All my dreams come true… (Presser) - Merged

[Natchfever]

8 minutes ago, RED4LIFE said:

Strong language? Not in my opinion and trying to be helpful wasn't the point of my post.

The point I wa trying, unsuccessfully as is happens, to make was your pre-season expectations mean nothing to anybody at the club. They are based only on your opinion or hopes for how things should pan out. They are literally pointless without all the facts to hand. 

You are more than welcome to have any opinion you want but it means nothing. That isn't a slur on you personally either as everyone can have their own opinions. Not everyone can have their own facts though and you are basing your points on your thoughts alone with no basis around them. Essentially a straw man's argument. 

What were the stated pre season expectations of the club, can anyone recall?

I remember junior saying last year that the squad should be doing better.

Presumably statements emanating from bcfc top brass have enough gravitas to in turn influence the expectations of mere fans?

I do recall senior saying what the club earned it could spend hmm....

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, Natchfever said:

What were the stated pre season expectations of the club, can anyone recall?

I remember junior saying last year that the squad should be doing better.

Presumably statements emanating from bcfc top brass have enough gravitas to in turn influence the expectations of mere fans?

I do recall senior saying what the club earned it could spend hmm....

I think they were mute on the subject, weren’t they?

They'd abdicated comms to Nige.

Edited April 4 by Davefevs

[ExiledAjax]

3 minutes ago, Natchfever said:

What were the stated pre season expectations of the club, can anyone recall?

I remember junior saying last year that the squad should be doing better.

Presumably statements emanating from bcfc top brass have enough gravitas to in turn influence the expectations of mere fans?

I do recall senior saying what the club earned it could spend hmm....

Not sure about pre-season, but based on what Tinnion said on the radio a few weeks back the target is 71 points, or 1.54 points per game.

Pearson was on 1.29ppg, and so on course for 64 points.

[RED4LIFE]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

Because that was the reason for changing.  It was expected LM would give us something akin to “hitting the ground running”, because he was the difference maker.
 

Had Nige had 2 or 3 more points, they’d wouldn’t have sacked him, they’d have had to tolerate him.

I respect your opinion more than most on here mate, but I would be astonished if they honestly thought that a young, fairly inexperienced manager would immediately make a huge difference to our promotion chances. That's like catching lightning in a bottle and history tells us it rarely happens.

With regards to the Pearson sacking, if he would've had 2 or 3 more points it would've only prolonged the inevitable. Besides, we had so many injuries we could barely field a decent starting 11 and that should've surely factored into their thinking but it seems they chose to ignore it.

[RED4LIFE]

6 minutes ago, Natchfever said:

What were the stated pre season expectations of the club, can anyone recall?

I remember junior saying last year that the squad should be doing better.

Presumably statements emanating from bcfc top brass have enough gravitas to in turn influence the expectations of mere fans?

I do recall senior saying what the club earned it could spend hmm....

Yeah, can't really remember myself, but then I do take all their ramblings with a pinch of salt. 

Let's face it, we sold our best creative player and bought McCrorie, a right back and they expected miracles.

[johnbytheriver]

Used the phrase "in terms of" close to twenty times,only two "behaviours" though.

[Natchfever]

4 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Not sure about pre-season, but based on what Tinnion said on the radio a few weeks back the target is 71 points, or 1.54 points per game.

Pearson was on 1.29ppg, and so on course for 64 points.

So...win all our remaining games to reach el supremo's target?

Blimey.

Manning will do very well to hit Pearsons projected 64 points imo.

[Natchfever]

2 minutes ago, RED4LIFE said:

Yeah, can't really remember myself, but then I do take all their ramblings with a pinch of salt. 

Let's face it, we sold our best creative player and bought McCrorie, a right back and they expected miracles.

Heres the problem mate, we shouldn't take their statements with a pinch of salt.

Zero confidence, zero trust in the club and I think im not alone in that view.

[ExiledAjax]

Just now, Natchfever said:

So...win all our remaining games to reach el supremo's target?

Blimey.

Manning will do very well to hit Pearsons projected 64 points imo.

Correct.

I would add that I think 71 is a pretty realistic target for us. In most seasons it would see you finish something between 5th and 8th. 

But yeh from where we are right now I'm expecting a final total of maybe 62. 

[Silvio Dante]

Just now, RED4LIFE said:

Yeah, can't really remember myself, but then I do take all their ramblings with a pinch of salt. 

Let's face it, we sold our best creative player and bought McCrorie, a right back and they expected miracles.

