so were never going to offer him a new contract on that basis . Loaning out Andi ( one of our likely biggest earners)to Championship rivals when we were so short of firepower seemed nuts but maybe WBA are paying his wages fully  whilst on loan . Loaning Max Bird and Josh Stokes straight back may also have been an economic decision to help us stay within FFP for the present year . Much has been rumoured about Matt James not being injured but that if he plays again it will trigger a contract extension ? Now we have the 10% price hike in season tickets . Not saying any of the above is fact but to me it points in that direction and if so , the board had little choice in making the unpopular decisions they did ? 

If the accounts are horrible after selling £35m of talent in the last 14 months then we really are doing something wrong.

[EstoniaTallinnRed]

2 hours ago, Jimbo76 said:

I'm genuinely starting to think that the majority of posters on here would rather we play badly so they can carry on their obsession with criticising Manning rather than he actually turns things around.

It's getting ridiculous. Yes, his press conferences are a bit monotone. So what, I couldn't care less. 

It all seems to get so personal. He's clearly passionate, hard working and hungry for success.

The contents of this forum will filter through to him and the team, directly or indirectly. What do you think this constant negativity will achieve, other than drag down morale within the team?

If Manning does get success, which I appreciate most have already dismissed, do you think he'll be sticking around for long after this unjustified campaign of personal abuse?

Wish there was a happy clapper forum in existence. Potentially misjudged optimism seems preferable to this obsession with negativity and abuse.

He must have known having to follow Pearson would bring challenges but I bet he never thought it would still be going on.

Perhaps the boring style of play that the players don't look happy with and the losses have something to do with it, don't you think?

[Mr Popodopolous]

11 minutes ago, redsquirrel said:

our boy goes down to exeter a few times each season, just for the fun

They have a major standing terrace at one end don't they. Big Bank or something.

Old boss of mine was an Exeter fan, him and a group of us were gonna go, before Covid hit and I say old boss many from the company went their separate ways thereafter.

[mozo]

15 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Movement is the key. If players have options they can pass the ball without it needing to be eye of a needle stuff requiring great vision (if players can’t see certain passes you can’t really coach that). It’s a very easy thing to do to stay “marked” when you don’t fancy showing for the ball.

My hypothesis is that in the games that we did well in (I won't say the S-word ), we were better at showing for the ball, finding players whether in space or tight, one touch play and forward passing in all thirds of the pitch. When a few of those areas drop off, we look negative and ponderous, and fans react accordingly. 

Now, some people think I'm giving too much benefit of the doubt to the gaffer, which might or might not be the case 

[fisherrich]

4 hours ago, BS3 Ark at Ee said:

They used Cotts to get them promoted then the second he questioned the board he was gone(when they were interfering in transfer negotiations) and Lee Johnson a championship novice coach brought in. Pearson was brought in to sort out our financial mess and use the Academy players on a limited budget. Once he sorted out the mess and started to question the people above him he was suddenly sacked and another novice championship coach brought in! 

The Lansdowns just don’t like being challenged.

4 hours ago, BS3 Ark at Ee said:

They used Cotts to get them promoted then the second he questioned the board he was gone(when they were interfering in transfer negotiations) and Lee Johnson a championship novice coach brought in. Pearson was brought in to sort out our financial mess and use the Academy players on a limited budget. Once he sorted out the mess and started to question the people above him he was suddenly sacked and another novice championship coach brought in! 

The Lansdowns just don’t like being challenged.

[Shelton’s Love Gravy]

4 hours ago, BS3 Ark at Ee said:

They used Cotts to get them promoted then the second he questioned the board he was gone(when they were interfering in transfer negotiations) and Lee Johnson a championship novice coach brought in. Pearson was brought in to sort out our financial mess and use the Academy players on a limited budget. Once he sorted out the mess and started to question the people above him he was suddenly sacked and another novice championship coach brought in! 

This! 

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

14 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

If the accounts are horrible after selling £35m of talent in the last 14 months then we really are doing something wrong.

Most deals of that size are not all up-front. There are also add ons which are often dependent on other factors.

If BCFC are doing something wrong then they are in good company with at least another 70 clubs who also fail to make a profit and continue to make a thumping loss. 