And at the risk of going over old ground, this is why they probably won’t ever be forgiven. I’ve used the phrase “wilful sabotage” a few times and it was - Nige had his legs cut off in the summer recruitment.

Even if he’d been able to replace Scott with who we eventually did (short term) with Twine, then we wouldn’t be miles off. A side of O’Leary-Tanner-Vyner-Dickie-Pring-James-Knight-Sykes-Bell-Twine-Conway may not be top six but it would be competitive top ten. The lack of the playmaker killed us. 
 

Liam coming in, irrespective of what the board said, was never going to be able to improve on how Nige was doing as he didn’t have the squad (note - not his players but the squad). It was a shit comms.

What I don’t think the board expected was the regression we’ve seen from Liam misusing the resources he had - certainly up until Easter, which has been alarming. And that’s where the doubts lay, not in not getting top six.

But, make no mistake. Had they replaced Scott, even ponying up 1/5 of the fee, we’d likely be higher up the table.

But that would also have meant Nige still being in a job. And getting rid of him was more important than the clubs success this season.

Bottom Line.

[exAtyeoMax]

1 minute ago, Silvio Dante said:

And at the risk of going over old ground, this is why they probably won’t ever be forgiven. I’ve used the phrase “wilful sabotage” a few times and it was - Nige had his legs cut off in the summer recruitment.

Even if he’d been able to replace Scott with who we eventually did (short term) with Twine, then we wouldn’t be miles off. A side of O’Leary-Tanner-Vyner-Dickie-Pring-James-Knight-Sykes-Bell-Twine-Conway may not be top six but it would be competitive top ten. The lack of the playmaker killed us. 
 

Liam coming in, irrespective of what the board said, was never going to be able to improve on how Nige was doing as he didn’t have the squad (note - not his players but the squad). It was a shit comms.

What I don’t think the board expected was the regression we’ve seen from Liam misusing the resources he had - certainly up until Easter, which has been alarming. And that’s where the doubts lay, not in not getting top six.

But, make no mistake. Had they replaced Scott, even ponying up 1/5 of the fee, we’d likely be higher up the table.

But that would also have meant Nige still being in a job. And getting rid of him was more important than the clubs success this season.

Bottom Line.

Why was it so important?

[Silvio Dante]

Just now, exAtyeoMax said:

Why was it so important?

You’d have to ask them. But the ham fisted rationale for the dismissal and timing thereof shows this wasn’t a footballing decision.

My guess, as many people’s has been, is that they didn’t like that Nige was more popular than them and also would stand up to them (ironically I also think Liam will).

But we are where we are. And their communications at the time of the sacking both in terms of reason for dismissal and expectation of new man did everyone no favours.

[exAtyeoMax]

2 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

You’d have to ask them. But the ham fisted rationale for the dismissal and timing thereof shows this wasn’t a footballing decision.

My guess, as many people’s has been, is that they didn’t like that Nige was more popular than them and also would stand up to them (ironically I also think Liam will).

But we are where we are. And their communications at the time of the sacking both in terms of reason for dismissal and expectation of new man did everyone no favours.

#FootballRoyalty

[Robbored]

30 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

Intrinsic, extrinsic, and germane.

We do it at work too, and I work in tech. It's everywhere these days - It's important to understand and people who dismiss it and similar are foolish imo. City will get left behind if they don't pay attention to it.

The concepts have been known for decades, centuries even. They're just put into more understandable language now so the players will be able to understand and help themselves as much as anything.

It was an American Dr Aaron Beck who developed CBT in the 1950/60s to its current level and usage. There’s an interesting YouTube ‘The historical roots of CBT’ if anyone’s interested.

[Sir Geoff]

33 minutes ago, mozo said:

I think we should be prepared for a tough game and not expect to run wings round them!

Obvs I disagree with lots of that, but you talk about improvement being the target, well that's still in our gift this season. I don't think we can catch up with 10th but if we did, that's a decent season.

How is finishing 10th a decent season ?

That was surely the bare minimum requirement.

[Sir Geoff]

26 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Not sure about pre-season, but based on what Tinnion said on the radio a few weeks back the target is 71 points, or 1.54 points per game.

Pearson was on 1.29ppg, and so on course for 64 points.

Pretty sure Mr Pops has indicated 1.4 ppg, including Curtis H win v Sheff Wed.

[RED4LIFE]

11 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

And at the risk of going over old ground, this is why they probably won’t ever be forgiven. I’ve used the phrase “wilful sabotage” a few times and it was - Nige had his legs cut off in the summer recruitment.

Even if he’d been able to replace Scott with who we eventually did (short term) with Twine, then we wouldn’t be miles off. A side of O’Leary-Tanner-Vyner-Dickie-Pring-James-Knight-Sykes-Bell-Twine-Conway may not be top six but it would be competitive top ten. The lack of the playmaker killed us. 
 

Liam coming in, irrespective of what the board said, was never going to be able to improve on how Nige was doing as he didn’t have the squad (note - not his players but the squad). It was a shit comms.

What I don’t think the board expected was the regression we’ve seen from Liam misusing the resources he had - certainly up until Easter, which has been alarming. And that’s where the doubts lay, not in not getting top six.

But, make no mistake. Had they replaced Scott, even ponying up 1/5 of the fee, we’d likely be higher up the table.

But that would also have meant Nige still being in a job. And getting rid of him was more important than the clubs success this season.

Bottom Line.

Yep, that's exactly it in a nutshell.

The board took the fans for mugs and because of that I can't bring myself to blame Manning for what's happened. Could he have done better? Undoubtedly, but he was dealt a pretty poor hand to start with.

[Natchfever]

16 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Correct.

I would add that I think 71 is a pretty realistic target for us. In most seasons it would see you finish something between 5th and 8th. 

But yeh from where we are right now I'm expecting a final total of maybe 62. 

So possibly 9 points off the target set by his boss.....

Hope someone pins the top brass down pre season on expectations and how they are going to reach them, as I think some SC sales may depend on that.

[Sir Geoff]

37 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Because that was the reason for changing.  It was expected LM would give us something akin to “hitting the ground running”, because he was the difference maker.
 

Had Nige had 2 or 3 more points, they’d wouldn’t have sacked him, they’d have had to tolerate him.

2-0 up home to Stoke and losing 3-2 really did for him imo.

[Davefevs]

25 minutes ago, RED4LIFE said:

I respect your opinion more than most on here mate, but I would be astonished if they honestly thought that a young, fairly inexperienced manager would immediately make a huge difference to our promotion chances. That's like catching lightning in a bottle and history tells us it rarely happens.

With regards to the Pearson sacking, if he would've had 2 or 3 more points it would've only prolonged the inevitable. Besides, we had so many injuries we could barely field a decent starting 11 and that should've surely factored into their thinking but it seems they chose to ignore it.

Nah, no, you probably didn’t see another post.  By “hitting the ground running”, I didn’t mean playoffs (only the buffoons genuinely thought that), I meant “continue to progress us”.  Sorry if that wasn’t clear.

As it stands we have gone a bit backwards.  The two wins make it look a bit more healthy, thankfully .

Prolonging the inevitable might’ve meant we got on a roll?

[Mr Popodopolous]

8 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

Pretty sure Mr Pops has indicated 1.4 ppg, including Curtis H win v Sheff Wed.

Yep Sir Geoff.

NP alone 18/14, extrapolate yo 59-60.

NP and CF, 1.4 PPG,.40% Win Ratio. 63-64, maybe with a bit of luck 65

Edited April 4 by Mr Popodopolous

[ExiledAjax]

5 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Yep Sir Geoff.

NP alone 18/14, extrapolate yo 59-60.

NP and CF, 1.4 PPG,.40% Win Ratio. 63-64, maybe with a bit of luck 65

Ah the 64 on Pearson's website includes Fleming's 3 points. Intriguing.

And should Manning get us to 60 then he technically exceeds Pearson's solo projection. Intriguing.

[RED4LIFE]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Nah, no, you probably didn’t see another post.  By “hitting the ground running”, I didn’t mean playoffs (only the buffoons genuinely thought that), I meant “continue to progress us”.  Sorry if that wasn’t clear.

As it stands we have gone a bit backwards.  The two wins make it look a bit more healthy, thankfully .

Prolonging the inevitable might’ve meant we got on a roll?

No need to apologise Dave, I know what you meant.

The point i was trying to make (possibly not well) was after a complete reversal of playing styles from counter attacking to possession based with the exact same players and expecting it to go smoothly isn't realistic in my opinion. The fact that highly paid professionals in the upper management used this as an excuse to bring in Manning is bordering on the ludicrous. To then spout the bollocks of top 6 as a minimum to the fans isn't just stupid, it's taking the piss.

The vast majority of us aren't stupid. We've been through this mill countless times over the years but for the board to expect us to lap up their excuses like the good customers they think we are they can **** right off.