It's ironic that you say we're doing something wrong having taken on two teenagers and sold them a  few years later for £35,000,000. I think that's doing something very right.

[Davefevs]

6 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

Most deals of that size are not all up-front. There are also add ons which are often dependent on other factors.

If BCFC are doing something wrong then they are in good company with at least another 70 clubs who also fail to make a profit and continue to make a thumping loss. 

It's ironic that you say we're doing something wrong having taken on two teenagers and sold them a  few years later for £35,000,000. I think that's doing something very right.

Actually, Semenyo’s £9m transfer was in the 22-23 accounts recently announced.  All of it.

Scott’s £20m will be in 23-24 accounts when they are announced, and already alluded to go in the 22-23 accounts.  All of it

Payment terms are irrelevant for Profit and Loss (and therefore FFP)…they affect Cashflow.

Add-ons will be reflected into the year’s accounts in which they occur.

If Alex Scott has a £1m add-on for 20 apps and he hits 20 apps this year they will be in this year’s accounts.  If it happens next year, it will be in next year’s accounts.

So 23-24’s accounts should not be horrible!

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

5 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Actually, Semenyo’s £9m transfer was in the 22-23 accounts recently announced.  All of it.

Scott’s £20m will be in 23-24 accounts when they are announced, and already alluded to go in the 22-23 accounts.  All of it

Payment terms are irrelevant for Profit and Loss (and therefore FFP)…they affect Cashflow.

Add-ons will be reflected into the year’s accounts in which they occur.

If Alex Scott has a £1m add-on for 20 apps and he hits 20 apps this year they will be in this year’s accounts.  If it happens next year, it will be in next year’s accounts.

So 23-24’s accounts should not be horrible!

Great news then- as I said, I think we're doing more right than wrong in respect of the financial side of the club thanks to the Lansdowns.

[Davefevs]

8 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

Great news then- as I said, I think we're doing more right than wrong in respect of the financial side of the club thanks to the Lansdowns.

No, you’re giving credit to completely the wrong people. 

[ExiledAjax]

8 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

No, you’re giving credit to completely the wrong people. 

But...but Steve said he did the Scott sale

[Mr Popodopolous]

Gould and NP set us very much on the right road. Some stability plus Scott fee continued under Alexander.

Those first two however were there during the real risky period. Mark Ashton, Lee Johnson, clueless Jon Lansdown ran us aground- badly.

Steve Lansdown as the Ultimate Owner, the Adult in the room, an Accountant by trade FFS where was the oversight, the Governance.

Edited March 16 by Mr Popodopolous

[Numero Uno]

46 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

Most deals of that size are not all up-front. There are also add ons which are often dependent on other factors.

If BCFC are doing something wrong then they are in good company with at least another 70 clubs who also fail to make a profit and continue to make a thumping loss. 

It's ironic that you say we're doing something wrong having taken on two teenagers and sold them a  few years later for £35,000,000. I think that's doing something very right.

Regardless of when you get the money doesn’t it show up in that years accounts so this year the £25m or whatever it was is included? On that basis our next accounts shouldn’t be “horrible”.

I agree that producing that value of talent is doing something right. But if you do that and lose tens of millions per year subsequently that can’t be running the club right.

[Davefevs]

10 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Regardless of when you get the money doesn’t it show up in that years accounts so this year the £25m or whatever it was is included? On that basis our next accounts shouldn’t be “horrible”.

I agree that producing that value of talent is doing something right. But if you do that and lose tens of millions per year subsequently that can’t be running the club right.

Correct, I responded above.

[Jimbo76]

4 hours ago, Davefevs said:

No, Jimbo, his interviews are just a reflection / a sideshow in many ways of what we are seeing on the pitch.  And that is why he is getting critiqued.

You’re mistaking being passionate, hard working and hungry for success for competence.  Some of us think passion, hard-work and hunger isn’t enough to be a success here, assuming he even does have those three capabilities.

By all means be optimistic, but don’t come out with crap like “we want City to play badly”.  That’s just a “I’ve not got an argument here” stuff.

 

 

Ok. My first statement is obviously exaggeration and just refective of frustration. 