[Mr Popodopolous]

16 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Ah the 64 on Pearson's website includes Fleming's 3 points. Intriguing.

And should Manning get us to 60 then he technically exceeds Pearson's solo projection. Intriguing.

Another way to messure it is that we were 3 points off from the equivalent fixtures under NP to end of October from the closest equivalent vs 5. Possibly even 5.

I forget what it was 14 games vs 14 games verbatim.

Edited April 4 by Mr Popodopolous

[redsquirrel]

6 minutes ago, RED4LIFE said:

No need to apologise Dave, I know what you meant.

The point i was trying to make (possibly not well) was after a complete reversal of playing styles from counter attacking to possession based with the exact same players and expecting it to go smoothly isn't realistic in my opinion. The fact that highly paid professionals in the upper management used this as an excuse to bring in Manning is bordering on the ludicrous. To then spout the bollocks of top 6 as a minimum to the fans isn't just stupid, it's taking the piss.

The vast majority of us aren't stupid. We've been through this mill countless times over the years but for the board to expect us to lap up their excuses like the good customers they think we are they can **** right off.

they love it tho dont they, not that long ago,we were going to be in europe by now, we havent even got to dover yet

[ExiledAjax]

7 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Another way to messure it is tjst we were 3 points off from the equivalent fixtures under NP to end of October from the closest equivalent vs 5. Possibly even 5.

I forget what it was 14 games vs 14 games verbatim.

I don't understand.

[transfer reader]

2 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Im sorry that my agenda is wanting the best for Bristol City and not believing that these guys are the best for us. 

Please forgive me for having that opinion. 

You lost this arguement the moment you suggested I should go and do something else.

You wanted Frank ******* Lampard in.

But now you want the best for Bristol City?

 

Reconcile those!

[Mr Popodopolous]

3 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

I don't understand.

Preston Home -2

Millwall Away +2

Etc.

Two promoted sides at Home either-1 or +1.

Leeds and Leicester away.. well we lost at Burnley, Sheffield United and Luton.

Or how 18 points from 14 compared year on year.

Edited April 4 by Mr Popodopolous

[mozo]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Because that was the reason for changing.  It was expected LM would give us something akin to “hitting the ground running”, because he was the difference maker.
 

Had Nige had 2 or 3 more points, they’d wouldn’t have sacked him, they’d have had to tolerate him.

That's living in fantasy fairyland Dave. You're too smart for that. 

There was absolutely no reason for any of us to expect anything other than a hard-working, studious, ambitious young coach to have a go at implementing his philosophy. We had no right to expect top 6 or even top 10. We have to live in the real world. 

49 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

And at the risk of going over old ground, this is why they probably won’t ever be forgiven. I’ve used the phrase “wilful sabotage” a few times and it was - Nige had his legs cut off in the summer recruitment.

Even if he’d been able to replace Scott with who we eventually did (short term) with Twine, then we wouldn’t be miles off. A side of O’Leary-Tanner-Vyner-Dickie-Pring-James-Knight-Sykes-Bell-Twine-Conway may not be top six but it would be competitive top ten. The lack of the playmaker killed us. 
 

Liam coming in, irrespective of what the board said, was never going to be able to improve on how Nige was doing as he didn’t have the squad (note - not his players but the squad). It was a shit comms.

What I don’t think the board expected was the regression we’ve seen from Liam misusing the resources he had - certainly up until Easter, which has been alarming. And that’s where the doubts lay, not in not getting top six.

But, make no mistake. Had they replaced Scott, even ponying up 1/5 of the fee, we’d likely be higher up the table.

But that would also have meant Nige still being in a job. And getting rid of him was more important than the clubs success this season.

Bottom Line.

Totally agree with this!

[ExiledAjax]

4 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Preston Home -2

Millwall Away +2

Etc.

Two promoted sides at Home either-1 or +1.

Leeds and Leicester away.. well we lost at Burnley, Sheffield United and Luton.

Or how 18 points from 14 compared year on year.

Oh. Um. But the players and coaches have all changed to one degree or another, and in some cases even the actual clubs have changed. I'm not sure this really works as a method of comparing tbh Pop.

Ultimately I think we'll see that the squad is the squad. And finishes where it finishes. When Pearson was sacked I think I said something like "Barney the dinosaur could manage this squad and it would finish 11th".

Looks like they'll both finish with something around 1.3-1.4 ppg attributed to them.

Bar the drama at the end of October this season has simply been forgettable.