My point is, by all means, criticise the play, results, tactics whatever....it's all there to be attacked and I can't make a great defence of it. I hope (very optimistically) that he needs time to build his own team and that the results and, as importantly, the entertainment follow.

This whole thread seemed like a rather desperate attempt to keep kicking him, in an unnecessarily abusive way, over something (lack of charisma) that I couldn't care less about.

I echo one of the previous posts in that all of this criticism seems to relate to 4 games.

I'm ready to join the calls for him to be replaced when he's had a sustained bad run but until then I'm backing him and hoping it comes good.

Edited March 16 by Jimbo76

[Davefevs]

Just now, Jimbo76 said:

I echo one of the previous posts in that all of this criticism seems to relate to 4 games.

My view is based on the conglomeration of 26 matches.

If you think the view is over 4 games, you might argue your optimism and others is based on an similarly small amount of games too.

I’m glad you’re backing him.

I’d sack him now, but I still want him to succeed too.  That’s the best for Bristol City, which is who I’m a fan of.

[Superjack]

4 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Can be both!

Nah, brought in to do a proper, grown-up CEO job, increase commercial opportunities, etc, only to find the owner’s son (playing at being Chairman) does what he wants, doesn’t follow due process, undermines the CEO by doing shit commercial deals, etc.  Calls that out to owner, told to leave.  I’m sure his support of Nige didn’t help!

Nige played along for a while, going with the “budget bollox” storyline for a while. Then his ally in the hierarchy got removed (Alexander) in September.  They called Nige in on the Sunday after the Leeds defeat (Oct 7th) and “asked” him to walk.  You may recall rumours of an emergency board meeting circulating on that Sunday.  Nige said “if you want to sack me, I’m not dressing it up as mutual decision, you will have to say you’ve sacked me”.  Surprised by Nige they bottled it, but Nige knew he was on borrowed time, he knew his staff were on borrowed time too.

Cue Nige getting more pointed in press conferences, e.g. why do you keep asking me, go and find someone else to get your answers from.

I do agree that most of this will have come from JL / SL not being “man-enough” to take criticism, but they will undoubtedly have sought Tins “advice” about how they could package up their execution of his eventual sacking (and who they’d look to replace him with).  He most certainly didn’t defend Nige, or else he wouldn’t be here now.

So they let the international break run and waited for a defeat to hide behind.

Shit, the old bastard beat Coventry, can’t sack him after a win.

Ah that’s better, defeat to Ipswich, but can’t sack him this close to a Derby with Cardiff.

I recall talking to @headhunter after this game and he asked whether Nige would make it to Xmas, I replied I didn’t think he’d make it past the weekend!

Ah, perfect, lose to Cardiff, now’s the time, players close to coming back from injury, Wednesday and QPR coming up, new boy will get an easy start.

Sacked in the morning, you’re getting sacked in the morning - and so he was.  Euell and Rennie with him, Fleming to hold the fort as they couldn’t get new boy in quickly enough.  

Cue a plethora of very poor interviews summing up their ineptitude and pettiness.  All complicit.

The comment from Jon about players and “deconditioned” is one of the shittiest things I’ve ever heard in football, and I’m not exaggerating.  And people on here wonder why he gets stick.

I’ve no idea if Manning was first choice.  There were rumours of both Mousinho and Eustace, so maybe they were asked but turned it down?  But they took a week to appoint Manning, when they already had their plan in place after Leeds, so my gut feel (and that’s all it is) was that they got turned down!

Nothing about being sacked was a relief to Nigel, he wanted to stay at the club and deliver what he set out to do, and was doing.  He, along with the fanbase, thought he was really on the right tracks.

 

[Superjack]

3 hours ago, Redrascal2 said:

Where and when has he shown passion. He seems to completely lack any and during games looks lost on the sidelines. As to worrying about whether, he would not want to stay here if successful, that made me laugh. How you can watch how we play and where the team is now and worry about such things is beyond me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

He doesn't like passion. Or emotion.

 

They don't compute.

[westred1]

He’s the face of our season ticket campaign. Manning is our king; we always believe!  

[phantom]

18 hours ago, Graham76 said:

 

Empty seats all over the South Stand back then aswell